What is everyone doing for suspension on their rigs these days? I used to have a 1970 3/4 ton. I lifted it by making 11 inch long shackles in the front (without shackle reversal) and 7 inch tall blocks in the rear. Then I made custom leaf packs that were 14 leaves thick!! :eek: The truck rode like shit, but man did it ever twist up. Back then I was running 38 inch Gumbos and had the biggest truck around..... I was a punk kid and loved every minute of it. :D

Anyway, these days I'm running Rancho 44044's in the front, and 1/4 elliptic in the rear.. but I'm about to change the rear to coilover. I also run 2inch Sway-a-Way emulsions shocks on all 4 corners.

I found if you move the rear springs up front, they are the same length from the front eye to the center pin.. just 4" longer out back. I took the top 3 leafs from a plymouth duster (same size as the dodge rears, but with pads inbetween the leafs) the 4th leaf from the pickup pack, and 3 lower leafs from wrangler leafs. I have them sitting waiting to go on one of these days. Also, in the rear, i run 4" hard ride skyjackers, with the bottom leaf removed and the factory block. At droop, it hits the hanger, and i am pretty sure it will hit on compression too.. but the plan is to brace the bottom of the spring mount, and cut it out so i get MUCH more droop out of the suspension. Same thing was done on hazel's ramcharger in petersons 4 wheel.

Garrett

all that sounds trick but i went with 5in bds and a sawzall and bashed the shit out of it.

How do you like the BDS suspension? I have been thinking of scraping the custom suspension and putting one on.

Garrett

front:
6" superlift springs(minus the bottom leaf)
6" long shackle(2"longer than stock)
4- 5010 rancho shocks on custom mounts

rear:
63" GM 3/4 ton rear springs(as is)
relocated springs under the frame(ditched the factory blocks)
10-1/2" long rear shackle(mounted high through the frame)
2- 9012 rancho shocks(stock location on top, near the spring pad on the top of the axle)

front and rear ladder bar style traction bars are under way(with shackle on the frame end). another mod i'm gonna make is a panhard rod for better turn in. i've found you lose some turning radius when the springs and shackles flex over from turning with crossover steering. i'll have better pics of it tonight :D

rear

shackle mount

rear

.....and i know my junk is greasy and rusty. i wouldn't have it any other way:flipoff2:

for me the bds is great . the 5in is what i went with it took us about 5 hours and have bashed it ever seenes.

Originally posted by FULLSIZE
i've found you lose some turning radius when the springs and shackles flex over from turning with crossover steering. i'll have better pics of it tonight :D

i hear ya about the axle shifting side to side, longer shackles make i worse also (like mine)........anyway i was thinking about making a "track bar" myself to keep the axle center left/right also BUT i made a hydraulic assist ram setup to make it easier to turn the tires/wheel and wouldn't ya know it all but stopped the axle left/right shifting also.....

if your thinking hyd. assist, i'd do it before the trackbar.....(they help road manners, but definitly limit suspension travel.........

fyi, love the pics of your truck.........it's going to be a beast.....

Well, I got an essentially free set of 6" GM front springs (mfgr unknown) and couldn't pass them up. Made long shackles of 3/8" plate with large greasable bolts like PCJTPW posted pics of, and tossed the shims from the bottoms of the springs because they prevented the top plate from fitting over the studs. Got a set of tuff-country 6" springs for the rear with 4 shocks from ORD. Plan to weld up new rear shackle mounts for a flip, lose the factory blocks, and relocate the shock mounts all the way around since they limit droop now. So do the e-brake cables; two solutions I'm weighing are to put discs on the 70 that I got for it with one of Jesse's disc brakes on the back of the doubler, the other possible solution is to graft longer cables into the system. Major considerations driving this phase are that it's a pickup and we're finishing a house; we'll be hauling stuff including landscaping supplies by the ton for a little while, so it needs to retain a good bit of weight capacity and on-road manners until that's done, and this looked like the cheapest, easiest and fastest way to get some reasonable amount of lift to clear some bigger tires and allow me to wheel a little after selling my CJ-5. One major disadvantage to this front setup is there's only about an inch of splines left engaged on the front driveshaft, and the angle is great enough that I had to clearance the yoke on the front pinion and cut the stops out of the CV with a die grinder to use it. It worked for about 1000 miles, but now the CV joint is shot and Jess will be building a new long-spline front shaft with a 1350 for me soon to go with the 205.

Now the next phase is not completely thought out, but the goal is to integrate a pretty clean and straight '73 crew cab (cab only) given to me with title into something that'll get my wife and kids on the trail (including the road to the trail) with all the attendant stuff, maybe even some :beer:. Since a full cage will be a primary consideration it isn't clear whether it'll be better to transplant this cab onto the '77 frame, or build an exo around the cab with a new box-tube frame and license it separately (which would keep the '77 intact for moderate wheeling, hauling, as a daily driver etc). The latter will require finding a new engine, transmission, several tcases, and probably another front 60, but it's what I'd prefer to do at this time. Another possibility would be to pick up another truck that has been rolled and the cab smashed in (if anyone sees any great deals on such a thing please let me know). Suspension for this one depends on whether it goes onto a factory frame, or one that gets built; which in turn depends on whether I find an engine/trans/tcase/etc separately, in a rolled vehicle, or roll the '77 first. If I build a new frame/cage I'm thinking links and coils at this stage, but that might change. If it goes onto a factory frame a lot will depend on what hardware is there and reuseable, and what sort of feedback comes from Fullsize and PJCTPW in the meantime on how their stuff works. Thoughts, suggestions?

Ok,

Losing the rear blocks is a huge plus in my book. I just finished my hybrid rear packs this past weekend. Part 57" ford Part 52" rear Dodge factory. With a 2" longer shackle and my shackle flip (2"), I have an all spring lift that is about 5 1/2 inches with 360 pounds of weight on back (simulating spare 44 and 30 gals of gas.)

Rear shackle flips are great and really don't have any disadvantages. Shocks are imporant for sure. I don't run any and on the highway I get a little bounce in the rear from unbalanced 44's.

On the Dana 70 I would probably lose the drums, put on discs, and get an e-brake set up from Jesse if you really need an e-brake. I'm running discs on my 14B and will have a driveline brake from Jesse on the 205. This is only because we have state inspections in Texas and without a parking brake that holds the veh while it is in drive you fail inspection. I'm not a fan of drum brakes. They're more difficult to work on and tend to get caked up with mud too easily. I don't think the discs stop any better under normal conditions though. Putting on longer parking brake cables would take a little work and they tend to get hung up on stuff on the trail. I actually pulled one out of a D-60 wheeling once but it never worked anyway.

Building a new box frame would take A LOT of work. I know how much a pain it's been just to move my drivetrain around in my original frame and if I build a tube vehicle it will probably be a buggy. The factory frame would probably be fine for most wheeling. I'm reinforcing mine with extra crossmembers and tying the cage to the frame to stiffen it up a bit. I would stick with the original frame if it were me. If you have one vehicle versus 2 there will be less: 1. Insurance, 2. Upkeep, 3. Registration 4. etc.

On the topic of suspension some custom Alcans or National leaf springs will do most of the stuff a coil suspension will do. For most wheeling I would just stick with leaves. I'm going to 4-link the rear of mine with King coil-overs at some point, but it's at least a year or more down the road. The front I don't ever plan on anything but the leaves. I'll probably just order a custom set of Alcans that are 52" long and about 240 in/lbs. But I need to wheel it more to see what I like and don't like and get ride height and all that set.

As far as exo-caging the body, I don't know what to tell you. It's mainly a personal preference thing and whether or not you care about body damage. Personally I used to like exo's. Now I'm not real crazy about them. I pretty much have total disregard for body damage at this point. I'm really temped to even hybrid the truck with a Dakota cab or similar. I've been on few wheeling trips with Stephen Watson from Offroad Design and I'm kind of evolving in his direction. He used to care about body damage and now he doesn't seem to care at all.

That's where I'm at. I'm evolving into more hardcore, flip and roll stuff. I really think my next big upgrade with be a tubular cab kind of like John Budrant (sp?) from All Pro Offroad have on their Truggy.

It's hard to have a daily driver and a hard core wheeler. My truck gets about 5-6 MPG on the Interstate with the 44's.

As far as how mine works. Well I haven't really been able to take it out and wheel it much in it's new state as I'm still waiting on my permanent driveshafts and hydro steering. My main drawback will be the width of a full size cab. I wheeled a Nissan Pathfinder for about 10 years so I'm kind of partial to smaller cabs. They have better visibility, and will go a lot of places a full size just won't fit. That's also why I went with the Trailready wheels. I'm running 4 3/4" of back spacing on a 16.5x9.75" wheel to keep it a little narrow for a fullsize while still having some lateral stability.

Hope I didn't ramble too much.

Ryan

BTW Here is Watson's GMC Jimmy after Super Crawl:

http://www.offroaddesign.com/customrigs/rolledORDK5.htm

Wow, last time I saw pics of that thing it was still relatively straight. All good points; thanks very much for the input. I doubt that I could afford the time or money to build what I had in mind for a separate thing out of the '73 cab. My wife has already pointed out (repeatedly) ;) the extra costs associated with another vehicle; like Fullsize my wife handles the books. Putting that cab on the '77 frame does make the most sense. If it weren't for the winters here (home @ 8200 ft = lots of snow and -20F sometimes; we got 56" snow in one shot a few years ago) and need to take the family on the trail, including snow runs, I probably wouldn't bother with sheetmetal at all. Ain't gonna "wheel" a minivan, however there are some distinct advantages to having the wife & kids warm and happy. While it'll be good to drive to the trails, don't really have any delusions about this being a great daily driver - we've got other vehicles for that. I've never cared much for exos, or given much thought to body damage; the idea came about because I've got a bunch of 2-1/2" square 3/16" wall ROPS tube (rollover protective structure) for heavy equipment, and had envisioned this behemoth-buggy built around that cab. Absurd and impractical as camo's Rubibus, it might just be fun.

Measuring this frame (standard cab long box) and that crewcab it looks like the back of the cab will end up a few inches forward of the stock rear wheelwell opening. Without actually having the cab on the frame or tires on the axle to check, I think that it may be necessary to move the rear axle back a few inches. Long springs under the frame look like the ticket if that's the case. Since this part is a year or more away, still time to collect information.

Will need tires soon; what do you think will fit under 6" springs? For wheels I've got 9.75x16.5's with 5" backspace. Right now I can't afford to yank the inner fenderwells because it sees the road in winter, and need to keep slush and salt out of the engine compartment; otherwise I don't mind cutting and reshaping. Thanks again.

I hear you on costs. Watson said to figure out what it would take to build it and then DOUBLE it. And you know, I think he's probably right. I'm already way over budget compared to what I thought I would spend, but now I've got all the new stuff in it and I can sell all my old stuff - wheels, axles, etc. to pay for drivelines and steering. Small stuff adds up fast and will nickle and dime you to death. It's easy to web wheel and it look good on paper, but when it starts getting put together it's a lot more work than I thought it would be - stuff won't fit like you thought it would and it ends up being different than envisioned.

I've been eating a lot of macaroni and cheese to pay for parts. No lie. The Kraft spirals are the best too. :flipoff2:

As far as what size tire you could run. I would say 33x12.50s without hitting anything and no trimming. That's witout a swaybar. Moving the axle forward 1" by redrilling the perches might get you to a 35 with no swaybar, I'm not sure. If you move the axle forward cosider the fact that most Dodge draglinks aren't adjustable unless you've got an aftermarket one.

I think Hick has 35's on his. He would probably know better than me.

I've run 31's and everything up from there, but I always had the fenders trimmed after 32's.

I'm actually going to put some innter fenderwells in mine because I do so much mud here in texas. I'll just take some 1/8, bend it so it widens at the top, and bolt it to the rails and make it meet the cab and coresupport.

Ryan

When i got my truck, it had 36x14.5's on it with the 3.5" rancho lift. I measured my power wagon compared to my d-150 and about 2-3" was cut, and bent back at the rear of the fenders. THe inner fenderwells are still there, just are hammered back closer to the cab, and there isnt a bolt anymore of where the fender bolts to the inner fenderwell. When cycling the suspension, the 35x12.5's dont hit for within 3/4" " up front, and with no lift in the rear, they come close, but dont hit at all in the rear. Now i have 4" lift springs back there and i know i could easily clear 38" without hitting. As a side note, i didnt have the body bolted all the way on when i cycled the suspension, so it may make some difference.. but it didnt hit before, so i dont see why it woudl hit now. I will mess around with my website tonight so i can link over the pics of the truck with the suspension cycled.

Garrett

Already got crossover steering done with a Howe pump and reman box; moving the axle forward a few inches would just move the draglink a bit further from the rear of the crossmember for a little extra room. Draglink is adjustable (1-1/4x.219 wall DOM tapped 7/8-18) and uses ES2026 and ES2027 tre's. Boxed the frame with 1/4" plate and sleeved all the boltholes for a 4-bolt Saginaw box; cut and welded the column shaft to fit. Box gets tapped for the ram when the new front axle is swapped in.

I was also thinking of making new inner fenders, so it looks like I'd better start hunting material. I wouldn't buy tires for this thing under 35's and doubt they'd be that small unless I found a screaming deal. Was thinking 39.5" tsls, but had also considered a couple in the 37-38" sizes. Christian Hazel got 42's under one with 6" springs, but he also pulled the inner fenders. I'll find some way to do it. I don't mind cutting and use of the BFH; but I'll need to close up the inner fenders somehow when I'm done. I'm running 33's (255/85-16s) on my stock K1500 daily-driver, but outgrew that size for the trail quite a while ago. Gonna cut the fenders for tire clearance at some point anyway; just a matter of how much when.

I'm starting with an M880, so it never had a swaybar, power anything, radio, AC, cigarette lighter, dome light, or a lot of other stuff. It did have a 70's vintage pull-tab Budweiser can smashed and stuffed into the vent duct, however. :flipoff2:

Looking forward to the pics, Garrett - thanks. Do you have any of how the fender is cut? Natl Tire thinks 6" is enough for 36x15.5 and 8" lift will clear 38's without trimming; don't know how much twisting they did to test this, however. When the 60/70 goes in, it'll be near 7" lift - and I will cut as needed. :D

Hey lloyd, PICS!!!

I'll try to get some this weekend. It's dark when I leave for work, and dark when I get home.

This link is supposed to work... but i dont know how well.. the software i am using sucks.

http://grm.alloffroad.com

if that doesent work.. here is a direct link to the pics

http://grm.alloffroad.com/images/

Anyone know of any good web page software that works.. and best of all is free??

Garrett

That thing is way too clean. At least take a shovel and sling some mud on it or you'll never get it running. My dad used to say that dirt is an essential component of a truck and that if you wash it something will break. I think we found your problem. :flipoff2:

Originally posted by Hick
Anyone know of any good web page software that works.. and best of all is free??

Garrett

Check here: http://www.fsf.org/ If you run Linux the software to do anything is free, and generally works quite well.

Originally posted by Lloyd
That thing is way too clean. At least take a shovel and sling some mud on it or you'll never get it running. My dad used to say that dirt is an essential component of a truck and that if you wash it something will break. I think we found your problem. :flipoff2:

Well, it shoudl be clean, figuring i rebuilt it form the frame up, and havent even put a MILE on it yet :flipoff2: . Tho, right now it is kinda dirty, from sitting for over a year, out in the rain, with the windows down :( . Need to finish her up.. sucks living 350 miles from your shop.. where the truck (and current wheeling rig- 4 runner) is parked... well, at least i have my ram. :flipoff2:

Garrett

hey garrett, did you just run a chain through the wheel to "ramp" your power wagon? just curious if i should try that with mine. :D

yeah, i have done it that way, with a chain through the weel, also done it with a chain on the lug nut.. probabally would prefer the chain through the wheel though ;)

Garrett

Front: 10" Chevy springs with #3 and 4 removed.
Rear: 8" Chevy springs with #3 and 4 removed, shackle flip, and 7" shackles.

Looks like it works, but I haven't gotten a chance to test it on the trail yet.


Ramcharger Flex Pics (http://www.superiorairflow.com/ramcharger_pics.htm)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PJTPW
[B]

On the topic of suspension some custom Alcans or National leaf springs will do most of the stuff a coil suspension will do. For most wheeling I would just stick with leaves. I'm going to 4-link the rear of mine with King coil-overs at some point, but it's at least a year or more down the road.

Ryan [QUOTE]

i plan to run 4 link in the rear also, what are your plans? :beer:

MissBigTires, Nice flex pic on the charger' but why the panhard rod in the rear?

i plan to run 4 link in the rear also, what are your plans? :beer: [/B]

I think that I'm going to run a | \ / | with the outer links bent like the WMS guys use. I think this will help break over and minimize link contact with trail obstacles.

Ryan

Originally posted by PJTPW


I think that I'm going to run a | \ / | with the outer links bent like the WMS guys use. I think this will help break over and minimize link contact with trail obstacles.

Ryan


you have to be careful with your "break over", expecially running them 44's......:D

i've seen more folks using that style lower links.......they seem the way to go,
the only drawback i can even think of is weight......i think to be as strong as a straight link it would require more beef..........i'm thinking 1/2 the weight of all 4 control arms is "unsprung weight".......

Originally posted by 3/4tonYJ


you have to be careful with your "break over", expecially running them 44's......:D


Not to mention the 28" frame height with a completely flat skid plate:)

Speaking of WMS trucks and bent links -
This is the stuff I'm building for:

He made it!

i plan to use the X X style links(both lowers and uppers will be triangulated. i like the fact that all 4 links are locating the axle side to side with that style. :beer:

Has any one seen or tried 1/4 elliptical(sp) on the rear of a fullsize trail-truck? Ive read that when doing it on a down size truck people use 3/4 and one ton springs, so that makes me wonder what a bigger(heavier) truck would use or wouldnt it be worth it?

i dont like 1/4 eli. or coils cause they drop out with almost no resistance. when climbing, whichever way the trail leans, it tends to just flop over tword the downhill side unless you limit strap it tight and then it seems like the suspension doesnt work right for other kinds of wheeling. just my .02:beer:

Well I just orderd a front pair of BDS chevy 6"springs $ 240 with bushings and I'm going to the yards to see what I can find for 57"ford rears.

you wont like them. too soft and too much axle wrap when turned around backwards.;)

bringing this ttt, researching for my upcoming front leaf/d60 conversion... any recent ideas/pics??

I'm started inboarding my rear last night and making a new front hangar for my 52" fronts. I'll post pics in a couple of weeks.

Ryan

Originally posted by PJTPW
I'm started inboarding my rear last night and making a new front hangar for my 52" fronts. I'll post pics in a couple of weeks.

Ryan

52" chevy or dodge rear springs?

52" Chevy main leaf. 1 1/2 eye bushings. They're the springs I've had in the truck since I did my upper shackle bushing conversion, and longer HD shackles. I think they've got 3 or 4 Chevy leaves and 2 or 3 Dodge, I'd have to check.

The springs moved my axle forward 2" and I redrilled my spring pads 1" for total move of 3" forwards.

Personally, I'd never use 52" Dodges or any other spring that had 1" diameter eye bushings. I used to bust a set of bushings every weekend.

Here's a pic. (not a very good one)

Ryan

BTT for updates................

i'm planning on using 52" dodge rear springs with a 2" full length add-a-leaf so it can handle the constant weight of the motor sitting on them. if everything works like i think it will, the shackle will be layed back 2"(straight up now) and the front axle will be pushed forward 4" and the spring will still land on the front of the framerail.

has anyone else contemplated running swaybars with quick disconnects for pre-running/street driving? i have............:D


what updates do the rest of you have? come awn!!:beer: