WELL

if you saw my other post about my track bar falling off......


Basicly i was told by skyjacker your S.O.L. So i called around and i cant find any long heim joints. I was told basicly you need to build one. SOOOOO i think i need to build one.


Here is the deal. The skyjacker one i have has a couple bends in it. CAN/ SHOULD i just get a peice of tubing from like M.O.R.E. And a couple rod ends and hook the bizatch up or do i need it bent like the skycraper? Im going to put it in the same place the skycraper was going. Up in the TJ stabalizer mount.


any ideas. PICS of this kind of setup.

THANKS.
DP

go to your local jeep shop that can do roll cages and have them make you one... 1" od .25 wall and 1/2" std Heim Joints works for me

Brian

spidertrax.com their in North Jersey. They'll have everything you need to build it.

Buy some rod end adapters and heim joints of the appropriate size. Then buy some 1/4" wall dom tubing to fit the rod end adapters. Cut the tubing to longer than you would need. Take a torch and heat up the tubing until glowing red (where you want the bend), then bend it to the shape of your old bar. Cut it to the right length and weld the adapters on. Bolt it up.

If you put in a straight trac bar, the angles on the joints would be more severe and more likely to cause binding. Also, when the axle drops down, it would move side to side, more than it would with a properly bend trac bar. Also, doing a straight one may interfere with other components, depending on your rig.

The bend in the trac bar allows it to be at less of an angle to the axle. The trac bar has the most stress on it when you are taking turns on the road, the higher the speed the more the force. I would do as redrum said and have someone that is good at bending rods and keeping their structural ridgidity intact bend one for you. You could do it, but to do it correctly you would have to heat it over a large area and bend slowly and change the leverage positions constantly to get the best strength. You could figure it out with a little calc and some MBM(mechanical behavior of materials) text books.

Or you could measure the length of the old one, cut the bad end off and put a new one on and make sure it is the same length. Since the force runs laterally on the trac bar, any bend will decrease its strength and make failure more likely. It could also make it just bend a little bit, not very noticably, and screw you all up. If I were you I would definitely try this first!! And if you need any advice on engineering it, I do not yet have a degree, but I am a mechanical engineering student, so.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Phikap
If you put in a straight trac bar, the angles on the joints would be more severe and more likely to cause binding. [QUOTE]

It depends on the way the joints are mounted. If you mount the with a horizontal bolt the angle on the joint only changes when the axle moves forward or rearward.

Also, when the axle drops down, it would move side to side, more than it would with a properly bend trac bar. Also, doing a straight one may interfere with other components, depending on your rig. [QUOTE]

This doesn't make sense. A bar that measures 30" from end to end can have 10 bends in it or none, either way it still measures 30". The axle will move the same amount with or without bends.

The bend in the trac bar allows it to be at less of an angle to the axle. [QUOTE]

The effective angle of the bar doesn't change with bends. The angle is measured from mounting point to mounting point.


:D :D :D :flipoff2:

Originally posted by Tim Palen
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Phikap
If you put in a straight trac bar, the angles on the joints would be more severe and more likely to cause binding. [QUOTE]

It depends on the way the joints are mounted. If you mount the with a horizontal bolt the angle on the joint only changes when the axle moves forward or rearward.

Also, when the axle drops down, it would move side to side, more than it would with a properly bend trac bar. Also, doing a straight one may interfere with other components, depending on your rig. [QUOTE]

This doesn't make sense. A bar that measures 30" from end to end can have 10 bends in it or none, either way it still measures 30". The axle will move the same amount with or without bends.

The bend in the trac bar allows it to be at less of an angle to the axle. [QUOTE]

The effective angle of the bar doesn't change with bends. The angle is measured from mounting point to mounting point.


:D :D :D :flipoff2:

HAHAHAHAH uh ......DUUUUHHHH!

That was great..

Sean

Tim I think he ment. That With a TJ the axle will shift from passengerside to drivers side as the passengerside flexes down and the drivers side flexes up. With the bend in the track bar, the degree of angle from the trackbar to the axle is less.

I wish i could draw this but this computer wont do it.

If the track bar is straight the axle will move further than if it was bent. Kinda that shortest distance between 2 places thing.

so with the bend. ( and if you notice all the front TJ track bars are bent) it wont shift as far.
TERAFLEX did this with the lower control arms in the rear of their long arm kit.. It has a bend to let the tire droop more directly than it would if the control arm was straight.

Question: Would a bent lower control arm in the front help?
Not bent like a rubicon arm. Bent sideways like a teraflex long arm kit rear lower arm....... Hmmm I wonder....

The further the shift the more stress on those weak ass upper and lower control arm mounts.

Desired would be to have a bend that would let the axle droop and keep the tire from moving left to right at all. Just down and back. (It has to move back because of the control arms)

In a TJ it isnt moving forward unless its getting stuffed.
so in essance, Stuff one tire, that side of the axle gets pushed forward and the tire that is drooping-- that side moves back.
But lets not forget, if the passengerside tire is the tire that is drooping then the entire axle is getting pushed to the drivers side. (yes slightly) but that is what we are talking about. How to minimize the sideways push.

Originally posted by BellyUp
Tim I think he ment. That With a TJ the axle will shift from passengerside to drivers side as the passengerside flexes down and the drivers side flexes up. With the bend in the track bar, the degree of angle from the trackbar to the axle is less.


If you are comparing the angle of the axle tube to the angle of a bent track bar were it mounts on the axle before the bend that goes upward they will be at less of angle there. But the effective angle of the bar doesn't change.

I wish i could draw this but this computer wont do it.[/QUOTE]

I wish you could too.

If the track bar is straight the axle will move further than if it was bent. Kinda that shortest distance between 2 places thing.[/QUOTE]

So you are saying the arc that a 30" long(from mounting hole to mounting hole) bent bar travels is less than a 30" long straight bar. This still doesn't make any sense...

so with the bend. ( and if you notice all the front TJ track bars are bent) it wont shift as far.
TERAFLEX did this with the lower control arms in the rear of their long arm kit.. It has a bend to let the tire droop more directly than it would if the control arm was straight.

Question: Would a bent lower control arm in the front help?
Not bent like a rubicon arm. Bent sideways like a teraflex long arm kit rear lower arm....... Hmmm I wonder....[/QUOTE]

This still doesn't make sense either.

The further the shift the more stress on those weak ass upper and lower control arm mounts.[/QUOTE]

Now this part makes sense. The more the axle shifts the more stress the mounts see.

Desired would be to have a bend that would let the axle droop and keep the tire from moving left to right at all. Just down and back. (It has to move back because of the control arms)

In a TJ it isnt moving forward unless its getting stuffed.
so in essance, Stuff one tire, that side of the axle gets pushed forward and the tire that is drooping-- that side moves back.
But lets not forget, if the passengerside tire is the tire that is drooping then the entire axle is getting pushed to the drivers side. (yes slightly) but that is what we are talking about. How to minimize the sideways push. [/QUOTE]

I can't see how a bend in a bar can help change the arc the axle moves if the bars are same overall length and the mounting points are the same...

The way I see it to minimize the shift you could use a longer bar or decrease the angle the bar is at by lowering the frame mount.

Raising the mount higher on the axle to decrease the angle of the bar would decrease the amount of shift when the axle goes up and down, but won't help axle shift when flexing (drooping 1 side and stuffing the other)

I don't get what you mean. :D :D :D

Its because of the bend that the bar dosent have to travel as far.

dont forget a straight bar will arc in a predescribed manner.

ie: Take a pencil and hold at one end. Swing it.. You know where its going.

Then take a crazy straw and hold it on one end. swing it. You dont know where its going.


One thing is that with a straight bar. AS the tire moves both back and down. the straight bar will cause it to ARC to the drivers side in a specific manner.
But with a bent bar. AS the tire droops it will change the amount the axle moves Ie: it will get less in an exponential manner. or a greater manner depending on the direction of the bend.

Having a bent track bar will cause the axle to move less to the sides. simply because the track bar angle changes as the axle droops.

I know I havn't explained this very well but right now I am at a loss for words./// Sorry.

Tim, I just tried to draw this out on paper and now I am totally confused....


You might be right.

take a piece of paper and draw a straight line with 2 tires.

add a striaght (track bar at a fixed point on the paper)

draw another (axle) with a bent track bar at the same spot on the paper but under neath the other picture.


Hold the paper AT the top point of the track bar. then rotate the paper as if the tire was drooping.

See how far the paper moved to the right?


do same thing with the picture of the bent track bar and the paper didn't seem to move as far to the right.

It works. try it.. I tried to draw this on Word but that didn't help much.

pjensen on this board made one for his D60. Looked straight to me. Hiem at frame end and bushing at the other.

Lucy, does he have a coil spring front end?

this is where the difference comes in..
Cause the coils bend in and out. like a rubber band.

I just tried what you said. I came up with the same amount of shift with both.

Make sure the mounting points are located in the same place and that the bars are the same length overall.

Cycle the axle the same amount and you will get the same results.

Tim, your correct.

I redrew it on Word with copy and paste.

they do appear to move the same.. I stand corrected.

Good debate.. nice job you changed my mind.
Just build it straight.

Try this: Draw a 5" long bent bar and a 5" long straight bar, hold 1 end stationary and make a circle with each one. They both make a 10" circle and have the same arc. This is because both bars are the same length overall from end to end. The bend in the middle doesn't change the overall length.

I guess I type too slow I missed your last response while I typed with one finger. :D :D :D

He has coils (R.E. long arm kit). Just make sure you will clear the oil pan (and whatever lese up there) and diff while it flexes.
Rusty's makes a straight track bar for the XJ, it hooks into the steering damper mount, which needs to be boxed and braced.

When done correctly, a bent trac bar can act like a dropped trac bar, not for the whole travel, but at certain points. Because of the different angles on the mounts, the bushings flex differently, and you know the bent tracbar does have flex in it. These two things combined make a small difference, not a huge difference, but a difference.

On paper, the triangles that both types of tracbars form make it look like they would make no difference. And still, the fact that a straight tracbar could hit other stuff doesn't seem like a good idea.

Also, keep in mind that the steering geometry is based on the tracbar location, and how it behaves.

ps, sorry, the one i wrote last night didn't make much sense, i duno where i was going with it. i shouldnt post shit unless im sober, sorry again.:beer: :beer: :beer: :smokin:

Yep, I made my own. I have an RE long arm kit (mostly).
Both my front and rear track bars are 1.25" OD x .188 wall DOM with a tube welded to one end (with a poly bushing in it) and a tube adapter with a 3/4" hiem in that.

Some pics:
Front view (http://jeep-club.irtech.com/phils_mods/steeringcomplete1.jpg)
Axle end (http://jeep-club.irtech.com/phils_mods/steeringcomplete2.jpg)
Frame end (http://jeep-club.irtech.com/phils_mods/steeringcomplete4.jpg)

BUT, I am pretty sure this would not work with the stock mount.
(Nothing stock on my mounts, or my Chevy D60).

Let me know if I can answer questions.

Phil

http://www.sierrarockcrawlers.com/community/rocktoy/Tracbar.jpg