Ok, here's the deal. I need to find a starting point for my next project. I started out wanting to build another XJ. The origional plan was to get a 2 door and strip everything. Strengthen the unibody by splitting the "frame rails" and inserting square tube. Then tieing the square tube together with crossmembers as well as attaching the full cage directly. Then a front 3 or 4 link and a rear 4 link would be installed along with coilovers. These would attach to ~65" 60's F&R. For the rest of the drivetrain I would use a atlas 2, 4L60, and eather the 4.0 a 4.3 vortech or a SBC 350. There would also be the necessary armor as well. I started posting about this about a month ago at colorado4x4.org and a week ago in the jeep section here. It seems to be the pop. oppinion that these plans are too much for a XJ. I can see where people are comming from when they say this. It seems that the lack of a frame is the big factor in this oppinion. So, need to figure out the truck that best fits these needs: room for 4 with gear, ~104" WB, Frame, little or no F&R overhang, and room for a 6'3" driver :D. So what fits? IH, Jeep, Toy? :beer:

IH scout, 4 runner, or a jeep would all work. But I dont see why a cherokee would be all that bad. And if you really feel like fabing stuff up, cut off the unibody frame, and build an actual frame for it. It is all in what you want.. all depends if you want a rid that will have a frame that is still good when the body is shot, or a frame that is just as shot as the frame. Just my $0.02

how about and older cherokee chief that has a frame or a wagoneer

I'm with YJTJ (CJ?) on this one, buy an older Cherokee or Waggy.

A FSJ would be um unique:D If I was going to do that I think I would go Scout II.

:idea: WILLYS WAGON :D With custom removeable hard top and a bikini of course:D :D "I'm a bad bad man"

just picture it with a cage:D

Well, you sound like you are prepared to fab whatever you need, so hear this idea and don't laugh - how about a Kia Sportage? You said 104" wheelbase, the Sportage has exactly 104.3 inch wheelbase. THat's why I mention it anyway, and because it has a GOOD frame. You would probably have to swap out the entire driveline to make it to your liking, you could replace the rear axle and front IFS with Toyota axles or whatever, replace the transfer case, etc. (the transfer case is chain-driven which you prolly don't like). Then you could replace the engine with a v6, should fit, dunno. Just an idea, cuz a Sportage is 4 door with seating for 5 and a cargo area in back, and it would be hella original of you to do.

Nuke, well the absence of semi-flat body pannels would keep me from putting on rock protection a la avalanche eng. That and I would assume that I would pay more than almost nothing to get one. I also assume that I porb would not beable to sell the drivetrain that I wasnt going to use:D

Build a Kaiser...they rule:D

Originally posted by Nukeiridium
...how about a Kia Sportage?

Geez, not again. I think my brother's TA has bigger wheel wells than that Kia. The only way you'd be able to keep a 104" wheel base would be to weld the rear doors shut and cut out the back half of them. If you move the axle back enough to keep the rear door, your at 109", ie Waggy.

Pete

Damn that blue thing is ugly - but a damn sportage is even uglier

Jeep Commando, got your wheelbase and flat sides. Pretty cheap to find, real frame and easily modified. Room for any motor tranny, t-case and axles you want, plus removeable top and doors. Just a thought.

I too am in a similar delima. I need room for 4 people, 100" to 110" or so wheelbase, 4 door access preferable.

I already have the 4.3L, TH350, Toy dual cases, 60's front & rear and 38.5" SX's.

I am willing to fab any of the suspension necessary, and will probably hack on the donor vehicle as necessary.

I have a 94 Toyota ExtraCab cab and frame I could use, but there is still not enough room in that. So I considered cutting the back wall out and attaching a tube body to the rear to add more seating room. Kinda like half truck, half Tube buggy...

I still dunno though, and am looking for options and CHEAP routes to go :p

I'm with the FSJ guys. I think that'll be my next rig--if I ever "finish" my current rig, that is...

They're cheap. So it won't matter if you smash the sides into the rocks because you won't care!

:D :D :D

Jake

I really like early land rover 109's, but the body has a kinda love/hate styling to it. They can be found for really cheap too. Probably cheaper than you could pick up a decent XJ for.

Or if you can afford one, Defender 110's are awesome wheelers from the factory. They have practically the same body(I think the bodys are actually intechangeable ,with just a different front clip bolted on)as earlier rovers.

Rovers have unique styling, all flat panels, light aluminum body, plenty of interior room, plenty of room for any big engine/drivetrain. They don't quite have the interior comfort of XJ's, but you said you were going to strip it down anyway right?

Here is a pic of one, that I belive belongs to a member of this board.
http://www.sierrarockcrawlers.com/community/station/mvc-016s.jpg
http://www.sierrarockcrawlers.com/community/station/Mvc-006s.jpg


Sean

Oh, and I forgot to add that thay come from the factory convertible, with a windsheild that can be folded down/removed!

I would love to have one, and have a full length Can-Bak made for it.

Alos, early Series Land Rovers had leaf springs, where Defenders had 3 link coil suspension.

Waaay cooler than an XJ in my opinion.

And to the Moderators, Thank You for allowing more than 1 pic per post now.

Sean

CAN YOU SMELL an UNIMOG doppelkabine ............ ???????

or maybe ya' like building ........ er ....... reinventing the wheel .......

i do most of my planning on what a rig will be like on price. i wasn't planning on building up a fj62 but one came up cheap as in under 800.00 bucks running and driving. so that what got built 107 or 108 wheel base room for 5 plus the dog and f.i. ,auto, cold air, solid axles and did i mention cheap. the rear over hang is a none issue with the soa and 38s plus it great to haul gear and coolers. but the next one will be old, here in texas we can get classis tags on stuff 25 years and olded and it doesn't have to pass inspection. can't be a daily driver but is stiil street legal. and it only cost like 10 bucks a year for tags. but i put the land cruiser together for 1778 bucks total and thats counting tags and inspection. and it has served me well. but i would like some v8 power in the next rig. mike

Why not a 4runner? The wheelbase is 104" they have room for 4 and room for crap. They have a solid frame. Body isn't completly flat but almost. Better choice than an XJ in my mind becuase they have a frame under them. At least thats wy I finally broke down and got one....

the convertable willy's wagon (bobed of course) or the commando/jeepster are both great ideas in my book. the waggons are heavy as hell but alot of that is the glass (more windows than a school bus) and i'm sure the roof isn't light either. FSJ are cool but a little wide. if you built one it would have to be a waggy and keep the wood grain for that Vacation family truckster feel.

Originally posted by DRM
I too am in a similar delima. I need room for 4 people, 100" to 110" or so wheelbase, 4 door access preferable.


4-door S-10 Blazer. 350 will bolt right into factory mounts (if you start with a 4.3 unit). You already said you'd fab the suspension, so start with a 2wd model to save $$$. The thick frame that everyone gripes about hanging too low would also allow you to tuck stuff way up & in, out of harm's way. And with 60's & 38.5's, that frame would hardly be a hindrance.


TEX

Originally posted by TEX


4-door S-10 Blazer. 350 will bolt right into factory mounts (if you start with a 4.3 unit). You already said you'd fab the suspension, so start with a 2wd model to save $$$. The thick frame that everyone gripes about hanging too low would also allow you to tuck stuff way up & in, out of harm's way. And with 60's & 38.5's, that frame would hardly be a hindrance.


TEX

The only problem with that - I already have one club member with one, and another friend building one right now :(

I want something "different", so that is out :(

If I could find the mid-section of a 90's 4Runner, I would add the rear door section to mine and chop up the rear part and be done with it.

And as someone else mentioned - CHEAP is key. It has to be cheap - and I mean $500 or less cheap - for me to even consider it.

Originally posted by DRM



I want something "different", so that is out :(



How about a bob-tailed Malibu wagon? Body on frame construction, room for 4, V8 comes standard so mounts are already there, $500 should be just about right.

TEX

Here ya go:

http://autohobbypage.com/show/99/all/all168.jpg


For $500, you could probably find one that runs, drives, & has working AC :D

TEX

lol TEX :p

My other delima is what to do with the Toy rig I already have. I can;t seem to sell it, so it makes the most sense to sell parts off it (22RE, axles, tranny) and use at least most of it to start with. Already got the winch, dual cases, title and registration...

Originally posted by DRM
lol TEX :p

My other delima is what to do with the Toy rig I already have. I can;t seem to sell it, so it makes the most sense to sell parts off it (22RE, axles, tranny) and use at least most of it to start with. Already got the winch, dual cases, title and registration...

I think that's gonna be the case no matter WHAT you build.

TEX

Originally posted by locrwln
Jeep Commando, got your wheelbase and flat sides. Pretty cheap to find, real frame and easily modified. Room for any motor tranny, t-case and axles you want, plus removeable top and doors. Just a thought.
I think I'm leaning toward this direction. With a 101" WB I could move the rear end back some and the front end forward a bit too. This would give me the 104-105" WB and take car of the overhang. Anybody know about the strength of the commando frame? I assume I would have to do some boxing too keep it from cracking. How much storage room behind the back seat does a 'mando have?
Originally posted by Station
I really like early land rover 109's, but the body has a kinda love/hate styling to it. They can be found for really cheap too. Probably cheaper than you could pick up a decent XJ for.
Rovers have unique styling, all flat panels, light aluminum body, plenty of interior room, plenty of room for any big engine/drivetrain. They don't quite have the interior comfort of XJ's, but you said you were going to strip it down anyway right?
Also, early Series Land Rovers had leaf springs, where Defenders had 3 link coil suspension. Waaay cooler than an XJ in my opinion.
Yeah that could be cool. It looks like there is a lot of rear overhang on the 109. I doubt that I could get one for less that a 2.5L 2 door XJ. I say 2.5L because there is a high possability that I'll be doing a engine swap. Aluminum body=harder to weld IMOHP. I will be gutting the interior so that I can cut the dash for the cage and put in Mastercraft (maybe) buckets and MC rear seat.
Originally posted by dodg partz 1t
CAN YOU SMELL an UNIMOG??????? I have thought about taking a 404 frame & drive train and putting a jeepster body on it. I would also put a SBC350 and a TH300 infront of the Mog tranny/t-case. Can you say crawl :D
Originally posted by Mike Knorr
Why not a 4runner? The wheelbase is 104" they have room for 4 and room for crap. They have a solid frame. Body isn't completly flat but almost. Better choice than an XJ in my mind becuase they have a frame under them. At least thats why I finally broke down and got one....
Yeah it has a frame and a removeable top and a 104 WB thats cool. What I'm not sure about is the rear overhang. Bobbing would cut into storage space and make getting a soft top more difficult.
David, its nice to see that I'm not the only one with this prob. May i suggest a iron :fj:? A fj-55 or a 65 sounds like it would work great for what you want to do.

FJ55!!:eek:

I'd have to vote for the Defender 110 if you want loads of carrying space with incredible capabilities. Mine has a 2.5L turbodiesel and gets 15 mpg cruising 75 mph sitting on 35" MT/Rs with a screwy turbo! and I get pretty good flex, full floating axles, and full time 4wd. The rear axle is the brit version of the dana 60 and there is a kit available to up the size to the 1.5"/35 spline shaft although I haven't needed that yet.

I love the fact that it has no electronics to screw up on the engine and will run underwater all day so long as you keep the top of the air intake out of the water. I have yet to get the crawler box, but there is a bolt-on underdrive kit that fits up to the PTO on the t-case (gear drive, by the way) and gives you ~115:1 with the stock 3.54 axle gears.

Yes, I'm biased, the one posted earlier is mine. Here's another pic!

K5 Blazer. Cheapest to repair.
You want 1 ton running gear it's a bolt on no mods. You can lift them 6 inches for $500 or less. All the parts people put in Jeeps come bolted to these from the factory. Yeah it's a little wide but you could always drop a SBlazer body on it once your done trashing the body.
Did I mentions cheap. You can pick up running drivable beeters for under $2k for a pretty solid one. $1k is not unheard of. He $1 is not unheard of. I paid $1 for my 75 and drove it home. Still have under $5k in it including Detroit locker tires and lift. Every junk yard will have parts.

Ohh and 106 is the wheel base.

hey rover. just for curiositys sake about how much would one cost?

What has portal axles, hydraulic lockers front and rear, seats 10, is light weight and costs less than $9000 ? ? ?



The Pinzgauer 710M


DIMENSIONS
Length 13.6 Ft, width 5.7 ft, height 6.7 ft.
Wheel base 2200 mm
Wheel track 1440 mm
Height of bed 930 mm
Length of bed 2250 mm
Width of bed 1590 mm
Rear bed space between wheels 825 mm
Minimum turning radius 16 ft.
River fording ability to 27 inches of water.
MECHANICAL FEATURES
Central drive shaft is protected by a central pipe and not exposed.
Gear reduction 2:1 wheel hubs to gain ground clearance
Ground clearance 19 inches at lowest point with vehicle empty, 16 inches when loaded.
5 speed full synchro transmission made by ZF in Germany
Vehicle capacity is 10 soldiers with rear seats in upright position.
The rear seats fold down flat to make an aluminum truck bed for cargo.
The cloth tops, roll bars, and stays remove quickly to make vehicle into a pickup.
The front window folds down. The door windows remove.
Max cargo weight is 1.1 tons, amazing for a 4300 lb weight vehicle.
Three hydraulic levers on dashboard enable four wheel drive and differential locks.
Twin batteries are installed in a slide out plastic tray in an outside metal box.
The second outside metal box on the left side contains the tools.
The shovel is mounted below the tool box.
A jerry can frame is mounted on the right side.
The axe is mounted below the passengers legs.
Two rifle mounts attach to the passenger grab bar.
A battery disconnect switch has a removable key for maintenance.
The light switch allows 4 military blackout (masked) light positions, or 2 normal positions.
Blackout masked headlight is mounted in front grill.
A metal screen with door is mounted behind the driver to keep flying objects from hitting the driver.
Head bumper and knee bumper pads are installed.
Vehicle is undercoated, and all box tubing in frame is interior coated with wax.
GEARING AND SPEEDS
Five speed full synchromesh 5.33:1 TO 1:1
Reduction hi-low gear box full synchromesh .88:1 OR 1.69:1
Axle drive has spiral bevel gears to bevel differential 2.846:1
2.266:1 reduction spur gear hubs on each wheel.
Hydraulic actuated differential locks on all axles can be engaged or disengaged while driving.
High Low transfer case gives 2 Mph max speed in lowest range
Highest speed in high range 62 Mph with stock tires.
SUSPENSION
Independant axles with no leading or trailing swing arms.
Progressive acting coil springs single front and dual rear (710M,K), leaf springs rear (712M,K)
Additional hollow rubber overload springs inside of coil springs.
Spring elongation 200 mm max.
Single double acting shock absorber at each wheel.
Single woven steel wire rebound strap at each wheel.

ENGINE
2.499 Liter 4 cylinder air cooled in line gasoline engine.
Bore 92 mm
Stroke 94 mm
Compression ratio 7.5:1, horsepower 87 DIN, torque 177 Nm. (plenty of power for a light vehicle)
Octane requirement 87
Five bearing crankshaft
Twin Zenith or Solex 36 NDIX dual racing carburetors (Essentially 4 carburetors).
Gas consumption 15 mpg on flat highway.
Oil capacity 7 liters, 6.5 at oil changes
Pushrod design of engine is similar to that of a Porsche, but is horizontal inline.
Oil cooler with oil thermostat.
Aircraft type metal shielded spark plugs (Champion XMN-12) and totally shielded ignition.
Massive air cleaner and hot/cold air intake to the aircleaner.
Clutch is a membrane single-plate dry type by Fichtel & Sachs
FUEL
Tank size 75 Liters
Optional tank size 125 liters
ELECTRICAL
24 volt system uses two large 12 volt 66A/H batteries in left side box.
Vehicle has a battery disconnect key (removable) behind the drivers seat
Alternator 3 phase 28 volt 35 amp Bosch
BRAKES
Hydraulic dual circuit with mechanical controlled vaccum booster.
Brake drum 285 mm diameter
Width of lining 76 mm
WHEELS
6.5" x 16" Bolt pattern 5 holes on a 6.3" (160mm) circle
Tires 245-16 bias ply
PTO TAKEOFF SPEED
Speed of shaft is .671 X rpm speed
HEATING
Exhaust pipe heat exchanger standard.
Add on Eberspacher heater fits behind drivers seat and uses vent behind the seat.

Thats all well and good but IFS is :rainbow:. I dont know if you looked a the first post but I am going to be building a rig. I'm not looking for somthing that is good out of the box. It also dosent really matter what the stock axles, gears, tranny, t-case, engine, ect. are since I will more that likely be replaceing them with the stuff that I want. Thanks for the suggestion though.

hey eddie
what about a isuzu trooper?
seems like a good platform to start?
and it's unusual

or if you want the ultimate
seating for 5 up front
8 more in the back
4 wheeldrive
4.88 gears stock
103 inch wheelbase stock
spring over stock
supercharged 3 clylinder 2 stroke multifuel diesel stock
loud proud and really wild
m-677
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let me try that bigger

That could get very intresting, looks liek it may be a little top heavy:D

OK, let me try this again. No :rainbow: IFS this time.

What has : Removable Bench Seats for 12 Passengers, Huge Cargo Space, Full Canvas Tops and Sides, Coil Springs, Portal Axles, Crawler Gears, 4-Wheel Differential Lock, and cost under $8000 ($1000 less than my previous suggestion) ? ? ?


MERCEDES-BENZ UNIMOG S.404.1
General Specifications
Width: 84"
Length: 194"
Height: 86"
Bed: 116" X 75"
Wheelbase: 114"
Turning radius: 42.6'
Empty wt.: 5720 lbs
Gross wt.: 9700 lbs
Max wt: 10,450 lbs
Tires: 10.5 x 20 dot
Fuel: 2 x 15.9 gal.
Fording: 31.5"
Traverse angle: 42 degrees
Approach angle: 45 degrees
Departure angle: 46 degrees
Climb: 70%
Decent: 90%
Avg. mpg: 10-14
Differential. Clearance: 16"
Ground Clearance: 19"
Track: 5.3 ft
Steering: worm & shaft with a ratio of: 29.7:1
Transmission: 6 speed on the fly 4-wd fully locking differentials
Gearing forward:14.93/8.23/4.47/2.46/1.52/1.0
Gearing Reverse: 20.12/11.09
Axle ratio @ ring & pinion: 3.54:1
@ hub red. gear: 2.13:1
final drive: 7.56:1
6" portal axles
4 Coil springs w/ overload @ rear
Max speed: 59 mph and 90db
Engine: m-180 overhead cam
6 cylinder in line w/ zenith-pallas 2 barrel carburetor.
Displacement: 2195cc/134 cu.in.
hp: 90bhp @ 4800rpm
Torque: 114 ft lbs@ 3200
Compression ratio: 6.8/7.0:1
24 volt electrical system 27amp, 2 batteries

THESE AWESOME TRUCKS ARE STREET LEGAL AND DO NOT REQUIRE EMISSIONS BECAUSE OF AGE!

Mog Camper and wheeler in one.

http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/mitsubishi/reviews/yoko_geos/rocks.jpg

how about a mitsubishi montero? the pre 92 models come in two and four door versions. they have a stout fully boxed frame and square body panels.

I think it is going to be a jeepster. If I ever build a mog it will look like this: http://www.teli.stadia.fi/~jjsalone/moggster1.1.jpg
incase ya'll havent noticed I dont want to be top heavy. Thanks for all the ideas. Keep them comming. Maybe I'll find somthign better than a jeepster.

Build a reg. cab Ranger...They already come with a 4.0L v6, swapping out the 35ttb is EASY and CHEAP. Fullsize axles are easy to swap, 5.0 v8 is easy to swap with a c4/c5 and atlas or d20, wheelbase is about as long as a scrambler, there arent very many crawling around the 'con...(minus DR)

2 door 102" wheelbase
4 door 112" wheelbase

Excellent starting point for a general purpose 4x4. They are coming down in price and are quite reasonable. I have seen them for less than $5000. I'm sure that one without a running engine would be less than $3000. They are roomy, comfortable and quite capable with a little lift and tires. It doesn't take anything fancy to make them work well off road.

I guess ppl are just going to page 2 and assuming that I just want a new rig that is easy to build. Below is what I'm planning to do. I doubt that it matters what the stock suspension design is since I'll be torching it off just about right away. All I'm looking for is a 2 door body with a frame and a ~104"WB. It also must have body pannles that will be easy to attach some 3/16" steel to for rock protection. I dont care is it come with a 3 banger in it stock I'm going to put in a 6 or 8. I would make a tube chasses but I dont have a bender and have never used one before. Anyone have somthign that would work better than a Jeepster? I think that is my top choice right now.

Originally posted by Eddie Mcstiff
I need to find a starting point for my next project. I started out wanting to build another XJ. The origional plan was to get a 2 door and strip everything. Strengthen the unibody by splitting the "frame rails" and inserting square tube. Then tieing the square tube together with crossmembers as well as attaching the full cage directly. Then a front 3 or 4 link and a rear 4 link would be installed along with coilovers. These would attach to ~65" 60's F&R. For the rest of the drivetrain I would use a atlas 2, 4L60, and eather the 4.0 a 4.3 vortech or a SBC 350. There would also be the necessary armor as well. I started posting about this about a month ago at colorado4x4.org and a week ago in the jeep section here. It seems to be the pop. oppinion that these plans are too much for a XJ. I can see where people are comming from when they say this. It seems that the lack of a frame is the big factor in this oppinion. So, need to figure out the truck that best fits these needs: room for 4 with gear, ~104" WB, Frame, little or no F&R overhang, and room for a 6'3" driver :D. So what fits? IH, Jeep, Toy? :beer: