OK finally got there with getting some slotted bushes made up. Just got them today and they look very good.

Now we dont know if the slots are to big or if they will delaminate or how they perform on or off road but they look as though they will flex heaps without destroying themselves :D

So need to just throw them in the silver rangie and do some miles and see how they feel.

We can play around with a few different things. The easiest being the rubber durometer (stiffness). We can also easily make the slots smaller (by machining down the dies). To make the slots bigger we have to make new dies (they are CNCed so this is easy also)

Or we can just make some more and send them to some of you monkeys who stuffed their perfectly good bushes by drilling holes in them and see how they go :flipoff2:

Sam

flex shot :flipoff2:

The first shot is of the early style (read better) bushes that are narrower. The flex shot is of the late style bushes and the dies are a bit further appart and so have a solid piece in the middle (about 1/4in thick) We drilled a hole in the middle part (like the good old days) to see if it made any difference and it didnt seem to.

Close up.

Sam

Hello Sam

Are you selling them yet then?

I am interested in a few sets could you PM me or email me with a price and cost of shipping to the UK.

GON2FAR (gon2farsuspensiondesign@hotmail.com)

Its always good to see an idea like this coming together.

Nigel

This may have been addressed, but... Question, will the slots in the bushings increase the amount axle wrap on the front axle? Will hard acceleration or braking cause any problems? I imagine that these are suitable for daily drivers considering the number of DDs that have drilled bushings. I can see how the slots in the bushings will significantly increase the movement of the radius arm without destroying the rubber. Once these are perfected I am definitely in for a set.

Collin

Originally posted by Strange Rover

Or we can just make some more and send them to some of you monkeys who stuffed their perfectly good bushes by drilling holes in them and see how they go :flipoff2:

Sam

I am up for being a tester. No liability concerns here. Let me know how you want to handle it. Email with details. I would be happy to even keep a log and actually start driving it on the commute / around town for ya.


Course I would have to take off the stilts and put the coils back on......
:flipoff2:

j

Same here! I was thinking that you should have three people test them. RedRangie can test them on the old RR, I can test them on the Disco, and we would need a monkey for the D90. Email me, i just drilled my original triple shelled bushings last week and they have definitely helped the front end, but like Red Rangie said earlier, they are a little noisy.

Brad

Hey Sam, I'm in for a couple a pair.

One thing I have been thinking is maybe you could do a version where one of the slots is slightly narrower and the other side is the size that you have done already.

I notice that on the Serious One I have lost almost a half-inch from the rubber constantly compressing the open hole.

I think that this will be a long refining process. Finding the proper durometer (or even offering the bushes in different durometers), proper slot size, assymetrical slot sizes to account for assymetrical loading (there, I've used that phrase honestly now), etc...

It's awesome that you are actually seeing this through.

I would like to run a set on the Serious One and also on my DD LWB RR. I'd also like to run a set of non-drilled ones on one of the radius arms in the CrewCab and leave the other side stock (just to see how your formula of poly compares to the stock rubber bushes that are in there now).

Again, totally awesome. Let's keep up the momentum!

If there's any way you could arrange to have a set shipped to Sweden, I'd be more than happy.

I'm just about to drill a perfectly new set of metalastics, but I'd rather get the real deal. It's for a Defender 110 2001, so I believe it's the wider variety I need.

Please mail me so we can arrange payment etc if this is at all possible.

Thanks,

Christer Wilsby

I hope you are ready to swing straight into mass production with these things Sam Cause its looking like you will need to:D

Sam, count me in for a set for my DII. As luck would have it, I'm picking up an extra set of radius arms next week to be lengthened. I could then put in your bushings and can compare them to my drilled ones. Get to pourin' man!:D

ill take a set.

Ill see if I carnt get the bushes into something for some testing this weekend and if all goes well ill get a run of them happening ASAP and then go from there.

Sam

whats the expected price?

whats the expected price?


In all honestly I have no idea. I dont think they will cost very much to get made (everything is relative here) but a lot of things have to be done before they are sold on an open market.

Not really looking at selling them at this point but we do need to get some sets out and about to see how they go.

Sam

Serious One,

Check your PMs.

Sam

Got the new bushes into the rangie (buisness partners rangie) over the weekend and they perform really well. Heaps of flex, they didnt cut themselves or delaminate. On road they are the best yet. Really good steering control and the rig doesent change line under brakes when cornering (I think this is the first sign when the bushes are stuffed)

So so far so good. Will see how soon i can get some of these things made and we will go from there.

Heres some pics.

Sam

other angle

reverse

other angle

Last one to give you some idea of the missalignment these bushes are handling.

Sam

Impressive!

Good work Sam!


Now get a patent on those sucka's now....Or at least start marketing them on this side (U.S.) with British Atlantic, GBR and all the rest of the U.S. high priced distributors!

--D

SCHWEEEETTT!!!!!

:flipoff2:

Bling bling.

I've been looking at the geometry in the front, and noticed that the clearance between track link and radius arm is limited, especially with a sumo bar or other reinforced link.

What is the experience from the trail, is there any risk for the radius arm hitting the track link with drilled or cast bushings?

Originally posted by wilsby
I've been looking at the geometry in the front, and noticed that the clearance between track link and radius arm is limited, especially with a sumo bar or other reinforced link.

What is the experience from the trail, is there any risk for the radius arm hitting the track link with drilled or cast bushings?

I can see what you mean in that it could touch although it hasent caused any problems that we have noticed.

Sam

Thank's, any other comments or experiences would be highly appreciated. Steering and brakes are the two things I don't want to see fall apart on the highway driving home from a trailride.

Wilsby,

Even if the bushings were to catastrophically fail, all of the poly were to suddenly disintegrate and fall out, you would *still* be able to get home.

But....they won't do that so you don't need to worry.

The bushings won't do anything to the brakes, so you're safe in that regard as well.

I have run on smashed up, cracked and delaminated OME caster correcting bushings before and other than being sloppy, caused no problems. Getting them out was a biatch, but there were no safety related issues.

So, back to the slotted bushes, if they were to fail (which they won't), you're still going to be able to drive home and deal with it later.

Michael

Thank's. Just to get things straight, I'm a newbie, but I didn't expect a failed bushing or track link to do any damage to the brakes, that was a general comment.

My fear was that the ball joints in the steering could fail catastrophically if the track link is hammered on by the radius arm from above.

Apparently this is a non-issue. I'll start drilling as soon as temperatures go above freezing here. Not enough ceiling height in the garage, so I work outdoors...

Oh no, I didn't mean to insult. Just making some general comments.

You may want to start drilling now while it's freezing (the bush's would probably be easier). It's the laying on your back part in the snow that's no fun.

My parents are in Malmo right now, they say that they still have a LOT of snow on the ground. Where you at?

Oh yeah, and here's the official Pirate welcome for newbies (in case you didn't know).

:flipoff2:

Thank's, I've seen that smiley before.

I used to live in Malmo. It's 630 km (400 miles) to the south from here. Stockholm is a lot colder, and pretty close to Russia too. The good thing - we get to drive in the snow.

It's not only the snow on my back that sucks. The neighbors give me the look after seeing me working outside until 3AM in the light of a 500W halogen spot.

But i guess infamous is better than un-famous...

Re bushings, we could use a couple of sets of your slotted ones up here, whenever you start producing them in volume.

I'm amazed at the amount of travel that can be had out of so simple a modification - wish I'd known about this before going out and getting a hinged arm.

Sam - I saw in one of the previous topics on this that the hinged arm yielded about two more inches of travel - curious if you tried the slotted bushes in concert with the hinged arm?

TxD90,

does this mean that you did the mod???

We want pics if you did!

Wilsby, I've got about 25K miles on my drilled bushings with no ill handling effects at all. I'm running them on my DII and other than the increased flex, there were no noticeable differences in driving it.

Whats the status on these? Can we have some yet?

Originally posted by Serious One
TxD90,

does this mean that you did the mod???

We want pics if you did!

Which mod? The bushes? No, almost all of the cool stuff has been taken off of my Defender as it gets refurbished to be sold. Including the McNamaras, hinged radius arm, OBA setup, etc.

BUT I plan on turning around and buying a RRC and throwing all of these goodies back in.

Hence - already got the hinged arm. If the slotted bushes alone yield up 10 inches, and the hinged arm pulls off 12, then I figure in concert they may be up for some big flex.

Originally posted by TxD90


Which mod? The bushes? No, almost all of the cool stuff has been taken off of my Defender as it gets refurbished to be sold. Including the McNamaras, hinged radius arm, OBA setup, etc.

BUT I plan on turning around and buying a RRC and throwing all of these goodies back in.

Hence - already got the hinged arm. If the slotted bushes alone yield up 10 inches, and the hinged arm pulls off 12, then I figure in concert they may be up for some big flex.

