I started this thread as a continuation of a thread that originated in the Mercedes Forum. The direction of the thread, I felt, warranted that it be moved to a more appropriate section of PBB, a.k.a. the Jeep section. So here's some of pics that I started out with there, and I'll try to base all my buildup out of this thread so that it will be easy to follow along over the coming months. I will try to answer any questions to the best of my knowledge.
Cheers,
Travis

Mog axles. Front steer/rear non-steer.

Huge drums

And massive pinions.

Tire test fit 1.

Sure those Mogs are going to be able handle 44s?

And tire test fit 2.

Originally posted by Jason R
Sure those Mogs are going to be able handle 44s? Quite easily. Ryeguy on here went to TTC '02 and beat the snot out of his with 44's. Unimogs are also about 8.000lbs in some configurations. Couple that with 37-39" tires and gearing that can reach 110:1 in stock form and I think they'll stand up to my 5500lb XJ. I think the smallest shaft diameter on any one axle (they are all different) is around 1.5", and nearing 1.75" in other places. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
Travis

unimogs come with tires ranging from 37" on the small end up to 49" depending on the model. 37" to 44" are the norm on 404 mogs which these axles are from.

Forget the axles handling the 44's, will the XJ unibody hold up to the weight of those tires & axles?

Are you going to reinforce the unibody to handle the extra stress the tires/axles will add?

How long are those pinions? They look LOOOOONNNG:D

Good luck with the project and keep us posted:beer:

Dang :eek: What are the rest of the plans for the XJ?

Originally posted by 1990JeepXJ
Tire test fit 1.


What's up w/ the :rainbow: French flag grill??
:flipoff2:




Cool project... I wanna see it finished.

hmmmmm boggers and mogggggss:D

anyhow what about motor tranny tcase , your going all out on rubber and axles what about the rest plz tell

interesting position for the tie rod, do u plan on moving it or will it stay bellow the axle, i know you will have an ass load of clearance with 44's and mogs but that will be the lowest part of the rig, will you keep the drums or convert to disc, just a thought:confused:

Nice wheel chock.

Wow. So many questions. O.K. here goes.

YJ4RoX: XJ unibodies are quite rigid. There was a test done somewhere that compared it to a Chevy 1 ton truck. End to end, if you put twisting forces on the frame horns at the f/r of each of these vehicles, the XJ unibody has more torsional rigidity than said 1 ton truck. Yes, there will be a "subframe" of some sort that all the suspension links will tie into, distributing forces more evenly into the unibody. And Mog axles are actually barely heavier than D60's. I've seen many XJ's with D60's so I'm not worried about it. Pinion length is about 19.75" from axle centerline to pinion flange.

Kilby: It's not french. I looked into that before I painted it. French has these colors, just backwards. All American baby! Besides, the French are cool, right? :flipoff2:

das_jeepinator: I'll be keeping the stock 4.0/AW4 until one of them dies. Then I'll swap in either GM v8/700R4 or Jeep V8/545RFE. Leaning towards the latter for now. T-case will be Dodge 203/Ford 205 doubler.

YJ_Swamper: Tie rod will stay put until I have problems. I think the only other choice would be in front of the axle, and that would subject it to more potential damage. It's really not "under" the axle that much. Might just be the angle of the pic. Drum brakes will stay for now. $$ is tight enough, so they will due until the first brake change. They stopped 8000lbs with 110:1 gearing, they'll do fine for my 5500lbs and 85:1 gears. The pic really doesn't do them justice. The bolt circle alone is over 8", use that to imagine the size of these things. I measured them once, seems like they were around 15" w/o the lip towards the back. My hummer rims will barely clear with 3" BS.

I hope I've answered all questions well. I'll be happy to anwer more. Estimated completion date of spring 2003.
Travis

XJ running around here with mog axles and Michelin XMLs. Say it once in Dresser. He was busted on top of a hill and I wa stoo lazy to get a good look, but it was fawking huge tall!

Should be a interesting project.

Originally posted by 1990JeepXJ

YJ4RoX: XJ unibodies are quite rigid. There was a test done somewhere that compared it to a Chevy 1 ton truck. End to end, if you put twisting forces on the frame horns at the f/r of each of these vehicles, the XJ unibody has more torsional rigidity than said 1 ton truck. Yes, there will be a "subframe" of some sort that all the suspension links will tie into, distributing forces more evenly into the unibody. And Mog axles are actually barely heavier than D60's. I've seen many XJ's with D60's so I'm not worried about it. Pinion length is about 19.75" from axle centerline to pinion flange.



A friend of mine that I wheel with has an Long Arm XJ on 35"s, D44, 8.8 etc. etc. After only a couple of years hes fixed many cracks in his unibody and this winter hes swapping another unibody onto his running gear. That said I would reinforce the hell out of yours as you will 100x as much stress on it than he does.

Originally posted by 1990JeepXJ

Kilby: It's not french. I looked into that before I painted it. French has these colors, just backwards. All American baby! Besides, the French are cool, right? :flipoff2:

Travis



Aah... yes. BUT! What if I were to view the grill from my REAR VIEW MIRROR!? Dahnt-dahnt-daaaaaah!

I'm just razzin'. :D

I may just be ignorant, but what gear ratio do you have in those mogs? I'm really interested in seeing how that setup does w/ a stock drivetrain.

Originally posted by Jason R A friend of mine that I wheel with has an Long Arm XJ on 35"s, D44, 8.8 etc. etc. After only a couple of years hes fixed many cracks in his unibody and this winter hes swapping another unibody onto his running gear. That said I would reinforce the hell out of yours as you will 100x as much stress on it than he does.Yes. It would for sure need some reinforcements around key points. My point about the comparison to a Chevy 1 ton was just to illustrate the overall stiffness and put the unibody on par with other rigs. Every vehicle that's used in extreme situations is going to need to be strengthened somewhere. TJ's in the rear trackbar mount at the frame. Chevy's at the steering box mount. CJ's at the leaf spring mounts. Stock suspension mounts on the frame end of the XJ 5-links. I'm hoping the subframe idea will cure this last one.
Travis

Originally posted by Kilby Aah... yes. BUT! What if I were to view the grill from my REAR VIEW MIRROR!? Dahnt-dahnt-daaaaaah!

I'm just razzin'. :D

I may just be ignorant, but what gear ratio do you have in those mogs? I'm really interested in seeing how that setup does w/ a stock drivetrain. Touche on the rear view mirror. As far as gearing. 3.54 pigs with 2.13 hubs for 7.56 overall.
Travis

Originally posted by 1990JeepXJ
Touche on the rear view mirror. As far as gearing. 3.54 pigs with 2.13 hubs for 7.56 overall.
Travis

You XJ guys are NOT making it easy on me! ;)

I've got my old '88 4.0 sittin' at my parents' place just waiting to be... uuuh...
pirated:D

I just ain't got enough time or money for TWO projects. :beer:

A friend of mine that I wheel with has an Long Arm XJ on 35"s, D44, 8.8 etc. etc. After only a couple of years hes fixed many cracks in his unibody and this winter hes swapping another unibody onto his running gear. That said I would reinforce the hell out of yours as you will 100x as much stress on it than he does.

Hey, I resemble that remark!

Actually, it's more like 8 years of hardcore wheeling, and maybe one more. Since I'm trying to finish the buggy for next years comps, I'm not going to be able to switch running gear and cage the new rig this winter.

1990jeepxj: I think the MOST effective thing you can do to prevent cracks is to put a good cage in. I won't wheel my new XJ until I have time to put a cage in it!

Andy

Just the switch from 36s to 39.5s,I noticed alot more unsprung weight induced flex in the unibody or whats left of it.I've got a super burl cage ,with lots of triangulation, tied into alot of 1/4"plate and the xtra weight hanging off the ends of the axle is definetly noticable.You are asking alot of yer chassis to support your planned build up,but hey let 'er rip.:)

Curious to why your questioning the streangth of a Klune:confused:


this is from the website.

"At the time of this writing, we have been building Extreme Underdrive units for three years. That's lots of rock-miles. And to date, we have never had a reported failure. And who do you think they would call first? If you know anybody with a broken Klune-V Extreme Underdrive, we have a replacement waiting for him.

Klune-V stands behind its product with a full two-year warranty: If it breaks, we'll fix it or replace it! You might ask, "Well, what good does that do me miles from nowhere with a busted gearbox?" Not much. There's always someone who can break anything. But if our box wasn't pretty tough we would be broke by now with such a policy. "

I have only heard of one person saying that they broke one. that was Frog on here. For some reason I doubt him, dont know why. If he has he should contact them saying that its false and they need to change their website :flipoff2: Anyway I am sure lots of BB guys are running the klune. Havent heard of any problems myself. Anything can be broken just curious why you would think the klune is weaker then the 203 or 205. :flipoff2:

Full interior cage will be fabbed in at the same time as the Suspension. If I can work it, I'd like to somehow tie the suspension mounts into the cage.
Klune/205 vs 203/205. Well, it basically comes down to two things. First, look at Klune's specs and find the torque capacity. The David box has an input torque capacity of 550 lb/ft in low range. Well I thought this was a little low so I called Luke Clark at Klune Industries. He did verify that this is the torque capacity at the input of the box, not engine torque. A meager Wrangler 4 cyl., let's say 150 lb/ft, and AX-15, 3.83 first, would excede the max with 574.5 lb/ft. Now I know that in the real world Klune's have survived much harsher punishment. Enter reason #2 for using the 203/205. Cost. I'm a cheap a$$ and can save $800 by going with the doubler. And it's stronger to boot. Cool!
Travis

What are you plans for the suspension?

Airbags, roughly 14" travel, with 15" travel Rancho shocks. Haven't decided yet if I want to mess with the adjustable 99036 or non-adjustable 5036. Already going to have too many knobs and levers. Throw in a couple widjits and bells and whistles, well you get the idea.
Travis

Nice project idea. As stated in the previous post, you will have to brace the body with a cage and subframe. The unibody is very stiff and tends to crack since it doesn't flex much. How do you plan on cutting the front fenders for clearance?

Here is a pic of how far I had to cut my fenders for 38's but it does allow then to turn lock to lock at full compression.

http://us.f1.yahoofs.com/users/895a0d7f/bc/My+Photos/Pa300005.jpg?bcB3OC.AoPLHulrL

Well if you want, i'll take your setup with some RS9K incab on the fly controll, and i'll let you know how it rides ;)

:flipoff2:

COME AWN! MO PICS! MORE DETAILS!


-SMART ASS

Originally posted by 1990JeepXJ
Airbags, roughly 14" travel, with 15" travel Rancho shocks. Haven't decided yet if I want to mess with the adjustable 99036 or non-adjustable 5036. Already going to have too many knobs and levers. Throw in a couple widjits and bells and whistles, well you get the idea.
Travis

Travis, i dunno if this has already been covered yet, but will you be doing an Exo for the XJ?
And do you have a rough estimate as to the total weight of the rig upon completion?
And with the exo (if you're doing one) how tall is it going to be?
And will you have to build a new garage for it when you're finished? :D

44's are soooooo yesterday :flipoff2:

Originally posted by Rock Toy
44's are soooooo yesterday :flipoff2:

Not on a XJ.

Originally posted by The Adam Blaster
...will you be doing an Exo for the XJ?...
...a rough estimate as to the total weight of the rig upon completion?...
...how tall is it going to be?...
...will you have to build a new garage for it when you're finished?...Prefer no exo cage. Don't want any more edges to snag on obstacles.
Weight will be an estimated 5000-5500lbs. About a 55/45 f/r bias.
Estimated 7' tall.
No garage. Leaving it on the trailer and parking it at the local R.V. storage place for $60/month.
No pics yet. The place I had to work on it is gone. I have to move it. Anybody else have some spare room?
Thanks for all the replies.
Travis

How long until you are going to be finished? I want to see this in action at Browns Camp.

Just curious - what trails/type of wheeling are you building this for?

Jeff

My XJ weighs 5000lbs and that was with the 44 in the front. Now it has the 60 and 39.5 TSL's. I am scared to weigh it now. Granted that I have a Full EXO, Complete subframe, Rock rails that go all the way under the frame. But by the time you add all this to yours I will bet that it will way closer to 6000 to 6500lbs. Also I think that if you enforce it right than the uni body will hold up fine. I have wheeled mine HARD for 4 years with not one crack. Another note on the EXO is that it will allow you to slide along things instead of them peirceing the body and hanging you up. I hit my upper portion every time we wheel wether it be on trees, rocks, Small animals or what ever. Also on 37's I was 6'2 tall on the 39.5's I am 6'8 tall. Just some stuff to think about. I look forward to seeing some pics.

Nick

Originally posted by XtremeEngineering
Also on 37's I was 6'2 tall on the 39.5's I am 6'8 tall. Just some stuff to think about. I look forward to seeing some pics.

Nick


Xtreme....
I'm really puzzled by this statement you made.
Your new tires are only 2.5 inches taller than the old ones, but you're saying that you gained 6" of lift, when (with quick math) you should really have only gained 1.25" more over the 37's.

Are the 37's undersized for what they claim?
Are the 39.5's oversized?
Did you do anything more to get the extra lift?

Sorry about that I should have been more clear. The 37 boggers are very small for there size. The 39.5's are a true 4.5 inches taller mounted on the same wheels. I also lifted the jeep 1.5" more to help clear the tires.

Nick

Hey 1990JeepXJ, we need some updates on this thing!!!
(Did you find another place to work on it yet?)

Haven't found anywhere else to work on it yet. Any offers? Need it soon 'cuz it has to go in for the suspension work at the end of the month.
Truck and trailer are being worked on now. 7000lb trailer only has a 5000lb coupler on it. Also needs a breakaway kit and new jack. I'll do the jack and breakaway kit, but the coupler is going to be done for me. ALWAYS have the safety items done by a professional. That's only my opinion, of course. Truck is getting the old hitch cut off (it was welded on) and having a new hitch fabbed in it's place.
As far as the Jeep. I'm not just sitting idle on it. Custom center and backspace wheels are ordered and paid for. I hope they arrive soon.
Also looking for a transfer case. Was going Klune to NP205. Then changed it to 203/205 doubler. Now looking at a couple other options. You'll have to wait. :flipoff2: I can't give away all my secrets. I'll tell you this. Similar to the Mog axles, NO ONE has ever done this before. :cool:
Until we meet again :vader2:
Travis :smokin:

Well gosh dang it and sum of a biotch! I did a little work on the POS this weekend. Bottomline, I got the 231 case out just to verify the spline count before I ordered a Klune. Low and behold it was 21 spline! Darn it all to heck!
Well now that I'm done ranting and raving, what suggestions does everyone have. I was just gonna add an engine and tranny swap to the mix, but I don't think I have the funds for that.
This may be a temporary solution, but I was thinking about slapping a short shaft kit on there and let it go until it breaks. Might at least get a year out of it and then the engine/tranny/t-case would all come out at the same time. Just a thought. Waddayathink?
Travis

i got a question about the bolt pattern on the 404's...

1990JeepXJ, what is the length from far stud to far stud on the bolt patern?

Not sure what your question is. Kinda worded funny. The bolt pattern is metric, 6x205mm. It works out to 6x8-1/16" in U.S. SAE. The studs are also metric at 18mm, but the U.S. SAE equivalent is 11/16". I order my wheels with the bolt pattern at 6x8-1/16" and 3/4" holes for the bolts. The wheels are lug centric, not hub centric. So I had a 45* bevel added to the bolt holes. The hole for the hub center I designed to be big at 6-3/8", but the actual hub is metric at 160mm, or 6-5/16". Hope this helps.
Travis

with the mog 404's, do you have to run a 16.5" rim?, or can you get away with a 15"?

I don't think a 15" rim will fit. The axles are not here now, but when I see them this weekend I can take one of my 15" spares over there and try them on. I know for sure that the main part of the drum is 14.5" accross it's diameter. Go to the second pic in this post and take a look. From the wheel mounting face look at the drum diameter back to 3" backspacing. The drum is 14.5" accross that "main" part of the drum. After that it increases drastically forming that "lip" that you see at the rear of the drum. This "lip" is 1" tall all the way around making the rear part of the drum 16.5" in diameter. For now I'd say that if you are gonna run 15" rims, you'd have to keep the backspacing at 2.5" max. Makes for a pretty unstable wheel tire combo. I'll test fit a rim this weekend.
Travis

Just run the 231 until it blows. Most u-pull it yards sell them for like $50 so you could replace a couple before it started to add up.

I'm not sure on the internals of the AW4 but is it possible to swap th output to something beefier? (like swapping the 231 input to 23 spline)

Originally posted by 1990JeepXJ
I don't think a 15" rim will fit. The axles are not here now, but when I see them this weekend I can take one of my 15" spares over there and try them on. I know for sure that the main part of the drum is 14.5" accross it's diameter. Go to the second pic in this post and take a look. From the wheel mounting face look at the drum diameter back to 3" backspacing. The drum is 14.5" accross that "main" part of the drum. After that it increases drastically forming that "lip" that you see at the rear of the drum. This "lip" is 1" tall all the way around making the rear part of the drum 16.5" in diameter. For now I'd say that if you are gonna run 15" rims, you'd have to keep the backspacing at 2.5" max. Makes for a pretty unstable wheel tire combo. I'll test fit a rim this weekend.
Travis

cool, thanx dude

1990JeepXj- what did you do about the pinion yoke??? did you convert them to sumpthin, or where you able to keep them stock??

Well there is no pinion yoke on stock Unimogs. They use the torque tube that must be removed. In it's place goes a flange that a yoke will bolt up to, kinda like toyota t-cases. The flange is drilled for a 1310 yoke, but I'm using a flange yoke that has the same bolt pattern as a 1410 flange yoke so that I can reuse the pinion flange later when I step up to a stronger drivetrain.
Travis

Where can i find the flange that replaces the torque tube? how much??

Your going to run the Klune now? What changed your mind?

FYI their is a place on walker and ~170ish in beaverton called waterhouse RV storage. They charge me $30 a month to store my camper. I am sure it would be the same amout for you, as they charge by space.

That is a great project! good luck!

I might consider doing that with my 89...itll be REAL slow going if I did, id have to find mog axles...there is a guy that lives by me that has 3 unimogs in his yard...hehehe

Any updates on this old project!

Any progress?

:D

i think its time for some more pics.

Must sell my axles and tires for project Captain American Lowrider. It never really got off the ground. The tires sat in the garage and the axles have been covered in the back of my truck for months now. So here's the scoop:

These axles are the best for wheelin'. Unimog 404 portal axles with killer low gears. 3.54 in the diff and 2.13 in the portal equals 7.56 combined axle ratio! You won't need those 4:1 kits now, that'll save you $1000. Now consider that these have selectable cable lockers. Go from open diffs for tight turns to fully locked to conquer that steep uphill climb, all with the pull of a lever. Already has the gears and the lockers so you'll save at least $2000, not needing to buy selectable lockers, gears, or pay for expensive labor. Now here's the kicker. Ground clearance that I like to measure in FEET! Forget about shaving 1/2" off the bottom of that wimpy Dana axle. Go for the gusto and gain 6" on average over stock axles. Expect around 1.5' under the pumpkin with 40+ tires, which I also have for sale.

4 brand new 44" Boggers for 16.5 rims. I was gonna have custom hummer rims built to mount these monster tires. The hummer rims will beadlock the outside AND the inside of the tire solidly to the wheel. Also, there's the option of runflat or no runflat, and the fact that hummer rims are currently the ONLY DOT approved beadlocks available. Add to that the biggest, most knarly DOT approved tires from any manufaturer, and your set for unstopable trail action.

These axles and tires were never used. I was going to sling them under my Jeep, but other things came up. The axles are completely rebuilt. Every seal, bearing, and gear was gone thru to ensure that I would have absolutely no problems with them. These are NOT simply used axles. They are completely ready for your rig. I am into them for $2500. That is a major savings over conventional axles and all the parts and work that has to be put into them.

The tires are brand new and in excellent condition. I even had one sent back because of defect on the inside after I inspected them thouroughly. All tires still have little nubbies on them and sharp, crisp edges. I got a great deal on them and I'm into them for $1800. This is a great price. Any place you call may quote you around $430 each, but there's an F.E.T. (Federeal Excise Tax) on them, plus shipping. Don't be fooled into thinking you can just avoid shipping by picking them up locally. Many places charge you an inbound freight fee to get them there.

So this is a no bullshit sale. I'm not a dealer or business. I just want back what I've got into them.
$2500: Mog 404 front and rear axle set.
$1800: 4 brand new 44" Boggers for 16.5 rim.
Thanks for your interest,
Travis :(

UPDATE 12/14/03: AXLES SOLD $2500
STILL HAVE 4 BRAND NEW 44" BOGGERS $1800

Dang that sucks! I wanted to see a XJ with mogs! :(

Damn bro, that really bums me out. I was really looking forward to seeing that monster. Oh well, good with selling the stuff.

ttt :flipoff2:

Quiter!!! That would have been worthy of the Top Truck CHallenge!!! Too Bad:flipoff: