Unimog 404 tech data including axle data

[MOGXJ44]

Well someone's gonna ask so I'll beat y'all to it. Here's some good tech and other sites for good measure:

http://www.exaxt.ca/ AXLES etc. MogPartz

http://www.angelfire.com/ak4/johnson/ some TECH and info 404FAQ
http://www.angelfire.com/ak4/johnson/RockMog.html

http://www.rockymountainmoggers.com/unimog.html EVERYTHING MOG and Pinz. LINKS LINKS LINKS LINKS

http://www.unimog-forever.com/ INFO and TECH 404FAQ

http://www.cs.brandeis.edu/~zippy/unimog.htmlINFO 404 FAQ

http://www.unimogmagazine.com/INFO 404FAQ, TECH, & For Sale ( 4zale )

http://www.carradine.net/ 4zale, MogPartz

http://www.unimogwherehaus.com/trucks406.html 4zale
http://www.umog.com/ 4Zale

http://www.eurotruck-importers.com 4zale , MogPartz

http://www.expedition-imports.com MogPartz , 4zale


And one Volvo link for competition:

http://www.algonet.se/~fjaras/tgb11/eng/index.html

I know there are a whole lot more. This is most everything in my Favorites list. Some were intentionally left out 'cuz they are blatant advertisements for business'. :D Sorry. Others do still have business relations, but there is still some good info. on them (measurements, specs, history, links, and the like). Happy surfing!
Travis
Mogified XJ

404FAQ
MogLinkz

[coachgeo]

V8 conversions.. and Ford straight 6

lot more to it than swappn jeep motors. the flex frame and the torque tubes creat extra redesign issues. Such as if use domestic Tcase u have to also do a 3 or 4 link supension change due to noo more torque tube.

http://www.enderby.com/unimog/index.html

This company is out of business now

404MoPowa

[Steve N]

This is a killer site for Mercedes info (not 4X4 related but good)

http://www.mercedesmailinglist.com

Mg linkz

[MOGXJ44]

Ordering custom Hummer rims. Could you please verify my measurements on the following:
4.5" Backspacing
4.75" was max, hitting the hub bolt flange. 4-5/8" to bolts holding hub onto flange. 4.5" was giving 1/8" clearance.

6 on 8-1/16" Bolt Pattern
I think this is dead nuts on.

3/4" Bolt Hole Diameter
Stud was actually 11/16". Gave it 1/32" clearance all around.

6-3/8" Center Bore Diameter
Was actually 6-5/16". Again, gave it 1/32" clearance all around.

Thanks,
Travis

404 axle

[MOGXJ44]

Also need to know what degree of chamfer on the bolt holes.
Thanks,
Travis

404 axle

[MOGXJ44]

This is a PM I received from ryeguy, posted with his permission:

Re: Stock 404 wheels
Hi Travis,
Everything is metric.

The bolt pattern is 6 on 205mm (NATO). The wheel stud is also metric (forget offhand, I'll have to measure it later). Same with the hub center diameter that the rim sits on.

Be careful on your backspacing. I figured 4 inches is all you'd want with the Hummer rims, or you'll be into machining on the drum and backing plate (can be done). I don't want to push it any further than that because you have to expect the tire to flex and bulge and change shape when you take runs at the big rocks on the trails. Think clearance to steering parts as well to the portal parts.

--Rob

404 axle

For those of you not into metric conversions, there's 25.4mm in one inch. 205mm/25.4mm=8.07" or 8-1/16". I'll post any more info when I get it.
Travis

[Station]

205mm circle
18mm studs
161mm hub dia.

I think 404's actually have a 160mm hub dia., I got this measurement off of my axles which have a very slightly larger hub dia. than 404's, but it doesn't really mater anyway if you go oversize as they are lug-centric.

Sean

404 axle

[MOGXJ44]

Originally posted by Station
205mm circle
18mm studs
161mm hub dia.

I think 404's actually have a 160mm hub dia., I got this measurement off of my axles which have a very slightly larger hub dia. than 404's, but it doesn't really mater anyway if you go oversize as they are lug-centric.

Sean
Thanks Sean. Conversions as follows:
205mm/25.4mm=8.07" or 8-1/16" Bolt Pattern
18mm/25.4mm=.71" or 11/16" Stud Diameter
160mm/25.4mm=6.30" or 6-5/16" Hub Diamter

So does anyone have a opinion on what angle I should have the bolt holes beveled (sp) to and how deep? I think the custom centers will be @ 3/8" thick.
Thanks,

404 axle
Travis

[Station]

Measure the angle that is on your lugnuts. You would want to match that angle correct?

About the 160mm center. I would go larger on that, because the hubs are lug-centric anyway. You will want a little extra room on the center hole.

Sean

404 axle

[MOGXJ44]

Originally posted by Station
Measure the angle that is on your lugnuts. You would want to match that angle correct?

About the 160mm center. I would go larger on that, because the hubs are lug-centric anyway. You will want a little extra room on the center hole.

Sean
Yeah, got a rough idea of the angle. I think it's about 45*. Think I'll have the stud holes bored about 3/16" deep at 45*. That would be about halfway through and still leave 3/16" of straight through "meat", if the centers are truly 3/8" thick.

Gonna have the hub center hole and the stud holes cut 1/32" larger all the way around. So that would be 6-3/8" center bore and 3/4" stud hole. So it would end up like you said, fit a little sloppy and then get centered with the lug nuts. Any time the lug nuts have a beveled edge the wheel is not hub centric, right?
Travis

404 axle

[Mieser]

This is an edited post by the Moderator to aid those searching for information about Mog 404 Axles



Mob Hub Bolt pattern: Does someone know off hand what the 404 wheel bolt pattern is? Is it 8 bolts on 6.5 inch or 8 on 8?

Neither. 6 bolt, 205 mm pitch circle.

Nothing but Unimog gear will fit factory 40 hubs. There are conversions for 8 on 6.5".


==================================

Here you can find all measurements
Provided by Tibus Offroad (Wolfgang)

http://killeraxles.com/html/axle_measurments.html

==================================


404 portal box measuerments- What is the measurement from the centerline of the axle to the centerline of the stub axle?

Wolfgang's responce:

4.33"

==================================

404 axle

[DanB]

friend of mine wants to know how wide is the 404 frame

thanks..

404FAQ

[Wolfgang]

outside 30", inside 24"

www.killeraxles.com

404FAQ

[Wolfgang]

http://killeraxles.com/assets/images/Mog404-1.jpg

Here you can find some information about the 404S

http://killeraxles.com/html/unimog_pages.html

404FAQ
404axzl
404axzlSpch
Mogpartz

[MOGXJ44]

Now if only I could read German. :confused:
Travis

404axzl
404axzlSpch

[Wolfgang]

I will translate as soon as i can.
If somebody has a question in the meantime, please ask.

Wolfgang

[siebert]

Great information on Wolfgang's site.

How about the addition of axle shaft necked down diameters? I hear each shaft has a different diameter.

Would be good info for people building hybrid axles that are wondering if there is enough material on the shaft to respline.

404axzlSpch

[Donovan]

What is the size of the spline on the little gear on the Reduction hub? Also is the Big gear in the reduction hub is it splined to the shaft that the wheel hub bolts to (presses on to)? Thanks

404axzlHub

[coachgeo]

Originally posted by Donovan
.......... snip Also is the Big gear in the reduction hub is it splined to the shaft that the wheel hub bolts to (presses on to)? Thanks

can you reword this part of the question please.

404axzlHub

[Donovan]

Is this big gear , http://www.killeraxles.com/assets/images/CTIS_009.12jpg..JPG splined to the shaft that the two bearings ride on?

404axzlHub

[coachgeo]

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/uploads/hub.JPG

404axzlHub

[Wolfgang]

The axle shaft has the same splines on both ends! Outer Dia is 1,6" 8splines.There is no spline inside the big gear. There is only a thread inside for the bolt to hold the hub in place. The stub shaft and the big gear is one part.

www.killeraxles.com

404axzlSpch

[Tass]

Originally posted by siebert
Great information on Wolfgang's site.

How about the addition of axle shaft necked down diameters? I hear each shaft has a different diameter.

Would be good info for people building hybrid axles that are wondering if there is enough material on the shaft to respline.

I have a couple of 404 axles apart right now, I'll measure the shafts. Here's a pic of a longside front 404 shaft compared to a Toyota minitruck shaft

Tass

404axzlSpch

[Tass]

Ok, I'm back with some measurements.
Front shorts side : 1 3/16"
Front long side: 1 5/16"
Rear short side: 1 3/8"
Rear long side: 1 9/16"
The splines are all 1 5/8"

Tass

404axzlSpch

[MOGXJ44]

So here's a scenario. Two shafts are the same diameter but different lengths, like in a standard D44. Doesn't the short side almost always break first? Has less length to spread out the twist, so it snaps first. If this is true, then the Mog axle measurements seem backwards. Anyone? Anyone?
Travis

404axzlSpch

[unissamog]

all of the axles are sized differently so they will "twist" the same. they will have the same amount of "spring" to them. the mog designers made it so theoretically all the shafts will break at the same time.

404axzlSpch

[MOGXJ44]

So if they are set up the "twist" the same, let's say 30*, then won't the smaller, shorter shaft be closer to the break point than a larger, longer shaft?
Travis

404axzlSpch

[unissamog]

maybe I am wrong on the breaking points, but the "twist" in the axles, or the springiness, should all be the same.

imagine them as a torsion bar on an IFS. The longer the bar (keeping same diam, and material) the softer it is. the thicker the bar, the stiffer. so the short ones have to be thinner, and the long ones thicker to make their "torsion bar" values the same.

as for how close they are to breaking, i'm not sure. I't still gonna take a hell of a hit to break them with the reduction gears.

404axzlSpch

[siebert]

I believe the theory behind the different diameters is that a shaft will have a certain amount of elastic torsional deflection. As you increase the length of the shaft, you increase this deflection. So to make the deflection the same for two shafts of different lengths, a smaller diameter will provide the shorter shaft with the same deflection as the larger shaft. Stress and strain are related to each other, so if the deflection is the same, the stress should be the same value.

Sound right?

404axzlSpch

[Tass]

Originally posted by siebert
I believe the theory behind the different diameters is that a shaft will have a certain amount of elastic torsional deflection. As you increase the length of the shaft, you increase this deflection. So to make the deflection the same for two shafts of different lengths, a smaller diameter will provide the shorter shaft with the same deflection as the larger shaft. Stress and strain are related to each other, so if the deflection is the same, the stress should be the same value.

Sound right?

That makes sense except that the front long and rear short shafts are both around 28" long but they aren't the same size. Maybe the rears are a little bigger because they see more load?

Tass

404axzlSpch

[siebert]

That makes sense except that the front long and rear short shafts are both around 28" long but they aren't the same size.


Are you sure that the axle shaft lengths are the same on the front?

I was under the impression that the front and rear housings were interchangeable. If this is the case, then the axle lengths front and rear and the difference in length between them would have to be the same.


The theory of the different diameter axles works good if all tires are on the ground and have traction, but I wonder about how it works when you have one tire in the air and the short side axle on the ground. All of a sudden you have all of the torque that was split between two axles acting on one smaller diameter axle.

404axzlSpch

[MOGXJ44]

Originally posted by siebert
The theory of the different diameter axles works good if all tires are on the ground and have traction, but I wonder about how it works when you have one tire in the air and the short side axle on the ground. All of a sudden you have all of the torque that was split between two axles acting on one smaller diameter axle. A very good point. So we need some aftermarket 300m shafts that utilize the 1-5/8" diameter at the splines and don't neck down. It would be at least 100% stronger.

Travis

404axzlSpch

[coachgeo]

Originally posted by 1990JeepXJ
A very good point. So we need some aftermarket 300m shafts that utilize the 1-5/8" diameter at the splines and don't neck down. It would be at least 100% stronger.
Travis

WHYYYYYYYY??? :rolleyes:

Unimog
empty weight: 6393lb
gross weight: 9700lb

considering the weight of most the vehicles these axles will be under and considering what they were desinged for.... IMHO I dont think you can put forces on them any more than they were getting before .

404axzlSpch
404FAQ

[MOGXJ44]

Well I hope not to break anything, but if I do it will probably be my tranny. After the engine/tranny are replaced down the road I think my weak link will become the shafts. Just thinking ahead. :flipoff2:
Travis

404axzlSpch

[Tass]

Originally posted by siebert



Are you sure that the axle shaft lengths are the same on the front?


The front long side (from the dual cardan joint to the diff) and the rear short side are the same length. The housings are interchangeable. The rear one has a cast "extension" where the front has the steering knuckle assembly.

Tass

404axzlSpch

[bigjeep95]

I am looking for dimensions of the mog s404 axle flange that the portal hub bolts up to. If any one has this info in any kind of form it would be greatly appreciated. Any other info would also be appreciated. Thanks!

Casey;)

404AxzlHy
404axzlSpch

[bigjeep95]

I gotta a good question. How did you line up both flanges so they were at the same angle in relation to where you want the drive line to be........

404AxzlHy

[Tass]

Here are the measurements, use at own risk :p

Tass

404AxzlHy

[ryeguy]

Originally posted by MOGXJ44
Well I hope not to break anything, but if I do it will probably be my tranny. After the engine/tranny are replaced down the road I think my weak link will become the shafts. Just thinking ahead. :flipoff2:
Travis

Travis, you've seen my truck. And you know what I've put it through. Don't worry. At all. If you really want new shafts, though, then phone me. My stuff is significantly stronger than 300M.

--Rob

404AxzlSpch

[cruiserrg]

I have searched around and can't find the complete list of torque specs for the Axle assembly. This would be good info to have in the axle thread, plus I need them

So if you have a list of all the torque specs for every bolt on a 404 post up!

404axzlSpch

[drj]

cruiserrg:

The unimog technical data book has 40 page of torques specs for
unimogs. You can get a copy form the unimog dealers. If you e-mail
me I can give you some specific ones if needed. Lifes to short to
retype this book.

take care

dan

404axzlSpch

[cruiserrg]

Originally posted by drj
cruiserrg:

The unimog technical data book has 40 page of torques specs for
unimogs. You can get a copy form the unimog dealers. If you e-mail
me I can give you some specific ones if needed. Lifes to short to
retype this book.

take care

dan

Dan,

Thanks for the reply. Here are the spec I need:
Hub Bolt Torque
portal gear box bolts torque
kunkle bolt torque (both kunkle to housing, and knuckle to portal box)
diff bolt torque

404axzlSpch

[drj]

Cruiserrg:

Screw Plug of wheel 750-1000 Nm

steering-respectively steering knuckle arm to steering knuckle 290 Nm

steering knuckle inside to axle center housing 240 Nm

Axle transmission housing 120 Nm M10 grade 10.9

Axle drive housing M 10 120 Nm

Hope this helps

drj

404axzlSpch

[cruiserrg]

Thanks for the reply.

For those who what to see converted:

Screw Plug of wheel 750-1000 Nm = 553-737 ft-lbs

steering-respectively steering knuckle arm to steering knuckle 290 Nm = 213 ft-lbs

steering knuckle inside to axle center housing 240 Nm = 177 ft-lbs

Axle transmission housing 120 Nm M10 grade 10.9 = 88 ft-lbs

Axle drive housing M 10 120 Nm = 88 ft-lbs


:eek: Now I have to figure out how to tighten that hub bolt to 550 to 700 ft=lbs. WOW any suggestions!?!

404axzlSpch
404AxzlHub

[coachgeo]

Is it really a lot different than other rigs? Is all of this just information that is common sence to a good fabricator..

Here is an example of what the MB factory says about the U1300L


No drilling at all on the flanges. The frame web may be drilled. Maximum allowable hole size is 15.0 mm diameter, holes may not be placed closer to the web than 25% of the section height. Multiple holes to be on centers no closer than 50.0 mm."

"Welding is not allowed on the flanges. For welding the frame must be in a neutral position (free from all pre-tension). Do this by lowering any attachments to the ground and placing the hydraulics in float. Additional heavy weights and bodies should be removed.. Mounted accessories near the welding area should be removed. All plastic lines and electrical cables must be protected or removed. Disconnect battery, connect ground terminal of the welding unit directly to the part of the vehicle to be welded. Use only shielded electrodes. Electrodes must only be welded with direct current via the positive terminal. Inert gas, shield arc welding is preferable to manual arc welding. In order to avoid notching effects due to fusion penetration, grind seams in the
direction of tension, and, if necessary, reinforce with corner ieces.
Seams are not permitted in the bending bending radius. The distance between seams and the outer edge should be at least 15.0 mm."

Jack Russell quoting a factory manuel

Welding/drilling

[jelbehai]

Originally posted by cruiserrg



:eek: Now I have to figure out how to tighten that hub bolt to 550 to 700 ft=lbs. WOW any suggestions!?!

My father-in-law suggested I take the hubs to a local truck (as in 18 wheeler) service location, like a tire dealer who does service, and get them to break it free. I guess you could do the same to put them back together (I probably will). Just a thought...;)

404axzlSpch
404AxzlHub

[coachgeo]

see here

http://www.rockymountainmoggers.com/spencero.html

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/uploads/hardtop rockymountainmoggers_com_spencero.jpg

another in video here

http://www.mogstink.com/video/thisoldmog/thisoldmog3/thisoldmog3.htm

and one more... but this one is actually a conversion from soft top to a complete hardcab. Laungage is Icelandic but pics are pretty good. He speaks fair english and mentioned to email him if you got questions. Cab fabrication starts here on bottom of page 3

http://www.mmedia.is/~unimog/setur1/unimog3.htm

(home page link available here too)

DIY

[coachgeo]

here is some links to those that have converted the German etc. Amber tail lights to American Red.

http://www.stevelaslo.xpreshost.com/mog/pictures.htm
http://www.stevelaslo.xpreshost.com/mog/balkampmod.jpg


Anothers effort at improving the set-up, he stated he did so primarily to avoid being rear-ended - no problems so far in two years of driving. (reported 2003)

http://homepage.eircom.net/~jconsidi/brakelights.htm

DIY

[RUFF]

Originally posted by drj
Cruiserrg:

Screw Plug of wheel 750-1000 Nm

steering-respectively steering knuckle arm to steering knuckle 290 Nm

steering knuckle inside to axle center housing 240 Nm

Axle transmission housing 120 Nm M10 grade 10.9

Axle drive housing M 10 120 Nm

Hope this helps

drj

404axzlSpch

Are you sure these are the right settings as we started tightening the hubs on the MOGROVER today and the M10 studs snapped real easy.Long before we got to 88ft/pound??? :(

[samiyota]

hey does anyone have any info on a yota with 404 portal axles.
im thinking about the swap for next years calrocs season.
thanks

[coachgeo]

Originally posted by samiyota
hey does anyone have any info on a yota with 404 portal axles.
im thinking about the swap for next years calrocs season.
thanks

There is a whole thread on here about Mog axles in a Yota.

maybe try search using the parameters of "Toyata, Mog" in this forum