While I have already detailed much of the build up on my own discussion fourm (http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?s=3e1a2d270bceffff), I decided to make a thread here as well. I read the recent thread where Paul Gagnon (He's the Moderator for those readers who haven't already figured this out) reminded us that this is not a 4" lift, Rear Blocks, and 33" Allterrains, kind of website. So here is my contribution to getting this forum back on track with the hardcore/extreme tech.



I am building a link type front suspension for the following rig. 76 chevy, 513 Cadillac, TH-350, 203/205 Doubler, 127" WB, 45" x 18.5" Goodyears, Front and rear 8274's, Exo in progress, Dana 60, 14 Bolt, 4 link w/coils in rear, welded rear, powrloc front. Im not sure what it weighs, but im gonna guess about 5500 lbs.

For springs, I've considered Coilovers, Coils, and Quarter Elliptic. For link arangement, I've considered || || with a panhard, |/\| (3link), or wristed/non-wristed radius arms.

I finally decided on a radius arm design similar to what you might find on the front of an XJ or ZJ, and 2.5" x 14" Remote Res Coilovers. I have the option to wrist one side or the other, if I so desire.

Click the pics for a larger version

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/images/Bracket_02_small.jpg (http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/images/Tech/Front_Suspension/Bracket_02.jpg) http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/images/Bracket_03_small.jpg (http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/images/Tech/Front_Suspension/Bracket_03.jpg)

I made these brackets from a piece of 1/4" mild steel plate, they are probably overkill and should have used 3/16" to save some weight. I will plate the front and back to provide more rigidity, and might tie them into the steering cylinder mount. These brackets position my links with the lower at the axle centerline, and the upper 9" above that, Center to Center. I wanted to have as much vertical separation as possible to prevent axle wrap and to get better suspension geometry.

Click the pics for a larger version

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/images/lca_small.jpg (http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/images/Tech/Front_Suspension/lca.jpg) http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/images/Threaded_End_small.JPG (http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/images/Tech/Front_Suspension/Threaded_End.JPG)

The Lower arm is 41.5" long, Center to Center. Same length as my lowers in the rear suspension. They are also adjustable so I could use one as an upper in my rear suspension as well.

After much deliberation, I decided to sacrifice some ground clearance to get more tire to control arm clearance. I moved the frame mount for the control arms to underneath the frame, and changed the mount location for the upper arm. (shortened it by 10.75") So now the upper arm mounts at the center of the lower arm. I didnt want to do that cause it might cause the lower arm to bend. But the advantage is that it will also act like a support to prevent the lower arm being bent up by rocks, and stumps. It also gives me greater frame clearance.

The axle brackets are still configured the same as before, with 9" of vertical seperation. If they interfere with the frame at max articulation I can cut the frame off at the vertical yellow line, and fab a custom frame from there forward. I would definately not have room to do this if I was going to use the factory sag steering box. Since Im using a fully hydro steering system, I can mount the orbitrol valve anywhere I need.

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-13451-longarm.JPG my own discussion fourm (http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?s=3e1a2d270bceffff)

Here is how my arms are adjustable.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=1091581

I think I need to read this again sober.


Charlo

Keep it coming. Looks great. Are you going to connect the Orb. valve to the end of the stock column, or fab a new column to reduce weight?

Yep, looks cool. Love to see something different. Two points for me (you probably have answers to this already) 1. On the nice brackets you have for your links. You said you were going to plate them front and rear. Make sure to leave a notch or gap at the bottom where it meets the axle for mud/water to escape. 2. On the adjustable part of the link (cool I was gonna ask how you did that) would two lock nuts be better, or will having one let the axle pivot more freely?

Thanks
Depdog

Rodzilla: I will probably end up cutting the stock steering shaft off somewhere inside the cab, and mounting the valve under the dash. I will then have to run hoses down to the valve inside the frame rails.

Depdog: Yes, I will leave plent' O clearance for cleaning the mud out. (Good point though for readers that dont run much mud, they might not think about that)

There is only one jam nut cause if I had two there would be just that much less room for adjustment. If I need to lock one end, I will drill and ream a hole for a 3/8" Dowl Pin.

While we are on the topic of steering:
http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-78973-Hydro_Steering.jpg

I had Station source my Cylinder, Valve, and Heims. The Valve is the first of its kind made by Danfoss. It has a higher displacement than your typical valve so I can have approximately 3 turns lock to lock. With such an exagerated Wheel Base, I think that a quick steering ratio will be a great advantage.

The Ram/Cylinder is the first of its kind as well. 2.5" Bore, 8" Stroke, and has 3/4" Fine Threads machined into the ends of the rod for heims, or Clevis ends.
From Station
It has double seals everywhere, which is a good thing for a cylinder that will be seeing shock loads. It is double protection against oil passing across the piston seals. the end caps are now made of 6061, and have a much wider span between the seals, which makes for longer end cap seal life on a cylinder that will bee possible seeing side loads.

I will make some clevises for the ram, and use Heims on each end of a two short Tie Rods. Right now I have the steering mocked up with avalanche hysteer arms, but I will have to make my own hysteer arms to keep them from bending.

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-55947-Tierods_2.jpg

The picture below shows how the ram will be mounted. The brackets that hold the ram to the hoop on the axle are only temporary, and will be replaced with some bolt on clamps. Obviously the tie rod in the stock location will not be used.

One more of the cylinder mounting. I will have to cut the frame off in front of the engine to make room for the ram. If I had not wanted to mount the cylinder in a Hysteer position, I would not have to do this.

Edit: I probably would not have to cut the frame off If I hadn't moved the axle forward 8". Also, if I had more lift, It might not have been a problem, but as the truck sits now, its only about 6" over stock.

That is going to one stout setup!
Whare do you get all your parts and steel???:skull:

The Hydro stuff is from Station. I purchase most of my steel from Alaska Steel.

I would consider mounting the orbital valve on to the firewall on the outside of the cab, I've heard from several people that have driven buggies with them in the "cab" that they can be really loud, in a full PU cab I would think it'd be worse.

Nice rig. :flipoff2:

Pete

While you could be correct, none of the forklifts I drive are loud. :confused: If I mount it outside the cab, it will be very close to the headers. :( And will be quite exposed to mud, rocks and sticks thrown from the tires, although I guess i could sheid it somehow.

Well, I guess in that case I would do a little research about your particular valve...should be easy, considering its a one-off. :flipoff2:

Pete

I cant imagine it being any louder than a 513 Caddy with 3" Duals and flowmaster 2 chambers :p

I have started the front half of the exo cage, so Yes, its missing some pieces. :flipoff2: Feel free to PhotoChop some ideas for me.

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-28901-Nostrils_2.jpg

The exo is all 1.5" sch 40 Pipe. 1.900" OD, and .145" wall. I will try to make some rubber inner fenders to keep the mud off the engine, but so far its not really been a problem. I dont use much wheel speed, cause normally I dont need to. The tires clean themselves well without. Dont bother arguing about using pipe either. Im a plumber, so what :D

Side shot, to show how short the front "clip" will be,
Everything in front of the cab will be bolt on, so that I can remove it for working on the engine. The radiator will be in the rear.

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-55613-Hood_4.jpg

Here is what the finished product MIGHT look like...
http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-38293-Exo_Front_Chop2.jpg

Here is a picture showing the back half of the cage
http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/images/Tech/cage/HiLift_Mount2.JPG

i'm jealous:D . looking good. my not so hardcore engine swap is about done. then i get to move on to the cool stuff like you.

i was just wonderin if you ever considered entering Four Wheeler's top truck challenge. i think you'd kick some major a$$. i am very much a fan of your style of wheeling and how well you've built your rig. i was wonderin what kind of rims you have that mount those goodyears. i know they're 16.1 or something like that. the progress looks great. keep up the good work.

bgreen....everytime I see your truck I think to myself....."self, if you were to start messing around with all the full-size Chevy junk you have laying aruond instead of playing with that silly Jeep you would build yourself a truck just like that bgreen dude, that thing is the shiznit!"

Keep up the good work, and remember, a full size mud truck does not always mean there's a mullet in the cab.

reeser: go Here (http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?s=3e1ba23a7f61ffff;act=ST;f=3;t=8) for more info on the tires.

The Rims I am currently running were custom made by the Goodyear Agricultural dealer, and should cost about 100 each. Mine are 14" wide, but I think I would get some 12's and weld on some Rockstomper Beadlocks. Then you could run the 4 or 5 psi that these tires need to really flex well. The tires are pretty expensive, but can be purchased for about $500 each. Small price to pay for the performance, IMHO.

For info and opinions on these tires you can go to My Tire Tech page (http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/Tire_Tech.htm)

4bangler, Larryboy: Thanks, its nice to see someone else appreciates its beauty :p

As far as TTC goes, sure Id like to go, but this rig is not nice enough to win. I will prolly enter next time it comes around, but if I got to go, I'd have to buy a whole new set of tires. (which id like to have anyway) Im not exactly street legal either, but I guess I could be with a bit of wiring, and some mud flaps.

i went to combineworld.com they offered a 16.5x16.1 terra tire. what are the sidewall dimensions of that??? i'm runnin 39" boggers right now. i was thinking of buying two terra tires for the rear and then the boggers up front. and when i drive on the street (its my daily driver) i'd go 4 boggers. what do you think. i have 1 ton gm running gear, 60 front and 14 bolt rear w/ 4.56's. so i think i'll push them fine. if not i'm gonna step up to 5.13's. thanks a ton.

also about ttc i think you'd own. so many of those guys are afraid to hit the gas when they're wheeling. with your tires and skills you'd take first easily. you might not score well on the ride and drive portion, but who gives a crap. you need to enter, i'll definitely vote for you. thanks again.

Go here (http://www.firestoneag.com/tiredata/frontimplement/Imp_pi.asp)

Looks like a 41" tire

how fast can you drive your rig with your tires. can you go over 50??? i'm just wondering. thanks.

I cant speak for bgreen but most of the tires like that(I call them industial tires) are rated at something horribly slow like 15mph. That is somewhat compensated by the fact they are meant to carry about 2-3 tons each if not more. They are not something you want on the highway though.

Charlo

Looks like it's coming along just great, I've been watching your truck ever since it was white with blue flames and on boggers... Pretty sweet dude.

How fast have you gone with your tires? I'm pretty keen on a set and I'm not too interested in a tire I wouldn't be able to blast through the bush at 55mph with... If I did pick up a set, I'd leave the boggers on the front and run the firestones in the rear.

Typically I run the exact same terrain as you since we live in reasonably similar climates. I've heard you state before that you don't spin them up as fast as boggers since you don't need to, but we both know there's situations where you need to hussle across the top of something (with lots of tire speed to avoid sinking). Creepy crawly geared low is nice if you're in a dryer area, but there's an awful lot of swamp and skeg up here. Have you had any problems with the 14 bolt holding up to these tires? Do you have the engine (or did you in 02) to spin these tires into the higher RPM's? I appreciate that the lugs are deeper, and farther apart to assist in traction, but how do they ride? Like a D-8 with ice lugs?

Not as a plug, but as a situation here are some vids where tire-speed gets you through...

My truck: http://www3.telus.net/public/mhepburn/skeg1.wmv

Similar situation: http://www.whiteknight.ca/muskegville.wmv

Basicly, I'd like to know how they work when you get moving. They'd weigh more than my boggers on steelies would, so that's an awful lot of rotational mass to have the truck deal with when you're hauling ass. What's your experience been?

Thanks,
Chad.

Reeser, Charlo, MR4WD: The tires are speed rated for 30 MPH. Meaning that you can drive them on pavement at 30 without having problems. Personally I think they are only limited to that speed becaue of their limited traction on smooth surfaces. I have driven mine up to 55 mph on the Hwy with out any problem. If you want to drive them on pavement much, they arent goint to last very long, maybe 1 or 2000 miles and they would be completely bald. There is not much tread contact on hard/smooth surfaces. They dont ride that bad actually, they are not shaped like a bogger with everyother lug cut out, so they ride fairly well for what they are. They are loud though :p

MR4WD: If you get these tires you will discover that you will use the throttle much less. Its just not necessary. Sure, there are times and places where nothing but raw HP, and wheel speed are required, but I generally choose to not go those places, as I dont like what it does to the terrain. Most of the places we wheel are old seismograph trails that were made 50 years ago, they cross open swamps and some very fragile habitat, that has recovered and grown over. So hitting them with the skinny pedal to the floor is somewhat irresponsible. Often I can put the truck in double low, and crawl through the "Skeg" with out ever sliping a tire.

Then of course there are all the local mud holes that have been rooted up every year for decades, where "Diggin in" isnt a problem. Wheel speed is King, and your not going to be disappointed with these tires. I call it the jet ski effect :D

I wouldnt worry about the 14 bolt personally. But if your breaking them with boggers, your gonna break alot more with the goodyears. The 44.6" Goodyear 6 ply only weighs 15 lbs more than a 44" swamper. So I dont think the rotational mass is a problem, but the traction will be.

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/images/Tech/44vs45.jpg

Above is a picture that shows the Goodyear next to a 44" Swamper. The Goodyear has a 4000 lb buggy sitting on it, and the Swamper is completely unloaded. They are at the same air pressure (I cant remember what that is) and are both on 14" wide rims. You can see there is a decided height advantage for the Goodyear.

Edit: forgot the picture :p

Originally posted by bgreen
Here is how my arms are adjustable.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=1091581

bgreen,
I am working on a Toyota Rockwell project that if you care to check out is in the Toy section under "project rockwells"

My question is where did you get the parts in the above pic? If you custom built them yourself what would you sell me a set for? Basically I built a three link and am not satisfied thus far with the perfomance of the JJ I am using above my third member. I am looking at some alternate ideas. Please provide me with some info.

Thanks
Brad

P.S. Looking good and nice to see someone has some respect for nature especially someone that could do so much damage.

I really think it is cool that you are putting your ideas and designs here for anybody interested to use, copy, modify, etc. You definately have put some effort into design, testing, redesign. I have been kicking around the idea of a full size buggy type of vehicle for quite a while, but have been unable to start because I was moving across the country. Well, I am now situated and will be going to the DRMO to find an army pick up to start with. I have been thinking about moving the cab and drivetrain back to lighten up the front as I am a little more interested in the higher speed activities such as sand duning and the like. Your rear suspension looks very effective, would you change anything on it? I am planning on copying it, but using coil overs in the rear as well. Have any of you checked out the formula off road trucks of the Nordic/Iceland area? I am going to be building in that direction.

My question is: Where did you get the parts in the above pic? If you custom built them yourself what would you sell me a set for? Basically I built a three link and am not satisfied thus far with the perfomance of the JJ I am using above my third member. I am looking at some alternate ideas. Please provide me with some info.

The parts in the above picture can be found at any industrial fastner supply store. The are nothing special. The nuts have been turned down on a lathe, so you can have any machine shop do that for you. It shouldnt cost more than 20 bucks to have 8 nuts turned down. (unless the shop has a minimum rate) If you want me to do it, and mail them to you, fine. But with shipping it will likely be cheaper for you to have them done locally.

About respecting mother nature: Thank you. I do everything possible to keep from disturbing sensitive ground, unfortunately some damage is going to happen. IMHO, street legal tires on off road trucks is the first thing to get rid of if you care about the environment, and do alot of mud running.


rummerd: the only thing I would change is to add more triangulation to the upper links.

You think you need a little more stability for body roll? I was thinking about that, but for the relatively lower speeds your wheeling is done at, you probably are not in dire need. I was planning on a long travel sway bar, similar to what the desert trucks run, but fabbed on the cheap myself. It would limit articulation, but could be easily designed with a quick disconnect for that type of wheeling. It looks like you have plenty of room to add one yourself. I was also thinking about a track bar/panhard rod, but I think that would be a step backwards. Easy, and simple, but with the nearly 2 feet of articulation you have, it would be detrimental in the rough stuff.

The only reason I would like more triangulation is to help locate the rear axle better from side to side. Similar to what a panhard would do. But its not a problem, and therefore not worth doing anything about.

If my upper links were angled like the red lines, rather than the green lines, I would have very little to complain about.

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/images/Tech/Rear_Suspension/4link_Topangle.jpg

FINALLY got weight on the springs last weekend. FINALLY!!

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-80445-Mounted_05.jpg

Yes, there will be more bracing ;)

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-21673-Coilover_Mounted.jpg

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-26461-Bracing.jpg

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-26632-Poser_06.jpg

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-27059-poser_01.jpg

The front of the frame is already cut off right in front of the coilovers so I can do something like this....

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-20548-hm.jpg

I like it! Looks like a really well thought out design. Let us (me) know what your specs turn out to be. i.e. wheelbase, travel, weight, etc. You may need to go coilover on the rear to keep up with the front!

Truck is looking really good.

I had a question on the Avalance arms you were using. I noticed you said they bend and was looking at the pics on your site I could see the pass. side arm was tweaked.

I'm going to be running full hyro from Station on mine and really like the Avalanche arms, but am concerned if they would hold up.

Did both arms bend or just the right one that you were running your draglink to in the old steering system? I was wondering if the old crossover steering was the culprit.

Do you think the arms would hold up to full hydro since the force will be applied directly to the side of the arms? (Not like the draglink's force being applied through a range of motion)

Thanks,

Ryan

rummed: I will prolly end up going to coilovers in the rear, but not for a while. Id like to spend more time wheeling it, than building it. :D Maybe in a year or two.

PJTPW: I dont know if you will be able to bend an avalanche arm with your ram, but Im sure you will be able to bend it with a big tire. (by running into something, or by running inbetween two large stationary objects like two rocks) Since they are much stronger horizontally than they are vertically, that is the direction they will start to bend when side loaded too much. My arms bent up because the large end of the TRE taper is at the top. If the large end of the TRE taper was at the bottom they probably would have bent down.

There are plenty of good arms on the market. Dont let Avalance suck you in with the adjustability that their arms "Seem" to offer.

I cut the frame off about 3" behind the front of the engine.

Then I welded a 1/4" Plate to cap the end of the frame.

I only had time yesterday to bend the upper bar.

looking good. what are the tabs on the upper link for? shocks?

Larryboy: Thank you, and Yes.

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-80445-Mounted_05.jpg

duh,it was in the pics earlier in the thread:rolleyes: . guess i should refresh my memory before i start asking questions.

Well, I pretty much wasted the whole afternoon working on the bumber and didnt even get it finished. Its close...

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-63348-Bumper_Mockup.jpg

I wanted the two uprights to act as the fairlead, but in order to do that the bolt holes had to go right through the side of them. I welded a guide plate on the front to locate the holesaw so it wouln't deflect off the side of the pipe.

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-63878-Bumper_GuidePlate.jpg

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-64011-Drilling_Bumper.jpg

Making the uprights was A BITCH! I had to notch the ends of some 6-8" long pipes, then cut them apart and weld them back together at the proper length because my notcher will not hold that short of a peice of tubing.

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-64157-Bumper_Bolts.jpg

Interesting idea. Nice work. Lots of effort on your part and it's nice to see things done properly, no matter how tedious. You seem to be a pretty good welder too! I'm jealous, I wish I had the shop and equipment to do some of this to my truck.

Loan me two of your tires!

Which bender are you using for this buildup? Looks great!

Its a pro tools 105 manual bender. No degree wheel or stop. I was going to make them myself, but once I got the bender Ive been so busy, I havent had time for those little convenience items.

Here is some of the gusseting im planning on doing over the front.

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-55875-threequarter.jpg

This pic shows how I will probably brace/gusset the link brackets. I made a bolt on bracket (using the two factory bolt holes, and a third hole that I drilled and tapped myself) that holds the passenger side of the panhard bar. It uses 5/8" bolts and will be welded to the radius arm bracket as well.

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-26732-Lower_Coil_Mount_PS.jpg

The plate that is infront of the winch is 3/16", so Im going to saw some holes in it like this to save weight. The gussets are 1/4" and have holes in them for shackles (not for towing, yanking, or winching off of. They are just for storing the end of the winch cable, and a spare shackle)

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-28134-Plate_Chop.jpg

Sorry for all the red x's. My site is down :mad:

I made the clamps for my Hydro Ram this weekend. They are 1" thick 6061. They are held together with 7/16" SCHS. The Ram is from station. The tie rods are solid 2024.

Here is the closest thing to an action shot the Freak has seen in about 5 months.

Pocketing out the hole for the ram...

Milling the outside profile...

I made 10 more flanges for the front clip. Everything from the cab forward is removable. I used 4 of them for the vertical supports that go from the bumper to the hood bars. Two more will be used for the hood triangulation and the rest will be used for the "Fender Bars"

Man, I am so jealous. You have SO many cool toys. I want a mill bad! But then again, I need an income producing job first...

Looking good man. I thought I was the only one who made things removable here. All of my stuff is modular. The cage bolts to my 1/4" subframe/rock sliders, which bolt to the frame via factory body mounts. The cowl/floor (all that's left of the GM body) bolt into the sub frame and cage. And the entire front cap (as it is and as it will be) bolt on as well. Most of the guys here all seem to be in the "I'll just weld the chit together and I'll cut it if I ever need to." camp.

I dont own the machine tools. :( I sure wish I did! Maybe someday soon. The Mills and lathes, belong to the shop I work for.

I have my own drill press at home:p but thats it, I dont even have a bench grinder.

I picked up some 4" superlift softride 3rd gen bronco coils today. They are going in the rear. I will have to modify the upper coil bucket to make them work, but the lower should be fine.

The XJ coils aren't working out very well. They were fine until I loaded all my trail tools and spares, and camping gear on the back, then they would be nearly coil bound on flat ground.

my god your "truck" rules

what kind of goodyears are those?

The agressive kind (http://www.goodyearag.com/tirecatalog/TSGSize.html) :D

Im making some Hysteer Arms for My Dana 60 front axle. The Double Ended Ram will attach Via short tie rods and 3/4" Heims that have a 5/8" hole. The arms will be made from 1.25" Mild Steel plate. Ackerman angle was not a consideration in the design of these arms, but they are similar to the arms that I have been running, and it seemed fine.

I machined the arms that I drew in the above picture today...

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-59988-Arm_Mach.jpg

I fly cut the top and bottom so they would sit square to the Knuckle, and add some grip for the mating surfaces.

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-60266-Arm_Flycut.jpg

I bought enough plate to make two more pairs if anyone wants some

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-60390-Arm_02.jpg

513 and a th350? yikes! that had better be one built th.

j

The 350 is being swaped out for a TH-400 before the Freak hits the trail again.

WOW, nice work, keep us updated. Alot of good ideas, looks like it is coming together nicely. You've got another vote for TTC here, I think you'd blow them away!!! Awesome build!!

Looks great!! My brother and I have been working on a very similiar front suspension. (As far as the arms go) We used early Bronco coils and ford rubber radius arm bushings on the frame end. (to allow more side to side twist) It works better than we could have hoped- Have'nt thoroughly trashed on it yet though!!

In the rig-

cool

Just a small update:

I made new mounts for the rear springs (4" Superlift Softride 3rd generation bronco Coils) this weekend. The springs are way stiffer than what I was running (stock '00 XJ front coils), and way heavier. The XJ coils weighed only 7 lbs each, but the new Bronco Springs weigh 24 lbs each! I gained about 6" of lift over the XJ coils so its a good thing my upper mounts are adjustable.

The XJ Coils had a wire diameter of about .520"
The Bronco Coils have a wire diametere of about .780" and are about 17" long IIRC. I will verify the length if anyone is interested.

The new mounts consisted of a small round plates about 3.5" dia, to capture the inside of the spring on both ends, and a bit of bracing to keep the plate from collapsing from bolt tension.

I also finished all the gusseting I wanted to do for the front of the exo. I made a plate style gusset where the A pillar joins the halo, and some pipe gussets where the hood piece meets the A pillar. AND another small diameter bar that ties the hoop that goes infront of the door and over the Cowl (under the windshield) to the vertical bar behind the shock. I had to make some smaller flanges for this bar since I had origianally intended to use larger diameter pipe for this piece.

You can see the new bracing across the hood in this picture as well.

Looks good. Can't wait to see some new action shots.

That is looking SWEET Nice job! And here I thought you were just some hillbilly from alaska building swamp buggys:flipoff2: (Not that theres anything wrong with that):D

I started boxing the frame last weekend, then the power went out for a few days. Wind took out powerlines all over the kenai. The coldest temps we have seen all winter. I got a generator hooked up a few hours before my water pipes would have frozen.:( so, in other words, I havent had much progress in the last few days. Its been a while since I made an update to this thread, so I will just post a few pics tonight. Maybe a few more in the next couple days.

So far, its all 3/16 x 6" flat bar. The rest will be finished with 1/8" x 6" flat bar.

Very nice, hope you enjoy the weather up there. I have been working outside on my rig in shortsleeves here. I enjoy this thread so keep the pics and updates coming. So far it is one bad beast.

I finished makeing all the plates and tacked them in today. I went clear back to the rear suspension crossmember. Tomorrow I will put the front of the exo cage on, and finish welding the frame up.

BTW: I have been saying "I should have done a full tube chassis" for a long time. Since I started I think. Oh well. Maybe next winter.


http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-68517-boxed_02.jpg

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-68700-Boxed.jpg

The stock 1/2 ton chevy frame is about .150" thick.

I built this for my rear mounted winch the other day. Didn't want the plasma to get caught up in the roller fairlead.

Lookin good. I have a feeling my dodge will have a boxed frame similar to yours this summer...

Did you cut down the steel to be inside the lop of the C, or on top of it?

Garrett

Man, that frame looks like a LOT of work. You'll be welding for HOURS...

Dude, sometimes you make me sick. You've got all the toys and time to play. :flipoff2: (I think that's the first time I've used that icon :D )

6" fit right inside the [ There were a few places where the frame needed to be slightly "pinched" down onto the plate with a big c-clamp.

Originally posted by BadDog
Man, that frame looks like a LOT of work. You'll be welding for HOURS...

Dude, sometimes you make me sick. You've got all the toys and time to play. :flipoff2: (I think that's the first time I've used that icon :D )

hey now. I dont have time to do anything other than this stuff. I work my reg job 10 hours a day and the rest of my life is in the shop. The only recreation I have time for is this computer.

I dont own the machine tools. I am just allowed to us them after hours. ;)

Your right, I will prolly be welding for a long time. Gonna have to use the old Stick machine so Im not maxing out the duty cycle on the lil hobart 135. :D

Haha, I would kill for access to a mill. Good luck man, sweet project.

I might have time to do something if it were not for work, wife, kids, house, ... :rolleyes: Anyway, just kidding with you, no sour grapes here, I’ll just live vicariously through you and your posts here. :D

Thats some nice fab work you got going on, you must not be married.
:flipoff2:

Married. House and 7 acres, Full time job, Trying to start a business. The Key is that I dont have any kids, and my friends disowned me long ago :D

The frame is all welded up now, and most of the exo. I started making a bracket to hold the overflow tank to the Cage today.... Its all 14 ga.

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-52181-bracket.jpg

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-43208-overflowcan.jpg

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-43007-overflow_01.jpg

This is where the lower radiator hose will go through the frame. Its a piece of driveshaft tubing. (.120 DOM)

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-43381-hole.jpg

This thread is to good to die. Any updates?

This thread is dead. This forum is dead. (sorry Paul) I should have put it in the general. If you want the most current updates you can go here (http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?s=3e81f4674978ffff;act=ST;f=3;t=16;s t=200).

I hear ya. Thanks for the update though.

You guys dont know what a lonely forum is, try driving a dodge:rolleyes: Bgreen, thanks for the link, your truck has given me tons of ideas, the work you do is amazing, keep on it!!!

Is there any way we can get this thread moved to Gen? As good as this project is, a lot more people should know about it.

I dont care if they move it to general. PM paul gagnon if thats what you want to do.

Time to bring this back into play... :D

Well, I just scored 2 pairs of coils so I'm going to start toward rear coils. I got a stock set of TJ fronts, and a stock set of ZJ fronts. ZJ seem much stiffer but I have no specs on either. Anyone got inch-pound specs for these?

Plan of the moment is to build a set of receiver tube adjusters like Brook's for the top mounts and swap/play till I figure out what will work... Also my truck is "configurable" for 4 place seating with full load or running with just 2 seats (well, once the bench is gone...) so I can use it to adjust the ride height in the rear based on load. I want to set the springs as close to the frame as possible, secured at both ends.

For links, lower links run as far forward as is practical, and a single, parallel, offset top link with a track bar. Still debating on material and rod end selection. It will have bushings on one end and I may do a set of lowers like WMS boys run. I don't want a "V" because of interference with the tank among other things...

Main reason I'm posting here is to ask Brook about the rear receiver/adjusters. Any thoughts on the design? You like? Any changes you plan or wish you had made??? I'm thinking it might be good to add set screws (bolts) to keep the mount solid in the receiver (eliminate wear and rattles?).

I used stock XJ coils at first. They were just right when the truck was completely unloaded, and low on fuel. With a full set of tools and all the other gear and gas I normally carry on the trail they were way too soft. I was nearly coil bound at ride height. I could adjust the coil bucket down to compensate, but I had very little up travel at that point. Next I went to 3rd generation bronco lifted 4" Softride coils. Thats whats in there now, and I can see that they are going to be too stiff. Idealy Id like about 6" of "Ride In" on the spring. (6" of compression at trail weight) I think I will have about 2 or maybe 3" at the most. SO.... I bought some 4" lifted XJ Coils, and just by looking, they seem like they will be just right. The difference between the three coils is quite noticable. I weighed the stock xj coils at about 7 lbs, and the Bronco Coils at 24 lbs! I dont know what the 4" XJ coils weigh, but the wire diameter is almost the exact average of the two other coils.

I havent noticed any noise from the slop in the receiver hitch tubing coil adjusters, but maybe thats cause they are always packed with mud. :D I had originally intended to put a bolt in from the side to keep them from rattling around, but never found it necessary.

Anything new??

last few pages here (http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?s=3e599bd60b00ffff;act=ST;f=3;t=16)

Sorry for the link to my own board, but Im hooked up trying to get the last few details finished so I can run it on saturday.

Cool!!!

Show the board what you have been up too brooks, the thread on AKfabshop is nice!

Been working 7 days a week for a while now, so I haven't made any progress lately...

But HERE (http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=209961) it is.

I had to register to heap praise upon you, and this killer build up!!!

This is smokin'!! Great write-ups, of four wheelin' trips on your webpages, as well


-Marty

THIS THREAD WILL NEVER DIE!!!! muhaha:D :D :D :D :D :D :D

Id have more updates but I've been rebuilding a 6000 cfm, 2500 psi, compessors for the last few weeks. Thanks for the compliments. :D

Man, its been a while, You fawkers need to kick my ass for not posting.

Lots of sh!t in the works right now, but I have had some time to work on the dash, and an old friend... The 513 :smokin:

Hey... Whats this?!

Holy cylinder head batman!

Still trying to sell the truck?

No sharp edges in there, huh. good to see you posting back up. I am sad I didn't put up a thread when building my s-10. I am still way too jealous of your machinist skills.

No, the truck is for sale, but I was never really trying to sell it. Its just there incase someone wants it.

The head work I did not do myself, I purchased Ported and Polished 552 heads for the Cadillac, and this funny looking carburator....

Whatever happened to that s10?

Whatever happened to that s10?

Yea mang, we need an update on that sucka! True trailer ball link setup :laughing:

The S-10 project was dropped like a hot rock. Its been sitting under a blue tarp since the middle of winter. Im about to cut the rear suspension off, and take the rest to the dump.

With your skills, You could build something much better then a hybrid!

I am sorry you got a holly :barf: :barf: :barf:

Maby you can make yours runn good

I agree, thats why the freak is for sale ;)

For now, I like it though. Its fun, and functional. But the next buggys gonna be on portals, the same tires, and has gotta fit through a 7 foot door without letting the air out of the tires... lol.

I've heard lots of bad, and lots of good about the holley. We shall see.... Anything is better than a q-jet with a cracked throttle body. :Flipoff:

bad ass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Updates http://www.akfabshop.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=138&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=165

I run the Holley and its just fine. I have used the 2 barrel version and I have the 4 barrel Projection now. It just takes two people to set it up. One driving and the other tapping keys.

This is the older model, no laptop required.

In this video, there is some good footage of the new found 513 caddy power, and also you can see the bog i've got on the bottom end. I need to check out the TPS to make sure it meets holleys specs. anyway, if you got a few minutes, and a broadband connection check it out.

19 meg wmv file http://www.akfabshop.com/movies/Lackeys.wmv

Since its GAY to just link threads back to your home forum, I'll come back and make an actual update when im done with the majority of the tube work, but this will have to do for now. :D

Freak build - Season 3

(http://www.alaska4x4network.com/showthread.php?t=4639&page=1&pp=40)http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=163585

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=163586


http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=163587

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=163588

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=163589

So you decided to stick with the Freak instead of selling and building a crazy buggy.
Still planning on Portals?

Wooly sheet your truck gives me wood. :D :smokin:

good to see this thread come back to life! :)

So you decided to stick with the Freak instead of selling and building a crazy buggy.
Still planning on Portals?


Im about to loose my job, so the freak is still for sale, BUT FOR MUCH LESS MONEY!

I'll entertain offers over 10k. :smokin:

checked out your forum, very nice work, very cool
BTW, definitely keep the cab.

Ive been watchin yer progress on the rig for a long time now and its definately lookin badass. When I get back to anchorage. I make it down to Kenai quite a bit durin the summer so I'd love to come down and check it out, maybe get some ideas cuz I'm gonna build a buggy startin in the fall.

Some progress on the rear. The plate over the lower hitch will double as a mount for one end of the fuel tank. Its 1/8" A36 plate. The plates under the lower "frame rail" are 1/4" A36.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=164345

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=164346

Are you still planning to use the adjustable coil mounts?

I finally got around to ordering all the stuff for my links so I should be linked in the rear soon. No more broken leafs for me! Anyway, I'm not 100% sure what coils I'll ultimately run, so the adjustable thing looks like the way to go. I'm starting with V8 ZJ springs and a loaded weight of around 5k. My mounts will be patterned after yours or Scotts "all thread". Also thinking about a combo of the two with 2" receiver adjusted using 1" all thread.

And good luck on the job situation, hope it works out…

I couldnt make my self use the receiver hitch tubing for the coil bucket adjuster this time, so Im going to use some b7 threaded rod, and fab the mount. I should have pics of this by the end of the weekend. :)

some thing like this only with threds to move it

As promissed... sorry, I had a 5 day weekend :flipoff2:

This is the first mount I made this weekend. Notice the allen socket welded into the top of the stud.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=165505

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=165506

BUT, that didnt last long... I cut it all off and made these instead. They arent finished, but you get the idea.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=165508


http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=165509


http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=165510


http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=165511

gawd I hate you for your fab skills. That is effin beautiful. :beer:

Those look great, nice work. Bout time that thing started lookin as pimp as its fab instead of a big ugly cab truck !!

Adjustable link mounts

The outer can is 2.5" sch 80 pipe. The caps are 1/2" A36 machined down to 1/4" at the edge, and tapered up to give the 1.25" B7 stud a full 1/2" of bearing area. The end of the studs are turned down to 1" diameter, and one end is counterbored to have a socket head welded in like the spring mounts. The slots in the can are .275" wide, to give some clearance to the 1/4" thick tabs that weld to the nuts inside the can, and hold the end of the link. The gusset is 14ga A36. There weld on washers are 4140 and drilled out to fit the 9/16 bolt. (They are stacked up underneath, and there is one under the head of the bolt.)

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=166334&stc=1


http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=166335&stc=1

Nice truck, so far. I may... may tube the rear of my bronco. but first, I need to get a welder and some experience :( :shaking:

Man this thread is SOO making me want to chop the back of my burb off. Incredible fab work on your truck.

I mocked up the suspension today, using the same angles the the old suspension had, but placing the links where I thought they should be as far as the chassis ends are concerned. With said geometry, I end up with 124% antisquat, and a 5* roll axis. The roll center height is 25.16". All based on a 48" COG.

The project for tomorrow is to hack the lower link mounts off the axle, and build new ones to double triangulate the rear suspension. With bushings, and how little actual triangulation I have been running, I could possibly have more side to side movement that I want. Its hard to to say really, because I have nothing to compare to. Especially with 45" tractor tires on home narrowed rims and bead locked rims. Triangulating the lowers should improve the stability greatly, with little to no negatives.

A few pics to show the crossmember that supports the front of the gas tank, and stuff

Pic one shows the suspension as it would give me 124% antisquat, with a theoretical COG height of 48"
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=167761

Pic two just gives an overall view of the progress so far.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=167762

Pic three shows nothing (just that there is no turning back now )
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=167763

so, full size chevy guys... how high is your roll center and what is your anti-squat percentage?

A pic of my first tig welds :D

the rear lookks pretty nice I really like your adj link mounts. Im lookin to do the same deal on my 76 chevy and im curious as how you attached the lower tubes to the frame. Did you box the left over section of stock frame then butt weld the tubes to that? how strong is that.....i was thinking about doing something like this.. 2 plates with 2 holes bored into them that the tube slip into the mounts then weld to mounts then weld the moutns the to frame. IS that too over kil :confused: l? how did u do it? oo ye ahtos tig welds are pretty nice too :D

the rear lookks pretty nice I really like your adj link mounts. Im lookin to do the same deal on my 76 chevy and im curious as how you attached the lower tubes to the frame. Did you box the left over section of stock frame then butt weld the tubes to that? how strong is that.....i was thinking about doing something like this.. 2 plates with 2 holes bored into them that the tube slip into the mounts then weld to mounts then weld the moutns the to frame. IS that too over kil :confused: l? how did u do it? oo ye ahtos tig welds are pretty nice too :D

You could do that, but if your welds are good, you dont need to.

All I do is cap off the frame, box it, and but weld the tubes to the cap. After that you can do little things to add strength to the joint, such as gussets, side plates, or something like this....

Its the stringer that ties into my rocker protection.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=163588

I did the front on this rig the same way.

I did something similar to what you describe a few years ago. I did it because I didnt really know how to weld or fabricate things, so I wanted to make my bumper as strong as I could.

I bent the bumper and left the tag ends long enought that they could go into the frame about a foot, then I drilled the tubes and inset some small tubes for 1/2" bolts to go though. (placing them in double shear) Then I made caps on the end of the frame that fit the contour of the bumper. This plate was drilled and tapped so that I could use some 3/8 bolts in tension, on each side. THEN! I welded the bumper to the frame along the axis of the tubes, and the cap plates to the bumper, putting one set of welds in shear and the other in tension. SOOOOOOOO over kill :p, but it never failed and I have definately given it a chance over the last several years. Prolly over 200 heavy winch pulls, and almost as many snatch strap recoveries. I can remember one recovery where a suburban was burried over its 45" tractor tires, and I was backing up with about 30 feet of slack, and stomping the gas on the old caddy. He never moved. Ended up doing a tripple line pull with my rear receiver hitch mounted 8274, to pull him out backwards.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=167823

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=167824

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=167825

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=167828

What is that thing?..... gm frame and home made tractor front clip..... fawkin kewl ...... in an adams family way....

Awesome thanks for the help ill keep that in mind when i do my rig. Ill let you know how it goes thanks for the pics and tips!

I spent most of the day cleaning off what was left of the old brackets on the 14 bolt, then cleaning up the mess I made in the shop. Damn that was alot of grinding!

I will say this. Buy GOOD grinding wheels, I prefer Norton products. I started cleaning up the 14 bolt with a Dewalt wheel that I bought from Home Depot, it lasted all of 5 minutes. Then I went with a high quality "fast cut" wheel made by Norton. This wheel was half worn out already, and it lasted through the next 2 hrs of heavy grinding. (grinding that was nearly stalling out my 4.5" hand grinder) They cost about 2 bucks more per wheel, but you will remove literally 10 times the material with them.

I finally welded the "weld washers" on my link brackets. (Brackets are 1/4" A36 plate, and the washers are 5/16" thick 4140. I assembled the washers and bracket with a bolt that was long enough that the shoulder passed clear through the washers so I was sure they would be centered. Torqued the nut just enough that it would hold the assy steady while I tacked it in place. Then pre-heated the entire assy to about 400 degrees so that the weldment wouldnt draw heat away from the weld too fast causing cracking. In further effort to eliminate cracking, I used 309L SS filler rod.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=167951

This is the welder I used. its a Lincoln 300 running on 220v. Old school, but runs sweet. I even broke out the old clunky hand amptrol to make sure I had enough control on my starts and stops.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=167953

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=167954

These are what Im going to be using for my rear bumpstops. They are called Timbrens, and are supposed to be used as overload springs. I think they are going to be sweet! I'll post some tech on these later if I remember.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=167952

ok, the bump stops...

They are Timbren AEON Rubber Springs and can be found at www.timbren.com

http://www.timbren.com/Aeon/aeon/tim_aeon.htm

I got the A520-75. They specs are as follows.

Held with a 1/2" bolt through one end of the "spring"
Bump Load Capacity - 4400 lbs each
Nominal Height (free length) - about 4"
Nominal O.D. - 2.375"
Max Deflected Height - 1.625"
Max Deflection - 2.3125"
Max Diameter (at max deflection) - 3.5 This should fit nicely inside an XJ spring without binding up on the inside of the coil when compressed.

I thought the next best thing would be the 530-65 (see above link for specs) but they are rated 1400 less per ea. on the bump capacity.

I STILL want to know what exactly the red beast is in the 4th pic of post #137

Moose buggy. They use rockwells, huge tires, and build the bodies. While you don't have to stick with that recipe, it seems to be like all the ones I see them AK guys post up.

Are you l /\ l or dual triagulating the links? Those adj link brakets are making me tear up. Cant wait untill i get my rig and tear it apart But i think i might skin it. Are you going to Skin any part of your rig or are you staying open like before?

I STILL want to know what exactly the red beast is in the 4th pic of post #137

Its a suburban frame, Dana 60 front, Dana 70 rear, 7.17 gears, 45" goodyears, 305, TH-400, 205 with pto out. Hand made cab, huge bed, can carry a couple moose and over 100 gallons of fuel. A true expedition rig. PM Speedo on this board for more info.

Are you l /\ l or dual triagulating the links? Those adj link brakets are making me tear up. Cant wait untill i get my rig and tear it apart But i think i might skin it. Are you going to Skin any part of your rig or are you staying open like before?
im dual triangulating the links. like this... Bottom is the back of the truck. / \ / \

I will put some very small fender skins on it if I find some worth messing with, but really, I dont plan on it at this point. They wont do anythign to improve the performance of the truck, and they will definately be in my way, and restrict air flow to the radiator, so I prolly wont do it. The front is skinned, and the pic below will show how the rear will be skinned if I should decide to go that route.

good god i though this thing was soo bad ass when you first built it... Now it has gone into a whole new relm(spelling?) That hood looks bad ass and I agree with you about no skins it looks too awesomely mad max to change it... Whats left to do on it? Are you still running the Holley projection? Or did u scrap it?

yeah I second the mad max look, that rocks

Whats left to do on it? Are you still running the Holley projection? Or did u scrap it?

I still have to build a x-member that will double as the lower radiator mount. then make a fan shroud to hold the two Taurus fans. Also need to gusset the coil spring mounts and the cage. AND, fab the new suspension brackets on the axle and frame, re-mount the back of the cab, build suspension x-member, build some structure for the deck plate on the bed. Then all thats left is re-plumbing the radiator, and mounting auxilary items such as dual batteries, CO2 tank, Shovel, Tool Boxes, Hilift, Tire Irons, etc, etc, etc.

Im still running the pro-jection. Good so far, but have a slight bog off the bottom end, but really, im impressed for how little tuning I have done. The bog could be timing for all I know. I just slapped the engine in, slapped the pro-jection on, and went with it. Messed with fuel pressure a couple times, and changed the timing by sound a couple times, thats it.

Im thinking about putting the projection on my sbc 400 what model do you have? Im sure my little 400 wont use as much fuel as the 513 but maybe I can tweak it. That list doesnt look too too long :D Hope it all goes well and keep us updated love the work!

Its a Holley Projection 4D, something like 800 CFM.

A pic of my first tig welds :D

*first* being the first of the hour? :flipoff2:

I remember seeing your rig years ago full bodied white and flamed.... it looks awsome, just keeps getting better as do your skills!

Justin

I did practice for about 2 hours before I made those welds, but those are the first tig welds I put on anything other than scrap steel.

man, everytime I see that thing it gets better and better! Lookin good man!

Brian

I havent been able to do much this weekend, as I have spent most of it working on some interviews, but here is what I've done so far.

This just shows how I plan to take up any slop there might be in the threaded mechanism.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=168971

And these are the brackets that im making for the lower links, on the frame end.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=168970

I did practice for about 2 hours before I made those welds, but those are the first tig welds I put on anything other than scrap steel.

Your a better man than me....it took me more like 2days of practice to get anything to look that good :p

Justin

I need more controll over certain muscle groups to get any better, that and a better hand amptrol. Its gonna take a while, but I think I will get it. I didnt used to be able to type other than hunt and peck, but with practice, I can now type well over 50 wpm. It just takes persistance, and determination. Im no better than you, im just a fat, lazy, overweight, kid that likes making things.

dude that truck is so bad..... i love the custome chasie :flipoff2: :flipoff2:
im building an 73 chevy .. im doing an cage similier to wut u got except no custome chasie or anything :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

As usual, not a whole lot of progress, but I did have some time to work on it this weekend.

Axle end, lower link brackets...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=170313&stc=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=170314&stc=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=170315&stc=1

The start of the lower link frame end brackets.... The hole is for my exhaust... Not sure if im going to run the supertrapps or not, but if I do they will fit. The piece that goes through the bracket is actually 3" .083 wall DOM driveshaft tubing. The side plates are 3/16, and the strap across the bottom is 1/4". All much heavier than I normally use, but this stuff is hanging way down on the frame from normal, so I wanted it to be stout.

Pics of the two options for exhaust... (the turndown would be trimmed up to give better ground clearance. Also, the supertrapps would have a hoop around the end, and some sort of skid plate)

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=170331&stc=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=170332&stc=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=170333&stc=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=170334&stc=1

have you ever thought about running your exhaust through your tube frame...like have headers then a piece of tube to a cutout part of your tube frame...then to a turn down like you have at the end?

Brook, if you get canned I gotta think there is a welding/fab/machine shop somewhere that will take you on. You've got a lot of skills. What about making parts for people on Pirate? Dimple dies, brackets, etc.

Jack

have you ever thought about running your exhaust through your tube frame...like have headers then a piece of tube to a cutout part of your tube frame...then to a turn down like you have at the end?


I cant really because the links are in the way.

Brook, if you get canned I gotta think there is a welding/fab/machine shop somewhere that will take you on. You've got a lot of skills. What about making parts for people on Pirate? Dimple dies, brackets, etc.

Jack

Fabwork will most likely never be anything but a moonlight business for me. There is too much money to be made else ware. (there are guys like me making about 180k / year on the slope. :eek: )

those link mounts look diesel man. Can wait to see how it all turns out. I agree with your comment on muscle control I experienced the same thing when i first stared to arch weld... at first i couldnt do shit then after a while i was able to lay down a decent bead.. practice makes perfect :D

I need more controll over certain muscle groups to get any better, that and a better hand amptrol. Its gonna take a while, but I think I will get it. I didnt used to be able to type other than hunt and peck, but with practice, I can now type well over 50 wpm. It just takes persistance, and determination. Im no better than you, im just a fat, lazy, overweight, kid that likes making things.

Have you ever used a foot amp control? I've never had the opportunity to use the hand control, just the foot....your right on the practive thing, I find that once I get comfortable I can generally do good, but when I've got to conform to whatever piece that I'm welding is when it gets rough for me.

Oh, and the freak is lookin good as always :smokin:

Justin

I have used one, and I agree, its the easiest way to go, but I dont want to learn how to walk with a crutch if you know what I mean.

The first thing I do when mocking up suspension parts is to put the axle on jack stands and square it up to the chassis. Careful measurements to known symmetrical points on the chassis will get your axle centered and square. In this case, I had very little go by since everything from the back of the cab rearward was custom built. Rather than risk accumulative error by measuring off of custom fabricated parts, I measured off the only two remaining stock brackets on the truck. The two front cab mounts. Now, you have to realize that those are not going to be perfectly located since they they are points that have nothing to do with the alignment of the drive train, but they are a place to start. When the suspension is complete, the adjust ability you have built into your control arms will allow you to get an accurate alignment. IMO the best way to do that is to have someone drive the vehicle down the road in front of you, while you follow in another vehicle. You will be able to see if the truck is crabbing, and can make adjustments as necessary. For a buggy such as mine, this is a step that will likely never be an issue.

Step two is to set the control arm under the chassis in a position that you think is close to your desired geometry. I use jack stands and/or floor jacks, or this little tool I made that I call my "Third Hand", to make adjustments to the first control arm, then I tack it in place with pieces of scrap metal or whatever I have laying around. More measurements to verify that the control arm is where I want it, and a few adjustments with a BFH, and your ready to start with the CAD work. (Cardboard Aided Drafting)

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=170703&stc=1

The best cardboard is kinda hard to find, (the backs of old notebooks) but you can make due with poster board, or even pizza boxes. Since the control arm is now exactly where you want it, you can sit down on the floor with a couple pens, markers, a compass, ruler, and some scissors, and start shaping your card board into the shape you want your brackets to be. Its a tedious process, but the end result will be templates that you will use to trace onto what ever steel your going to make your brackets out of.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=171065&stc=1

I like to make the axle end brackets first since they are generally more simple than the frame end brackets. Once one is cut out, and hand fitted, bolt it to the control arm, and tack it to the axle. Now you can remove one of the jack stands, and repeat the process for the frame end brackets.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=170704&stc=1

Once you have one side completely done, and all the brackets tacked into place, you start on the other side. This time, your paying close attention to how the first side is oriented, and matching that to the second. Your not going to get it perfect, so dont pull your hair out on that last 1/16" or half a degree. Nothing about a car or truck has to be that accurate. Especially when you are working off a rig that has already been abused off-road.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=171064&stc=1

Once both sides are completely mocked up, take a second look at all your measurements, and make sure there isn't something obviously wrong, or something you forgot to consider. Now is the time to fix it, not after everything is burned in. You dont have to worry about all the little details like gussets at this point. That can all be taken care of once everything else is finished.

dig your truck alot man! awesome work.

Not much to add just that those Timbren rubber springs are sweet. My buddy uses them on his buggy. They are way better than traditional bumps and much cheaper than the ultra bling Fox or Sway-A-Way bumps. I'm actually surprised more people don't use them.

Fabwork will most likely never be anything but a moonlight business for me. There is too much money to be made else ware. (there are guys like me making about 180k / year on the slope. :eek: )

holy shit 180k damn im going to start taking some welding classes!

hes not a welder

hes a mechanic ;)

awesome buildup, I too envy your abilities

what do you mean by "on the slope"?

The "North Slope" ie... Alaskan Oilfields such as http://www.north-slope.org/

http://www.conocophillipsalaska.com/facilityaccess/images/akregionassets.gif

im moving to sitka in a few years, just a few miles south of that map.

ya, several hundred miles south :smokin: Good thing too. The climate is much nicer in Sitka!

I remember seeing your rig years ago full bodied white and flamed.... it looks awsome, just keeps getting better as do your skills!

Justin

I miss that truck

Yep, I remember when it used to park in the library parking lot at ISU. :D

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=171747&stc=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=171748&stc=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=171749&stc=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=171750&stc=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=171751&stc=1

I dont have room to make the proper bends that would be necessary to exhaust out the pass side. the t-case is in the way. (clocking it flat used up allot of room)

I looked at this for HOURS trying to figure a better way to do it, but after considering what it would take to exit out the pass side, I decided to go with this. I can always change it to do something else later. This is the 4th exhaust rendition, its changed every time I've done work to the truck. lol.

There shouldnt be much heat transfer, and even if there was, there is nothing that could melt at those temps within close proximity.

Because of how rigid the boxed and tubed out chassis is, and how stiff my motor and tranny mounts are, I dont think I need any flexable member between the hard mounted exhaust, but I will put something in there if someone has any easy AND inexpensive solutions.

I plan on either doing nothing at all, and just flanging it up with standard collector flanges and gaskets, (already have the flanges tig'd to the frame pass-through tubes. (that was fun, had to weld with a mirror because I couldnt get my head wraped around the output of the t-case :D )) OR... Using a short section of flexable exhaust pipe with flanges welded to each end.

The exhaust temps that far back arent going to be all that high, so I was wondering about using some sort of silicone couplings.

well i think that this (http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10101&productId=5192&catalogId=10101&langId=-1) would obviously be your best bet and its really not that expensive. I thought about going out my pasenger side frame because i want side exit but dont want any shit hanging low under the frame rail.

good luck, it looks pimp for sure, and your tube work out back on that rig is really bitchin'.

I am the exhaust engineer at Volvo Trucks, so I speak with some experience. No silicone hose will hold up to exhaust heat. You WILL need a flexible connection between your exhaust header and your frame mounted pipe. Your engine moves much more than you think it does.

Hose like this is the industry standard for connecting the turbo outlet to the chassis mounted exhaust pipes on class 8 trucks:
http://www.rikerprod.com/flexhose.htm

The bellows style mentioned above do not allow for torsional movement. They are typically used on FWD cars were the engine rocks front to back to take up axial movement in the exhaust sytem. I have seen them used on regular RWD configurations too.

I have some of that kind of flex hose, how long of a section do you think I need? What kind of exhaust temps do your volvos see about 6 feet from the engine?

thermal expansion alone is going to require some room to work
I didnt see if you are using stainless for your piping but it really grows
exhaust temps are 1000+ near the engine at WOT
go to your daily driver after a good pull and see if you could stick your tongue on the exhaust system 6 feet from the manifold

your ride is an inspiration, keep up the good work

I drove an old International S Cab with a cummins and dual stacks that were mounted way too close to the grab bars
got a few good scars on my arms getting in and outa that thing
also had a scalemaster burn himself real fine trying to climb up to the cab

I have some of that kind of flex hose, how long of a section do you think I need? What kind of exhaust temps do your volvos see about 6 feet from the engine?

We use 12" of working length, so about 15" total. It slides over the hardpipe about 1.5" on each end. I think this would be fine in your application as well. We connect it to the hardpipe with clamps, but you could weld it. The pipe that connects to the turbo is only about 10" to 24" typically, and the flex connects to that. Temperature range is about 850-900F measured a few inches from the turbo outlet. You can get that stuff in aluminized steel, galvanized steel, and stainless steel.

thermal expansion alone is going to require some room to work
I didnt see if you are using stainless for your piping but it really grows
exhaust temps are 1000+ near the engine at WOT
go to your daily driver after a good pull and see if you could stick your tongue on the exhaust system 6 feet from the manifold

your ride is an inspiration, keep up the good work

WOT Exhaust temps, sure, but the temperature of the exhaust tubing will never come close to that unles the vehical is being run at wot for extended periods of time. I'll have to rig up some thermocouples some time and verify this, but I doubt the exhaust at the muffler of my truck has ever gotten over about 500 degrees.

We use 12" of working length, so about 15" total. It slides over the hardpipe about 1.5" on each end. I think this would be fine in your application as well. We connect it to the hardpipe with clamps, but you could weld it. The pipe that connects to the turbo is only about 10" to 24" typically, and the flex connects to that. Temperature range is about 850-900F measured a few inches from the turbo outlet. You can get that stuff in aluminized steel, galvanized steel, and stainless steel.


I'll fab up some couplings that are 12" flange to flange, and see how they work. I orderd some of the silicone couplings too, so I'll run them till they fail and swap in the flexable tubing you suggested when it fails :D.

This is a cool link I came across in my search for more information about silicone heat resistance. http://www.cableorganizer.com/fire-sleeve/

most jet-ski/seadoo's use a (what looks like rubber) hose to connect the exhaust to the waterbox. the pipes are watercooled to lower the temps but it still has alot of heat in there and usually lasts 3 or 4 years. most are 3 or 4 inches in dia. the only thing is they are preformed so i dont know if you could find the correct bend or not. i sell parts at a dealership so i would be glad to look for a bend if you think you could use something like that.

http://images.channeladvisor.com/Sell/SSProfiles/10058653/Images/reinCOUPLER_b.jpg

This is what I ordered. The shape will be perfect IMO, the chemical composition on the other hand... Who knows?! :grinpimp:

blue would be much cooler than the black ones i could get you. i think a yamaha has some that are about a foot long and have a 45 or so bend in them to run through the hull.

I actually bid on red ones on accident :( but hopefully he will get my email, and send two blue or black ones like I actually wanted.

Been following your progress for sometime now, very insperational. :smokin:

WOT Exhaust temps, sure, but the temperature of the exhaust tubing will never come close to that unles the vehical is being run at wot for extended periods of time. I'll have to rig up some thermocouples some time and verify this, but I doubt the exhaust at the muffler of my truck has ever gotten over about 500 degrees.

The temps I mentioned are at WOT at peak torque sustained on a chassis dyno for several hours until the temperatures stabilized. Minimum headwind as well. We try to simulate the worst possible conditions the trucks will see.

Is it wrong that that the Freak makes my "special purpose" all tingly? :goofball:



Sweet build, lots of fun to follow! :smokin:

I finished the cab mounts today, and started on the radiator mount. You might notice that the radiator is in a completely different position that pictured before. I think this will offer the best solution for air flow, and weight distribution.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=172469&stc=1

The radiator is sitting on a 22* angle and will be captured by the 1/2" sch 40 Pipe structure shown in the pictures. Im still undecided on how I will build the hold down mechanism, but I should have it finished tomorrow once I decide which of the two mounting options I have come up with I want to use.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=172470&stc=1

what are you going to mount next to the rad? were u overheating when u had it mounted right behind the cab?? u might have mentioned it before.. do u use stock gm waterpump or u had something else too ??

I was overheating during extended periods of road or high speed trail running. Rarely when in technical areas, or heavy mud (slow speed, or high throttle). The radiator used to be sitting perpendicular to the chassis, with the fan mounted within a few inches of the fuel tank. Not only did this heat my fuel, but I think it caused the fan to recirculate warm air. Also, during higher speed stuff, like driving down dirt roads to get to the trail head, I think the cab creates a slight vacuum in the area the fan was mounted. Just like when you throw a pop can in the back of your pickup truck, it always ends up at the front of the bed.

I am running a stock caddy pump, but will install a higher flow pump if I still have over heating problems. I will also build a shroud to fit two of the taurus fans if need be.

This rendition will have the fans mounted on the other side of the radiator, so that when it pulls air from the passenger side, it will blow the trucks exhaust fumes away from the passenger compartment rather than drawing it across back of the cab.

Here is a couple pictures of the old setup, in case nobody wants to dig through the thread.

Radiator Clamp in progress....

This is the start of a completely retarded mechanism to preload the radiator clamp. All thats really left is to cut the stud to length, and make a handle for it.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=172896&stc=1

The bung is 4140, the stud is 3/8" NC B7 all thread, and I machined the button out of 316L S.S.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=172893&stc=1

Incase you were wondering how this is going to work, and why Im doing it this way....

I dont have any room above the radiator, because of the bottom of the bed deck plate. The "clamp" allows me to move all the structure to the side of the radiator instead of above. To work the mechanism, you will pull up on the "handle" that sticks out to the left, then run the stud/button uptill it lightly pre-loads the radiator. Then you sinch down a little jam nut (havent made that yet).

Brook,

What keeps this foot from walking sideways?

Looking killer man.

Incase you were wondering how this is going to work, and why Im doing it this way....

