Hey all,

As some of you will remember I ran our last tank out of gas really fast and after following good advice from here I discovered a leak at the regulator. Fixed that and still was burning through the gas so I call a local shop that has worked on our system. They came out and gave me an estimate on what they think are my options. I could sure use some help ferreting out the best way to go about this.


Trane gas pac circa ’88- Never had other problems with it.

Package unit needs a heat exchanger- $683 ,Burners- $187, Pilot assembly- $139 - To correct gas consumption- total $1009, OR -New package unit with 10 year parts and labor- $3487 :

Those are the options in terms of their cost and I need help choosing the best course.

The current unit is a Trane from the late eighties. I’ve heard good things about Trane but what do I know. Can you just put new parts in these and keep going like we go with our rigs? What is left to go bad after I put whole new innards in the gas furnace? Or are the new systems more efficient enough to warrant the expense of getting new?


The guy wants to replace it with a unit from Goodman Manufacturing (http://www.goodmanmfg.com) . Is this a quality company? I’ve never heard of them. Anyone had or worked on one of these?



I am going through gas at a painful rate right now considering the prices at the moment. Any advice that will get this resolved quickly help a lot.

Thanks


Johann

I sold over $30,000 worth of goodman stuff in 1998-99. So far so good. What % efficiency unit are they selling you? The #'s sound awful high for that new unit.

"heat exchanger- $683 ,Burners- $187, Pilot assembly- $139"

First of all, you can check the heat exchanger. If it's bad BY LAW they have to turn your furnace OFF. Unless you had water damage I have never seen a bad set of burners. The only thing I would spend $$ on in that list would be the pilot assembly.

The other 2 items can be checked with a hand mirror and flashlight. Look for rust spots and hold at the top of the heat exchanger and you can easily pull the burners out and look at them. They are usually spring loaded at the end where the gas enters.

Package unit needs a heat exchanger- $683 ,Burners- $187, Pilot assembly- $139 - To correct gas consumption- total $1009, OR -New package unit with 10 year parts and labor- $3487 :

Some of the HVAC guys should pipe in... I'd listen to them!

Prices seem really high -- but sounds like the $3487 is a complete system, including an A/C unit??? What size (i.e. 3 ton) of a unit?

On pricing... for a contractor installed complete gas heat/ac unit... 5 ton system was around $5K (best components, etc). Since it was a remodel (adding 800 sq ft) we went with an secondary system (2 ton) that was around $1800 complete.

The more modern units are more effecient. One thing I learned about A/C units is NOT to go with the highest SEER rating, but stick around 12 to 14. High effeciency, but to get those really high numbers (i.e. 18) is from a high temperature condensor... it will not remove the humidity like the lower units (that run cooler, hence condensor more water out of the system).

Interesting ebay listing (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2307275074&category=20598) Goodman has been around. Thought the comment about "money spent on research not advertising" is all too true. Still, I would "think" a trane is a better system... but the HVAC guys are the ones to ask.

Goodman is IMO one of the cheapest furnaces out there. Yes they work, however they are cheap.

What efficiency rating furnace are you planning on having installed?

Right off the bat, that bid seems very high to me, if it is just a changeout.

MattS are you certain that it is a LAW that if you find a cracked heat exchanger, you must shut it down? I have been told otherwise. Thanks, Chad

What is the model and serial number of the furnace you have?
I work for Trane, Trane parts are expensive. A simple key for a lock is around 12 bucks.

Chad/ Tom: The SEER rating of the new unit would be 12. Is this enough? This is one of two HVAC units. It's on the First floor 900 sq ft. Second floor 900 sf ft- is covered by a heat pump- that has it's own problems :eek:

Tom: The total replacement cost was for the whole system AC included- not sure of the size though. I'll give them a call. Seems like a LOT of money either way

CJ The silver tags with the Serial/model # are faded too much to read. Is there somewhere else on the system I can read the info?


Thanks all!

That seems AWFULLY high seeing as his cost on the furnace is about $600 (at least that's what I pay for a 24,000 BTU unit delivered).

What I don't understand is of all the parts they have listed I really don't see anything that could cause high gas usage other then maybe the burners but seeing as how the furnace was made in '88 I'd bet they're stainless steel and probably just dirty.

I'd get a second opinion. Sounds like they're trying to make a grocery list of so called "bad" parts just to scare you into buying a new furnace. The HVAC industry is full of shady companies and actually 15 years isn't really that old for a furnace.

Originally posted by Chad H
MattS are you certain that it is a LAW that if you find a cracked heat exchanger, you must shut it down? I have been told otherwise. Thanks, Chad

It's a safety violation and must be shut down. It may just be a NE law or city of Omaha code. I can't find the code but I know it was on the test. I had to shut about 15-20 in 8 months. They failed the visual and carbon monoxide tests.

Originally posted by MattS


It's a safety violation and must be shut down. It may just be a NE law or city of Omaha code. I can't find the code but I know it was on the test. I had to shut about 15-20 in 8 months. They failed the visual and carbon monoxide tests.

Is I agree with you. However, I was told if the customer wants it to stay on, so be it. Especiallty if they cannot afford a replacement or dont WANT one.

Open the windows I guess :(

Originally posted by Chad H
The reason I ask, Is I agree with you. However, I was told if the customer wants it to stay on, so be it. Especially if they cannot afford a replacement or dont WANT one.

Open the windows I guess :(

I had to turn the gas valve and gas shutoff off, note the violation and shutdown of the unit on the service call sheet. (Cover my ass) The customer had to sign off on the sheet before I left acknowledging the fact that I shut it off. They were welcome to turn it back on, but if they told me they were going to I would report them to the city inspector. I would rather they got help from some agency or be cold than dead.

It never was an easy thing but the right way is not always easy. :(

Originally posted by Johann


CJ The silver tags with the Serial/model # are faded too much to read. Is there somewhere else on the system I can read the info?


Thanks all!

Pull the door for the compressors, there is usually a tag on the control panel door.

Originally posted by Johann
Chad/ Tom: The SEER rating of the new unit would be 12. Is this enough? This is one of two HVAC units. It's on the First floor 900 sq ft. Second floor 900 sf ft- is covered by a heat pump- that has it's own problems :eek:

Tom: The total replacement cost was for the whole system AC included- not sure of the size though. I'll give them a call. Seems like a LOT of money either way

Thanks all!

You're welcome. SEER of 12 is fine.

It does seem like alot of $$$ for a new unit. If the A/C portion is fine, you shouldn't have to mess with it. Just get a furnance replaced.

If the A/C portion was "new in 1988"... then go for it! Have the whole unit replaced. On the newer, more effecient furnaces, they can also save you some fuel (Propane tank?). I try to look at the payback on effieciency. If the new system saves $1000/yr in heating/cooling cost... that is a deal! (three year payback!).

Talking with friends around these parts, you can get an idea of how your heating/cooling is. I average around $160/month for propane and electric (about $2000/yr). Coworker -with a similiar house- averaged around $350/month!!! Admitted his house was older, didn't have thermal windows, etc... still a new furnance/ac saved him about $800 a year in operating cost.

Oh, with the new house... owner sold it with a "Home Shield Warranty". Heater wouldn't kiock in, but the A/C would kick in... at least I KNEW a few things to look at. (Goodman unit... the control boards use undersized relays. $300 (?) board with a bad $2 relay... this time the relay was FINE! -- High speed fan for AC, low speed for heat -- different relays) Spent the $45 deductible and had the claim put through Home Shield... Turned out to be the ignitor (electrical heater to ignite the gas, if the current is too high or too low it shuts off the gas valve). Hey for $45, it was worth it.

Igniter for my oven was $90... outragious, but the counter dude helped me figure it out, so I was glad to buy the part from him. I think the cheapest I found it, later, online was $50. Could have made it from a coat hanger for 50c :)

Tom :usa:

Sounds unreasonable unless you need a A/C unit as well. I can replace my whole system that handle a 1600 square foot house for that price including new A/C.
On gas appliance there is only a few things that could go bad to cause that consumption rate. Burner, Regualtor, and control valve. If the exchanger was bad then they would have by law had to shut the system down. I would call a different company to come inspect the unit. You should be able to repair what you got for a couple hundered in parts and the service call. Yes a newer unit is more effiecent but you would have to live there for another 5-10 years to recover the cost to justify it.
Heating systems are not that complicated and you can do most repairs yourself.
I would also contact the manufacture. There may be a known defect that causes the exact problem your having.

Prime example of how you can get nailed by service companies. My gas dryer went out over the weekend. Took me about 30 minutes of studying the diagam in the inside of the unit and metering out componets to find a bad Thermal safety fuse. Part was $10. I could have called around and got it cheaper. I have bought esentialy the same device for a Microwave for $5. If I had called a service guy out It would have been a $100 service call and they would have proably charged me $20 for the part