Doing both wont work because with the hinged arm all the axle wrap forces are controlled by one side so on that side you want a really stiff mount. IMO some stiff boly bushes wound be best. Running the slotted and a hinge wont flex more than a hinged alone.

With a hinged arm the amount of travel you get is only limited by the shocks and springs. With the slotted bushes it is definately the bushes that limits travel to about 10in.

Im really trying to get some of these things sent out in the next week. Still waiting to get a run of them done from the rubber dude. I know that its a PITA having to wait for these things but I am getting close.

Sam

I drilled my bushes today. No so easy to get that glazing heat in the snow, but it looks good. I did a little improvised ramping, and it improves articulation. But I don't agree that it feels the same on the road. Anyone tried anti roll bars with disconnects on a Rover?

And when can we get the real deal with the oval cast holes?

Hey Swede...

I have always maintained that there IS a difference in body roll. Kind of like when you first actually *removed* the sway bars?

Only taking it one more degree of roll.

Glad you did it, now get out and play!

I don't know about the US market, but Defenders come stock without sway bars over here. They rely on progressive springs, and the roll resistance in the radius arms. I have the consoles on the frame, though, so I might get some sway bars and buy/fabricate disconnects.

I had planned some snow driving for yesterday, but the mod took longer than expected (of course), and I chose to stay home and finish the work. Going out with stock arms had been lame once the decision was made.

stir to the top...

Sam, anything new on getting a batch out ? I'm going to have a set of radius arms modified in the next month or two and i wanted to try a set of the slotted bushes in there.

keith
:usa:

Well, I have some input on the road thing too.

I have been having a HELL of a time with this pig on the highway in reference to stability and the TruTrac. Turns out that it might have been in the radius arms.

I just had John make me a set, and though I drill the bushes in them before I put them in, my old ones (drilled as well) were completely shot along the vertical axis.

I noticed that as soon as I put in the new arms, the throttle off problems (coasting) diminished SIGNIFIGANTLY.

j

We are having a few dramas with the new slotted bushes cutting themselves. Now these do last a lot better than the drilled ones but having the bushes not cut themselves at all is probably something that is necessary.

We are trying a different type of rubber compound ATM (the first lot was made from a very stiff rubber) so will see how that goes and we are also looking at modifing the hole shape as well.

I was just going to get a run of them made and then try to get them to everyone who was keen but given the cost to produce numbers of these things (and the hassel in distributing them) we thought it would make more sence to sort them out a bit better before we committed to getting a run made.

But I guess thats what you get when you deal with amatures :flipoff2: (Im talking about myself here)

Sam

Keep the "amateur" stuff coming! I'm just happy someone is developing this.

I don't think my drilled bushings are shot (yet), but I have noticed that the arms hit the brackets on full articulation. Has anyone observed any long term effects of this, aside from scraped off corrosion protection goo?

Originally posted by redrangie
Well, I have some input on the road thing too.

I have been having a HELL of a time with this pig on the highway in reference to stability and the TruTrac. Turns out that it might have been in the radius arms.

I just had John make me a set, and though I drill the bushes in them before I put them in, my old ones (drilled as well) were completely shot along the vertical axis.

I noticed that as soon as I put in the new arms, the throttle off problems (coasting) diminished SIGNIFIGANTLY.

j

Yep - which is why we want the slotted bushes to not cut themselves which will make them last a lot longer.

I think that only the 3 shell bushes dont cut themselves cause they dont flex much. I know that unmodified 2 shell bushes cut themselves (and the centre crush tube becomes loose) and makes the rig drive funny. In my experience a drilled 2 shell bush last longer than an unmodified 2 shell bush in terms of making the rig drive straight on the road.

But in any case hard wheeling is very hard on the radius arm bushes with a flexy front end but the current slotted bushes we have ATM are the best so far in terms of being able to handle the big deflections without cutting (or delaminating)

Sam

Just so you know Sam, mine were the intermediate shelled bushes, as are the new set.

j

Hi Sam,

It would be very interesting to compare the difference between the holey bushes and a hinged arm on the same rig. Do you have any numbers on this as yet??

Also, If you would like a local (Sydney) to try these bushes out, let me know, I would happily volunteer.:D

Regards,
Matt.

Originally posted by Zookymatt
Hi Sam,

It would be very interesting to compare the difference between the holey bushes and a hinged arm on the same rig. Do you have any numbers on this as yet??

Also, If you would like a local (Sydney) to try these bushes out, let me know, I would happily volunteer.:D

Regards,
Matt.

I actually pulled out a hinged arm and replaced it with the holey bushes. Ended up with less travel in the front and an increase in roll stiffness in the front end (cause the holey bushes still do bind).

So instead of 14in travel (hinged) I ended up with 12in (holey) BUT everything worked so much better without the hinged arm. All the lift up and pulling down from the one solid arm was just such a PITA and just plain dangerous in a lot of critical off camber situations.

The extra travel from the hinged arm just isnt worth it IMO.

Sam

Sorry Sam,

After I posted the message here I read the "Holey Bushes" post and found that info. Thanks for re-posting though.:beer:

In the other thread, you said that you had the hinged arm on the LHS, did you try it on the right side at all?

How is the development coming along on the new bushes? How quickly are they cutting or delaminating? If the performance was there, and the price was right, then replacing them every 12 months or so may be an acceptable compromise.

Regards,
Matt.

Didnt try it onthe other side.

Wont last 12 months with regular wheeling ATM but a lot better than drilling them.

Sam

any updates on these? how is the testing going?

My drilled bushings are absolutely shot (judging by the way the rig drives on the hwy) and I have to get a new set in there pronto. I don't think I'll be drilling them this time though, as they really deteriorated quickly. Now a cast slotted set OTOH...

Once again, the similarity in rigs allows me to contribute. I hinged the front (worked great on my D-90) but the travel was too much on the G. Couldn't keep it out of the body work. I'm running really soft springs and fairly long shocks. The funny thing is, not that I've made all the suspension mods it seems to work really well without any modifications at all. Sure it's no extreme ramp champ, but it works well and is completely balanced. In the end I decided that the key must be the rear suspension. The Gwagen has essentially the same front setup as a D-90. In the rear it uses the same wrap around radius arm setup like the front. I think that having the same 'limiting' setup forces the two ends (like a D2?) to work very evenly, and even pushes them a bit further. Anyway, it's another theory.

http://www.clubgwagen.com/extreme/pics/poser/gflex9.jpg

Originally posted by darkstar
any updates on these? how is the testing going?

My drilled bushings are absolutely shot (judging by the way the rig drives on the hwy) and I have to get a new set in there pronto. I don't think I'll be drilling them this time though, as they really deteriorated quickly. Now a cast slotted set OTOH...

I drilled my new ones in my new arms. I will never do it again. THEY GO TO SHIAT QUICK. Try having all that axle movement with a tru-trac. It will scare the hell out of you.

j

I have a tru track in the front. the handling sucks. hopefully new bushings will help that.

Originally posted by darkstar
any updates on these? how is the testing going?

My drilled bushings are absolutely shot (judging by the way the rig drives on the hwy) and I have to get a new set in there pronto. I don't think I'll be drilling them this time though, as they really deteriorated quickly. Now a cast slotted set OTOH...

Sam is currently away competing in The Outback Challenge over here and i doubt will be back till around the 27/28th.
He is navigating in a Series 3 with a 302 windsor and top loader running a salisbury rear and a pair of maxi's with 35" X-terrains.

The comp doesnt start for 2 more days but he will be sending me live update pics so i will try to remember to post them over here for you.

Hehe. You guys think you have problems. Try drilling 5/8" holes and see how those handle!

I recently extended a set of stock arms 1" and decided that if 1/2" was good, then 5/8" would be even better. This is on a '00 DII with front True Trac. Let me tell you, this thing is a HANDFUL on the highway.

Oh, it flexes like a beast off-road, but it wanders all over the place on the highway. At first I thought it was my bias-ply Swampers. But when I put my radials back on it was still there. Not as bad, but still there.

So now I'm thinking of getting some 5/8" rubber rod and gluing that into the holes. That way hopefully it will firm it up some, without losing all of that wonderful flex.

What do you think?

Greg,
How did the 1/2" compare to the 5/8" holes.

Flex-wise or handling? The 5/8" flex better, but the handling is significantly worse on the road. The 1/2" were acceptable for me. Or perhaps I had just gotten used to them. But when I went to the 5/8", it just seemed to get bad really fast.

Handling esp on the highway? Greg are your bushes still holding together ok?

When I took off my stock arms (w 1/2" holes) they all appeared to be OK, with no tearing. They had about 15-18K miles on them.

The new arms (w 5/8" holes) only have about 500 miles on them, but the on-road handling is noticeably worse.