Why don't you just use that orange radiator hold down strap in the pics? C'mon, you gotta do at least 1 thing ghetto fab or else we are all gonna look stupid by comparison.

good catch... I made some little stops that will get welded onto the tube the clamp pivots about. Nothing too fancy, just something to keep the clamp from moving too far one way or the other. I'll have pics of that, and the uber bling " jam nut" I made to lock the clamp adjuster. Its gonna be kinda cool in a completely redundant way :p other than using a nut driver to pull the hoses off, I will be able to pull the radiator out without using any tools :D

You know, I did consider using a ratchet strap. LOL.

Is there going to be any type of rubber or pad between the two metal's? So you do not rub a hole into that purdy radiator.

there is, you just cant see it in the pics

Cool deal, keep on makin us Chevy guy's look good.

Your idea's and Fab work are very impressive.

Lots of updates....

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=173582&stc=1

This handle is basically a jam nut that you dont have to use a wrench on. I was going to make a regular thin jam nut, but I didnt want to have to use any tools for this mechanism, so I got to thinking... "If I make the nut longer, I can get a better grip on it. You dont need a wrench to turn a screw driver.... Hmmm..."

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=173580&stc=1

So I made this thing. Its 2024 alum, but even still it was slightly too heavy, so I drilled it out, and sweated a little domed cap into the end to make it look cool. :smokin:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=173581&stc=1

Man, all I can say is you got way to many toys to play with. Looks great as always.

The clamp is finished, Speed holes and all.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=173591&stc=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=173592&stc=1

I was going to weld washers on the pivot tube to prevent the clamp from walking sideways, but that was kinda hack, so I made some "Shoulders" out of some alum and held them on with set screws instead.

The mout is complete. I made the gusset plates out of some Cold Rolled 18ga steel and dimpled them with my custom radiused dimple dies :D

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=173596&stc=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=173597&stc=1

This is the cap I made for my overflow tank. I was using the OEM cap which leaked when upside down, and it was kinda lame anyway.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=173598&stc=1

Installed in the tank my buddy Jerry Bickle build for me back in college...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=173599&stc=1

Hand formed dome on the bottom, pretty sweet :smokin:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=173600&stc=1

The plumbing is done! 2" aluminized exhaust tubing.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=173602&stc=1

Inlet side...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=173603&stc=1

Hanger... Made from 3/8" brake line, 3/8" rubber hose, and sleeved with 1/2" pipe to attach it to the frame.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=173604&stc=1

Outlet side...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=173605&stc=1

You know, I did consider using a ratchet strap. LOL.
I for one sure wish you would have gone this route, 'cause you are making toooo many of us look like hacks!

Your work is inspirational, and just flat badass.

Beautiful fab, as you very well know. I don't see how you find the time!

A few questions/notes I'm sure you've covered and just aren't pictured:
1. I trust you have soft mounts (i.e. radiator hose material) joining the hard lines to the engine and the radiator to accommodate torsion/flex. Looks like one is pictured on the outlet side...
2. A question--will the long run to the radiator require any kind of high-flow or other modified water pump?
3. A question--will the aluminized exhaust pipe being used for the hard line have any interaction issues with the coolant electrolyte? Sometimes you can get flaking and scaling. You might consider a coolant filter.
4. Looks like the inlet side runs right over the exhaust . . . do you think you need any kind of heat shield between there to prevent 'super-heating' your inlet hard line? I suppose with decent coolant flow, it won't be sitting in the inlet pipe long enough to pick up much heat from the exhaust, but just wondered.
5. Hard to have a good perspective from the pic, but is your hard line very exposed underneath to rock intrusion? Any kind of skid-plating necessary?
6. I wonder if Evans waterless coolant, which runs at zero pressure, would be good for this type of application. It would sure make trail repair easy if you had a rock get into the hard line--a little JB weld and you would be back on the trail almost immediately because the system is not pressurized, plus, seems it would be easier on the water pump with the distances involved.

Wow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i thought my rig was gonna bee cool untill i read this thread. now i am thinking of new ways to do everything, and i dont have time to be all inspired and such.

back to teh garage for me.

1. I trust you have soft mounts (i.e. radiator hose material) joining the hard lines to the engine and the radiator to accommodate torsion/flex. Looks like one is pictured on the outlet side...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=173640&stc=1

Kinda hard to see in this picture, but you can see where the hard line goes over the top of the drivers side valve cover, then turns into rubber hose where it goes into the t-stat housing.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=173648&stc=1

So, yes, there is rubber hose in several places along the line. For two reasons 1) ease of instal/service of the tubing. 2) chassis flex

Rubber couplings to aid install...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=173647&stc=1


2. A question--will the long run to the radiator require any kind of high-flow or other modified water pump?

Thats yet to be determined in my case. I have an aftermarket pump ready to install, but wanted to re-mount the radiator for increased air flow before I did it. If I was to do both mods at the same time, I would never be able to answer this question.


3. A question--will the aluminized exhaust pipe being used for the hard line have any interaction issues with the coolant electrolyte? Sometimes you can get flaking and scaling. You might consider a coolant filter.

There is no flaking or other adverse affects from the tubing coating. At least not that I cant tell. The tubing I used for this rendition is all used stuff that I have run for the last few years. It was cleaner on the inside than it was on the outside for sure, and really looked pretty damn good. Better than the inside of any engine I have ever torn apart lol.


4. Looks like the inlet side runs right over the exhaust . . . do you think you need any kind of heat shield between there to prevent 'super-heating' your inlet hard line? I suppose with decent coolant flow, it won't be sitting in the inlet pipe long enough to pick up much heat from the exhaust, but just wondered.

Thats definately a concern, but in reality its not much closer to the exhaust than it was before, and I think your right about the coolant flow thing. Air is an excelent insulator, but I will still shield the coolant tubes there anyway.



5. Hard to have a good perspective from the pic, but is your hard line very exposed underneath to rock intrusion? Any kind of skid-plating necessary?

The hard line is exposed to some extent, but it would take a very special rock or stump to damage it. At this point, I dont think skid plating would be worth the weight or effort. Denting the tube can be easily fixed, as could any leaks caused by rock damage. All it would take is to remove the tube, cut out the damaged section, and replace it with some 2" I.D. rubber hose I carry for a spare.



6. I wonder if Evans waterless coolant, which runs at zero pressure, would be good for this type of application. It would sure make trail repair easy if you had a rock get into the hard line--a little JB weld and you would be back on the trail almost immediately because the system is not pressurized, plus, seems it would be easier on the water pump with the distances involved.

I havent heard of that stuff before, I'll have to look into it.

Thank you for asking questions, its hard to cover everything without good questions. :)

A lot of the diesel crowd I run with swear by it. Here is a link for you:

http://www.evanscooling.com/index2.html

You have been quiet this week. Did you get stuck 10 days walk from civilization or something? :laughing: :laughing:

How did the D60 hold up with the Goodyears on? What have you broken? What modifications did you make to the D60 ? As I am in roughly the same terran as you and I am considering the Goodyears instead of the 44" Boggers. But since I always figured the boggers would be at the outside limits of the strength of a D60, I am now concerned that the goodyears will be too much tire. Since I wheel in some pretty remote areas reliability is an issue. I'm sure you can relate to that. :laughing:

Installed in the tank my buddy Jerry Bickle build for me back in college...

Is that Jerry Bickel from Missouri? Pro-Stock Chassis Builder Jerry Bickel?

How did the D60 hold up with the Goodyears on? What have you broken? What modifications did you make to the D60 ? As I am in roughly the same terran as you and I am considering the Goodyears instead of the 44" Boggers. But since I always figured the boggers would be at the outside limits of the strength of a D60, I am now concerned that the goodyears will be too much tire. Since I wheel in some pretty remote areas reliability is an issue. I'm sure you can relate to that. :laughing:


The goodyears are hard on the dana 60, definately more tire than a stock one can handle. I have broke some axles, and some hubs, but since I swaped to 35 spline outers and drive flanges, and learned where my limits are, I have not broken anything else. One thing that helps, I'm sure, is the limited slip in the front diff. A locker would prolly cause alot more problems, but hey! its only money right :p Alloys and ctms are going to be right behind the locker install im sure.

Get the terras, you wont be sorry if you wheel terrain thats mostly dirt.

Is that Jerry Bickel from Missouri? Pro-Stock Chassis Builder Jerry Bickel?

I wandered if anyone would catch that. Not the same guy though.

Lower spring mounts... the horizontal plate is 3/16 A36 plate, and the round gusset is 1/8" A36 flat bar. The half inch hole is for the shock mount.

Upper shock mount... Plate is 1/8" A36, and the tube is 1" A53A Pipe (sch 40) Wish I had some lighter tubing for this kind of stuff, but oh well.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=176375&stc=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=176376&stc=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=176377&stc=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=176378&stc=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=176379&stc=1

Fuel Tank extension stuff... The white cap is teflon, the black ring is some sort of rubber, and the rest is 6063 pipe and 6061 billet. I machined the tubes down to 1.75" and left the "bump" at 1.9" to help retain the hose. Not like it matters, since this is a zero pressure system, but why not eh? The hose pictured is just radiator hose, but Im looking for some 1.75" Tygon tubing. Not having any luck. I can only find 1.5" and 2". Guess I should have looked for the tubing before I designed and machined the barbed fittings. :rolleyes:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=176390&stc=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=176391&stc=1

In the last picture you can see how I mounted the filler neck. Its a piece of 3" .120 wall drive shaft tubing I had left over from the original build. Fit perfect There is a single button head tapped into the far side of the filler neck to hold the neck in place. I talked to the local parts store about using this flexable radiator hose for filler hose, and while they didnt recommend it, they said they get people coming in all the time who have done the exact same thing. They said it lasts a good 10 years before it starts to look bad, and people just replace it. Since it wont be submerged in fuel, other than when Im on my side, Im gonng go for it. If it fails I'll post here.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=176392&stc=1

This is a ghetto hydraulic press I made this weekend, so I could dimple the top of my gas tank hold down bracket. Unfortunatly it my bottle jack didn't have enough sack to complete the dimple! You can see the ring I practiced on to the bottom left of the picture. Its a good thing I made a practice piece cause I completely screwed that one up. The second one I had an idea to hammer on the top of the die with pressure on the jack. This method worked well, and I was able to get a full dimple out of it.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=176408&stc=1

6" dimple die!!!

