Pirate 4x4 banner

NV4500 Rover Adapter

30K views 118 replies 34 participants last post by  Landy_Andy 
#1 · (Edited)
Rather than hijacking another thread I will ask in a new one. I have a GM NV4500 with a dodge bell & I/P shaft mated to a rover LT230 as this was what I had and luckily it was a post 96 box so same as dodge. For me the GM O/P shaft was easier to mod for a rover LT230. There was a thread recently about this where they went dodge O/P shaft and it cost them on behalf of a customer $2000 , fair enough. I personally paid about 1/2 that for mine and can get the spud shaft off the shelf if I need another. Now to my question why? surely it would be easier to bolt it upto a US tcase, an NP205 from a gen 1 dodge would have the correct drop if you wanted to be all dodge or even an atlas or for $2k a lomax on a GM nv4500. Is it a rover thing or people just want permanent 4wd. I keep asking myself the same question but for me in the UK it is a lot more difficult and therefore easier to justify going for the adapter. What are your thoughts or comments.

Gaza
 
#98 ·
So I've been looking at this for my own project. I have a GM 92-95 2WD output tranny (fixed yoke 35 tooth 24/48 spline, 1.5" OD ) and a Dodge 4x4 as a core (for the case to mount the dodge belhousing and the 4x4 output case). I could see no problem with EDM cutting the 1.5" spline into the input gear of the LT230 (as the input counterbore in the LT main gear is 1.5" already) if the depth was limited to just past the existing 10 tooth spline (no through broaching though). Past that point, there is a narrow neck at the PTO end that would get very thin or break (but it's past the end bearing).

Unfortunately, the 2WD GM shaft is not long enough. The spline area in the LT is at a depth of 3.1" to 4.6" from the front of the t-case (and as mentioned, is counterbored at 1.5" up to the splines). The GM shaft extends 7.875" from the tranny main case. Subtract 6.375" for the 4x4 tailhousing and you get 1.5" extension into the t-case. Not enough. Even if a custom tailhousing was made, the tranny seal is at 4.625" from the tranny housing - if this is the mount plane of the t-case, engagement would only be about 1/8" into the splines of the LT230. This is the NON parking brake GM main shaft. I could not find or find info on the 2WD parking brake output shaft to see if it is longer - they seem to be very rare if they exist at all. (or I'm an idiot an missed something obvious)

So I've got a couple dodge 2WD main shafts coming. I may consider EDM cutting the LT main gear to that form if the lengths are good. Again, if depth of cut is limited. But, as Rovehybrids mentioned, what happens to the bearing support surfaces need to be considered. 1.61" OD+ is pushing it.

Next option is as Roverhybrids said - re cut 32 tooth 24/48, 1.375 OD splines on this shaft. I can have those ground, so annealing not required. EDM the female in the LT main gear. I'll test them at this point to see if case hardening is needed.
 
#93 ·
no, but reading all this again is making me feel like punching something out (to much math) :flipoff2:
where is my pipe!
 
#95 ·
I like putting cummins in landrovers,my solution has been in making a one piece input gear/ shaft assembly which gives max shaft diameter, which is only limited by the input gear support bearing diameter no need to machine the dog clutch lug for the pto. Ive wondered about using a wire eroder to cut out the splines leaving the original gear hard but I havent got a machine or anyone to try it for me
 
#99 ·
When I looked into this a while back I had found a supplier (transpartsusa I think) that sold a jobber output shaft from a P-van application. The overall length was listed and was significantly longer than the regular NV4500 shaft. They were cheap, 150 or so. I was not sure of the spline pattern but I would bet it is also a 35 spline pattern.

Good idea on cutting splines to partial depth. That might work really well.
 
#103 ·
When I looked into this a while back I had found a supplier (transpartsusa I think) that sold a jobber output shaft from a P-van application. The overall length was listed and was significantly longer than the regular NV4500 shaft. They were cheap, 150 or so. I was not sure of the spline pattern but I would bet it is also a 35 spline pattern.
Well, I got that P-van shaft from Southwest gear(p/n 25331). It's great - same length as the 2wd Dodge but with the 35 spline GM on the end. Perfect.

Except

it doesn't have the splines or threads for 5th gear. Looks like that variation must be a 4 speed. So back it goes. Looks like I'll be grinding the Dodge's down. On the plus side, it looks like the Dodge's can go down to the GM 35 spline, which is a real nice size going into the LT input gear.

Guess that answers that question

can't figure out how to post pics here, so there'll be a pic over in my thread on D90
 
#105 ·
I have been on the fence about that. I found a place in Michigan that can grind the dodge shafts for about $175 each - figure making a coupler shaft is in that range or more anyway, so wanted to keep the part count down.

been reading about EDM broaching - manufacturer's have been going to it as a more precise way to get a finished spline in an already hardened and ground shaft. The process produces a better-than broached surface, so re-treating not required.

after a closer look - this p-van shaft isn't the GM spline I though it was, but a 32 spline similar or the same you went to on your 4bt adaption. Pity it's not a 5 speed shaft. So it looks like I'll be going down to that 32 spline anyway (as you know, can't get the 1.500" diameter GM spline onto the Dodge shaft)
 
#106 ·
I know you guys in the US can break anvils, but I've seen plenty of worn out LT230 input shafts and gears but never a broken one.Cross drilled gears or the Archimedes screw oil feed revision seemed to address the spline wear issue. Anyone have a photo of a broken input shaft? When comparing input shaft sizes, you do all realize that there is no shear loading on the shaft in the LT230 applicaton, because the input gear is self supporting on its own bearings. It's similar to a full floating axle assembly, the shaft only transmits torque. The LT 230 input shaft has actually potentially more torque capacity than a series transfercase output shaft or a ten spline axle, but is subjected to only engine torque x 1st gear ratio vs engine torque x 1st gear x t/case low range ratio for the series t/case output, or engine torque x 1st gear x transfercase low x diff ratio for an axle shaft.This is an old thread and I can't be arsed reading back through the pages to check if I have previously posted on this subject.
Agrover.
 
#107 ·
Some clarifications - The GM P van shaft does have provisions for a 5th gear but because it is from a 2wd GM application it relies on a collar between the yoke (fixed) and the gear to hold the gear on, and does not have a threaded collar. The Dodge shafts are for slip yokes so they use the collar, even in 2wd design.

The GM 2wd is the best setup for an NV4500 as it gets rid of the locking collar that loosens which allows the gear to rock back and forth. The GM P van shaft could be made to be used but the LT230 input gear would have to be sandwiched on the trans output shaft and a collar added to load the gear, with a nut behind the gear applying preload. I am not thrilled about this design as the transfer case bearings and trans bearings would likely be fighting each other unless you got the length perfect. It could be a case of designing an adapter that is custom tailored to the right length so that it all fits together. This design would solve the 5th gear issues of the NV permanently.

Bill I agree the point is moot until you start upgrading the drivelines to cope with the increased available torque, however, with the 6-1 first of the NV and
4-5-600 ft lbs of torque that can be generated by the 6BT, it's perhaps a good idea to make darn sure that the shafts are as strong as possible. I want to ensure that the weak point is the 1.625" axleshaft I am using, which admittedly downstream of lots of gear reduction, but a broken trans output shaft, now matter how infrequent, is not an option.
 
#111 ·
Oh snap. That one comes with the spud and the bearing. It's the weakest way to do it, but WAY easier than the way I did mine. And the price is good. Very cool.
 
#114 ·
Anyone here on the Defender Source forum? I want to contact nmarkiw. I have tried to joy the site but it will not allow me to...must know I am a toyota guy. lol Any help would be great!
 
#117 ·
Thanks for the help guys...I guess not all Rover guys are like Dave after all! lol I will be running #2 of the lt230 race case soon and although Dave can make a pimp adapter, time is the killer for both of us and thus wanting to try one of Nicholas's and see how it holds up.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top