Ok let's discuss heaters and insulation for our kahki shirt expedition trucks, or better yet our pickup trucks with a camper shell on the back before winter get here too deep.

I have a Mr heater portable buddy like this that I hang from the roof.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&q=mr+heater&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=8937078141481141652&sa=X&ei=mpe4TqTdH4OZiQKQ8fjDBA&ved=0CI4BEPICMAg

what are you using for heat? or don't you have anything? how did you insulate? or did you?

In my old truck (that I lived in for almost a year) I had this stuff along the roof and sides.

http://www.amazon.com/EcoFoil-Double-Bubble-Reflective-Insulation/dp/B003XFYIDY

i was thinking about hanging some wool army blankets along the window of my new shell to insulate.

I also am trying to decide between a futon on the bedliner or a set of drawers and a futon atop that.

ideas input?

Cat propane heater is a good start, its what I will be running. For the windows I will just cut down the bubble/foil winshield insulators, edge it with velcro and same with the window frame to make a somewhat air sealed and insulated area. The stuff you linked is about the same except I do not have to buy an entire roll :flipoff2:

The futon is going to feel like ass..well every one that I have slept on has. I would go and pick up a king sized foam bed topper and fold/cut it in half so its double thick :D then get either a zippered sheet or whatever to encase it. Put something else between the "matress" and the bed. I will be using 1" thick foil backed foam insulation panels from home depot. Buy a 4x8 sheet and cut to fit.

I use a futon pad on the bed liner with my stuff in action packers. I like it this way for several reasons:

-It's easily removable for hauling other stuff.
-I can get the box I need out and move it around ie. kitchen box to cooking area, recovery gear box, etc.
-My wife can use the boxes as a step to get into the back of the truck.
-I can sit up in the back of the truck. I would not be able to do this with drawers.
-It's a lot easier, cheaper, and weighs less than most drawer systems.

I heat with a buddy heater before bed and when I wake up, a good bag keeps me warm while I sleep. I don't have any insulation in the truck, and have never wanted it, but it does not get below 20 deg where I camp.

when I had my S-10 I used to use a twin air mattress for ultimate luxury! It fit snugly between the wheel wells and I could sit up without hitting my head. I think the 8+ inches of airspace provided pretty good insulation along with a good sleeping bag. I was never cold at any rate although the unlined fiberglass top and steel bed lost heat in a big hurry. I would lock my gear and food in the cab of the truck overnight to protect it from both 2 and 4 legged predators.

It got into the 20s where I used to camp but I never felt the need for a heater. This was in southern Utah, Southern Nevada and Northern Arizona mostly in the late summer and early fall. I did wake up to a good pile of snow in mid September one year near Navajo Lake in Utah though. The dog loved it...I was not really equipped for that trip. Froze my ass off as soon as I got away from the fire. :laughing:

-edit- On the two nights I spent in the snow I used an old trick my dad taught me. Grab some decent softball sized rocks and put them around the edge of your campfire. When it is bedtime, roll them into a heavy canvas bag (army surplus stores have them) or an old pair of blue jeans. Place them at the bottom of your sleeping bag and you have a nice warm bag for a few hours. Use lava rocks if you can find them. Avoid using rocks from a water source. Trapped water can turn your wilderness heater into a bomb.

actually air mattress provides horrible insulation. Good comfort but horrible insulation.

actually air mattress provides horrible insulation. Good comfort but horrible insulation.

I guess my sleeping bag was better than I thought.

actually air mattress provides horrible insulation. Good comfort but horrible insulation.

yeah, if the ground/whatever is cold it will suck the heat from your body

I've had an air mattress and didn't like it. I prefer a really firm mattress and loved the old futon I used to use at home.

I would want a futon that could roll up if need be so it doesn't take up the whole bed.

I agree with the heat on at night and mornig, but off while sleeping.

I have a Caravan Camper from Reno

http://www.caravancamper.com/

The 'reflectix' aluminum foil bubble wrap is pretty good stuff - I have window covers made with it that I stuff in all my windows in my camper when the temps start to drop. Takes up zero room, lightweight and works. I made them with two layers and used alumnium tape to stick it all together and give it a 'finished' look.

I also lined all the places I could get to to keep as much heat in as possible.

x1000000 on air mattresses being horrible, no one ever belives me - but I'm the one that wakes up warm sleeping on my closed cell foam pads...

As for heat -- I have a pop up camper so I have the luxury of a 16,000 btu forced air propane setup :flipoff2: With a thermostat :smokin:

Sell that caravan and get a FWC or ATC popup -- you'll be in heaven!

When I use to camp out of my truck I couldn't afford a heater to heat the space. So, I made the space small to use what heat I did have.

The first thing I had going for me was the truck was a T100 so the bed was really shallow. A tarp draped over the bed enclosed it (tension applied by bungie cords. Next, I layed down two good and heavy comforters over the factory plastic bed liner (which for what it is, it is not a bad insulator) After that I'd stack whatever things I brought with me around the bed to close in around me. Then I'd wrap up in a another comforter and head to sleep. It did good to thirty degrees or so and was pretty damn comfy.

I've decided that if I ever build me a camper the bed area will be closed in somehow. Not saying the rest of the camper won't be heated but if whatever heat source I have goes out I don't wanna be up the creek without a paddle.

ive slept in the back of my 4dr jk abunch of times in the winter i have no carpet and a soft top so its about the same as a truck bed with a cap. all i did was lay down 2 big conforters drink a hefty amount of alcohol wrap up in a fleece and pass the fuck out but boy was i cold as shit at 3 am when the alcohol wore off

i slept in the front seat of my samurai the same way, it wasn't bad, but it also wasnt that cold.

I wonder how long you could run a 12 volt heated blanket? Run the Propane heat before heading to bed and in the morning and run the heated blanket through the night.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roadpro-RPHB-110DB-12-Volt-Polar-Fleece-Heated-Blanket-/310313626317?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4840222acd

I run a very small Coleman SportCat propane heater all night with one of the windows open about an inch. Any less than that and you get the headache of death. Yes I know it is not safe to run all night.

I wonder how long you could run a 12 volt heated blanket? Run the Propane heat before heading to bed and in the morning and run the heated blanket through the night.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Roadpro-RPHB-110DB-12-Volt-Polar-Fleece-Heated-Blanket-/310313626317?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4840222acd

FWIW, I bought a 12v electric blanket for a trip last year. Its pretty much worthless. Used it in my truck one night in mid 30ish weather and you couldnt even tell it was on. Cant remember what brand it was right offhand.

I wonder how long you could run a 12 volt heated blanket?

I use a regular 120V blanket with an inverter running off 2 deep cycle batteries. Runs all night without issues on high. Not sure what the amp draw is on those though. The other thing is to put the blanket below you. Heat rises and they are much more efficient this way.........

hmmmmm I may have to run my aftermarket seat heaters (they unlike the 12v blanket work VERY well) and see how long it drops my main battery below 11v

They make mattress pap style heaters too. They go under the sheets on a regular bed and warm you up from underneath. The good thing about those is they don't have any lumps to bug you when your sleeping.

I agree with sentiment that you don't want top be up a creek if your heat source goes south. I had to use a portable propane stove with a big cast iron skillet on it to heat my tent one night..never again lol.

Throw one of those "hot hands" chemical warmers in the bottom of your sleeping bag. Problem fixed for less than you will find under your seats.

I've had an air mattress and didn't like it. I prefer a really firm mattress and loved the old futon I used to use at home.

I would want a futon that could roll up if need be so it doesn't take up the whole bed.
Think trying to roll-up a mattress or anything bigger than a backpacking-type sleeping pad is probably not a great use of space. Might want to think about mounting the mattress to a sleeping platform that you could flip upside-down, or tying the mattress up against one side wall of the camper (if it's tall enough), or even hoisting it up to the roof of the camper.

Throw one of those "hot hands" chemical warmers in the bottom of your sleeping bag. Problem fixed for less than you will find under your seats.

Even better, take a rock from next to the fire, wrap it in an old towel and throw it down there.........

Well if you are going that route take a cast iron skillet, or flat cast iron griddle, they hold heat well.

I used to have a Sparky aka "Zookdog" who slept at the bottom of my bag (no idea how he could breathe down there). He was 30Lbs Jack Russel permanent puppy heater. He's a bit old to go camping nowadays though.

the secret to sleeping on an air mattress in cold weather (cold ground, metal truck bed, etc) is to have some semblance of a thermal break.. I have done this for years by putting down an old comforter on top of the air mattress to smooth out the divots in it and then cover that with two cheap fleece/fuzzy blankets.

The fleece blankets dont get cold like sheets do and they keep you warmer than a flannel sheet IMO, but you could do this also. Then I just make the air bed like a normal bed with what ever you want for sheets, blankets, comforter, etc... All this stuff squishes down very well into a large rubbermaid box that should easily fit into any truck bed. I hate sleeping in a bag, but that would take even less space if you did that... Have used the "hot hands" and they work well.. always wanted to try the hot rock, but never bring anything to put it into.. Never used any kind of heater, but a good friend of mine has a buddy heater/catalytic heater that he uses and likes it a lot...

the secret to sleeping on an air mattress in cold weather (cold ground, metal truck bed, etc) is to have some semblance of a thermal break..
Exactly. Have been using an Exped (http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage_na.nsf) air-filled sleeping mat for the past few years and it's awesome. Has some type of insulation on the inside of it, so it's much better about retaining heat than some of the other air-filled sleeping mats. Talking backpacking stuff here, but would only be that much easier to apply to something that didn't have to be so compact and lightweight. Been thinking about this as I'm trying to figure out what type of bed I want to put in the back of my minivan (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1003067). Could use the mattress I made (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=12513558#post12513558) for mah deuce (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=955676), but an air mattress of some sort would take up a lot less space. And with an air compressor onboard, would hardly take any longer to inflate than to set up another type of bed arrangement. Really all comes down to use of space and comfort for me. Much more than insulation for this type of application.

Hot water just off of boil, poured into a Nalgene bottle, works great as a sleeping bag heater too. I've used it a few times on cold nights.

Forgot to mention radiant-heating (http://www.chilitechnology.com/). Put radiant heating in the floor (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=12509429#post12509429) in mah deuce, but it wouldn't be crazy to consider in smaller vehicles either. Am also using a ChiliPad (http://www.chilitechnology.com/Chili_Pad.html) to heat and cool the bed. Might consider adapting the concept to another heat source (engine coolant, electric/propane water-heater, etc.). Plumbing is easy, and could be anything from hardline to PEX tubing to flexible tubing sewn into a pad, etc.Just ordered a new heater control valve for my minivan with aux. ports for rear heaters that were used with some up fitter packages. Am going to use it to plumb a heat exchanger for hot water (showers, etc.) and probably for some type of radiant heating too. Have a couple of mil-surplus fuel-fired water heaters (http://www.steelsoldiers.com/deuce-modification-hot-rodding/40882-multi-fuel-heater-application.html) and might put one of those in there too, as an additional heat source. Would be a lot more fuel-efficient than running the vehicle's engine.

No additional heat in the back of my Dodge truck. The hard camper keeps the wind out just fine which is a HUGE bonus. I laid a 4x8 sheet of plywood on the floor that is covered in carpet. We keep an older 3" thick Futon mattress rolled up in the front of the bed. With it rolled up its not THAT big at all for a nice big warm mattress that will sleep two people comfortably.

I tried the air mattress thing. It was ok, but cold, and not durable.

I also have a 38" tall spare tire in the back almost vertical in the front drivers corner. It seems to be the best internal location for a large spare tire.

Ugh, bet that smells great. Had a spare tire mounted to the rollcage in the tub of my CJ7 for a while. Yuck. Can't imagine trying to sleep with it in there.

I like how tires smell. I think the roll up matress/futon is the way i want to go also.

I don't even notice the tire.....really.....they smell? It's usually overpowered by wet dog, wet gear, 2+ days without a shower, or too many camp fire beans.

my truck came with no headliner at all. used the sticky-back carpet squares from one of the diy box stores with a little more adhesive added from 3M spray cans. covered all the bare metal i could get too. works well for keeping unwanted sound out and more heat in during the cold winters here.
another item i've used are the old military surplus foam sleeping pads. they too glue on well and provide very good, light weight insulation on the inside of the topper.
for the bed, i just get a padded carpet remnant and cut it to fit. i cut it so it wraps up the bed side and then just trim it so it fits the wheel wells better. adds good padding as well as insulation from the cold metal bed. just pull it out and replace it with another when it gets too dirty.
just a few ideas.

I use a cheapie plastic tarp. It provides a vapor barrier between the ground or truck bed etc. Then an Insulite foam pad under my sleeping bag. Then pull the tarp over the top of your bag to trap your body heat. I used this a lot with my son doing all sorts of camping in the fall, winter and spring when he was in the Boy Scouts. I would wear a stocking cap. You would be surprised how much heat you lose from your head. Others would be freezing their buns off listening to me snoring and comfy in my tent or truck shell.

http://www.amazon.com/Adult-Studio-28-Inch-Sleeper-Chair/dp/B000F4VEM4/ref=pd_sim_hg_1

One of these would also fit snuggly between the wheel arches of a truck. Looks like it would take up quite a bit of space even folded up. A bit of a trade off but probably very comfortable and would retain heat well.

i have 50 by 78 inches to work with if I don't add drawers.

so I need a futon that is about that size, or some foldable mattress.

Seriously look into swags. They are how sleeping bags should have been made.

They start with a simple Cover, bag, mat, and go all the way up to mini tent status. They roll up like a sleeping bag, but have the mat and canvas ground tarp/top cover integrated.

http://www.offroadexplorer.com/Products/Swag_Review.html

http://www.offroadexplorer.com/Products/Images/SwagPic.jpg

i have a swag.

it is great, for one person.

I don't need the whole tent, just the mattress.

if i could get a full mattress dimensions, 53 x 74 I think it would be perfect.

Now that I'm thinking about this, I wonder how hard it would be to use a tough fabric rectangle cut to fit inside the bed rails but suspend it at all four corners like some sort of trampoline/hammock hybrid. You could control firmness with tension and you'd have plenty of airspace between you and the cold steel bed below.

Effectively using the bedrails as a cot frame. When morning rolls round, you unhook it from the stake pockets and roll the thing up into a compact little roll that could be stashed almost anywhere.
Would also have the benefit of being big enough for two.

the truck-hamock

that's a good idea, but with two people you would roll to the middle.
unless you also attached it below the window and to the middle of the tailgate.

hmmmm

well damnit, now I need a truck to go try this out.
I should go find someone to sew together a prototype and see if there is a market for this.

I was going to make two 'cot' hammock things that rolled up out of the way against the side rails of the bed. A pocket at the front of the bed for a tube to sit in. Then at the rear a removeable spreader that was about 1' forward of the tailgate with another pocket for the cot side tube to fit into.

Cots are cold unless you insulate the bottom of them.

We like sleeping basically on the 'floor' of the bed so we have enough head room to sit up and move around.

I did a sleeping platform at one time and it used up too much head room.

I did a sleeping platform at one time and it used up too much head room.

my thoughts exactly.

Has anyone had a heated blanket that actually works? I had one which I tried out luckily at home one day and it didn't do shit but barely get the corner warm. Also it had the option of leaving the timer for 30mins or 45min wtf. It probobly was in the 40's that day too.

I used to use a piece of 3/4 in thick foam sheathing as insulation then a foam pad on top of it. Radiated the heat back up and kept me nice and warm while winter camping in PA.

Like I said my woman bought a nice under the sheet warmer blanket. it went in between the bottom sheet and the mattress. That damned thing would roast you out. It had controls for each side.. Mine never left a "2" out of ten, even when the heat was off in the winter.

If you have separate thermostats for each room, a guy could turn down the heat everywhere except where you gave running water. They were warm enough we didn't need heat anywhere else, and it gets fucking'a cold here.

If I ha my choice I would run one of those off a deep cycle and an inverter.

When the wife and I got together she had a down comforter (nice high dollar one) and a fleece blanket under the microfiber comforter cover. After I spent one night sleeping under that stuff, I gave her a blank check when it comes to bedding. something about down keeps you warm in winter and cold in summer.

I get to take the old down comforters camping, and they last about two seasons. I absolutely love 'em, either for over my sleeping bag, or taking a nap on after a long trail run.

I know it would cost allot to outfit with a deep cycle, under the sheet electric bed warmer,and inverter, but if you are serious about being comfortable get one for inside you sleeping bag ad sleep on top of it. You will NOT get cold. With the controls you won;t get overheated either. (unless you turn it on high in a drunken stupor and wake up googly eyed and dehydrated.

I've seen several cool truck bed/bed sytems, i think the best for a bigger truck bed like fred's is a shelf across the front of the truck bed with the bed on top of it. Sleep across the truck and leave a full height space at the back of the "cabin" space for more headroom. This gets you storage space across the front (not easily reached from the outside though) and a bed platform that can stay put during the day and just have some bags and portable gear thrown on it if need be. Full height space at the rear for dressing or whatever. I might not sleep great across a bed but shorter folks would have it made.
My cabover has a piece of pretty stiff foam plus a hide-a-bed cushion for the bed. I like it better than home. I just run the heater in it before sleep and on wakeup, otherwise it bugs me cycling on and off. Honestly I'm usually just glad to be inside. I've spent a lot of nights on the ground in a sleeping bag on a thermarest and the biggest problem I have is my nose getting cold. I typically sleep in a hat and have started using a balaclava for the nose issue.
I've spent a couple -10 or colder nights in the back of my K5 with a thermarest and good sleeping bag and survival was never an issue. Comfort could have been better but once again, I was happy to be inside. It's a truck not a backpack! Carry enough covers to stay warm!

Yea I was already planning on setting up an auxilary deep cell and already have a 400w inverter lalying around so i might check out those under sheet blankets. I was also planning on getting a 1500w or higher inverter to run cooking ware which pull a lot of amps. (1000+watts) Not sure how many watts an AC blanket would create.

I usually use a good comforter under a sleeping bag and just wrap up in a really thick fleece style blanket. Sleep like a baby. I haven't camped in less than about 25-30 temps. That's my limit. A buddy takes his futon mattress and sticks it in the back of his 4 door jeep. Says he sleeps well too. I carry to much stuff in mine spare, tools, other Misc stuff.

It's funny though this is the biggest reason I got a JKU was so the wife and I could camp in the back, now I just carry more stuff!

The Ranger I just picked up has a shell, and a bud rug in the back. Plan to buy some more foam for a little thicker pad, and hope that keeps it warm.

I dont see why it wouldnt, the bed rug covers all the way up to the bed rails.

Probaby the biggest reason I bought the truck lol!

We have a slide in camper, but it felt to heavy for even our 97 f350 single rear wheel truck that we sold. Its is homemade and heavy, but really nice, and damn solid. feels like being in a boat on the inside, very nice finish work done. It has a generator, heater, ac all the fun stuff, but no truck to pull it, although it is on a dual axle trailer now.

so back to the ol Ranger for now lol

I was thinking of getting 5 or 10 wool military blankets, grommet and zip-tying each corner together into a pile for a cheap, warm futon style mattress. then just roll it up and strap it to the roof of the camper shell when not in use.