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=176409&stc=1

Just a cosmetic plate on the out side end of the bracket...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=176410&stc=1

Notice the dimpled ring spot welded to the top of the tank. That fits tight around the flange welded on the top of the tank, so it will help keep the tank centered.

I didnt get much actually finished today, but I did get the tranny coolers mounted. Last year I had the little one mounted to the back of the cab, but it didnt have enough room to breathe properly. I had the tranny up to 260 at times. So this time I mounted it with plenty of room for air flow, and added another much larger cooler. If needed, I can duct it into the radiator fan shroud too. The mount is 18 ga cold rolled, bent into a channel, and notched to fit around the crossmember.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=176412&stc=1


http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=176411&stc=1

The goodyears are hard on the dana 60, definately more tire than a stock one can handle. I have broke some axles, and some hubs, but since I swaped to 35 spline outers and drive flanges, and learned where my limits are, I have not broken anything else. One thing that helps, I'm sure, is the limited slip in the front diff. A locker would prolly cause alot more problems, but hey! its only money right :p Alloys and ctms are going to be right behind the locker install im sure.

Get the terras, you wont be sorry if you wheel terrain thats mostly dirt.

I see you have beadlocks on now. What did you use for beadlocks? Did you just use a 16" beadlock or did you have one made for 16.1". Did you have any problems outting them on the 16.1" wheel. I was looking at using the 16.5-16.1 instead of the 18.4-16.1, but after doing some research I was sad to discover the tread depth of the 16.5 is only half as deep as the 18.4. So it looks like anything under a 18.4 is not really worth using.

P.S. Big fuel cell, did you put baffels in it? I had a 50 Gal aluminum fuel cell in my last truck and with it mounted up high like that I could really feel it slosh when I was half full. Decided there and then the next one would have baffels. :D

I designed them myself, and had a local guy plasma cut the rings, save one. I did that one with my drill press and cutting torch. You can just buy a kit for 16" wheels though.

The fuel tank is only 30 gallons, has no baffles, but its only 5" above the top of my axle. Its not that high is it? I can definately feel the fuel slosh, but I dont have any problem with it. I'd build my next one with baffles, but what the heck. I cant fill it with foam because I want to use a "clunk" for my fuel pickup.

I know Im a newbie and all, but I was wondering why you don't use a BM supercooler for you trans coolers. I think their big one would oultperform both of the ones you have. Plus they look better, and as trick as your truck is, I hate seeing those cheap auto parts store coolers on it.

The rest of the truck is bad ass though.

Im using them because I have them, and Im not made of money. The elect fan mounted on is a B&M unit, but I dont know the other one is. Neither of them are "cheap parts store coolers".

Brook,

Not sure if you are concerned with fuel starvation, but here goes.

I just finished the rebuild of my fuel cell. I have a 16 gallon Circle Track fuel cell from RCI. The cell is a flat bottom and came originally with one suction and one vent. I bought all new bulkhead fittings and installed one in the center of the front facing panel about 1" from the bottm. I used an AN barb fitting inside the tank and ran the push on hose to a Holley 12-951 multi-point pick up kit. This kit comes with two pick ups (not 3 as pictured :( ) and basically they have a check valve that senses pressure differential between fuel and air and sucks shut when the pickup pulls air. I mounted these on the floor - first one near the front of the tank, just off center to the left. I ran the next one to the rear of the cell, just off center to the right. I ran a return line (Pro Jection) in the original suction line place and used another AN barbed on the inside with push-on hose. Ran the hose down to the floor and let it curve to flat. I then installed foam on the bottom to hold down these components and maybe help a little with fuel slosh.

Take a look at these pick ups when you get a chance.

The fuel tank is only 30 gallons, has no baffles, but its only 5" above the top of my axle. Its not that high is it? .

Nope, 5" is'nt that high at all, mine was definatly higher (8"-10"). I guess I'm just not getting an actual picture of the cell placement from the photos.

Yea, I'm starting to think I should perhaps stick with the 40" boggers for another season and do some axle upgrades before I put the terras on. My detroit locker and my 30 spline outers will probly not get along well with them. On a brighter note I think I may be getting a set of 2.5 rockwells for nothing this week. If that happens it will be terras for sure next winter.

Brook,

Not sure if you are concerned with fuel starvation, but here goes.




I cant fill it with foam because I want to use a "clunk" for my fuel pickup.

A "clunk" pickup is a weighted hose and will stay at the lowest part of the tank, even if upside down.

bgreen, the rig is looking very good. Keep up the great work.

Dan

A "clunk" pickup is a weighted hose and will stay at the lowest part of the tank, even if upside down.

bgreen, the rig is looking very good. Keep up the great work.

Dan

Anyone find a swivel pickup for tranny pans?

Looks great. PS got the CD, looks great as well :grinpimp:

did you machine those parts with a CNC, or did u do it the old fashion way?

CNC baby, the old way is too slow :D

hey Bgreen
as always your fab work is PHENOMINAL! :D Quick ? for you, on the rear gas tank crossbar there is an angled receiver tube, what do you plan on using that for? :confused: I noticed you had one on the lower tube as well, why two if you don't mind me asking? Thanks,
:evil: SETHZILLA!

the upper mount is for the rear winch should I ever need the clearance. and so I can mount it in a more usable location for the gin poles.

http://pics.montypics.com/ak4x4/2004-12-28/1104291187_Gin_poles_03.jpg

Green are the poles, blue is the winch line. Red is the cables that hold the poles in the desired position. the red and blue dot is the sheeve.

I prolly wont keep the poles on the buggy all the time, or ever really. But I will make a mount for them on my trailer so they will be available if needed. The only time I would take the poles with me is when I am moose hunting.

I should be able to pick up 1000 lbs or more without getting crazy with large diameter tubing, Im sure gus (speedo) could lend more insight here. I could raise and lower the poles pretty easy if I set it up to run off the front winch, but I dont plan to. The load will raise and lower with the rear winch.

Your work is looking good, I've still got at least another month of snowmachining to look forward to before I get started on my rig. My gin poles were made with a 9' piece of 1" sch. 80 sleeved with a 6' piece of 1 1/4" sch. 40 with a 4.5' piece of 7/8" hot rolled round bar stuck in the small end with 6" exposed to mount the crown pulley set-up. The base used a short piece of 3/4" x 2.5" flat bar with 3/4" holes to pin it to the bumper. I've picked up whole moose that were well over 1,000 lbs. Diana bent one gin pole when she moved her rig with a moose in the air and dropped a tire in a hole and the load swung.
Once the weather warms up and the snow is gone we will have to get together so you can swap tires with Diana's so that you can try the 21.5s.

Gus

Heh.... Moose hunting with a trail rig.

Oh yeah... its Alaska. :smokin: I wish i lived in the Boonies.

right on, man i'd love to bag a moose someday. You definately have an awesome place to test your equipment guys! Can't wait to see this FREAK on the trail when it's finished!

:evil: SETHZILLA!

I havent had time to work on the buggy lately cause of work. We had some pretty serious carnage at work so I was working 12-16 hr days for the last few weeks. Finally this weekend, I got a day off, so here is the progress...

I wanted to put the batteries somewhere near the center of the vehicle, but also keep the COG low. I had a single battery mounted in this same approximate position last year, but needed to find a way to mount two, and keep them reasonably protected from rocks or other abuse, while keeping them fairly well accessable so I can remove them for remote welding use. Now, I know how everyone says you should never use a ratchet strap or a bungie cord to retain your battery, and I agree IF you are using a led acid battery. The ratchet strap I'm using is rated for 800 lbs, so I think its well capable for retaining a couple sub 30 lb batteries.

The mount was formed from some 3" .083 wall DOM drive shaft tubing. I had to form it to the battery by cutting it in half and forming it with a rubber dead blow hammer and my work bench. A few numb fingers, and some ringing ears later it fit the radius of the battery cells like a glove. I cut the tubing to fit just inside the top and bottom flanges on the batter, and bent it to match the radius of the cells, so it provides a very positive fit around the batter, and will not allow for any movement. The top was formed the same way, but was clearanced to fit around the side posts, which in this location are the top posts. The ratchet strap was looped and sewed back together by my wife Molly, to provide the correct lengths. The hooks were formed by heating and bending some 1/4" cold roll bar stock.

Heres the pics...

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=178449&stc=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=178450&stc=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=178451&stc=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=178452&stc=1

Wow, I just built a battery box too. But mine compared to yours is like comparing a sling shot to a target pistol. :( That is one very nice battery box/mount. I build booty fab crap and still can't seem to make progress, even if I had the skill, equipment, and creativity for that kind of work, I would never get it finished...

Dont tell anyone, but I spent the better part of 2 days figuring out how to mount two batteries there, and then building the mount to make it happen. :shaking:

I would silicon down some gasket rubber to that battery mount. The rubber will hold better and prevent some of the vibration and chaffing that the bare steel will do to the batterys.

There is no need. The batterys fit so tight in the mount there is no room for any kind of movement. That was the whole reason for the design, to prevent any kind of movement. Not to mention, batterys are only intended to last a few years, so if they do wear through it will have been long after the batter had served its normal life expectancy.

I spent the better part of the day trying to convert a miller hand amp to fit my Lincoln. No luck. Either the hand amp is toast, or Im just ignorant. :D

I spent some time working on getting my link mount cross member done and adding some fore and aft triangulation on the chassis. Sorry, forgot to get pictures. I stopped short anyway, since I wanted to get my exhaust mocked up before I put too much cross member tubing in the way. (its not going to be removable)

The exhaust, as you might recall, is run through the frame on the drivers side. I got the drivers side finished up, except for the final welding. The passenger side has proved to be much more complicated. The clearance between the clocked flat 205, and the body makes things very tight. I should end up with about 3/8" clearance between the tubing, boxed frame, t-case, and cab.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=179078&stc=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=179079&stc=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=179080&stc=1

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=179081&stc=1

And yes, I gave up on the silicone couplers and went with the flexible exhaust tubing recommended in this thread.

Looking good Brook.
Have you upgraded the EFI to feedback? I know that run on Hick's last year was pretty eye-watering when I was standing behind it.

I havent, but I should have the new digital projection on some time this summer.