Wanted something a little bit smaller mah deuce (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=955676) that I can drive further, faster, cheaper, and more comfortably. So I bought a 2002 2WD Safari cargo van. Got four big dogs (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=12611638#post12611638) that I need to haul around, so this is going to serve as my daily-driver for a while. At least until my motorhome is done. Also planning on doing a real basic camper conversion. Trying to keep this one simple: fold-up/down bed on the driver's-side wall, a bit of storage-space, maybe a fresh water tank, deep-cycle battery and small inverter, that sort of thing. But that's it. Down and dirty. Was tempted to build an AWD van, but decided to go with 2WD in the end, hoping to maximize fuel economy. Have plenty of other vehicles to take off-road. Bought this van at auction and something is wrong with the engine, so am pulling it today and have another engine that should be in there by the end of next week. Looking forward to getting it back on the road. Then I'll get to work on the fun stuff.

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/astrosafari_01.jpg

Now that there is the way to unload a rig from a trailer...

Spent most of yesterday and today pulling the engine. Have never worked on a van before. Probably wouldn't have bought this thing if I had! What a pain in the ass.

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/astrosafari_02.jpg

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/astrosafari_03.jpg

My old boss had a few of these that were awd. Huge piles, good luck.

Man, you pulled the engine the hard way! Easiest way is to pull the entire sub frame from under the van, slide it out into the open, then pull the engine. Of coures this requires a 2 post lift or some really tall jack stands.

Yeah, I know. Just wasn't feasible to remove the engine from underneath, given that I'm doing the engine-swap in my driveway. Just wasn't comfortable with how high I would have had to lift the frontend.

Have been spending most of my time working on another project (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1006912), but finished installing the new engine a few weeks ago. Still can't get it to run right though. Am not much of a general mechanic, but had Kevin at Pacific Fabrication looking over my shoulder and feel pretty confident that I installed the new timing chain correctly. The only thing I was a little bit unsure about was reinstalling the drive-gear on the -counter-balancing shaft, and took the time to make 100% certain that it was correct. Thought maybe I had installed the distributor 180-degrees off, so I tried that, and I had it right the 1st time. It's weird. I can get it to start, and it'll run, but only at the mid-to-higher RPM's. If I let it drop down to anywhere near idle, it'll stumble and die. This is pretty much exactly what it was doing before I pulled the engine, so at this point I'm wondering if I might have replaced the engine for no reason. I did reuse the intake manifold, injectors, throttle body and distributor from the original engine (it was an X engine with a better FI setup than the W engine that I replaced it with). So maybe it's got something to do with that? Anybody have any ideas? Tell you what, I'm about ready to abandon this project because working on vans SUCKS.

Those are actually pretty good vans, not to bad to work on for vans. It sure is a lot easier to have a two post lift when you do it though.:D

From your symptons I would be looking for vacuum leaks. I have a fair bit of experience working on these.

Are you starting it off of the battery or jumping it off? I had the same problem trying to jump start a vehicle, I ended up not having enough voltage going to the ecu @ low rpms. A new battery fixed the problem.

what about the IAC? (idle air controller) its a little servo motor that controls how much air bypass the butterflies and is used to control idle speed.

Both above ideas I have seen in customers cars. Anoter thing is the distributor, you need a scan tool to set the timing correctly. I have seen these vans exhibit your symptons from having the timing off.

Those are actually pretty good vans, not to bad to work on for vans. It sure is a lot easier to have a two post lift when you do it though.:D

From your symptons I would be looking for vacuum leaks. I have a fair bit of experience workingg on these.
Compared to what? This is my first van.

Thanks, I'll start looking for vacuum leaks. What's the best way to go about that? Remember something about something about gas or propane or something and moving it around to see if the idle-speed increases? Installed new gaskets and seals pretty much everywhere. Didn't skimp on anything or reuse anything that was even halfway questionable. Didn't want to have to take this thing apart again any time soon!

Are you starting it off of the battery or jumping it off? I had the same problem trying to jump start a vehicle, I ended up not having enough voltage going to the ecu @ low rpms. A new battery fixed the problem.
Was jumping it before with the old battery, but just installed a brand new battery and was starting off the battery.

what about the IAC? (idle air controller) its a little servo motor that controls how much air bypass the butterflies and is used to control idle speed.
Kevin brought over a scanner and everything checked out OK on the old engine. Haven't had a chance to have him come back over to take a look at the new engine.

Both above ideas I have seen in customers cars. Anoter thing is the distributor, you need a scan tool to set the timing correctly. I have seen these vans exhibit your symptons from having the timing off.
Did not know that about using a scan tool to set the timing. Thanks, can see how that might have something to do with it as I obviously had to remove the distributor, and haven't done anything except put it back in at TDC.

Thanks for the help guys. Appreciate it.

You dont need a scan tool to set timing on a V6 like you do on a V8. The hold down clamp should only fit on one way. At TDC the rotor electrode should line up with a mark on the distributor housing, and the hold down should line up with the threaded hole in the intake manifold. Its not adjustable, like it is on a V8.

