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straight wall rifle cartridge questions

16K views 95 replies 37 participants last post by  NVScouter 
#1 ·
As the title states. What is the hot ticket? Which caliber and why do you say so...? Anyone have an idea as to which will shoot the flattest? I'd like 200 plus yard capibilitys... Good retained energy? Best all around caliber for whitetail deer sized game and the occasional coyote, some nice affordible range shooting ... You know a nice all round gun.
Thanks
Sean
 
#4 · (Edited)
Straight wall as in:

45-70 in the Marlin lever.
450 Hornady
444 Marlin
50 Alaskan

These will do it for you. I think you are wanting a bottleneck cartridge though.

444 is flatter, but I would keep both these to 200 yards max. as they are not flat shooting like any bottleneck cartridge.

Want flatter and farther then step up to 300 wsm .308. 7mm08, 7mm wsm .270, 30-06.
 
#5 ·
X2 - .45-70 govt. I`ve taken 4 elk, clean one shot kills from a 14" barrel Contender pistol out to 250 yards. :smokin: A 405 grain lead bullet at 1500 fps. is a freaking sledge hammer. :D Solid shoulder hits on elk absolutely drop them on their chin. Tried using it on deer with 350 gr. JHP, overkill is an understatement. Went back to my 7mm T/C U for deer.
 
#6 ·
You might want to check out the .450 Marlin. Supposedly, it pushes a 350 gr. bullet out of the muzzle at around 2,000+ fps and more than 3,000 lbft of muzzle energy. That beats the hell out of a .444 Marlin.

I've never fired the .450 Marlin but a friend tells me that it talks to his shoulder a helluva louder than a .444 Marlin.
 
#7 ·
I'd love a necked cartridge, BUT the state of Indiana is way to overpopulated to let a bunch of ******** loose during hunting season with one... Ok, so that leave's us with straight walls....(they are chaning the regulations to allow straight walls next season...) The best of them being the .450? or the .444 and they are 200 yard calibers? I looked at the 45-70 but, I'm trying to get a little more yardage, i have plenty of knock down with a 12 guage 3 " mag sabot load. 2 " high at 50 yards lets me go 4" low at 100 then like 8" at 150 and after that it falls on its face.....
I dont reload and would have to buy ammo so availibility is a must. I'll hit the web after I post this...... Now who chambers a nice bolt action or semi auto in them?
thanks for the help.
Sean
 
#57 ·
Straight walled or Pistol?
Quoted from Indiana's DNR 2008-2009 regs.
http://www.in.gov/dnr/files/fw-huntguide_lowres.pdf

See page 8 said:
Rifles with pistol cartridges that fire a
bullet of .357-inch diameter or larger; have
a minimum case length of 1.16 inches; and
have a maximum case length of 1.625 inches
are legal to use only during the deer firearms
season. Some cartridges legal for deer hunting
include the 357 Magnum, 38-40
Winchester, 41 Magnum, 41 Special,
44 Magnum, 44 Special, 44-40
Winchester, 45 Colt, 454 Casull, 458
SOCOM, 475 Linebaugh, 480 Ruger,
50 Action Express, and 500 S&W
.45-70 isn't on the list.
 
#39 · (Edited)
.45-70 AKA .45 Govt. was-is the cartridge designed fer the military back mid 1800s.
The .45 is the caliber and the 70 is the nominal grains of black powder used. This numbering method for cartridge sizing applies to 99% of all the older cartridges that have the double numbers. Some like the .303 Brit are late BP early smokeless rounds.

To confound things, Sharps took the calibration thing and put the caliber on 1 side and the case length on the other so one finds the actions stamped CAL45 and 2 1/10 on the opposite side which corresponds to .45-70... ;) :D

D.
 
#9 ·
procomp survivor said:
I looked at the 45-70 but, I'm trying to get a little more yardage,
I have shot and hit 12" targets (paper plates) at 400yds with my Rem rolling block 45-70. 400gr lead round nose over black powder. Usually can get 5 shots into 6"
Yeah I have a Pederasoli(sp) peep sight.
You can always get a 45-110 Quigly gun and do some 1200yd shots :D
 
#11 ·
45-70 is a fun round. The brass is pretty thin, so if you are loading with modern powders (shooting out of modern guns), you will not get to many loads out of the brass. Inspect your brass well.

Your experiences may vary depending on the loads and guns you use.
 
#12 ·
Rockcrusher said:
You might want to check out the .450 Marlin. Supposedly, it pushes a 350 gr. bullet out of the muzzle at around 2,000+ fps and more than 3,000 lbft of muzzle energy. That beats the hell out of a .444 Marlin.

