I need to get a thread put on the end of my hydro-ram shaft.

I took it to a machinist who has done work for me before and he said he couldnt do it because it was to hard. Should i call around to some other machine shops and see what they say or am i SOL?

Iffn im SOL what other options do i have to be able to attatch this ram to its mini-tie-rods?

Help please. :(

Nate

Well, you could go and have the shaft stress relieved (annealed) and then thread it. Then you would have to go harden it again. A PITA for sure but I can think of another way to thread a hardened shaft.

What is on the end of it right now?

Originally posted by PIG
Well, you could go and have the shaft stress relieved (annealed) and then thread it. Then you would have to go harden it again. A PITA for sure but I can think of another way to thread a hardened shaft.

What is on the end of it right now?
:(

yeah.. i had thought about that, thing is i am a broke mo-fo right now. What happens to it if i weld on it? Does it weld like normal steel possibly, I'm sure that it will loose all its hardness if i do but ???

right now there is nothing on the end of it. Theres .935" of that is left sticking out at minimum stroke with a 1/8" chamfer on the end.


:( CRAAAAAAAAAAAAAP!

It sounds like you are trying to put a male thread on this shaft?

What is the shaft dia.? If the shaft dia. is large enough, you should be able to bore and tap a female thread in the shaft. The shaft is probably only case hardened/chromed. The depth of the heat treat should be bo more than .125".


Sean

thanks station. I dont really think that it is large enough to do that though.. only 3/4" shaft . "IF" it was only 1/8" hardened then that would only leave me room for 1/2" bolt and i really dont think that that would suffice.

How do i go about testing or finding out how deep the hardness actually is?

Sean, have you gottem my e-mails? I havent heard back from you yet.

thanks,
nate

Go try another machinist. We have turned down and cut threads on several hyd. cylinder shafts on a lathe using a carbide cutter with no need to anneal. Yes it is harder than free machining steel but nothing a good machinist can't handle. (Even the hard chrome plating chips off fairly easily). They are not case hardened.

Originally posted by ROCKSFORBRAINS
Go try another machinist. We have turned down and cut threads on several hyd. cylinder shafts on a lathe using a carbide cutter with no need to anneal. Yes it is harder than free machining steel but nothing a good machinist can't handle. (Even the hard chrome plating chips off fairly easily). They are not case hardened.

thats what i was hopeing for, If i knew how the hell to run a thread on my lathe i'd of put a carbide bit in there and gone for it.

about the chrome chipping: saaaaaaaay.. i take it to a machinist, and he actually does get the thread on , but chips the chrome off enough that the ram leaks because of this lack of surface. Then am i just SOL, live with the leak or buy a new ram, or is it the machinists problem. ?? theroetically speaking of course.

Just make sure and give the machinist a good measurement and tell him to go no further than that. Leave yourself at least 3/16 of untouched rod sticking out of the body at full compression. The chrome *shoudln't* flake off past the end of the cut. I think you're safe there. But just to be safe you could score an .025" deep line at the end of the cut with a grinder. This will give the lathe operater a nice line to go by too.

I hate to be a pessimist but the guy will probably tell you if it doesn't work it's your baby

Originally posted by ROCKSFORBRAINS
Just make sure and give the machinist a good measurement and tell him to go no further than that. Leave yourself at least 3/16 of rod sticking out of the body at full compression. The chrome *shoudln't* flake off past the end of the cut. I think you're safe there. But just to be safe you could score an .025" deep line at the end of the cut with a grinder. This will give the lathe operater a nice line to go by too.

what do you mean "leave @ least 3/16" sticking out @ full compression??

right now at full compression i have .935 of it left. I was hopeing to get a full 3/4" of thread on each end of this ram.

You say that there is around 15/16" of shaft sticking out from the cylinder when full retracted, right?? Then this is what I´d do.......

Using a Dremel and a thin wheel, cut a ring around the shaft 13/16" from the end, just cutting thru the chrome plating, not getting into the shaft steel itself. This way, when you cut the 34-16 UNF x 3/4" long thread on the shaft, there´ll be no risk of the plating chipping off in the seal area......

HTH

Some cylinders do have case hardened shafts. Any cylinder put into professional use, that will see contact with stones will/should have a hardened shaft. My double ended steering cylinders that I make have a hardened , chromed shaft.

Sean

Sceep, I will be getting to your e-mails this morning, I just have about 5 more left to answer before I get to yours.

I try to stay away from the computer on weekends because of how much I am on it during the week.

Sean

I edited my last post but maybe you didn't catch it. .935 minus .75= .185. Score your line at .740 from the end of the rod & thread up to that line. Then you'll have 3/16 of untouched rod left.:D

sounds like i might be cheaper to get a new ram? they have 1.5" bore 8" stroke rams at atwoods for 69.99 or so...(and my buddy works there so i get 20% off anything i buy :D )

just a thought.:confused:

Originally posted by Chrisjeep7
sounds like i might be cheaper to get a new ram? they have 1.5" bore 8" stroke rams at atwoods for 69.99 or so...(and my buddy works there so i get 20% off anything i buy :D )

just a thought.:confused:

iffn you can find me a double ended, rebuildable, 8" stroke ram for that price let me know ;) plans are already set for this ram, just a slight oversight. :(

thanks rocksforbrains that makes much more sence. ;) that was my plan from the getgo.. lol

if that is a double ended ram for that price i would say to jump on it. but the ram sceep has is a side shift ram from a fork truck that is brand new. i would check around for another machine shop. i had a guy heere that was going to do it for me but then i sold the full hydro set up to sceep. it can be done with the right insert. mike

looks like we posted at the same time sceep

Originally posted by gunracer1
if that is a double ended ram for that price i would say to jump on it. but the ram sceep has is a side shift ram from a fork truck that is brand new. i would check around for another machine shop. i had a guy heere that was going to do it for me but then i sold the full hydro set up to sceep. it can be done with the right insert. mike

i was wondering if you would chime in on this ;).. lol.. thanks for the input, i will be making some calls @ lunch today,

just to hijack my own thread... what were your plans to adapt this orbital to your steering shaft mike? I'm racking every resource i have trying to find something that wil mate that 19 spline orbital input to my stock steering shaft.

use a c5 or c6 carbide cutter to cut the hard crome and cut the the threads at 75 to 125 sfm. i just got this from a buddie of mine that know his shit. the steel beneath the coating cannot be harder than a rockell 60 so damn near any carbide threading insert can cut the threads.but he said to spend a buck or two extra to get a tin coated one. i am not 100% sure i got the coating prefix right. mike

i was just going to bore out a ujoint to fit over it and weld it up. that was my plan anyway. mike

:mad: ACK this thing is driving me crazy.

Ok, after calling numeros(sp?) shops around town here the concensus is. No can thread.

so option #1.

send this thing off to gunracer who can hopefully have his buddy who says it can be done, do it.

Option #2.

what do you all think of this. If it is indeed case hardened to ~.125", bore and tap a 1/2" thread into the inside of this thing, Then make a cup that press fits the OD of the rod, and threads into the end. the cup should be able to transfer any lateral loads that the bolt may encounter, to the shaft. BUT, will the 1/2" bolt be able to withstand the pullout force exerted by the ram if say, you have a tire pinched against a rock and have to turn it.

Seems option 2 would work great if i ran a normal tie rod, in addition to the 2 tie rods off the end of the ram. Problem is... I cant, space wont alow it. so. will a 1/2" bolt handle that kind of pullout force?

Option #3.
see if station can just sell me a piston/shaft ass'y.

Option #4. re-design everything for a single ended ram.


3 & 4 suck.... i have very little $ to work with here.

2 is cheapest


:confused:

what about welding? it may F-up the hardening but seems like it may be stronger then a half inch bolt. I guess you could try the half inch bolt and if that doesnt work then weld it.

Originally posted by NE-RokToy
what about welding? it may F-up the hardening but seems like it may be stronger then a half inch bolt. I guess you could try the half inch bolt and if that doesnt work then weld it.

welding is kind of a last resort at the moment. Problem with it being, loss of harness, and , whatever i weld onto it has to be able to fit thru the ram body to retain its re-buildability.

:mad:

If you can guarantee pure tension loading on the 1/2" bolt using your press-fit idea, it should work just dandy. With no bending loads, that size bolt is really, really strong.

Go with UNF threads and slop on some Loctite..........

Originally posted by billj
If you can guarantee pure tension loading on the 1/2" bolt using your press-fit idea, it should work just dandy. With no bending loads, that size bolt is really, really strong.

Go with UNF threads and slop on some Loctite..........

is it really strong enough to be the only link that holds the knuckle to the steering though? it should never have anything but a tension load on it since the press fit cup should take any lateral loads off of the bolt.


hmm..

*still debating*

Nate.

how do the fork lifts do it?

what about a press fit with a 1/2" bolt through it cross ways like a trailer hitch uses? Then you only have to drill a 1/2" hole through it no tapping the hole.

Just a thought.

Originally posted by Chet
how do the fork lifts do it?

what about a press fit with a 1/2" bolt through it cross ways like a trailer hitch uses? Then you only have to drill a 1/2" hole through it no tapping the hole.

Just a thought.

i'm pretty sure that on the forklift, it has , like, a 3rd tie rod, that goes over the top of the ram, to both ends, with an adjustable cup on each end to grab the end of the shaft, and also , clevis' to grab the other two tie rods.


i was under the impression that if i couldn't thread it because of the hardenning that it wouldnt be drillable either. anyone second that?? if in fact i could, then that solves alot of my problems. :confused:

Hey sceep I am a machinist and have machined on and replaced many cylinder shafts (worked in a job shop that did A LOT of Ag work), and I can't remember treading the OD on any of them, I did drill and tap the end of them as you are suggesting w/o the press fit C'bore. That doesn't mean it can't be done, I have turned a bunch of Thompson shaft (basically the same thing) and I'm pretty sure I could thread it.

If you find someone thread it for you just tell them how long you want the thread, any compitent machinst shouldn't have a problem with that.

Hope that helps.

Bryan

EDIT: It would be tough to drill. I don't think I would be able to do it at home and at work it would take a carbide end mill to get through the hardened surface. I would rather try threading the OD.

Originally posted by Magoo
Hey sceep I am a machinist and have machined on and replaced many cylinder shafts (worked in a job shop that did A LOT of Ag work), and I can't remember treading the OD on any of them. That doesn't mean it can't be done, I have turned a bunch of Thompson shaft (basically the same thing) and I'm pretty sure I could thread it.

If you find someone thread it for you just tell them how long you want the thread, any compitent machinst shouldn't have a problem with that.

Hope that helps.

Bryan

i have called 15+ MAJOR job shops here in albuquerque and they have all told me the same thing, "cant be done" "UNLESS... you can find someone to grind the threads in, and we dont know anyone that can do that"

:(

This is where you seperate the men from the boys :D

You would have to take your time at a SLOW RPM and know what you're doing. Working in the shop I did you pushed your experience envelope on a daily basis, maybe that's why I think I can do it- I have found few problems I can't solve.

Originally posted by Magoo
This is where you seperate the men from the boys :D

You would have to take your time at a SLOW RPM and know what you're doing. Working in the shop I did you pushed your experience envelope on a daily basis, maybe that's why I think I can do it- I have found few problems I can't solve.

if i cant find a solution here soon ........... you wanna give it a shot? I'll fed-ex it to ya. whats the worse that can happen, you'll fawk it up. well.. i cant use the damn thing anyway right.. lol

Nate.

Sure just PM me here and I'll give you the address.

EDIT: If for some reason I can't do it, I have a few people up here I can try. Sometimes being in the industry helps :D