If you dont find a vacuum leak, check a few other things:
Remove the EGR valve and see if there is a chunk of carbon holding the valve open.
Does it smell like rotten eggs at or near idle? Could be a leaky injector.
It could be a partially clogged cat, disconnect the exhaust at the manifolds, see if it runs better.

All are common on these vans.

Also check the coolant temperature sender. I've seen that make the 4.3 run like that too

it looked like the van was jumping onto the trailer before I saw the tractor behind it... lol

I love 4x4 vans should be a sweet project

You dont need a scan tool to set timing on a V6 like you do on a V8. The hold down clamp should only fit on one way. At TDC the rotor electrode should line up with a mark on the distributor housing, and the hold down should line up with the threaded hole in the intake manifold. Its not adjustable, like it is on a V8.

If you dont find a vacuum leak, check a few other things:
Remove the EGR valve and see if there is a chunk of carbon holding the valve open.
Does it smell like rotten eggs at or near idle? Could be a leaky injector.
It could be a partially clogged cat, disconnect the exhaust at the manifolds, see if it runs better.

All are common on these vans.
Right, the hold-down tab is keyed to the distributor.

Yes, it did/does smell bad. Kevin thought the cat might be plugged, so we cut it out temporarily. No effect.

Will check the vacuum and the egr valve though.
Also check the coolant temperature sender. I've seen that make the 4.3 run like that too
Really? huh. ok, thanks.
it looked like the van was jumping onto the trailer before I saw the tractor behind it... lol

I love 4x4 vans should be a sweet project
Thanks, but this is just a 2WD van. Have plenty of other vehicles to take off-road, and a 6WD motorhome too. This is more for regular old road-trips and stealth urban camping and will be my daily driver too.

There was a 5/32 vacuum hose that was badly rotted, so I replaced that, but the engine did not run any better/worse afterwards. But the good news it that while trying to access the hidden end of that vacuum hose, I managed to break a plastic heater hose manifold that's attached to the AC unit. Also figured out that the X engine in my safari doesn't have an EGR valve.

Also check the coolant temperature sender. I've seen that make the 4.3 run like that too
Haven't put any coolant in the radiator yet. Good thing too, because it would have spilled all over the place when that little plastic manifold broke. But that wouldn't keep the engine from running right, would it? No coolant I mean. Unless maybe it makes the coolant temp sensor go crazy?

No, it will idle fine with low/no coolant. The sensor would just read whatever the air temperature is. On a cold start coolant temp and air temp are the same.

If your engine doesn't have EGR, and there are no vacuum leaks, I would lean towards a leaking injector. Will make it misfire at idle but smooth out as rpms go up.

Check the PCM too. Its common around here for them to fill with water, corrode internally and split in half. Will cause all kinds of quirks.

Should have asked earlier but does it set any codes?

Edit: Using your scan tool see what the coolant temp sensor reads before you start the engine.
Also if you have a mass airflow sensor, unplug it, see if it runs better.

That sounds pretty likely to me, especially since I reused the intake manifold and injectors from the old engine, and it's running just about the same as it did before I installed the new engine. The stock engine was an X with the MFI and the engine that I replaced it with is a W that had the older style fuel injection setup on it, which is why I reused those parts. Sucks that I might have wasted a bunch of time and money replacing the engine for no reason, but at that time it was suggested that the timing chain had jumped a tooth. But here I am, and still need to get this thing running. Looks like I should pull the upper intake manifold? Do I buy new injectors or have the injectors cleaned/serviced or what?

Oh and yes, we hooked it up to a scanner (old engine) and no, it wasn't throwing any codes. Haven't had a chance to hook the new engine up to a scanner.

Searching the internet for info about servicing/replacing the injector and the spider harness. Not turning up much. One local auto parts store has the injector in stock, and it costs $100, but I can't buy the spider harness through them. Another local auto parts store sells the spider harness lines individually and they're $136 each? Poking around online, looks like I can do a lot better price-wise, but am not sure what I should be looking to replace. Is it the injector and/or the spider harness that most likely needs to be replaced?

Looks like I can buy a whole MFI injector spider thingy for $180 from gmpartsdirect. The part number I keep reading about online is 12568332, but gmpartsdirect says it's been superseded. Guess it doesn't matter as long as I get the right parts. But am reluctant to keep throwing money at this thing, not knowing what the problem is. Advice?

Start by hooking up a fuel pressure gauge. Pressure should be above 60psi, then shut the key off. If it holds pressure the injector(s) isn't stuck open, look elsewhere. If pressure drops off quickly you have a leak. It could be an injector or pump leaking down.

Try it a few times, just to be sure.

If a whole new injector set is only $180 I wouldn't bother trying to clean them. (great photo of the part at gmparts:laughing:) Don't replace anything until you have some kind of proof.

The no codes thing is kind of odd. How long has the new engine run and will it idle at all?

Good luck, once you get the van running you will like it.

Put a fuel pressure gage on it and pressure was ok, but did not look to see if it bled-off. Will try that befpre buying a new injector spider. Thanks again for all the help with this.

Put a fuel gage back on it this morning and the pressure comes up to just over 60psi when I turn the key on, but then bleeds off (down to below 40psi) very quickly (10-15 seconds) when I turn the key off (like to kill the engine). Understand that could either be the injector/spider harness or the fuel pump, but the way it's running it seems to be spitting out a lot of un-burnt fuel (black smoke, plugged cat, etc.). So it's almost certainly the injector/spider harness that needs to be replaced, right?

You may be able to pull the upper intake manifold, remove the injectors from the lower. Then hook up your fuel lines, electrical connector, and try the pressure test again. It may take a few tries to get all the air out, but you should see fuel leaking. No need to crank the engine over, just cycle the key on and off.

Be cautious too

gmpartsdirect -> what a ripoff! That part is listed for $181.19, and then the price jumps up to $216.34 when you add it to your shopping cart, then they add $55.17 in 'shipping and processing' fees. Pffft, what a joke. Any better places to order GM parts online?

Just ordered this injector spider (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001J63ILW) from amazon ($180).

why dont you send this over to general chit chat till you get it running, then come back with some "EXPEDITION" mods later on down the road....................................

why dont you send this over to general chit chat till you get it running, then come back with some "EXPEDITION" mods later on down the road....................................
Hmmm, why don't you take a look at some of my other build-threads if you want to get an idea of where this is headed, and then go back to working on your rolling shitshow. Working on something totally unfamiliar to me, and am getting some valuable help here. OK with you? Gotta get it running before I can get into the fun stuff, mkay? But hey, while we're at it, maybe you could tell me more about these "EXPEDITION" mods? Shit, my van's not even 4WD though...

Isn't there only 1 Expedition Mod :confused:


In because I like these damn vans. :homer: v8 might fix it:grinpimp:

...then go back to working on your rolling shitshow.

:grinpimp:

Hmmm, why don't you take a look at some of my other build-threads if you want to get an idea of where this is headed, and then go back to working on your rolling shitshow. Working on something totally unfamiliar to me, and am getting some valuable help here. OK with you? Gotta get it running before I can get into the fun stuff, mkay? But hey, while we're at it, maybe you could tell me more about these "EXPEDITION" mods? Shit, my van's not even 4WD though...

Well played sir:D

I'd forgotten all about those spider harnesses since I quit the GM dealer 5 years ago. We always had them in stock and sold a ton of em.

Good luck with the van, they're a pain in the ass to work on but alot of fun.

Now I'm gonna go check out homeboys rolling shitshow lol

Just ordered this injector spider (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001J63ILW) from amazon ($180).

After dicking with the 4.3 vortec in My buddies buggy for the last year trying to get it to run right we finally replaced the FI with a Edelbrock manifold and a Holley carb. Runs perfectly now...........

Little late now, but check out www.rockauto.com for all of your parts needs. They pretty much blow Advance Auto/AutoZone/Napa/etc out of the water.

Thanks! That looks like a great resource.

Thanks! That looks like a great resource.

and do a web search for the 5% off coupon code. They always have it. After you order once they just email you the code and it's good for 60 days or so. usually pays for my shipping anyway.

You're a dick! I'm pissed! You pulled the engine out through the front and I had to lift the body up to do it on my first Safari... now I see that I can pull the eng. out of my newer Astro like you did. Where the hell were you when I did it before, dammit?! (By the way, this is SARCASM, I'm not really pissed... ha):D:p:) I only JUST went through this thread today... keep it up!:grinpimp:

updates?

Working on it this afternoon for the first time in weeks. Have been busy with other projects. Got the new injection harness installed, and... it wouldn't start. Was really confused, because hadn't done anything that should have affected that. But turned out to be a faulty starter, which took me a while to figure out because it was brand new. Swapping that out right now.

Solved that problem. Engine cranks over now, but still won't start/run right. Need to go borrow that fuel pressure gage from pacfab again so I can check to make sure that the new injector spider thingy solved the fuel pressure problem. Hope it's not the fuel pump, because those are esspensive.

Finally got running! Sounds healthy, but can't drive it yet because I broke the plastic heater control valve and am waiting for a new one to be delivered. Had to remove the cats because they were all plugged-up (probably a result of being driven with that leaking injector/s), so got that all sorted out today. Think I might have to get the ECU flashed so it will run right without the cats. Have to look into that. Am going to get it registered and then put a few miles on it to make sure I like the platform. Am not loving the idea of ever working on it again, that's for sure. But if I like driving it, then I'll get into the fun stuff.

Thanks again for all the help guys.

you should just need a simulator to fake having a cat to the ECU.
they're like 50 bucks.

just fools the computer into reading the proper voltage from the deleted 02 sensor.

Thanks, that's a good suggesting, and that's what I did on my Tacoma (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=12505074). Seemed to work alright. Need to look into it a little bit further to see if there's any reason to do it one way or the other.

IT'S ALIVE!!!!





You have already replaced all the hard stuff on it. Any other work should be easy.

You have already replaced all the hard stuff on it. Any other work should be easy.
Yeah, hope so. Spent a lot of time cleaning everything, did a bunch of preventative maintenance, etc. Just want to make sure that it's going to be reliable, and that I like driving it. Have heard people reporting gas mileage from low-teens to mid-twenties, and that's another thing I want to get a handle on. If I decide to keep it, am gonna cut the roof off and build a roll cage/high-top conversion, so just want to be sure it's worth all the trouble....

you should just need a simulator to fake having a cat to the ECU.
they're like 50 bucks.

just fools the computer into reading the proper voltage from the deleted 02 sensor.

Don't even have to do that.

Take an O2 sensor to your local hardware store and get a nut to fit it. (can't remember size or thread pitch) Just drill a hole in the pipe and weld the nut to the pipe over the hole them screw the 02 sensor to the nut. That spaces the O2 sensor out of the stream enough that it won't throw a code.

I did this to my 4.3 and it worked like a charm.

Thanks, I think I might just try that. Are those O2 sensor readings used to make any adjustments to fuel or timing or anything? Just wondering if it's going to affect the way the engine runs.

Thanks, I think I might just try that. Are those O2 sensor readings used to make any adjustments to fuel or timing or anything? Just wondering if it's going to affect the way the engine runs.

All the rear O2 sensor does is tell the computer if the catalytic converter is bad. The front sensor fine tunes the air fuel mixture. The downside is when that back sensor sees that the converter isn't there it sends the computer a message saying "hey there's something wrong". When the computer see's that signal it goes into "open loop" which is a preset set of air/fuel parameters from factory. (ignoring the front O2 sensor)

That's why when someone cuts the catalytic converter off the vehicle it's starts getting crap fuel economy. Not because there's magic in there that makes fuel mileage, but because when the computer goes to open loop it can't fine tune the air fuel ratio for optimal economy.

Thanks, that's how I thought they worked on the older vehicles, but this '02 is much newer than anything else I've ever owned/built, and didn't know if that had changed.

Damn, beat me to it.

The 02 sensors downstream of the cats only tell the computer if there is a cat and that it is working properly. As long as you have the upstream cats, the fuel, timing, etc will be fine.

Dan

Damn, beat me to it.

The 02 sensors downstream of the cats only tell the computer if there is a cat and that it is working properly. As long as you have the upstream cats, the fuel, timing, etc will be fine.

Dan
Upstream cats? No, removed both of them. Would not normally do that, but they were both plugged, and just can't justify buying new ones to replace them.

X-whatever we are up to, on the downstream O2s, they are just a check to see if the cats are working.

Are you planning a hard shell or tent style high top?

Hard-shell. Just cutting off the roof and building a simple roll cage that will make the new roofline, and then skinning it. Only planning on going up about 4-6", just high enough to be able to load dirtbikes into the back of it...

Only put spacers on the 02 sensors after where the cats used to be, not the ones before the cats.

You can use a 18mm flat washer spark plug anti-fouler, found in sets of 2 in the "Help" brand section of most chain auto parts stores. Use a 1/2" bit to drill out the center of the spark plug anti fouler, and the O2 sensor will now thread into it, and it into the exhaust. That gives you a spacer without any welding, and it's removable if you put cats back in down the line to pass emissions or something. They work great.

Oh yeah, it's a federal crime to tamper with the emissions systems on a vehicle, but since you already hacked the cats off I doubt you care.

Only put spacers on the 02 sensors after where the cats used to be, not the ones before the cats.

You can use a 18mm flat washer spark plug anti-fouler, found in sets of 2 in the "Help" brand section of most chain auto parts stores. Use a 1/2" bit to drill out the center of the spark plug anti fouler, and the O2 sensor will now thread into it, and it into the exhaust. That gives you a spacer without any welding, and it's removable if you put cats back in down the line to pass emissions or something. They work great.
Awesome, thanks. That sounds like a super cheap/easy solution.

If you are going to DD the van, I would suggest cutting an inch or so off of the right side of the brake pedal. My foot tends to get caught between the brake pedal and doghouse when lifting off the gas. Not fun when panic braking in traffic. . .

Whoa, that's terrible. If I keep it, I'm going to do a few things to make it a little bit safer (rollcage), but thanks, I'll definitely look into that brake pedal issue.

Got the broken heater control valve replaced, so was finally able to add coolant. New valve with aux. fittings is on the right. Just capped them for now, but will probably use them for an aux heater later.

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/heater_control_valve_01.jpg

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/heater_control_valve_02.jpg

Also started working on a new rear bumper. Not in any hurry to cut the roof off, but wanted to be able to tow stuff. So visited the salvage yard and bought some scrap metal. The main bumper is 3x5" x .188-wall and I'm chopping-up an old H2 spare tire carrier to make a spare tire carrier / cargo rack. The whole point of this project is to build something down-and-dirty. cheap-cheap-cheap. But am going to try to make it nice-ish.

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/rear_bumper_01.jpg

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/rear_bumper_02.jpg

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/rear_bumper_03.jpg

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/rear_bumper_04.jpg

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/rear_bumper_05.jpg

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/rear_bumper_06.jpg

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/rear_bumper_07.jpg

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/rear_bumper_08.jpg

Ooooooh, what? 1-ton Safari?

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/1-ton_astrosafari.jpg

Ooooooh, what? 1-ton Safari?



:smokin:

Ooooooh, what? 1-ton Safari?

NOW you're talking.

Got a few funny looks on my way down to pacfab this morning...

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/rear_bumper_09.jpg

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/rear_bumper_10.jpg

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/rear_bumper_11.jpg

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/rear_bumper_12.jpg

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/rear_bumper_13.jpg

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/rear_bumper_14.jpg

Vry Niice :smokin:

Made a little bit more progress on the rear bumper today.

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/rear_bumper_15.jpg

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/rear_bumper_16.jpg

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/rear_bumper_17.jpg

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/rear_bumper_18.jpg

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/rear_bumper_19.jpg

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/rear_bumper_20.jpg

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/rear_bumper_21.jpg

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/rear_bumper_22.jpg

Rattle-canned the rear bumper today, just to keep it from rusting until I find time to finish it. Was cold out today though, so decided to let the paint dry for another day before mounting it.

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/rear_bumper_23.jpg


Spent most of the day cleaning out the van after yanking the roof rack and stripping shelving out of the back.

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/cleanout_01.jpg


Done! Trying to keep it simple...

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/cleanout_02.jpg

A guy that i worked with for a bit had a van like this, and he made a platform towards the back that had a futon matress on it. Underneath there was tons of storage and it was all accessible by folding the matress and opening the few compartments. When he opened the back doors, there was an open space right under the bed for immediate storage, and then there were seperate comparpments past that. There was still (living space) in front of the bed that he was able to hang out in with camp chairs ect. He made a space that was designated to all camping supplies (stove, cooking gear, plates and utensils) that was accessible from the living space and also undrer the bed. He also cut in one of those roof vents so that he could cook inside (with propane and the doors open with a tarp lean to) in crappy weather. One more thing, he also put the two front seats on swivels so that they could be rotated around, and offer additional seating for the living space.

That was a lot of info, but that shot of your interior made think of his van. He has tons of storage, permenant sleeping arrangment and enough hang out space for bad weather.

dallas

Jesse. Post 66, Looking at the Second to last, and last Pic. Will the Barndoors still be able to open with the Swingarm on. Especially the Driverside with the "Clasp". Or is it just screwy camera angles ?

Sounds pretty cool. Spent most of last night sitting in the back of mine with a flashlight, trying to figure out how to make best use of the space I've got to work with. Not going to turn this into a dedicated camper. Am going to use it as a daily-driver for a while, to haul my dogs and bikes, and whatever else. So trying to keep the permanent storage compartments and all the over-built-in nonsense to a minimum. Have a pretty good idea of how I think I might tackle it, but am really not in much of a hurry to get into it. Stoked to get it running, and want to spend some time getting more familiar with it to make sure it's worth putting the work into.

Jesse. Post 66, Looking at the Second to last, and last Pic. Will the Barndoors still be able to open with the Swingarm on. Especially the Driverside with the "Clasp". Or is it just screwy camera angles ?
Yes. Spent a long time taking measurements to ensure that it wouldn't hit. Have mounted and tested it and it's close, but it clears. Not even really sure what I'm going to do with that swingaway tire carrier yet. Just threw it on there because I had it laying around. Figured it would be cool to mount the spare tire back there so I can use the space behind the rear axle to carry water and a few batteries. Not sure what else. Really don't want to change the overall look of the vehicle all that much. It's super-stealthy, and I like that...

If your going to DD the Van, I'll highly suggest to just leave the Swing Arm off.

My Car is permanently packed/stocked/setup and ready to go, as we try to get away as much as possible, but a while back I had to DD my Cruiser for a while, and the Swingarm irritated the living hell out of me. To first undo the clasp and swing open the arm before you can get to the Bootlid, and start chucking in Kids Schoolbags, groceries, etc started getting old real quick.

This was my setup, and at the end of the day, I just completely removed the arm.

http://www.landcruiserclub.co.za/cms/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/16895/img_1382.jpg

http://www.landcruiserclub.co.za/cms/modules/coppermine/albums/userpics/16895/img_1383.jpg

That looks like a nice setup. Am familiar with the hassles associated with swingout carriers like these, but don't anticipate needing to use the back doors very often. Got that big sliding side door and could really make better use of the space under the floor behind the rear axle. When I say that I'll be using this as a daily-driver, I'm talking about taking my dogs for bikerides and that sort of thing. Ride a motorcycle most of the time, so the van can stay packed, but this is more of an exercise in minimalism than an excuse of over-accessorize (yeah, pretty much the exact opposite of mah deuce (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=955676)). Probably will end up leaving the spare tire carrier off a large part of the time, but only because I don't want to drive around with shovels and shit hanging off the back of my minivan all the time.

Got the bumper mounted, wired-up a nice 7-pin/flat-4 tow harness, then spent the rest of the day organizing and packing my camping gear. Leaving for OR on Monday. Planning on building a simple raised sleeping platform when I get back.

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/V1_01.jpg

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Been all over the place in this little Safari, and it's working out pretty well. The size is about perfect, except that I wish it was just a little bit taller. Haven't had any problems with it at all, and it's been getting almost exactly 20mpg. Only mishap was a high-speed spinout on Hwy97 while I was towing a trailer through a light snowstorm in the middle of the night. Other than that, the 2WD, stock suspension and street tires ave been getting it done. Just got back from a trip up into the Mendocino National Forrest and despite some pretty severe conditions (for a minivan), didn't have any more trouble out there. Was really just a matter of driving slower and smarter. Kinda funny to have to start thinking like that again after driving well-built off-road vehicles for so long.

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/astrosafari_adventures_00.jpg

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Almost definitely going to build one of these things. Just trying to decide whether or not I want to build this one, or sell it and buy an AWD astrosafari. Only thinking about it now, because I actually like it enough that I might keep something like this for a while. Can't really see any downside to having AWD, especially after installing free-spin hubs and would swap-in a transfer-case with low-range. Wouldn't think that little bit of extra weight should affect the gas mileage much, but I've read that a lot of people with AWD astrosafaris are only getting gas mileage in the mid-teens.

Was originally thinking that I'd be able to swap everything over from one van to another, but would really like to cut the roof off. Maybe the walls too. So then I'm obviously building on more of a dedicated platform.

Condensation is a big problem, and I want to insulate, but need to figure out all this other stuff before I can do anything about it. Really need to build some kind of sleeping platform and storage too...

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/astrosafari_adventures_21.jpg

4 dogs! No wonder your building a deuce and a half

Mid to high teens is about all you will get out of an AWD astrosafari. Replacement parts are more expensive. The 2wd vans seem to go forever while the AWDs are always broken. Trans, transfer case, unit bearings, etc. . . they dont hold up well over time. Just my $0.02.

Selectable 4wd would be better. I'm interested in the free spin hub conversion. Would that be a custom creation, or are the available commercially for the ifs suspension?

Aren't you a little far south for a dog sled team?

4 dogs! No wonder your building a deuce and a half
Yeah, and I only had two dogs when I started building that thing. Now that I've got four dogs to deal with, I've gotta kick them out. They're all going to live in the doghouse/trailer.
Mid to high teens is about all you will get out of an AWD astrosafari. Replacement parts are more expensive. The 2wd vans seem to go forever while the AWDs are always broken. Trans, transfer case, unit bearings, etc. . . they dont hold up well over time. Just my $0.02.

Selectable 4wd would be better. I'm interested in the free spin hub conversion. Would that be a custom creation, or are the available commercially for the ifs suspension?
Ack. That's what I keep hearing. The AWD is so appealing, it's just hard to restrain myself. Wouldn't want to turn it into any sort of wild off-road vehicle, just something to better navigate the backroads, snow, beaches, etc. Would rather mob 2WD than pay that much more at the pump though. hmmm, tough decision.

Aren't you a little far south for a dog sled team?
uh huh, which is why we're struggling. I don't know how to run a dog team and they don't know how to pull. We're just goofing around. Usually run with them, but sometimes I'm lazy and it's actually pretty fun rolling around behind them. Sort of like waterskiing.

Keep the 2wd, put a locker in back, good tires, and have some recovery gear.

^x2

I agree, I think this thing is awesome. Must get warm in there with the four pups.

i'd be interested in know just how hard it would be to make it awd, or 4wd. can you use S-10 parts? or toyota stuff?

Keep the 2wd, put a locker in back, good tires, and have some recovery gear.
Yeah, 2WD with a locker would prolly get it done. There's plenty of weight back there, hardly ever lifts a tire. But doing a 180 on black ice at 50mph while towing a trailer was not exactly what I'd call fun. Would just prefer to have 4WD / AWD, but dunno if I'm really willing to pay the premium (more expensive to purchase/drive/maintain) in this case. The rear diff is offset to the passenger's-side, but I've been looking around a little bit to see if there's something that might be close to a bolt-in swap.

Must get warm in there with the four pups.
Yup. Really only need the insulation to address the condensation. Otherwise, it's fine. But I've slept in the back of it by myself in the middle of a snowstorm and was perfectly cozy too. Just had a nice sleeping bag. Dunno what else to say, maybe it's just that I'm used to tent camping, so having any kind of real shelter is nice for a change.

i'd be interested in know just how hard it would be to make it awd, or 4wd. can you use S-10 parts? or toyota stuff?
Not sure what you're asking. Or what I mean is, why. Like, if I invested in this rig and built it out and then decided that I wanted 4WD? Yeah, I've thought about that too. Guess I'd just need all the AWD parts from another van, and that sounds like a total fucking nightmare. Working on this thing is something that I don't want to have to do too much or too often. At least not beyond building it out the first time around.

i'd be interested in know just how hard it would be to make it awd, or 4wd. can you use S-10 parts? or toyota stuff?

You can swap an S10 front differential and transfer case into an AWD astrosafari. But I think you have to modify the passenger diff mount so it sits in the frame level. Also needs some floor support and drive shaft mods.

4wd S10's like to drink fuel too, so any mpg improvement may be minimal. An S10 transfer case and some type of selectable front hub would be best.

Or just keep the 2wd van, and swap in an e-locker

thought these were body on rigid frame vans. maybe a little 2-3" body lift and then better trail tires for it?
as for lockers and 180 deg spin-outs... i've had lockers in all my vehicles for many years now. mostly either Detroit's (my favorite) or LockRight's and never had any issue with them on ice even when pulling trailers. and living in northern Minnesota, i do drive on ice at least 4-5 months out of the year so i do have more than a little experience there. a rear locker has saved my bacon more than once in severe winter driving.
again, it's not so much what you drive, but how you drive that seems to make the difference near as i can tell.

What up Jesse. Glad to see your having fun for all of us. You still haven't painted "Free Candy" on this beast yet? That's how ya get the ladies man.:flipoff2:

I like this thread and I had no clue how easy it was to make a awd astro in to a true 4wd astro after a little google searching.

this link is a bit choppy but has some decent info http://astrosafarivans.org/bb2/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=82

It seems like swapping in an s10 t-case and s10 front diff with a cable actuator would give you darn near the mileage of a 2wd. This seems like an easy way to have a small cheap 4wd camper with more room than a pickup with a topper.

There are a fair amount of high top conversion astros out there you might be able to find one with awd or steal the roof off of it for some more head room.

how do you like that bike, i just got rid of my FR pig and ive been thinking about getting a spitfire.

thought these were body on rigid frame vans. maybe a little 2-3" body lift and then better trail tires for it?

They are uni-body with a front sub-frame. The front subframe is built just like a real frame, it just only runs from the front bumper to under the driver seat. The front bumper, front suspension/steering, engine, and I think trans crossmember are all attached to the subframe. It is connected to the body by 4-6 body mounts, so I guess you could do a body lift there if you wanted to, then would need to add blocks or lift springs to raise the rear by the leaf springs.

They are uni-body with a front sub-frame. The front subframe is built just like a real frame, it just only runs from the front bumper to under the driver seat. The front bumper, front suspension/steering, engine, and I think trans crossmember are all attached to the subframe. It is connected to the body by 4-6 body mounts, so I guess you could do a body lift there if you wanted to, then would need to add blocks or lift springs to raise the rear by the leaf springs.

That's how the the "kits" work. Body lift up front, springs or shackles in the rear.
http://www.overlandvans.com/0104_liftkits.html

You can swap an S10 front differential and transfer case into an AWD astrosafari. But I think you have to modify the passenger diff mount so it sits in the frame level. Also needs some floor support and drive shaft mods.

4wd S10's like to drink fuel too, so any mpg improvement may be minimal. An S10 transfer case and some type of selectable front hub would be best.

Or just keep the 2wd van, and swap in an e-locker
If I get an AWD van, would definitely put in a part-time transfercase with low-range. Hadn't started looking into which one, but using S10 stuff makes sense. What's the difference between the front diffs though?

thought these were body on rigid frame vans. maybe a little 2-3" body lift and then better trail tires for it?
as for lockers and 180 deg spin-outs... i've had lockers in all my vehicles for many years now. mostly either Detroit's (my favorite) or LockRight's and never had any issue with them on ice even when pulling trailers. and living in northern Minnesota, i do drive on ice at least 4-5 months out of the year so i do have more than a little experience there. a rear locker has saved my bacon more than once in severe winter driving.
again, it's not so much what you drive, but how you drive that seems to make the difference near as i can tell.
Would rather cut the fenders and wheelwells out like this (http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/article/clearance-for-35inch-tires-on-a-tacoma-at-any-lift-height/) than lift this thing, and am not sure I'd wanna run anything much bigger than about 30-31" anyway.

Wasn't saying that I was afraid a locker would make me spin-out. I DID spin-out in this thing, while towing a trailer. Fortunately nothing happened, but could have ended badly. Know that 4WD/AWD is not the cure-all, and I wasn't running snow tires or chains or anything. Just a matter of being best-prepared for the widest variety of driving conditions.

What up Jesse. Glad to see your having fun for all of us. You still haven't painted "Free Candy" on this beast yet? That's how ya get the ladies man.:flipoff2:
While I think that would be hilarious, am not sure I wanna deal with the consequences.
It seems like swapping in an s10 t-case and s10 front diff with a cable actuator would give you darn near the mileage of a 2wd. This seems like an easy way to have a small cheap 4wd camper with more room than a pickup with a topper.

There are a fair amount of high top conversion astros out there you might be able to find one with awd or steal the roof off of it for some more head room.
Was hoping that an AWD van with locking hubs and a part-time transfercase wouldn't take too big of a hit on the MPG, but am a little bit scared to spend all the time/money it would take to find out.

On the lookout for a hightop cap, but will most likely just end up building my own, using a rollcage to create the structure, then just skin it with sheetmetal and insulate the whole thing. Or I might do exactly the opposite and cut the roof and walls off, and turn it into a soft-topped Safari. Who knows...

how do you like that bike, i just got rid of my FR pig and ive been thinking about getting a spitfire.
Was riding an old Intense Tracer forever, but dirtbikes ruined it for me. Felt weird to be riding on top of a bicycle. This new bike feels a lot better in that respect. Much more like a moto, but is lighter than my Intense, has more travel, and still pedals just as well.

If I get an AWD van, would definitely put in a part-time transfercase with low-range. Hadn't started looking into which one, but using S10 stuff makes sense. What's the difference between the front diffs though?

The only major difference is that the S10 has an actuator to disconnect the passenger side axle when in 2wd. Same as the fullsize trucks. AWD trucks (astrosafaris, blazers) don't.

Oh, would rather just install locking hubs.

The AM/FM radio was killing me, so looked around online for a few minutes and bought a cheap digital media receiver (http://mobile.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL029038&pathId=139&page=1) (stereo). Think it ended up costing about $120 on amazon with shipping and the install kit and everything. Rocks.

http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/astrosafari_stereo_01.jpg


Also purchased one of those little bluetooth OBDII scanners for like $20 a while ago, back when I was trying to get this little hooptie running. There's a pretty cool android app called 'torque' that allows me to check codes on my cellphone. Fortunately though, haven't had any problems with it since I got the exhaust all sorted out.


http://www.trailslesstraveled.com/media/forums/astrosafari/astrosafari_bluetooth_OBDII.jpg

Oh, but the ram cellphone mount (http://www.ram-mount.com/Products/CellPhoneMounts/tabid/142/Default.aspx#/) kinda sucks. It's super-wobbly.

Very nice stereo upgrade :)
Scott

My other concern with fooling your computer with the o2 sensor, it might effect you mpg?

Great thread, Ive been thinking about doing the same thing but with a fullsize express van. I found a 05 with really low miles 5.3 and awd for alittle over 4 grand.

Looks like a well setup van.

A pair of spark plug antifoulers may be the solution for that pesky rear o2 sensor. Stack them and drill out the first one that the o2 threads into; leave the second one alone and install. :smokin:

Oh, thanks but the 'build' hasn't even started yet. Been 'expeditioning' the shit out of it though! Yes, it's got the MFPI setup and the spark plug anti-foulers did the trick. No check engine light ever since I installed them.

Cool van project!

I have always toyed with the idea of making a camper/funmobile out of a AWD Astro. Looking forward to your progress!

What wound up being wrong with your van?

nice start.

What wound up being wrong with your van?
Who knows. Just kept replacing stuff until one day it started and ran well, and haven't had any problems since. Have said it before, not much of a mechanic. Actually hate working on shit. Much more of a designer/builder.

Almost definitely going to build one of these things. Just trying to decide whether or not I want to build this one, or sell it and buy an AWD astrosafari. Only thinking about it now, because I actually like it enough that I might keep something like this for a while. Can't really see any downside to having AWD, especially after installing free-spin hubs and would swap-in a transfer-case with low-range. Wouldn't think that little bit of extra weight should affect the gas mileage much, but I've read that a lot of people with AWD astrosafaris are only getting gas mileage in the mid-teens.


what kind of fuel economy do you think an astro with part time t case, free spin hubs from an s10, small lift and 31's could put out? can the astro front end be converted to manual free spin hubs with off the shelf(junkyard)parts? which T case do you think you'd go with and why?

I have a shot at a 1998 astro awd panel for cheap and I am near 90% sure that I am going for it. it will be a camping/dirt bike van much as you have used yours for. I'm thinking sleeping platform hinged on the wall, basic camping setup, etc. fully usable as a van but quick to set up for an outing.

the t case swap sounds great but then I get to thinking that a nv3500 and manual shift t case would be an even better idea. :rolleyes: basically find a 4.3 5sp S10 and rob it for everything it's worth. the master cyl/pedal assembly type stuff could get weird.

I spent a lot of time looking into all that stuff and never got an answer that satisfied me. Number were all over the place, but nobody was talking about anything better than 17mpg, and 20mpg was my breaking point, so I didn't pursue it any further. By the way, you're gonna need to cut the roof off that thing if you want to haul dirtbikes in it.