Okay, i have a rearend from a 78 scoutII. When i cleaned it up awhile back, i noticed it had tapered roller bearings. When I went to Advance to get some Set 10's, i saw that they are cylindrical roller bearings. Whats up? What other bearings were offered in the scouts? were there any retrofit kits for tapered roller bearings, and what is the bearing part number? I want to get this thing taken care of! Thanks for any help!

D-bolt

The new bearing you recieved is the "revised" new and improved style. The tapered bearing exerts outward pressure on the axle at all time where as the new bearing just supports the weight. If you've ever blown a rear bearing out it tends to shoot the axle out from the housing. The new style won't do this. You do have to replace the bearing and race, though to go to the new style

Tapered roller bearings must be used otherwise you'll loose an axle. The flat rollers are made to support weight with no lateral force, they will fail in the rear axle. Even the people at Timken said not to use the flat roller bearings...

This has been discussed to death on the BB...
See this discussion
BB (http://atlas.binderbulletin.org/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1185&highlight=rear+axle+bearings)
If your bearing looks like this it's the correct type

http://atlas.binderbulletin.org/forums/attachment.php?postid=6366

So let's get your definition of a "Tapered Roller Bearing".

The bearings themselves are cylindrical...but in a tapered orientation to the centerline of the bearing assembly.

Maybe I am not understanding your problem. I assumed SET10 meant exactly what you needed.


Anyway NEPS picture says it all....anyone else?

You want Timkin set-10 PIRIOD!!!:D BTDT Seems ,depending where you go, all counter clown want to give you a BR 10.WRONG!!Only taper for our rigs.:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :)

so if I switch over to this slightly different style bearing (which comes pre-packed in grease) do I need the inner axle seal the parts guys is telling me I need. the old bearing was lube'd by the gear oil. it would seem the new bearing doesn't need to see the gear oil. am I wrong ?

thanks.

- jack

Get Timkin SET-10's (the tapered ones... Timken actually made a strainght roller SET-10 and a tapered roller SET-10. You want the tapered ones) and do not use the inner seal. Let the gear oil keep them lubed.

ok. thanks. went to the parts store last night and the parts monkey gave me the straight roller one and I was quite confused.

Edit: how do I get the parts monkey to get me the tapered roller Set-10 ? cause you know if it's not on the computer screen he's not going to have a clue ...

- jack

Originally posted by morpheus
ok. thanks. went to the parts store last night and the parts monkey gave me the straight roller one and I was quite confused.

Edit: how do I get the parts monkey to get me the tapered roller Set-10 ? cause you know if it's not on the computer screen he's not going to have a clue ...

- jack

You have to go to a parts store that sells Timken bearings.

www.autozone.com

autozone is where I got the Timken SET10's last night that are the straight roller ones.

hmm, was just searching on autozone's site and I got this to come up. hadn't come up before when just searching on the bearing number:

TIMKEN 2(FED-MOGUL) A-10 $18.99

TIMKEN SET10 $18.99


- jack

Autozone is where I got mine too, they were the tapered ones. I don't think you will be able to beat their price at $19/set either. That even includes the new retainer ring as well. Just add an outer seal to that and you're set. Don't settle for the straight rollers. MAKE them order you some of the tapered ones.

Got mine at AutoZone.com...

Came to me with the correct ones and yes they came with the press on collar as well.

quick tip,
If you have any problems pulling the races run a real hot bead on the race, fawker will fall right out....

OBTW,

. You do have to replace the bearing and race, though to go to the new style

Why would you ever change a bearing but not the race?? Trail fix, maybe, but that is the only good reason I can think of :confused:

weird.. I've been running the non tapered set-10 roller for 2 years now with no problems. :confused:

Originally posted by sceep
weird.. I've been running the non tapered set-10 roller for 2 years now with no problems. :confused:

Sure, keep it lubed properly, and you won't have any problems. But, when it goes bad, the axle can pull right out through the backing plate. It is not that it goes bad any sooner, as much as it is that if it goes bad, it goes catastophically bad. The tapered bearings will burn up, but they won't pull out of the axle. I roasted mine a couple months ago, nothing but chunks left, but it did not fall out...

Originally posted by Hooper


Sure, keep it lubed properly, and you won't have any problems. But, when it goes bad, the axle can pull right out through the backing plate. It is not that it goes bad any sooner, as much as it is that if it goes bad, it goes catastophically bad. The tapered bearings will burn up, but they won't pull out of the axle. I roasted mine a couple months ago, nothing but chunks left, but it did not fall out...


strange again...... i put the rollers in because last time i had a taper fail i was doing 45 on a paved road with no gard rail and a 100' dropoff on the side when the taperd bearing let go and blew my drivers axle out the side of the truck. Let me tell you.. that was NOT cool.:eek:

Originally posted by TORC
Autozone is where I got mine too, they were the tapered ones. I don't think you will be able to beat their price at $19/set either. That even includes the new retainer ring as well. Just add an outer seal to that and you're set. Don't settle for the straight rollers. MAKE them order you some of the tapered ones.

I went back to autozone last night and the parts guy was like. that bearing there is all we got dude. A set10 is a set10 dude. What do I do to get the parts moron to find the right part ?

- jack

Ask them to order in a couple more sets of the SET-10's. They should of had to order in some replacements for the ones you bought anyhow. If he's still not convinced, tell him to call Timkin and talk to one of the engineers there. They will tell him that Timkin did in fact make straight roller SET-10's and tapered roller SET-10's. If the counter dick still won't budge, just shove those straight rollers up his ass and go order some new bearings off the website.

Just to clear things up a bit.....the rear axle shouldn't have inner axle seals. The housing vents from the tubes so the diff should be able to vent through the tubes. Also this lets oil reach the wheel bearings. I stand by my previous statement as I build axles for a living: the straight bearing is a improved design despite what might be posted in BB. As far as what "Timkin" said: don't know how you heard that but the Timkin I deal with sends us the strtaight bearings now.

I blew 5 tapered rear bearings as well as seen 10 more fail on trucks over the years and they do have a tendency to push the axle from the housing due to their tapered design. Once the straight bearings were introduced, I ran those for 4 years without trouble from the bearing till I upgraded to 1-tons. Personally, I think you're beating a dead horse. Put the straight bearings in and be done with it!

I build axles for a living

I find it interesting that when a person is "employed" for a job they become an expert? Although all of us have had to deal with the counter monkey who can't tell a spark plug from a rotor, but they do it "for a living" too.

No offense, I just tend to believe the engineers at Timken and Dana Spicer over your opinion.

nuff said. Have fun trying to figure out your delima....

By the way... I say I'm an expert because I AM an expert. Not because I'm employed. Years of experience and you'll figure that out.

Originally posted by slipscomb
Just to clear things up a bit.....the rear axle shouldn't have inner axle seals. The housing vents from the tubes so the diff should be able to vent through the tubes. Also this lets oil reach the wheel bearings. I stand by my previous statement as I build axles for a living: the straight bearing is a improved design despite what might be posted in BB. As far as what "Timkin" said: don't know how you heard that but the Timkin I deal with sends us the strtaight bearings now.

I blew 5 tapered rear bearings as well as seen 10 more fail on trucks over the years and they do have a tendency to push the axle from the housing due to their tapered design. Once the straight bearings were introduced, I ran those for 4 years without trouble from the bearing till I upgraded to 1-tons. Personally, I think you're beating a dead horse. Put the straight bearings in and be done with it!

Slip,

My question on the inner seal is, my axles are old, and the seal surface is buggered up a bit. If I don't have the inner seal, I would need to replace my axles to get the proper seal surface and keep my diff fluid from draining out, correct?

When I get new axle shafts made, I will yank the inner seals and let the diff fluid do the work. At least that way I know that as long as the diff is full (not leaking out) my bearings are not drying out from old grease or water contaminated grease.

Usually what happens is that a groove is worn into the seal surface on those inner seals. Another is pitting from rust. You can try using emory cloth on the surface and when driving in a new seal, place it in a new location so that the seal is not rubbing in the groove. I do this on pinions, too to squeeze a little more life out of them. Another solution is to use a "speedy sleeve" They make these for pinion yokes as well as axles. Good luck finding them. I get them from our supplier here in Tulsa. If you can't find them I could send you some. The 3rd solution is to just replace the axle. The rear axle, ,however doesnt use inner axle seals unless your vent tube is on the diff. But if it's on the brake junction on the tube you won't have inner seals just outters at the wheel bearings.

slips i think your confused a bitt on the scout inner and outter seals.

There is no Inner, per say, at the diff. but rather an inner at the inside of the tapered bearings and an outter, at the outside of the taperd.


With the flat cyldrical, timken spec say to leave the "inner" seal out, and to let the diff oil lube the bearing.



oh yeah.

tapered bearing failure.

Originally posted by slipscomb
Usually what happens is that a groove is worn into the seal surface on those inner seals. Another is pitting from rust. You can try using emory cloth on the surface and when driving in a new seal, place it in a new location so that the seal is not rubbing in the groove. I do this on pinions, too to squeeze a little more life out of them. Another solution is to use a "speedy sleeve" They make these for pinion yokes as well as axles. Good luck finding them. I get them from our supplier here in Tulsa. If you can't find them I could send you some. The 3rd solution is to just replace the axle. The rear axle, ,however doesnt use inner axle seals unless your vent tube is on the diff. But if it's on the brake junction on the tube you won't have inner seals just outters at the wheel bearings.

My rear has inner seals, and is vented in the diff, not the tubes.

Didn't know they had speedi sleeves for axles. Do they have them for spindles as well?

That's unusual for your rear to be vented at the diff. In that case you should use inner seals at the diff. And to my knowledge there aren't any "speedy sleeves" for the spindles. Just try to "offset" the seal in the back of the bearing hub.

Originally posted by slipscomb
That's unusual for your rear to be vented at the diff. In that case you should use inner seals at the diff. And to my knowledge there aren't any "speedy sleeves" for the spindles. Just try to "offset" the seal in the back of the bearing hub.

Its vented at the diff because we made it that way... remote breather tube.


If he used the inner seals, then hows the wheel bearings supposd to be lubed??

Couple of my axles have gease zerks at the wheel ends. Just for greasing the bearings, but thats unusual. (not sure if that housing does or not... it used to be on my truck :D)

Seems that gear oil lube it the most common, how long will grease last in the the bearings?

Originally posted by RustoleumWhite


Its vented at the diff because we made it that way... remote breather tube.


If he used the inner seals, then hows the wheel bearings supposd to be lubed??

Couple of my axles have gease zerks at the wheel ends. Just for greasing the bearings, but thats unusual. (not sure if that housing does or not... it used to be on my truck :D)

Seems that gear oil lube it the most common, how long will grease last in the the bearings?

Front wheels use axle grease only... and that lasts a long time, as long as you keep water out of it....

Do you remember if this axle has inner seals. I thought it did, but it seems like you are saying it does not, and that diff oil lubes the rear bearings...

right. Diff oil is supposed to lube the rrear bearings and I would recomend leaving it that way. Even if you have put in a auxiliary breather at the diff. Leave the diff seals out so the wheel bearings can be lubed from the gear oil. It lasts longer than greease.

Originally posted by Hooper


My rear has inner seals, and is vented in the diff, not the tubes.

Didn't know they had speedi sleeves for axles. Do they have them for spindles as well?

Hooper,

Speedi-Sleeves can be had for almost any seal surface.
However you might not be able to ask for them by auto type you may need to measure the shaft.

The other way is by the seal dimensions which the parts monkey can get if he looks the seal up in the book not the computer.

However I know Napa has Speedi-Sleeves for Scout II rear axles.

The best place to look for bear/seals/sleeves is at a Bearing supply store "Bearing Suppliy Inc" is one that I can think of, but there are others.

Carey