I'm pretty new to suzuki stuff, but i wanna build a comp rig with mostly sammi parts and have some questions. How well will samurai axles hold up under a 22-2400 pound rig on 33-35s? I've heard that 33s would be fine, but that 35s would kill em, but have also been told that with my driving style breakage would only be once in a while. I dont wanna hear everyone tellin me to just skip the sammi axles and go toy, I know all the reasons already and dont need to hear it, i can make up my own mind. I would like to run sammi axles because they are light and small and mostly cause i can get em for next to nothing and this is goin to be a severely low budget rig.

also what are your thoughts on my plan in general:

2 seats in tandem, chassis around 36" wide at widest point. 1.3l sammi motor and tranny, sammi tcase with GRSII gears. Sammi axles (ratio ??), triangulated 4 link or 3 link rear with coils, front coils with radius arm on one side and link on the other and a panhard, 33-35" tires.

Dallas

First thing I would do is search this page for buggy build ups, and zuk axles......There will be more information than you will know what to do with...

With your plans.....36" wide?? Sounds like you are running a single seater in the unlimited class! 48" wide is the minimum for mod stock.......And at 36" wide both seats and passangers must be very narrow!!!

Zuk axles will not hold up with that kind of weight competing......stock zuks weighd that much from the factory..

You want light weight get custom axles from spidertrax or trail tough.................Or since you are on a budget just do toys!


And if you are going to run that stock motor......You will need some more gearing than that.....Try a sumo case 6:1

Hey Dallas,

For Sammi axles and comp type harcore wheeling it's more like 31's. Start looking for some Toy axles or D44's. :D

The Toy's really aren that much heavier, can be found cheap if you scrounge, and are an easy swap. They also have lower gears in the diffs.

If you are determined to go with Sammi axles and plan on wheeling the snot out of it, I would seriously consider 32's max. Locked with 35's and flogging it, I can just about guarantee you will spend as much time fixing as wheeling.

Here is a pic of my buddy JC's rig with Sammi axles and 33's. Guess what's in those three PVC tubes on the back. :D

Jim

Originally posted by RudeZuk
With your plans.....36" wide?? Sounds like you are running a single seater in the unlimited class! 48" wide is the minimum for mod stock.......And at 36" wide both seats and passangers must be very narrow!!!




umm read the description again "2 seats in tandem" as in one behind the other, and yes it would fall into unlimited because of the width. As for the axle strength, I'm really tempted to just go ahead and use the sammi axles, i know a ton of guys running built up sammis that weigh much more than 2200 lbs and not breaking. I'm pretty good on parts, i very rarely break anything on the trail, and i'm really light on the throttle. Dont think i've ever had my 4.3 above 2500 rpm on the trail.

Dallas

another reason to stay away from sami axles is the narrow width.....toy's are 4-5" wider.....i think you would be ok with 33's...but not 35's.....just get really quick with changin axles:flipoff2:

Stay with 31's if you wanna make it to the finish line......trust me :flipoff2:

Originally posted by StinkBug

As for the axle strength, I'm really tempted to just go ahead and use the sammi axles, i know a ton of guys running built up sammis that weigh much more than 2200 lbs and not breaking. I'm pretty good on parts, i very rarely break anything on the trail, and i'm really light on the throttle. Dont think i've ever had my 4.3 above 2500 rpm on the trail.

Dallas

man, youre tryin to compete in the unlimited class. how you going to do that without using the throttle?? get real. sammy axles are like wimpy toyotas. if you dont have enough money for toyotas, sell your other rig and make it happen. you would probably DNF most comps with sammy axles. i think the main thing you are overlooking is that comp wheeling is totally different than normal wheeling. you will be forced to either drive your rig out of some brutal spots and get it on, or look like a sucka. much harder on axles, which should be solid. sammy pigs in a comp are not....my 2 cent

Does anybody make stronger birfs or shafts for Zuks? What if he just sent them in to Bobby Long to get em treatd like all the Toy axled guys?
But that would cost a bit, too. Probably cheaper to get Toy axles...rear axles are dirt cheap. There's one in the FS section for $75 or best with 3rd member.

Maybe Sammi front with treated birfs and Toy rear? What axle ratios are avail for the Sammi?

I heard he quit doing the Sammi Birfs...2nd hand info though.

i have an idea if you really wanna stay zuki.

-- WARNING: this idea has been pulled out of my ass, it has no provin track record and might not work --

take a set of 80's suburu turbo stationwagon CV's. Send them in to be frozen. stuff a sidekick 3rd in the front (theres a thread floating around talking about this). Take 2 long side samurai rear axles and have the non splined ends cut/resplined to fit the scobby CV's. have the stock front sammy axles cut/resplined to fit the CV and the hub (for the short sides). For the rear, take/make a sidekick hybrid and switch the sidegears out to ford 8.8 and throw some 31 splined goodness in there (you gotta modify some stuff do this, but i know that can be done.

will this cost more then toyotas, more then likely. But i think it would work pretty damn good.

Weight is not as critical to axle breakage as tire diameter.
Obviously, it has an impact.
Increased tire diameter increases the leverage on your axles in all directions.

Most axles/birfields would not break under direct torque.
Add a little deflection to it and BLANG! The deflection causes the axle to concentrate all the pressure to one spot on the shaft or birfield.

Summary: Big tires act as a big cheater pipe on your driveline.
Tire diameter is the key to driveline breakage and wear.

Listen to the wise, stay 31's max 32 unless you have a good supply of axles. The birfield rings only shift your weak point to the shaft. When a shaft breaks, good luck fishing it out, and hope it didn't tear the ring gear up.

I'm staying with little tires until I get all the parts together for a toy axle swap.

here's the thread, was recently brought up again but still not much fawkin infi, just opinions.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=77095

well I should probably say anything...ok i won't......Interesting concept ;-) I would think you'd need to drop at least 1k# for the axles to even think about holding up....

Who's got the rules for the east coast stuff !!!! I need to study up for my next project .... :-p

-yag

Well stink......Seems like everyone has the same opinion as me.....Stay away from zuk axles if you are going to run that size tire......

But build it, run it in comps and prove everyone wrong:flipoff2:

Originally posted by RudeZuk
Well stink......Seems like everyone has the same opinion as me.....Stay away from zuk axles if you are going to run that size tire......

But build it, run it in comps and prove everyone wrong:flipoff2:


or build it and break it every time you put it in 4wd :D

Originally posted by StinkBug



umm read the description again "2 seats in tandem" as in one behind the other, and yes it would fall into unlimited because of the width. As for the axle strength, I'm really tempted to just go ahead and use the sammi axles, i know a ton of guys running built up sammis that weigh much more than 2200 lbs and not breaking. I'm pretty good on parts, i very rarely break anything on the trail, and i'm really light on the throttle. Dont think i've ever had my 4.3 above 2500 rpm on the trail.

Dallas

Dallas,
If you think you might want some toy axles, I have a pair of 83's.

Bill PM me i may be interested. Thanks for the info guys, sorry if i sounded a bit short earlier, i just wanted to get some solid info on sammi axles. I already know a good amount about toys and their strength so i just wanted to learn more about the little stuff. I think i'm gonna go ahead and go toy even tho i think i could make sammi axles work ok at least for a while. Most of whats makin me go toy right away is the bolt patern, Everything i own is 6 lug, including the tow rig, and i'd rather not have to buy 2 sets of wheels when i eventually upgrade.

Dallas

If you could get the weight down to about 1400-1500 pounds the axles could run 33-35's ok, but it would cost you so much to get that light, plus you'd be busting your chassis all the time.

Or I suppose you could put a smaller motor in! Ha!
Ken

About 4-5 months ago I looked into the heat treating that Long offers for my samurai birfs. He was still doing it on a case by case scenario, and the best part is that he treated the entire axle, not just the birf and outer like he does with toy axles.

But, I ended up going the toy axle route instead. I agree with everyone else about going toy with 33" or larger tire. I wheeled for 5 years on 32" and smaller tires, never broke an axle. Went to 33's and coils, got a littel more hard core and I've broken 8 axles in the last year. Hence the new build-up with toy axles....

Let Bill hook you up with those toy axles...