So I got those 38.5x14.50s on Snoopy the other day and thought that I should see how they work. So I drove to a rock pile that I always eye and decided to see how she'd do.

First shot was easy

http://kronos3.konnections.com/ih/rmb/snoopy/110501/2.jpg

Then I tried some different lines:
http://kronos3.konnections.com/ih/rmb/snoopy/110501/10.jpg
http://kronos3.konnections.com/ih/rmb/snoopy/110501/3.jpg
http://kronos3.konnections.com/ih/rmb/snoopy/110501/4.jpg

All in all I was quite happy - didn't even get nervous about tipping back or floppin' to the side.

Specs:
*1967 Scout 800
*196 4-cyl
*T90aa 3-speed (self destructing - for the last year)
*Dana18 TwinStick
*Scout II D44s w/ 4.89 gears
*Detroit TrueTrac Rear/TracLock Front (Both LS)
*SOA w/ RS - extended wheel base to 102.5" (2.5"over stock)
*38.5x14.50 SuperSwamper TSL/SX on 15x10s
Pretty good for mostly stock components! (accept the axles) Funny that I just sold the axles and now I'm lining up those Full-Width D44s - I'll keep ya posted. Oh yes - more pictures are posted at: The last page of my buildup (http://www.dandcextreme.com/beater/800/lean4.html)

:massey:

Once again, you are using Massey's icon when you aren't Massey. Then again, maybe you are, puny axles and big tires... :rolleyes: nice cage too. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by 61Scout
Once again, you are using Massey's icon when you aren't Massey.

I have no idea why you make such a big deal about this icon thing - I originally saw it in the smiles menu and liked it. Didn't think that was a crime

:cool:
(gee - do you know someone named cool too? :rolleyes: )

Hey Snoop..as I stated in the other "smack-down" about Massey post...Massey is a guy (Kevin Massey) that has been known to wear a red wig on occassion...that's the deal with the icon.

Now, back to your rig. Are you telling me that the front tires won't rub when you are not turning the wheel? It looks like you need to break out the sawzall again...

This is the one and only Massey:massey:

Or you can see him getting WINCHED out of the Sluice here...

I hope your panties aren't too knotted up Snoopy. I'm just saying I sure wouldn't go around using an icon if I had no idea what it meant. Part of my job is educating newbies.

Originally posted by Snoopy
So I got those 38.5x14.50s on Snoopy the other day and thought that I should see how they work. So I drove to a rock pile that I always eye and decided to see how she'd do.

:massey:

Nice rollcage ya got there.

Joe

Originally posted by Josad


Nice rollcage ya got there.

Joe

;) My GF's street 800 even has a 'bar in it.. and she doesn't even drive like I do. :D :D

Originally posted by Scout Dude 64
Hey Snoop..as I stated in the other "smack-down" about Massey post...Massey is a guy (Kevin Massey) that has been known to wear a red wig on occassion...that's the deal with the icon.

Now, back to your rig. Are you telling me that the front tires won't rub when you are not turning the wheel? It looks like you need to break out the sawzall again...

Is it he also know for his ability to wheel?

Originally posted by tsm1mt


;) My GF's street 800 even has a 'bar in it.. and she doesn't even drive like I do. :D :D

Nobody drives like you do Tom :flipoff2:

Joe

Originally posted by Snoopy
http://kronos3.konnections.com/ih/rmb/snoopy/110501/2.jpg



*196 4-cyl
*T90aa 3-speed (self destructing - for the last year)
*Dana18 TwinStick
*Scout II D44s w/ 4.89 gears
*Detroit TrueTrac Rear/TracLock Front (Both LS)


What's with the shocks, are you trying to control wheel hop? And can it flex more, or are you fender limited? Are you replacing the 196, T90, and Dana 18? What's up with the LS's, lockers in the plans?

Originally posted by jdjanda


What's with the shocks, are you trying to control wheel hop?

The rear shocks were a 5 minute exercise to allow me to drive on the street without hoopin' all over the place (the old 36s were very out-of-round, but they wheeled good).

Originally posted by jdjanda


And can it flex more, or are you fender limited?

Yes, it can flex more - that was just the biggest rock I could find in the area. Snoopy actually took 1st place at the RMIHR '01 in the modified class driving up the RTI 102" - I've only got the SOA & RS without any weight in the back (no spare, cut up half cab, etc) - sure it didn't compare to Dan (red 800), Dave (coil'd/cantilevered 800) or Eric's (deisel SII) rigs but then again I don't have the suspension that they do....yet.

Originally posted by jdjanda


What's up with the LS's, lockers in the plans?

The axles it has in these pictures are actually now sold to a Jeeper in Wisconsin. THey fit her needs and she was willing to pay $$ for them. With that money I'm taking the Full-Width Dana44s off my Travelall and building them with a Spool rear & Auburn Posi front w/ 4.89 (or 5.13 ~ haven't decided for sure). I'm also aquired a set of axles for the Travelall (HD-Dana44 front and Corp14 Bolt rear - LS w/ 4.10) The bigger axles under the T-all will make it so that I don't have to worry about snapping the rear axle with the very healthy 392 it has. It will then be painted and become my DD & tow rig for Long-Distance trails/events (Moab, Rubicon, Hammers, Montrose, Tulare, Nats, NWR, etc).

One reason I'm going to full-width D44s is because (1) I have them, (2) the 196 doesn't have the power to :nuke: them (I hope) (3) the wider stance will give me tighter turning and better stance/stability and finally (4) we are replacing the Lil Mule (Pro2) with it. The wider axles have better mounting for links, coils(front) and 1/4 elliptic(rear) ~ which it will be getting VERY soon.

Originally posted by jdjanda


Are you replacing the 196, T90, and Dana 18?

The 196 is staying. Its healthy, gets terrific MPG and works great off-road. I was on Hackett Gultch the other month and my starter fried before we left, I left it running from 3pm to 1am and still had 1/2 a tank of gas in one tank and 1/8 in the other (both are 8-9 gallon tanks)

It has plenty of tourque for what I want it to do. Actually I built the LS difs so I can have more control in the snow/rain/mud. Its a daily driver so being a trail-rig was a complete imposibility. Besides, it still has manual steering - lockers would make it even harder to steer.

The very near future will provide Snoopy w/ Power Steering, a T18(close - I need the 3rd gear for the mountains around here) and a Dana20 (3.15:1 low) - those mods will improve my 36:1 crawl and give me a 69:1(ish) crawl - which is all I want since it needs to stay streetable.

Originally posted by Old Scout
This is the one and only Massey:massey:

With no disrespect intended - the "Massey" I figured was Massey Gray - a lady singer that sings like she is drunk 100% of the time and has mangled red hair and dark glasses on (blood-shot eyes?).

Either way - but since you're making such a huge deal about it

This one is for you :beer: ~

Originally posted by Snoopy

Full-Width Dana44s off my Travelall and building them with a Spool rear & Auburn Posi front w/ 4.89 (or 5.13 ~ haven't decided for sure).


OK, later on you say "still streetable" but up here you say SPOOL. Which is it? Street or dragstrip? Lock it with automatic lockers and be done with it.

Spools are for going in a straight line.


I'm also aquired a set of axles for the Travelall (HD-Dana44 front and Corp14 Bolt rear - LS w/ 4.10) The bigger axles under the T-all will make it so that I don't have to worry about snapping the rear axle with the very healthy 392 it has. It will then be painted and become my DD & tow rig for Long-Distance trails/events (Moab, Rubicon, Hammers, Montrose, Tulare, Nats, NWR, etc).


I was never worried about snapping an axle from my 392.. I was more concerned about overloading the semi-float axle bearing (weight) with my trailer hooked up.

I also found the 1/2T suspension too soft... so I skipped over the 3/4T upgrades and just bought a tonner. :)


The 196 is staying. Its healthy, gets terrific MPG and works great off-road.


What kind of mileage does your 196 get in town? I averaged 12mpg highway when I yanked my 196 out for a 304 - that did 14mpg.


I was on Hackett Gultch the other month and my starter fried before we left, I left it running from 3pm to 1am and still had 1/2 a tank of gas in one tank and 1/8 in the other (both are 8-9 gallon tanks)


My 345 will idle all day on fumes, too - but I can also watch the temp gauge climb. :D

Originally posted by Scout Dude
Now, back to your rig. Are you telling me that the front tires won't rub when you are not turning the wheel? It looks like you need to break out the sawzall again...

The only place the tires hit on these rocks were the front blinkers - when flexed and turned. I haven't upgraded to the Scout II steering yet so the tiny stock pitman arm has limited my steering to the left and the tires dig into the springs on right-turns. One of the key reasons for going to full-width axles.

Considerable suspension mods in the near future will be keeping the tires out of the body work (if you can call it that) in the future.

D

Originally posted by tsm1mt


OK, later on you say "still streetable" but up here you say SPOOL. Which is it? Street or dragstrip? Lock it with automatic lockers and be done with it.

Spools are for going in a straight line.

Ya, but I have yet to meet a Detroit that unlocks on the pavement - which to me means I might as well save the $$ and get a spool. Detroits are $500 and Spools are $180. For me the decission is pretty clear. I've yet to buy either one though - so please (everyone) feel free to comment.


What kind of mileage does your 196 get in town? I averaged 12mpg highway when I yanked my 196 out for a 304 - that did 14mpg.
Last time I checked I was getting close to 20 mpg. But the speedo has been broke for some time and I can't get current figures. But remember Snoopy is much lighter than you Scout II. As far as temp - Snoop stays at the same place despite speed, load, anything.

I also found the 1/2T suspension too soft... so I skipped over the 3/4T upgrades and just bought a tonner.
This T-all has new springs that are quite nice. If I need, air-assist can be arranged. I'm only looking to tow Snoopy around.

Originally posted by Snoopy

Ya, but I have yet to meet a Detroit that unlocks on the pavement - which to me means I might as well save the $$ and get a spool. Detroits are $500 and Spools are $180. For me the decission is pretty clear. I've yet to buy either one though - so please (everyone) feel free to comment.



Who does your gear setups? :D

All of my friends' Detroits unlock just fine on the street - though they don't usually drive their rigs on the street.

It's a common joke when we're meeting to go wheelin'.. someone pulls into the lot and pulls up along side of us and we hear the PINK (no SoftLockers in *this* group!).. "Hey, your rear end is broken, it's making noises!!"

Who does your gear setups? :D
I do - we used to use the same guy that rebuilt all of GUS's stuff but he has since retired.

All of my friends' Detroits unlock just fine on the street - though they don't usually drive their rigs on the street.
Ya, my Detroit EZLocker did too - but all the guys I know who run Full Detroits (despite the installer) get chirping.

Originally posted by Snoopy

I do - we used to use the same guy that rebuilt all of GUS's stuff but he has since retired.


Ya, my Detroit EZLocker did too - but all the guys I know who run Full Detroits (despite the installer) get chirping.

I think you'll always have SOME chirping.. but that doesn't mean it "never" unlocks.

Sounds like those guys' tires don't have enough traction.

Originally posted by tsm1mt


OK, later on you say "still streetable" but up here you say SPOOL. Which is it? Street or dragstrip? Lock it with automatic lockers and be done with it.

Spools are for going in a straight line.



:rolleyes: Puh-leaze. A spool is just as streetable as a detroit in a rig that is primarily designed for the trail.

Originally posted by Ben W


:rolleyes: Puh-leaze. A spool is just as streetable as a detroit in a rig that is primarily designed for the trail.

I agree, I can still turn fine after spoolinating my trac-loc.

Originally posted by Hayraker


I agree, I can still turn fine after spoolinating my trac-loc.

I guess I was doing something wrong then when I smacked all those trees because my rig wouldn't turn...

If a Spool is so great, why do people continue to waste their money on ARBs?

Originally posted by tsm1mt


I guess I was doing something wrong then when I smacked all those trees because my rig wouldn't turn...


Better add some facts to back this up. Let me guess, broken LR in the front and a Traclock in the rear.


Originally posted by tsm1mt


If a Spool is so great, why do people continue to waste their money on ARBs?

I didn't realize we were comparing a spool to an ARB? The ARB is SELECTABLE. That means open sometimes and spooled other times. I sure didn't see anyone say a full time SPOOL is comparable to an OPEN diff. ARB's are great if you do ALOT of driving on the street. If what you want is a trail rig that is streetable (driven on the street, but not daily) then a spool and a DETROIT are comparable.

Originally posted by tsm1mt


I guess I was doing something wrong then when I smacked all those trees because my rig wouldn't turn...

If a Spool is so great, why do people continue to waste their money on ARBs?

Uh, I thought we were talking rear-end. Nobody except the guys with TJs and Defender 90s waist money on ARBs in the rear!
:rasta:

Originally posted by Ben W


Better add some facts to back this up. Let me guess, broken LR in the front and a Traclock in the rear.


Caught me! Tho' you could substitute "open" for the rear..

The LR would unlock one way, not the other. No left turns.

I agree a rear spool would probably let you turn - by dragging tires, or by twisting axle shafts to allow for some differentiation.

Neither of which are Good Things, and if you're aired down on a high traction surface.. can you STILL turn with a rear spool?


I didn't realize we were comparing a spool to an ARB? The ARB is SELECTABLE. That means open sometimes and spooled other times. I sure didn't see anyone say a full time SPOOL is comparable to an OPEN diff. ARB's are great if you do ALOT of driving on the street. If what you want is a trail rig that is streetable (driven on the street, but not daily) then a spool and a DETROIT are comparable.

Damian specifically said he needs his Scout to still be streetable. Currently it's his Daily Driver. That says "a lot" of street driving to me.

Everyone with an ARB talks about the great on-road (zero downside) handling, but they also talk about constantly flipping switches - Turn the ARB on, make the climb, turn it off, make the turn, turn it back on, turn it back off..

No one I know gets to the trail head, turns on the ARB, and forgets about it. Which is basically the same off-road capabilities as a full spool.
If they have an ARB, they're manning the switches. If they forget to turn the ARB off, they complain about an inability to steer.

In what situation is a SPOOL preferable to a Detroit or other Auto-locker? Other than $$$? Let's leave 40-spline 9" exotic stuff where a Detroit isn't available or won't fit out of the equation..

Even my racing friends curse spools. They've tried 'em - back only - and found that, even with their foot in the throttle and purposefully sliding turns on relatively loose terrain (no slickrock) n' such the spool just didn't work for 'em - couldn't turn, and they were slower.

'course, Drag ETs went up.. but most just run open for anything that involves turning.

Originally posted by tsm1mt


I guess I was doing something wrong then when I smacked all those trees because my rig wouldn't turn...

If a Spool is so great, why do people continue to waste their money on ARBs?

I have not smacked any trees since I welded the rear and put the locker in the front.

I smacked those trees because the trac-lock didn't hold and my left front finally caught a grip and threw me at those trees.

As for ARB's they are cool enough, but if money were no problem I would still go detroit or spool in the rear and OX up front. Since money is a factor I have a welded trac-loc out back and lock-right up front. That is until...................

I get the two d60's under it, then I will have a WELDED rear and a lock-right up front because money is still a factor.

I will admit, I would not want my daily driver to be spooled, BUT, I didn't think we were talking daily drivers, just keeping a trail rig streetable.

Originally posted by tsm1mt


Caught me! Tho' you could substitute "open" for the rear..

The LR would unlock one way, not the other. No left turns.

I agree a rear spool would probably let you turn - by dragging tires, or by twisting axle shafts to allow for some differentiation.

Neither of which are Good Things, and if you're aired down on a high traction surface.. can you STILL turn with a rear spool?


WHY are you trying to compare apples to oranges? Noone is talking about putting a spool in the front. Yes you can turn with a rear spool aired down. Yes the tires drag. Does it matter? NO. A detroit under power acts just like a spool.



Originally posted by tsm1mt


Damian specifically said he needs his Scout to still be streetable. Currently it's his Daily Driver. That says "a lot" of street driving to me.


He said the travelall is becoming his DD. To me by saying streetable, he is saying occasional drive to work or other place, and can drive to the trail if desired.


Originally posted by tsm1mt


Everyone with an ARB talks about the great on-road (zero downside) handling, but they also talk about constantly flipping switches - Turn the ARB on, make the climb, turn it off, make the turn, turn it back on, turn it back off..

No one I know gets to the trail head, turns on the ARB, and forgets about it. Which is basically the same off-road capabilities as a full spool.
If they have an ARB, they're manning the switches. If they forget to turn the ARB off, they complain about an inability to steer.

In what situation is a SPOOL preferable to a Detroit or other Auto-locker? Other than $$$? Let's leave 40-spline 9" exotic stuff where a Detroit isn't available or won't fit out of the equation..

Even my racing friends curse spools. They've tried 'em - back only - and found that, even with their foot in the throttle and purposefully sliding turns on relatively loose terrain (no slickrock) n' such the spool just didn't work for 'em - couldn't turn, and they were slower.

'course, Drag ETs went up.. but most just run open for anything that involves turning.

Once again you are comparing apples to oranges. A spool is not comparable to an ARB. Compare a vehicle with a rear Detroit, to a similar vehicle with a rear spool. Not going to be much difference. Pull a guy out of an ARB'd rig and throw him in a Detroited rig he is going to complain just as loudly about not being able to turn as he is in the spooled rig. Drop the whole ARB thing and stick to detroit vs. spool.

WHO here is talking about racing, besides you? I don't think Damian has any intention of racing Snoopy. We are talking about trail riding and rockcrawling.

Tom, your homework for the weekend is to go weld up a spare carrier and install it in the rear of your trail rig. Then go drive around town a little bit, and do some wheeling. Report back to us on Monday on how it worked out. :)

Originally posted by Ben W
Tom, your homework for the weekend is to go weld up a spare carrier and install it in the rear of your trail rig. Then go drive around town a little bit, and do some wheeling. Report back to us on Monday on how it worked out. :)

Actually, I was just searching online for a Mini-spool.. :D

I can't find any that'll fit a TrashLok carrier.. and thus far, none for an open '44 carrier either.. just full spools.

Closest bit of info was this from Reider:


Lightweight high-strength one piece spools are designed for all-out competition. Available in various spline counts for Ford 8.8" & 9", GM 10 & 12 bolt, Chrysler 83/4 and Dana 60 axles. Mini spools also available for many applications. NOT FOR STREET USE!


I was hoping to avoid setting up the gears just yet - I'm holding off for bigger things. :) Nor do I have the time - I'm still working on the garage. I don't WANT to weld it (may have a use for the assembly in something else) - nor do I have the 50amp 220 outlet wired yet.. (tho' I do have a buddy's gas generator/stick welder..)

Anyone know of a mini-spool that'll fit my 30sp TrashLok carrier? I'll try it..

What are you saving a trashlock carrier for? WELD IT!

Originally posted by Ben W

Once again you are comparing apples to oranges. A spool is not comparable to an ARB.


Why not? A locked ARB is a spool. Period.

So with the ARB on, it's the same as driving with a spool.

The only difference is you can turn the ARB off.

I'm asking why, if you CAN turn the spool on/off, people do. EVEN ON THE TRAIL.

They could leave the ARB ON and drive just like they had a rear spool all day, but they choose not to.

WHO here is talking about racing, besides you? I don't think Damian has any intention of racing Snoopy. We are talking about trail riding and rockcrawling.

Right. I only mentioned "racing" because it's a situation where you're NOT trying to turn slowly on slick rock in a high-traction area - it should be EASIER to turn. I would expect, if spools are popular, to find a lot more on the race course where street-ability isn't even a minor factor.

But I don't.

And "no one" here runs a spool in anything BUT a strictly race vehicle. Straight line cars, or off-road racing 4x4s. Nothing else.

I've never seen a spooled rig on a trail ride in Montana, and we're all cheap SOBs that wouldn't spend money on a Detroit if the Lincoln would do the trick..

Originally posted by Ben W
What are you saving a trashlock carrier for? WELD IT!

Front of the racer. It's the only thing I can think of that might possibly benefit from it.. otherwise I have no use for the LS.

Plus.. remember, I think I won't like a spooled rear, so it'd be nice to be able to "take it out" and go back to the open/Trashlok. ;)

I used to drive my Scout a LOT on the street until last spring when I smashed the tub.. and I despise the TrashLok in the winter (on the street and off) as it is for wanting to slide turns.

There's really no way for me to convice you. The only way is to try it for yourself. For a trail rig (even one that gets driven to the trails) spooled/welded works great. I would not weld/spool ANYTHING that gets driven on the highway in the winter. For that ARB/OX or open is the best choice.

Originally posted by Ben W
What are you saving a trashlock carrier for? WELD IT!

For a resto Scout II project. That's why he's willing to buy my NOS 4.10's for $250.00 bones.

Joe

Originally posted by Ben W
There's really no way for me to convice you. The only way is to try it for yourself. For a trail rig (even one that gets driven to the trails) spooled/welded works great. I would not weld/spool ANYTHING that gets driven on the highway in the winter. For that ARB/OX or open is the best choice.

I'm willing to give it a try, but I don't want to destroy anything that's still marginally useful to me in the process. Maybe a mini-spool for the rear when I get a 60 ready to go.. then if I'm not happy, a Lockright?..

Unfortunately, almost ALL of our trails require highway time to get there. Most of our trail rides start about 15/20 miles south on I-15, and the most fun time to play is in the winter when the snow makes things a challenge. Fortunately, the fun lasts a long time.. like our winter.

I'm moving towards trailering my rig, but I wasn't planning on towing it 15 miles to play - not quite "that" extreme. :D

If I don't take the Interstate to the trailhead, it's 15-20 miles of curvy 2-lane "frontage road" instead.. I'd rather take my chances on the highway.

Originally posted by jdjanda


For a resto Scout II project. That's why he's willing to buy my NOS 4.10's for $250.00 bones.

Joe

LOL. I'd need a new carrier for a resto-project.. since mine's been chewed by the pinion and has grooves in it - not as bad as the pics of Lance's Detroit (Hmm.. no spool?) but it's been chewed on.

Yes, I tightened the pinion nut up. :D

I was thinking of either putting the axles under a "street Scout" or selling them complete to a Jeeper for big bucks. :D

Spool that POS and go!!!!!

Originally posted by cornfedred
Spool that POS and go!!!!!

Somebody keeps using the search feature:flipoff2:

Originally posted by cornfedred
Spool that POS and go!!!!!

DAN got search :flipoff2:

why are you selling some:question:
back at ya:flipoff2:

I dont understand

Originally posted by cornfedred
I dont understand

Soon you will, young grasshopper..soon...:flipoff2:

Just spool it or weld it, Lockrights and Ez-lockers suck in the rear on the street, mine constonly was unlocking going down the highway the Ez-locker was worse then the Lockright, so it has a full spool in the rear now haven't had it out yet. Air Lockers are nice when they are working right and not breaking air lines or blowing seals. I think a Ox-locker will be my next buy. and TSMmt mini spools are aviable for the 30 spline 44 open carrier through Jegs.

Originally posted by TERRA-IZER
. and TSMmt mini spools are aviable for the 30 spline 44 open carrier through Jegs.


you can get them from Randy's R&P as well.... $80 last time I checked...


Probably going to buy 1/2 one with Hoop. Throw it in my rig, and if I like it, the D60 or Corp 14 will get a full spool, and we'll through it in the Hopty-mobile and move his lock-rite to the front...

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite



you can get them from Randy's R&P as well.... $80 last time I checked...


Probably going to buy 1/2 one with Hoop. Throw it in my rig, and if I like it, the D60 or Corp 14 will get a full spool, and we'll through it in the Hopty-mobile and move his lock-rite to the front...

That's Hoopie-mobile. Hopty-mobile is what you will be doing when you experience that wonderful thing called axle wrap... :D

Originally posted by Hooper


That's Hoopie-mobile. Hopty-mobile is what you will be doing when you experience that wonderful thing called axle wrap... :D

with your rig.... nope, I was right :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite


with your rig.... nope, I was right :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

:) So, I have a little bounce in the rear..... I'm working on that. And I am sure you will have exactly the same thing.

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite



you can get them from Randy's R&P as well.... $80 last time I checked...


Probably going to buy 1/2 one with Hoop. Throw it in my rig, and if I like it, the D60 or Corp 14 will get a full spool, and we'll through it in the Hopty-mobile and move his lock-rite to the front...
I don't want to get into the whole spool vs. detroit issue but from what I understand a detroit for the 14 bolt is pretty cheap.
I will say that I have been quite happy with my front and rear detroits. That's after owning most of the above setups at one time or another.:)

And with that post I'm no longer a newbie. WOOOOOO HOOOOO!!!!!! I'm a wheeler now!
:D
I feel speeeeecial.
:)

Originally posted by Scoutaholic
And with that post I'm no longer a newbie. WOOOOOO HOOOOO!!!!!! I'm a wheeler now!
:D
I feel speeeeecial.
:)

Rick.... You ARE special..... but thats OK, they have special programs for people like you :D :D :flipoff2:

hehehehehe......
:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :)