Winch Hill 3 has really taken a beating lately. The Squeeze had a rock break off but it didn't really make it any easier or harder.

The real issue is the bypass. It has degraded a lot over the last few years and is getting as hard as the Squeeze. We need to do something to make it a viable bypass again for those that don't want to do the main trail.

There are two lines. The left side is the worst. It has become steep and off camber. We are thinking a gabion (rock filled basket) covered by a log ramp to protect it may work but we're no experts. Anybody have any ideas on what we can do to make the left line easier and sustainable?

The right line is pretty stable but can get a rig tippy. We were thinking of taking the tops off the rocks to make it smoother. Ideas?

We don't need comments like "If people can't do Winch Hill 3 then they shouldn't be on the trail." There are several bypasses to let the more mild rigs enjoy the Fordyce trail safely.

As a warning, any wise ass answers will just be deleted. We're serious here. We want to repair the bypass to restore it to it's function as a safe altenative to the Squeeze.

I think like the basket idea with some chainlink and logs and form a set of steps. Maybe railroad ties might last longer and help in the retaining wall department. I agree that wh3 is beat on both sides and the side between squeeze and the tree could be a little sketch for a new driver.

Honestly, I seemed to have a more dificult time navigating the bypass for Winch Hill 1.

That being said, I went up WH 3 bypass to the left and it would help to have that side less steep with the addition of the "gabion"...I am not too sure how you would position a log ramp to help on that side, in a way that it would stay :confused:

edit: I type too slow :flipoff2: what kdub0013 said

Three of us just ran Fordyce on the Monday and Tuesday after the water was dropped for the Sierra Trek. IMO, the big rock that broke off into the Winch Hill should be dragged out so that is is back to it's orginal condition. I'm referring to the boulder under the driver's front tire in these pics:

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e215/taisiya8/Jeeping/Fordyce%20Creek%208-8-11/IMG_2112.jpg

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e215/taisiya8/Jeeping/Fordyce%20Creek%208-8-11/IMG_2114.jpg

As for the two by-passes, knocking the tops off of the rocks on the right isn't a bad idea. If you decide to go with this, you might want to make it lean away from the drop into the Winch Hill trail if you can do so without pushing everyone into the tree.

The left line really only needs something to fill in the base so that is less steep in my opinion:
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e215/taisiya8/Jeeping/Fordyce%20Creek%208-8-11/IMG_2101.jpg

A small gabion basket covered over with dirt would probably do the trick nicely.

Did you run before or after trek? If before... I believe that one is now at the bottom of the squeeze and broke into two pieces.

holy crap... yeah that rock is real new. wasn't there sunday after sierra trek when we headed down and out committee. The other one is down where your back end is on the driver's side. I can't see it there though.

I'll tell you as equiped as my rig is, I got denied on the squeeze by the new rock and some wet conditions. The far left line was a wheelie snagger w/ all my gear, even as long as the rig is. The middle line worked but I could see some other rigs get jacked on any of them. Isn't there a couple of big flat rocks enroute to the left line? might be easy enough to drag them up to the base of the left line then backfill w/ smaller material. No input on a gabion as I have no real world idea wtf it is or does aside from what I've learned here. :) That left line was very good (but always tricky) for as long as I can remember. Just needs some love. The middle line was a result of the left line getting bad a couple years back if I recall.

i'd say railroad ties as well with maybe some large rod's pounded threw them into the ground. possibly stack some larger rocks around them to help keep them there for long term.

holy crap... yeah that rock is real new. wasn't there sunday after sierra trek when we headed down and out committee. The other one is down where your back end is on the driver's side. I can't see it there though.

The rock that hung you up on the way in is the same rock pictured at the top of the squeeze. It found it's way to the bottom before you had gotten there.

I am not a fan of modifying the far left line too much, i think it has developed into a feature that compliments the challenge of WH3 but i also recognize the necessity. especially when WH3 is plugged up with a rolled over rig there is still an alternative challenge. but that said this area has widened quite a bit and either needs to be closed and revegitated or beat down and tipped towards the tree away from squeeze might help if we want to keep the middle usable. i like the idea of breaking rocks, some stacking below the middle line and probably a winch point aht can be used by either the left line or the middle line.... that maybe part of the problem with this WH is the winch point or points are not very good for those who arent prepared

on the far left line i think we will find that the way the rock is over there without dowling something into the rock or putting some large very heavy boulders in place to hold any repairs up, in a few years we will be back again to where we are. i think as steep as it is a cage may just get tore up.... but maybe i am wrong.

i hate to see the left line change much at all i can still do it on 33" tall 35's a stock wheel base cj7 sua and on 4" worth of lift, it isnt easy and takes a little work but sure is fun. if it was a foot or so thicker at the base with medium sized rocks and then a couple of very large rocks a little further down hill holding everything up it would be alot easier i wouldnt thicken it much past that. to accomplish it I remember eyeballing this last year and thinking we might even be able to winch up a couple of those big rocks from down the hill and place them about 10' below the obstacle as some form of a retaining wall. we could then back fill the space between the boulders and the left line keeping the challenge but really beefing up the foundation as you pull up to the left line in a sense creating some "stairs" . it would take some rock moving but instead of wood and cables maybe some serious restacking of a few boulders the rocks might be in order. and with the size of the boulders im thinking of and how far they are down that hill you might have to have 2 or 3 rigs simoltaneously winch the larger rocks. I would rather see teh middle line be the focus of a bypass effort. breaking rocks building stairs and tipping it towards the tree but if we must modify the left theres my .02

i think a few dowels or some rip rap might be in order too at the base of the left line if you want to keep at least some of the smaller rocks from erroding out from there again.


Im still a little irked at the big rock that broke off that must have taken one heck of a differential hit to do that or........?



Brett contact me with a PM when it comes to Pressure treated timbers if that becomes the chosen route



Left line

http://inlinethumb15.webshots.com/46798/2930536130060221230S425x425Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2930536130060221230rsUIAu)

http://inlinethumb01.webshots.com/47808/2931805900060221230S425x425Q85.jpg (http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2931805900060221230XOWSQI)

looking at these pictures a few big boulders (3000-4000 lbs monsters) could be drug up hill and tucked into the soft dirt about 8-10' from the base of the left line and used as a retaining wall of sorts to hold smaller rocks up hill in place closer to the left line. it would cease any further errossion and might add a nice element of challenge while mellowing that side of the trail some.

The rock that hung you up on the way in is the same rock pictured at the top of the squeeze. It found it's way to the bottom before you had gotten there.

i was there on tuesday august 9th heading north on the trail when we got to wh3 the boulder was in the v crack, a group of jeepers coming south showed up and one of the older gentlemen with the group started talking about how it should be moved down. they winched it down right to the bottom of the pillow line, i have a small amount of video of this going on if anyone is interested.


imo it looks as though someone purposely removed the rock from its original location on the ledge, the ledge that remains after the boulder was taken down is perfectly flat along with the underside of the boulder in question. meaning it would not have slipped due to gravity, someone could have done it with their tire but im betting it wasnt a tire.

video of the boulder being moved

wh3boulder - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ftKk35fkg1M)

The middle line was a result of the left line getting bad a couple years back if I recall.
No suggestion about the fix, I'd need to walk it first... but Phil's comment resonates for me. We can't let WH3 widen any further... in 10 years, it has gone from one lane up to the middle to what's essentially three lanes. I recommend that any fix to the bypass be accompanied with signage to encourage folks to stay out of the bushes and off the trees in the middle... with maybe some well-placed boulders/logs to assist.

Randii

The rock that hung you up on the way in is the same rock pictured at the top of the squeeze. It found it's way to the bottom before you had gotten there.

OHHH they ran before sierra trek. Looonnnng day yesterday ;)

The boulder looks drastic up there but in the hole it's doesn't seem big.

As far as the by pass goes, I say leave the steep climb on the left alone. If anything something to prevent any further undercutting of the ledge.

I would think it would be easier to dress up the line to the right of the tree. Fill in the holes and make sure it's wide enough without going off camber into the main trail. Maybe just fill in a few select holes as you go around the tree with small rocks and concrete to keep the rigs level or leaning twards the tree.


The rock in Mr Greens pics under his left front is not the rock that split off the face of the wall. I dont know where that thing came from.

http://pirate4x4.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=677&pictureid=12815

Whoop there it is!:D

Whoop there it is!:D

I would have been easier to see if the husky guy was standing two feet to his right. :laughing:

I like the left line, it is one of my favorite obstacles. I would think that the middle line would be the easiest to modify. Like you stated, taking the tops off the rocks wouldn't be a bad idea. Maybe just putting a good winch anchor in strait in front of the left line would work too. We watched quite a few vehicles take the center line, and no one seemed to hav an issue, so smoothing it out a bit would probably be the best option. I really dont think it is any harder than the rock ledge on the re-route before winch hill one.

I like the left line, it is one of my favorite obstacles. I would think that the middle line would be the easiest to modify. Like you stated, taking the tops off the rocks wouldn't be a bad idea. Maybe just putting a good winch anchor in strait in front of the left line would work too. We watched quite a few vehicles take the center line, and no one seemed to hav an issue, so smoothing it out a bit would probably be the best option. I really dont think it is any harder than the rock ledge on the re-route before winch hill one.

Center line is by far the easiest and probably the easiest to modify. I like the idea of a winch anchor for the far left and I guess the squeeze will stay as is? I only went down the squeeze not up being only spooled in the rear :shaking:

I too also like the left line, just last weekend I went up and down that side with no issues.
I believe that the middle route should be address long before the squeeze or left line. At this point the middle just needs a couple of holes filled in possibly with a couple bags of quik crete would fill them in and blend in with the rocks so it would not look to out of place.

I think the middle line is the most solid and easiest to fix/modify and have it last.

I think it would be pretty tough to get stuff to stay in the left line. There was stuff there naturally and now its all gone. Gabions are good to drive over, but not up. They make good retaining walls like Webilt made on the off camber.

That boulder currently resides in the hole just before, what used to be the squeeze. With that boulder gone from the upper left of the squeeze it isn't much of an obstacle any more - I think just about anyone can get through there now. I think with a few more people running the trail and their feedback on that section, a consensus will be able to be made as to whether it is even the obstacle any more.

My opinion is to leave the other lines alone. The (former) bypass to the left would be the difficult line - and get more difficult with time. The (former) "squeeze rock" would be the bypass or the easier line.

I think time will answer the question on this with out any modifications to the trail.

Just my humble opinion.

Brett,
is this something you are looking at to fix on the Oct. 8 work day? It sounds like we also need to address the log dam/blockade at the old comittee route again.

I, like most of you would like to keep the trail challenging. However to keep the trail open it takes maintenance and work. I agree the far left line is fun to play on BUT it is the bypass. I will agree it does not need to be paved but it needs work.

Below is a picture of the gabion basket we built to fix the first off camber spot. Like Erik mentioned they are great for fixing an off camber spot and driving over but if you made them like a step they would be destroyed quickly.

What makes the left line hard is the depth. The rocks are gone and the dirt is going also making it steeper. I think the best way would be to make a couple retaining walls and back fill them. The wall would be a step you would drive over. Each step would be about 5-10 feet apart. My first thought was a log or railroad tie that has rebar deep in the ground to hold it in place. Not sure how long it would hold up though. Maybe a line of bigger rocks would be better but how do we get them to stay?

Just throwing out ideas...



Pictures of fixing the off camber spot with the gabion basket. To show how they work.

http://fourdice4x4.com/photos/albums/album20/P7170269.sized.jpg
http://fourdice4x4.com/photos/albums/album20/P7180329.sized.jpg
http://fourdice4x4.com/photos/albums/album20/P7180330.sized.jpg
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=456239&stc=1&d=1248469224
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=456241&stc=1&d=1248469224
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=456245&stc=1&d=1248469364

nice to see that got fixed JDunn that shit was getting a little hairy.

nice to see that got fixed JDunn that shit was getting a little hairy.

We will be repairing the other off camber spot next spring after the snow melts. I think that spot is going to take two stacked gabion baskets.

Leave the left line as is, for a slightly less difficult line than the crack. Make the right bypass line repairs as neccassary. This way, there are three choices of difficulty for that section of the trail.

Leave the left line as is, for a slightly less difficult line than the crack. Make the right bypass line repairs as neccassary. This way, there are three choices of difficulty for that section of the trail.

i agree, if you cant make it up the far left or up the crack then you can go through the easy middle line. i dont see why we should make TWO easy bypasses, if your skill or vehicle is not up to par to make it up the far left or through the crack then do you really need/deserve two different bypasses? i think the middle bypass should be made into a rock ramp for those lesser equipped to handle a difficult trail and leave the rest alone.

i was disappointed upon returning after trek was over to see one of the larger boulders near the bottom of the bypass had been pushed off the side of the hill down into the vegetation :(

We will be repairing the other off camber spot next spring after the snow melts. I think that spot is going to take two stacked gabion baskets.

Are you talking about the spot just a little further down the trail where your nearly at the top before decending?

This spot right here? and yes both of my shocks where blown out hence the lean.

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x244/Shamb55/Fordyce%2011-5-06/e5b3.jpg

Please post a larger pic...hard to see the detail. :flipoff2:

Brett,
is this something you are looking at to fix on the Oct. 8 work day? It sounds like we also need to address the log dam/blockade at the old comittee route again.

I think we'll need more time to come up with a good solution for WH3 so the focus of the Oct. 8th work day will be the upper part of the trail and filling in some holes that developed. However, we have been talking about the blockades and I think we'll try and tackle the Committee one. At least beef it up if not make it totally impassible as we have been wanting to.

I've talked to Webilt about helping out with the one at mile 6.5. They plan to do some work on it as their schedule allows.

So far it sounds like the general consensus is to make the middle line the bypass, leave the right and left lines alone except for some possible preservation efforts an keep the trail from widening.

Good imput guys. Keep any mechanical solutions coming for a way to groom the middle line.

Please post a larger pic...hard to see the detail. :flipoff2:

:laughing:

i linked it off photobucket, no clue why it was so damn big.. i thought the same thing though. oh well

PLEASE, don't take it the wrong way, but can't we just leave it? BYPASS, BYPASS, BYPASS, starting to sound like the Rubicon and we all know what's happening there. TOO MANY BYPASSES = TOO MANY PEOPLE = TOO MUCH TRASH AND TRAIL MAINTENECE.

Quote from another post
Fordyce is the crown jewel of four wheeling in this state, and hope that it stays that way.

PLEASE, don't take it the wrong way, but can't we just leave it? BYPASS, BYPASS, BYPASS, starting to sound like the Rubicon and we all know what's happening there. TOO MANY BYPASSES = TOO MANY PEOPLE = TOO MUCH TRASH AND TRAIL MAINTENECE.
The bypasses are already there, already on the ground, the horse has left the barn. Fixing them to secure them and prevent continuing erosion, that's all that can be done now, short of closing them.

A little over ten years back, Fordyce had few bypasses, and the only way up Winch Hill 1 and Winch Hill 3 was up the trail itself (I miss that). Folks with less equipped rigs or folks with broken rigs have forged bypasses since then, and like many new routes that are developed without sufficient care, the bypasses are moving around and changing annually. I'm flat-out amazed that the Forest hasn't slapped us silly for creating these bypasses -- I think that's a real testimonial to how well FOF and the adopt-a-trail clubs are working with USFS, as in most other places, trail creation/expansion would not be tolerated, and would put the whole trail at risk to being shut down. Fordyce is not an open recreation area like Johnson Valley!

Let's work together to manage/maintain what's already there on the ground, and prevent further trail creation outside of a responsible management process.

Randii

The bypasses are already there, already on the ground, the horse has left the barn. Fixing them to secure them and prevent continuing erosion, that's all that can be done now, short of closing them.

A little over ten years back, Fordyce had few bypasses, and the only way up Winch Hill 1 and Winch Hill 3 was up the trail itself (I miss that). Folks with less equipped rigs or folks with broken rigs have forged bypasses since then, and like many new routes that are developed without sufficient care, the bypasses are moving around and changing annually. I'm flat-out amazed that the Forest hasn't slapped us silly for creating these bypasses -- I think that's a real testimonial to how well FOF and the adopt-a-trail clubs are working with USFS, as in most other places, trail creation/expansion would not be tolerated, and would put the whole trail at risk to being shut down. Fordyce is not an open recreation area like Johnson Valley!

Let's work together to manage/maintain what's already there on the ground, and prevent further trail creation outside of a responsible management process.

Randii

I disagree with fixing the bypass. leave it as-is and at one point it will get so difficult folk's will use the original trail again. by leaving the trail alone keeps less equipped rigs at the rubicon were they can blow up any obstacle they can't make.
yes, the horse has left the barn. but let's keep the farm. the easier we make the trail, the more unequipped people show up and like last year more bad press. I just don't what Fordyce ending up like the rubicon.
I miss the old days too, NO bypasses on winch hills 1 & 3, gate keeper @(rubicon)
and weekends with my kid's on the trail without a crap load people with unequipped rig's blocking the trail.

^ i guess the consensus is to repair really bad sections of the trail and at this point it makes sense on specific areas like the off camber repair on the ridge and the two trail reroutes. its not like were making fordyce really easy its a challenging trail regardless. however what about entertaining the thought of no more bypasses for the difficult sections. close them off with big boulders, logs or other methods. i wouldnt be opposed to that idea; what would be so bad about that. one way through, if you can't make it go home.

We will be repairing the other off camber spot next spring after the snow melts. I think that spot is going to take two stacked gabion baskets.

if you guys ever want help on your projects drop me a PM. ive been to the FOF meetings so youll recognize me. im close to the trail in loomis.

Brian.

however what about entertaining the thought of no more bypasses for the difficult sections. close them off with big boulders, logs or other methods. i wouldnt be opposed to that idea; what would be so bad about that. one way through, if you can't make it go home.

So are you suggesting that we start closing down parts of the trail? We worked really hard to make sure we got every inch of the trail on the map and now we want to give it up to "keep it hard"? You close the wh3 bypass, how long do you think it will take for someone to make a new one....

Personally since the bypass is already there I have NO issue with stabilizing it to keep it from detiorating further. I would much rather have that option available to someone with a less well built rig then to have to sit and wait 4 hrs while he totally blocks the trail in the squeeze.

So are you suggesting that we start closing down parts of the trail? We worked really hard to make sure we got every inch of the trail on the map and now we want to give it up to "keep it hard"? You close the wh3 bypass, how long do you think it will take for someone to make a new one....

Personally since the bypass is already there I have NO issue with stabilizing it to keep it from detiorating further. I would much rather have that option available to someone with a less well built rig then to have to sit and wait 4 hrs while he totally blocks the trail in the squeeze.

I'm in the AAT program in the San Bernardino NF. Our group just got Holcomb Creek trail reopened. I totally agree with you; don't close anything thats already there. We've lost too much ground already. I just ran Fordyce for the first time the Monday the water level dropped for Sierra Trek. This trail ROCKS! Has to be the best trail in the Sierras as far as I'm concerned. You guys do a freakin awsome job.
I say fix the middle line for a bypass and leave the left and right lines alone. Looks like topping the rocks and filling in some holes will fix that fairly easy. Worse case is dig it out and install gabions.
And as far as that statement "how long do you think it will take for someone to make a new bypass"? It took one week for our trail to be illegally modified, and our obstacles don't even rate as a flat road compared to Fordyce. This shit ain't going away any time soon.
Thanks again for such a kick ass trail. We'll be back next year.

tagen what part of this didn't you understand?

Fixing them to secure them and prevent continuing erosion

would you prefer the trail be closed down completely?

:shaking:

Does anyone have any pics showing the current condition of the middle line?

I was there about three hours ago, I just bought a commando on 35's 488 r&p arbs sm 465 a well set up rig for a daily driver and I did not even try left or right line. The middle line might have been doable but the rain and hail came and forced us back to trailer. I have tube buggy that goes right up any line at wh 3. If you dont fix this by-pass I can already see where the new one is going to be! Right before the sqeeze on RIGHT it looks like a old creek bed. straight up hill side threw trees to come out on top. The commity bypass has no more logs at bottom. We pulled some of the logs at top to block trail. I think a post hole digger and drop some logs into ground and bolt cross logs on top so it looks like gate not just tree's laying across trail!

So are you suggesting that we start closing down parts of the trail? We worked really hard to make sure we got every inch of the trail on the map and now we want to give it up to "keep it hard"? You close the wh3 bypass, how long do you think it will take for someone to make a new one....

Personally since the bypass is already there I have NO issue with stabilizing it to keep it from detiorating further. I would much rather have that option available to someone with a less well built rig then to have to sit and wait 4 hrs while he totally blocks the trail in the squeeze.

your right im wrong. but there shouldnt be anymore bypasses then there already is. i wasn't thinking so we can "keep it hard" but because these bypasses were created unecessarily in the first place. oh well they're all ready there so no i don't have a problem fixing them i was just thinking out loud. we don't need a bypass for every difficult obstacle on the trail. i see more being created down the road because people suck.

tagen what part of this didn't you understand?



would you prefer the trail be closed down completely?

:shaking:

I do understand, and if people stayed on the trail we wouldn't even be talking. and who said anything about closeing the trail:confused:
Have a nice day and God bless.

So are you suggesting that we start closing down parts of the trail? We worked really hard to make sure we got every inch of the trail on the map and now we want to give it up to "keep it hard"? You close the wh3 bypass, how long do you think it will take for someone to make a new one....

Personally since the bypass is already there I have NO issue with stabilizing it to keep it from detiorating further. I would much rather have that option available to someone with a less well built rig then to have to sit and wait 4 hrs while he totally blocks the trail in the squeeze.

correct me if im wrong but didnt we close the WH2 bypass?

I do understand, and if people stayed on the trail we wouldn't even be talking. and who said anything about closeing the trail:confused:
Have a nice day and God bless.

that's what will happen over time if these things don't get addressed. the trail can get erosion that needs to be repaired reguardless.. has nothing to do with whether or not they stay on the trail.

..more or less area's w/ heavy traffic.

your right im wrong. but there shouldnt be anymore bypasses then there already is. i wasn't thinking so we can "keep it hard" but because these bypasses were created unecessarily in the first place. oh well they're all ready there so no i don't have a problem fixing them i was just thinking out loud. we don't need a bypass for every difficult obstacle on the trail. i see more being created down the road because people suck.

Once the route map came out, what we have on the ground is what we have. Any bypasses and/or unaurthorized routes created from here on out HAVE to be closed.

correct me if im wrong but didnt we close the WH2 bypass?

It was awhile ago so if my info is wrong shoot me :flipoff2:

As I recall we were told by the FS to close 1 of the routes on WH2 because they saw them as being parallel routes up the hill rather then any sort of bypass they would consider in the route designation plan. So at that point we chose to keep the original trail and close the newly user created route at that time.

It was awhile ago so if my info is wrong shoot me :flipoff2:

As I recall we were told by the FS to close 1 of the routes on WH2 because they saw them as being parallel routes up the hill rather then any sort of bypass they would consider in the route designation plan. So at that point we chose to keep the original trail and close the newly user created route at that time.

We have blocked the inside route, on 2, a few times. In fact a few years back a HUGE tree had fallen at the entrance to it on the downhill side.

IMHO the main reason why new “off trail” routes are created is due to a trail blockage. Whether it be from mother nature like a downed tree, a difficult obstacle or someone broken in the middle of the trail. In this discussion of WH3 we have the LUXURY of discussing 3 lines. To minimize the risk of new user created routes we must look at the reality of a quickly deteriorating hill and address it. By doing some work to the hill I don’t see it as us giving up anything. In fact I see it as a way we can keep 3 lines open. I am certain we can stabilize it without creating massive ramps or paving a road through it. I am also certain the work done to the hill will require maintenance so it’s not going to be a onetime deal.

I disagree with fixing the bypass. leave it as-is and at one point it will get so difficult folk's will use the original trail again. by leaving the trail alone keeps less equipped rigs at the rubicon were they can blow up any obstacle they can't make.
yes, the horse has left the barn. but let's keep the farm. the easier we make the trail, the more unequipped people show up and like last year more bad press. I just don't what Fordyce ending up like the rubicon.
I miss the old days too, NO bypasses on winch hills 1 & 3, gate keeper @(rubicon)
and weekends with my kid's on the trail without a crap load people with unequipped rig's blocking the trail.

You must not have been on the Rubicon much back when Gatekeeper was still there then. As I recall there were still a ton of rigs on the trail, lots of them ill-equipped, lots of them stuck/broken at Gatekeeper, and lots of people making bypasses because they either couldn't make it through, or because the trail was blocked. POR and crew blocked the bypasses @ Gatekeeper numerous times (at LEAST annually) and they were always taken down or gone around even further.

I miss the Gatekeeper obstacle itself and the "idea" that it would filter people out, but I don't miss the mess that was there (traffic and off-trail mess) and the filter idea never actually worked very well.

You don't put a "filter" in the middle of the trail anyway. Once they get that far in they're probably just going to find a way around, not give up. I guess that's what would happen with Gatekeeper too though- once people were up there with plans to run the trail, they were going to go for it.


Also, another reason to have bypasses at places like WH 1 & 3 are so people can stay and "play" but other people can still get through/around.

..........
Also, another reason to have bypasses at places like WH 1 & 3 are so people can stay and "play" but other people can still get through/around.

This ...........

I remember before the bypass(es) started to sprout up at WH3 how if someone had pinched and broken at times it could be hours to get them out and out of the way. even after the bypass its still a pain when a whole group chooses to stop and block the trail while trying to repair their friend...... now a days if someone chooses to get into the middle of squeeze try a hard left line from inside the crack they can tie up the trail for quite awhile if their group is reasonably intelligent they pull off the the sides down below leaving room for others to pass (usually not the case but theres the option)

Looked like this on Saturday, I do not remember the pointy rock in the middle, however it's been a while since I had been there.

Some one asked for pix. These were taken the Thursday of Trek.

More Pix.

Great Pics. :smokin:






My thoughts are to fill in the areas in red with something permanate like concrete to privent further holes and to level out the "by pass" around the tree. Not to make it a highway but something that could be winched, tugged or driven over in a smaller tired broken rig safely.

I think that right now those holes and the somewhat off camber make it a bit hard for a by pass.

I think you'd have to drill and set some serious steel to keep concrete in those spots... the actual users of that lane probably wouldn't hurt it, but the people driving up the side of the true trail would otherwise rip concrete out in quick order, IMHO.

I suggest that any work that is done include multiple hardened winch points. It may not be 'stylish' or impressive to onlookers, but sometimes the most expedient way out of an obstacle is to pull rope... especially if you're broken, or holding up traffic, or under-equipped or -skilled. I've got not problem with anyone trying an obstacle, but if you're still banging on it 15 minutes later and you've made no headway, odds are that you need to back out or winch out and upgrade your mojo, your skills, or your vehicle.

Randii

Looked like this on Saturday, I do not remember the pointy rock in the middle, however it's been a while since I had been there.

Any chance you have a pic from this same angle but standing about 15 feet back?

Are you talking about the spot just a little further down the trail where your nearly at the top before decending?


The spot we are repairing is about 100 yards up the trail from the last off camber spot we fixed on the side of sunrise hill. It was hard to see in your picture.

if you guys ever want help on your projects drop me a PM. ive been to the FOF meetings so youll recognize me. im close to the trail in loomis.

Brian.

Thanks Brian, I'll let you know when we have the work day planned!

What if you remove the dead tree in the center so you can drive up the center? That would also keep people away from vegitation and side of the trail so not to further widen the area.

Guy's these are the other two I have. Mark

Here are 2 more from my files.

The middle line would be kinda easy if the pointed rock on right did not have point. Maybe be a few bags of concrete to fill in low spots. The ledge by tree is tall for a 35in tire. Dont know if a few bigger rocks could be put there and made to stay. Thay way left and sqeeze could be left alone. Like someone said earlier most people figure they made it this far way turn back now and will cut new trails around this spot. And to all people that say leave trail how it was. Back five years age I drove a sami on 32's threw trail and did not have to pull line once. This trail should be fun for all people to use! PM me numbers of people in charge or call me 916 204 9866 Joe I would be willing to take on this winch hill #3 problem and fix it!

Just remember, sometimes a dead rig needs to be towed through, so one of the lines needs to be kept in mind for that.

I like all the lines the way they are! but not everybody would agree with that. If I had to pick one I would say the right bypass. Leave the squeeze and the left bypass the way they are. from just below 3 all the way to five are my favorit parts of the trail its what make it compare to the con.