I've never fired the .450 Marlin but a friend tells me that it talks to his shoulder a helluva louder than a .444 Marlin.
The .450 marlin is what the .45-70 could be. Most factory .45-70 ammo is loaded under 28,000 CUP in case it's used in older guns. In modern rifles like the 1895, handloads can be pushed upwards of 40,000 CUP. At these velocities, the .45-70 equals .450 Marlin ballistics and exceeds anything a .444 can do. In a mauser action or a Ruger #1, handloads can push upwards of 50,000 CUP, which makes them even hotter.

To add for the original poster, .45-70 has more bullet variety available than most straight wall rifle cartriges and can carry the magic 1000 ft. lbs. of energy out past 500 yds. And ammo is more widely available than the other rounds mentioned. In my opinion, It's a winner and would fit your bill.
 
#14 ·
aloharover said:
You can always get a 45-110 Quigly gun and do some 1200yd shots :D
I was thinking the same thing but that would kind of defeat the purpose of the straight wall cartridges not carrying very far. :laughing:

:confused: Was it a 45-110 or a 45-120? I love that gun. :grinpimp:
 
#16 ·
procomp survivor said:
I looked at the 45-70 but, I'm trying to get a little more yardage,thanks for the help.
Sean
45-70 has plenty of range.
We have a Billy Dixon shoot over in Eastern Oregon where BP Cart are used.
If you think the 45-70 is underpowered,you may want to reconcider.


It was June 27, 1874 at Adobe Walls on the Canadian River in the Texas panhandle. Young Billy Dixon and 27 buffalo hunters were surrounded by more than 500 Kiowa and Comanche warriors. The Kiowa medicine man told the warriors that his medicine made them invisible to the bullets of the white-eyes. When Dixon fired his Sharps sporting rifle and knocked a Kiowa from his horse at 1538 yards (7/8 mile) the Indians departed with haste. The Kiowa medicine man was quirted to death. The shot was later measured by a Government surveyor working in the area. Billy Dixon lived on to be awarded the Medal of Honor while acting as a scout in the Army for Gen. Nelson Miles. Later in life he served as a peace officer in the Texas panhandle, near the place that made him famous.
 
#19 ·
rusty_scout said:
45-70 has plenty of range.
We have a Billy Dixon shoot over in Eastern Oregon where BP Cart are used.
If you think the 45-70 is underpowered,you may want to reconcider.


It was June 27, 1874 at Adobe Walls on the Canadian River in the Texas panhandle. Young Billy Dixon and 27 buffalo hunters were surrounded by more than 500 Kiowa and Comanche warriors. The Kiowa medicine man told the warriors that his medicine made them invisible to the bullets of the white-eyes. When Dixon fired his Sharps sporting rifle and knocked a Kiowa from his horse at 1538 yards (7/8 mile) the Indians departed with haste. The Kiowa medicine man was quirted to death. The shot was later measured by a Government surveyor working in the area. Billy Dixon lived on to be awarded the Medal of Honor while acting as a scout in the Army for Gen. Nelson Miles. Later in life he served as a peace officer in the Texas panhandle, near the place that made him famous.
The gun was a Sharps Big Fifty . . . More than likely a .50-90
 
#20 ·
Rockcrusher said:
The gun was a Sharps Big Fifty . . . More than likely a .50-90
Not to start a pissin contest or anything but I was kinda curious about this and did some diggin. I only looked for .45 and .50 cal stuff cause there's too much data to dig through and I wasn't quite that curious. Seems the only long .45 and .50 cal stuff that was available in 1874 were .45-70 govt(1873), .45-70 Van Choate, and .50-70 musket or govt. There were assloads of various carbine rounds in these calibers but they weren't likely to make this shot. The big Sharps stuff wasn't available till about 1876. The .45-70 was by far the most commonly avaiable big bore of the period due to the avaiability of the rifles and ammo, so this was most likely the round that was used for the shot.
 
#23 ·
the .450 marlin is becomming extinct pretty quick, its hard to get a hold of and when you find it, its expensive. The .45-70 however is the oldest centerfire cartridge still in production. The .22 short is the longest lived rimfire still in production. I doubt you'll be seeing them go away.
 
#31 ·
I did the same digging. If you'll notice I stated .45-70 was the most likely round based on what was commonly available at that time. I couldn't find anything that positively identified the round either. I did find info stating that the big Sharps cartridges didn't come around until after this event.
 
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