What I'm thinking is since the TJ dana 44 and the XJ rearend are the same width why not use the more common TJ 44? Sure I could just cut off the coil buckets and the control arm mounts. But why do that when I could just use those mounts and make a custom long arm 4 link. This would use coil springs. So the question is what is the spring rate of the 6" skyjacker XJ front coils? Since I would like the front and rear to be as balanced as possable would the rear spring rate need to be lower since they dont support the weight of the engine and tranny? I just thought of this and its 5am so I havent really thought it through. This is just a mild rig so I'm not looking at 60's that will be on my next rig. So am I <IMG SRC="smilies/rasta.gif" border="0"> ?

[ 10-17-2001: Message edited by: Eddie Mcstiff ]

[ 10-22-2001: Message edited by: Eddie Mcstiff ]

You're gonna find that TJ 44's are really expensive. A typical axle will run you around $800 - $1000. Just a plain housing is $750 from a dealer. Think about an axle from a Waggy or a Scout if you want a 44. If you want a bigger axle, why not an 8.8? You can get one of those for around $400 off an Exploder.

Originally posted by Jim M:
<STRONG>You're gonna find that TJ 44's are really expensive. A typical axle will run you around $800 - $1000. Just a plain housing is $750 from a dealer. </STRONG>
I know a pick and pull in CO where all rearend assemblies are $52.95 and housings are $22.95, This is for any make and model. I'm now planing on doing this too soon so I have time to find a rearend.

If that is true and they have TJ 44's, get ALL of them. Get every one they ever get in. Ship them to me at my cost and I will sell them and pay you 1/2 the profits.

Originally posted by Jim M:
<STRONG>If that is true and they have TJ 44's, get ALL of them. Get every one they ever get in. Ship them to me at my cost and I will sell them and pay you 1/2 the profits.</STRONG>
They get in 200 cars a week. Sorry I'm from the right cost I would prob. have others higher on the list than you. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

[ 10-17-2001: Message edited by: Eddie Mcstiff ]

Well, I had to try...

Originally posted by Jim M:
<STRONG>Well, I had to try...</STRONG>
Ya never know unless you do <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

8.8....... git er done <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0">

Yo Eddie,

Where is that pick n pull in CO?

I'm up in Longmont

XJ D44's seem to be plenty common here in MN. Guys in my club found 3 at the pick and pull in the last few weeks. On the other hand, the TJ D44's are pretty rare, and expensive.

Originally posted by Matt R.:
<STRONG>Yo Eddie,

Where is that pick n pull in CO?

I'm up in Longmont</STRONG>

PM'd ya. ttt

According to the quality sources at JP ragazine, late model 44's, such as those found in TJ's use a thinner axle tube as compared to earlier 44's. Unless you really want to use all of the TJ bracketry, it may be worth your while to hunt for an older/stronger 44 or something else altogether.

cm "keep a mindful eye and you may see a TJ 44 fall off a truck" k

I have been thinking about this. The main problem is width and lug pattern. Since I think I'm going to have the rig regestured in PA I cant be sticking out past the fender flairs. So I dont want to go any narrower than 60" but wider is pritty much out of the question too. This might change since I'm going to be in Colorado for a while and I like the law's better here. I think i'm going to be keeping the D30 and trussing it. This will give me a 5 on 5.5 (warn hub kit) and I would like to keep that. I could always make a housing to fit 60" D44 axle shafts.

[ 10-17-2001: Message edited by: Eddie Mcstiff ]

Well I just looked at a TJ and i dont like the linkage design. I want to make a "double V" 4 link not unlike desertoy has on his buggie. So I guess I could use any dana 44 But I'm going to try to find one from a MJ or a XJ to keep the fab work down. Looks like I was <IMG SRC="smilies/rasta.gif" border="0"> at 5 am. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

[ 10-18-2001: Message edited by: Eddie Mcstiff ]

hey, I know of pull-n-save on peoria and 225/I-70, but their prices are $67 per axle...which one do you go to?

The one in aurora Pull & Save (http://www.pullnsave.com/)

or junk yards south of you near the mexican border are dirt cheap too.

Yo Big Eddie,
That one that Mike said is the same one you're talking about, and axles are 67 after core charge. You missed out this weekend though, because everything was half off, and they had free hot dogs on Sunday. Can't beat a $35 axle.
~Scott

Yeah, so if you give them your axle then you get the 10 spot back <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> . I wish I had known about the half price weekend, I need a new t-case. Dammit.

if you want the bad caracteristics of coils all the way arround, go get you a grand, then you could also have a v-8. otherwise don't mess with shit you don't understand.

yah might as well wait till you can take two axles out of one truck so the gear ratios and bolt pattern are the same. Ditch the 30.
mike

Originally posted by Brent (aka)borton:
<STRONG>if you want the bad caracteristics of coils all the way arround, go get you a grand, then you could also have a v-8. otherwise don't mess with shit you don't understand.</STRONG>
Borton, I could also get those bad characteristics if I bought a TJ. Right? Can you enlighten me about the bad characteristics? What exactly dont I understand? Coils seem to be less complated than a 1/4 elip.

Originally posted by stadlerm:
<STRONG>yah might as well wait till you can take two axles out of one truck so the gear ratios and bolt pattern are the same. Ditch the 30.
mike</STRONG>
The main thing I'm concerned about is width. I cant go much wider than 60" and I dont want to be any narrower. If I decide to regesture it in Co and pay higher insurance, then it might be an option. even then I wouldent want to be too wide, so I could fit on all the trails I want to go on.

yes you do get the same problems with a tj but in cases worse because of the short wheel base. but what I'm talking about is the bouncy bounce on steep inclines, the body roll on of camber stuff, the affects of these can be lessened by good shocks and sway bars, but by the time you did that you just as well kept the leaf springs and the money in your pocket book. and go learn to drive what you got, I've seen a snyper fall on its face cause the driver didn't know how to drive it in a competition, when a 4 popper YJ won the whole event (UROC finals) then the driver and spotter switched places and won the last ARCA finals.

I know pritty well how to drive what I got. I have also had trouble with sidehilling/offcamber stuff with my current set up. I believe this is because the rear springs are MUCH stiffer than the front coils. Could I just get some longer softer leaf's, yeah. But why when I could have somthing that works as well but can flex more since the droop side just drops without resistance. <IMG SRC="smilies/skull.gif" border="0">

[ 10-18-2001: Message edited by: Eddie Mcstiff ]

well if coils is really what you want to go to, terra has a coil kit for the rear of an XJ for anywhere from 800 to 1200, depending on who you know. I also believe rusty has one out. the terra one looks to be using tj/wj rear coils, and bolts to the body, but you weld everything to the rear axle except the upper a arm mount, and that bolts to the diff cover, but they don't make one for a 44 so you'll have to take that and fab some sort of mount.

Originally posted by Brent Orton:
<STRONG>you weld everything to the rear axle except the upper a arm mount, and that bolts to the diff cover, but they don't make one for a 44 so you'll have to take that and fab some sort of mount.</STRONG>

A dude I ran into did that exact thing to his XJ. Tera wanted 4 bills to make up a D44 mount and 4 weeks to do it. He was able to have a local machine shop make him one for $150 and it only took them a couple hours.

cm "FWIW" k

Originally posted by Brent Orton:
<STRONG>yes you do get the same problems with a tj but in cases worse because of the short wheel base. but what I'm talking about is the bouncy bounce on steep inclines, the body roll on of camber stuff, the affects of these can be lessened by good shocks and sway bars, but by the time you did that you just as well kept the leaf springs and the money in your pocket book. and go learn to drive what you got, I've seen a snyper fall on its face cause the driver didn't know how to drive it in a competition, when a 4 popper YJ won the whole event (UROC finals) then the driver and spotter switched places and won the last ARCA finals.</STRONG>

You were at the UROC finals? I know yer an XJ dude, so you might remember the white XJ with the chopped top and yellow hood. I was the spotter. By the way, it was a Scorpion that sucked so bad at UROC, and it seemed to be too wide for the cones and the rear stear messed them up. Gillen is coiled front and rear and his rig worked amazingly well that day. His coils work great for him. He does not bounce.

Not that I dont believe you but in this picture there looks to be a leaf?Do you have any better pic's or a link so I can check out his setup?
http://www.off-road.com/rock/uroc/01vernal/gallery3/122_22.jpg

[ 10-19-2001: Message edited by: Eddie Mcstiff ]

Originally posted by Eddie Mcstiff:
<STRONG>Not that I dont believe you but in this picture there looks to be a leaf?Do you have any better pic's or a link so I can check out his setup?
http://www.off-road.com/rock/uroc/01vernal/gallery3/122_22.jpg

[ 10-19-2001: Message edited by: Eddie Mcstiff ]</STRONG>

Yes, there are leafs in the rear of that rig. That was the guy I spotted for. I was talking about Brandon Gillen, who won UROC and ARCA in a four popper coil sprung YJ.

I see

Originally posted by stadlerm:
<STRONG>I had one of those xj rears for a little bit and I could use the same, maybe slightly larger, ubolts on it that I did on my 35. The same ubolts were way too small to fit on my waggy 44 front. Ohh, you laugh at us...unlikely.
mike</STRONG>
So are you saying that I would be better off useing a D44 from a CJ, Waggy, J-Truck, SJ? <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Eddie Mcstiff:
<STRONG>Originally posted by stadlerm:
I had one of those xj rears for a little bit and I could use the same, maybe slightly larger, ubolts on it that I did on my 35. The same ubolts were way too small to fit on my waggy 44 front. Ohh, you laugh at us...unlikely.
mike</STRONG>
So are you saying that I would be better off useing a D44 from a CJ, Waggy, J-Truck, SJ? <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

OR you could truss a XJ 44 and use it to mount the upper arms.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/madxj/files/diff%201%20sml%202.jpg
<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by TNT'sXJ's:
<STRONG>OR you could truss a XJ 44 and use it to mount the upper arms.</STRONG>
Nice looking work. I was just making the point that, according to the people at JP, the only Jeep D44 that is diffrent (aside frome width) out of the CJ, Waggy, J-Truck, SJ, XJ, TJ is the TJ.

How's this sound: 2 door XJ, <STRONG>lot's</STRONG> of chassis stiffining (Cage, trussing ect.), 4 link rear w/D44, matching D44 front maybe useing the skycracker RR arms, Coilover's, lots of trimming. I'm also thinking about covering/replaceing all the sheet metal below the windows with thicker stright pannels and making front fenders framed with schedule 40 pipe. I say sch. 40 caus its not going to be structural. The suspension is being designed to ride low (5.5"+stock) but have lots of droop, keeping the CG low but have high flex. I guess JP was right about the ultimate XJ buildup this is starting to sound alot like it. hope to start this winter. I need to find a 2 door. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by Eddie Mcstiff:
<STRONG>How's this sound: 2 door XJ, lot's</STRONG> of chassis stiffining (Cage, trussing ect.), 4 link rear w/D44, matching D44 front maybe useing the skycracker RR arms, Coilover's, lots of trimming. I'm also thinking about covering/replaceing all the sheet metal below the windows with thicker stright pannels and making front fenders framed with schedule 40 pipe. I say sch. 40 caus its not going to be structural. The suspension is being designed to ride low (5.5"+stock) but have lots of droop, keeping the CG low but have high flex. I guess JP was right about the ultimate XJ buildup this is starting to sound alot like it. hope to start this winter. I need to find a 2 door. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
sounds like a lot of unnecissary weight, roll cage yes, wraping the frame for a good mount for bumpers and cage and sliders, yes. but the replacing the sheetmetal, why? and it sounds to me like your going to run 35" + tires, if so, I'd seriously think about dana 60's, you'll be snapping front axle joints left and right, kinda like I do.


dam,note to self: I guess its time for me to start looking for a pair of 60's, cause my 44's I have not are going to be worth their weight in gold, unless all the xj's out there decide to bypas the 44's and go to 60's.

Originally posted by Brent Orton:
<STRONG>Sounds like a lot of unnecissary weight,replacing the sheetmetal, why? and it sounds to me like your going to run 35" + tires, if so, I'd seriously think about dana 60's, you'll be snapping front axle joints left and right, kinda like I do. Dam,note to self: I guess its time for me to start looking for a pair of 60's, cause my 44's I have not are going to be worth their weight in gold, unless all the xj's out there decide to bypass the 44's and go to 60's.</STRONG>

Yeah I think after reading the longarm thred it's going to have to be a pair of shaved 60's. The sheathing with thicker sheet metal was to try to avoid the can opener effect. Nothing too think, just thick enough so that it will beable to stand up to a little rubbin <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

[ 10-23-2001: Message edited by: Eddie Mcstiff ]