I have been having a problem with the front of my TJ. I have tried many thing to get rid of the problem but it is still there. For about a month I was running with out a steering stabilizer and had no problems, went weeling and came back and the front end felt like it was going to fall apart. Put a new stabilizer on and the problem was not as bad anymore but still there. Had a bent draglink, so replaced it along with the ball joints, problem still. Had the tires balanced, prob still. Had an alinment done and again still, put on new R/E track bar because the upper ball joint on the stock one looked bad. And finily I still have the problem. Has anyone experienced this and fixed it. please let me know what may need to be done. :confused:

get it aligned retard:flipoff2:

can you read? I did. So I didn't spell it right. :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Think maybe you can describe the vibration better....? :D Did you make it up this weekend? Sure you didn't nail the tie rod?

Paul

yeah i made it up there this weeked. This has been an on going problem for a while now. The tie rod is fine. Its kind of hard to discribe what it is doing. with the stabilizer off it looks like the tires slam from toe in to toe out and bounce really bad, and when i say really bad i meen it, it makes it hard to stop and cant turn and it dosent stop doing it untill I come to a complete stop. With the stabilizer on it just shakes at highway speeds. The big problem is brought on by bumps in the road at speeds of about 30-40mph. This seems to me to be more than just some bump steer.

Do you ever come into the City? I can look at it....

For what that's worth, anyway.

Paul

I am there every onece in a while. I am only about an hr north. Have you had any problem like this with yours?

i have, i set my caster at umm ohh i forget i think it was like 6 1/2 degrees... it helped alot... got rid of the violent wobble, havent put a steering stableizer on it yet, but i dont drive it on the street much at all

yea your front axle caster needs to be adjusted mine is set to 5 degrees and i run the front end toed out 3/4" it seems to do fine

... sounds like death wobble brought on by lack of caster.

Even if you get it aligned by a "professional" shop, most of them yahoos don't know what to do with the TJ's control arms, especially if you have aftermarket/ho-made arms. I've watched countless buddies get screwed by shops that supposedly did a complete front end alignment when they ignored the caster altogether.

FYI, Mopar does make offset upper ball joints to help get the caster as well as the pinion angle aligned.

cm " 'nuther plane just crashed" k

That sounds like what I am going to have to do. Now my next question is. What would have caused my caster to be off this bad to cause this, it had been fine for a year with all kinds of wheeln trips and then after on really dusty trip is when this happened. On the same trip caused both of by drive lines to go bad and I had to rebuild the CV on them. Could I have bent the nuckles or could the ball joints on them gone bad. I am just trying to figure out what caused this to happen.

... worn ball joints, bent ears, worn tie rod ends, bent control arm/bracketry, worn control arm joints, bad hubs, etc.

Any number of things could have led to the problem popping up all of a sudden.

It seems that caster is the cause of death wobble like 90% of the time, particularly in lifted TJ's. Take it to a shop and request them to check the caster angle ... throw on some safety goggles and watch the tech take the measurement. I'll betcha' the caster's off of spec by a couple degrees ... depending on how much lift you have.

There's a catch 22 in adjusting front caster on a solid axle because as you adjust caster, you also change the pinion angle. Even when you get the proper caster, you'll probably get a vibe from the pinion angle being off. This is where those Mopar offset ball joints can come in handy.

cm "or just reweld the ears on the tubes" k

... worn ball joints, bent ears, worn tie rod ends, bent control arm/bracketry, worn control arm joints, bad hubs, etc.
Out of all that, I haven't checked the ears and the worn control arm joints. On the control arms I am not sure what really to look for. Thanks for the info CMK

... worn ball joints, bent ears, worn tie rod ends, bent control arm/bracketry, worn control arm joints, bad hubs, etc.
Out of all that, I haven't checked the ears and the worn control arm joints. On the control arms I am not sure what really to look for. Thanks for the info CMK

Have you rotated tires?

have you checked your toe?

Have you torqued the trackbar bolts?

Caster isn't likely to change from wheeling unless you bend something thats pretty hard to bend.

I'd first check toe to near zero. Then I'd rotate tires one side at a time front to back.

Then I'd let Paul work on it :D Be very afraid if he grabs a sawzall ;)

- Dan

Here is one way to mess up the caster on your TJ:
http://www.cowtownjeeps.com/pics/arm/1.jpg

Things that I have seen cause death wobble:
1. too much toe in. I'm even running slightly toed out right now.
2. track bar loose on front
3. bad stabilizer
4. caster too low

By the way, what is the part number and price of the Mopar ball joints? I'd call the dealership, but if any of you have tried this you know how far that's going to get me.

Have you checked the rest of the driveline. I had a guy saying the same thing. He figured the front end was screwed but the front cv driveshaft was about to let go.

Well thats what my LCA mounts look like :idea: that just might be my problem. I was hoping to just wait to get my new axles done before I had to fix the mounts.

Originally posted by TornadoTJ
By the way, what is the part number and price of the Mopar ball joints? I'd call the dealership, but if any of you have tried this you know how far that's going to get me.

I dunno' to be honest with you. The parts were part of a TSB for either XJ's, ZJ's, or WJ's that a buddy of mine came across.

Any dealership parts guys with a decent set of stones should know where to look to find the P/N's.

If I remember, there were 3 different offsets: +/- 1.5, +/- 2.5, and +/- 3.5 degrees.

cm "get you some" k

Drunk guy,

You Have DW bigtime. We all had it.

I ended up replacing the entire front end.... tire rods. Control arms. Bearings, Stabizer, ball joints, Alignment and stearing box, drop pitman arm... just about everything I could to find my problem..

Actually I did the allignment last. And the toe in was the cause.

make sure they are straight. No matter what the spec says.

Caster on mine is 3 1/2 deg. Its fine now. I just had it re-aligned.

I thought when I dont have any problems is the time to find out where it should be. :D

Dont forget to check your wheel bearing assembly's They go bad often and cost about $100.00 each. that might also be part of your problem.

Good luck..... We have all gone threw this before...

Its a T-J Thing and I understand...... :D

If you still have that dropped pitman arm on, take it off. Bump steer is much less with the stock one on.

and about the part numbers, I'm getting close:
AR 05014876AA Ball Joint - 0.5 degree
AR 05014877AA Ball Joint - 1.0 degree
AR 05016972AA Ball Joint - 1.5 degree

Originally posted by redruM
yea your front axle caster needs to be adjusted mine is set to 5 degrees and i run the front end toed out 3/4" it seems to do fine

Toed out 3/4? :confused: Damn dude, that's alot. I have mine toed in about 1/8". I've been lucky to never had death wobble so far :D

Dont have the stock drop pitman anymore, broke 2 pullers after heating the sh!it out of it, had to cut it off. I am getting a 4 wheel alighnment tomarrow and am going to make sure of what all the settings are when done to know where to put it back to when it happens again and I am sure it will. Thank you all for all the great info. I hope this works.

DId you look at your shock bushings?

Yes, they seem fine

I have battled the deathwobble problem for over 10 months now and I have only recently figured mine out. I hope some of the information can benifit you. Initially I thought it was alignment and upon advise from a friend I toed it out a half turn and it took the wobble away......for awhile. The Hippy-Hippy-Shakes came back so I re-did a full alignment...no dice. Frusturated, I retourqed my wheel bearings, added dual steering stabalizers, rotated tires, and replaced misc. hardware in my steering system. None of this helped either. After talking to an old alignment guy, he suggested that I take caster COMPLETLEY out. So I did. Believe it or not, this worked for awhile. About a month later, the Death Wobble was back. Well, our club did our last scheduled ride for the winter so I decided to get the wheels balanced on the jeep since the back end was hopping a bit. While I was there while talking with the man balancing tires, he suggested that we use the stick on weights on the inside of the rim to not only balance the wheel radially but axialy also. After adding around 30 ounces of weight to each tire using stick on weights on the inside of the dish AND clip weights on the inside rim lip, the shake is gone, it drives like a TJ with 10" of lift and 39s should......like a 2001 Caddillac, being drug on its roof over lower 2 at Tellico...you heard me, still drives like ass,....but at least it isnt shaking AT ALL anymore. Best $30 I ever spent. Your local tire shop should be able to order the stick on strip weights. Try not to get forced into getting the tires balanced with the rim clip weights on the outside, believe it or not, these do NOT add traction on the rocks...they will fall off the first time they are scuffed.

Well I just got it back from the alighnment shop and that was a big Fawking help. Not only did they not find or fix the problem when I get the jeep back from them the fawking check engine light is on. I am so pist off right now. What I did find out is that I have a caster of +6 on one side and +6 1/4 on the other. The way that they explaned the caster thing to me dosen't make any sence for what is going on. If I am not mistaking a stock TJ has a caster of about +5 or so. no putting the lift on it and bringing the bottom of the axle back with the control arms to make the pinion right should take the caster more towards the - side and end up with a caster of like +2 or +3. How the hell did I end up with +6 unless somthing is Focked up. They did find that the toe was about an inch toe in and reset it to 1/8 toe in and Now they say that there is nothing wrong yet it still does the same thing. Should +6 be ok? I am getting really :mad: with this thing because it seams like I have done everything that has been said above, and I don't know where to go next.

Go look at your wheel weights. If you dont have weights on both sides of the rim go get them balanced correctly!!! I fought the DW for just short of a year. Your posts sound just like mine back in July.

First of all, don't pay for a 4 wheel alignment on a TJ, you only need a front end alignment. The rear has a caster adjust, but it's not gonna have anything to do with anything but rear driveshaft angle.

Tire balancing:
I don't know what tires you're running, but a lot of shops (including the one I used to work for) don't really give much effort to balancing any gnarly ass swamper--especially over 33". In general, Swampers and the like don't balance for sheet and are pretty square. HOWEVER, you are paying them, so make sure that they balance it to within at least an ounce with HAMMER ON weights on both rims. These can be supplemented by sticky wieghts (which every shop has) if the machine asks for some absurd amount of weight (like more than 12 ounces). Even with some decent balancing, some tires just like to wobble.

As far as the front end is concerned, a lot of shops can't do it for tires over 33 or 35". This is because the heads that they put on the rims can't see around the tire when they do a caster sweep. Unless you're going to some kind of large truck service place or they have the queen mutha alignment machine, they are probably just stretching a tape across the front end to do the toe. If this is the case (watch them do it, if things seem weird, ask what's going on), then pay no money, you can do that in your driveway.

If you have it balanced and aligned, check every bushing and bracket in your whole front end for signs of wear or bending. You might have bent something and it still looks normal, so you don't realize that your axle is U shaped...:(

Also, check the driveshaft. Unless you have Hubs, then your front driveshaft always spins because the TJ has no axle disconnect. That means if the shaft is bent or out of balance it would wobble and shake. Same if the bearing at the T case is shot. Niether of these would come through the steering wheel though.

Also, if you are getting your tires balanced and then going wheeling, they are probably gonna be out of balance (along with your alignment being out) if you really beat on it. So the symptom "it worked for a while and then wobbled again" just happens to be from your alignment and balance being out again. It happens like that when you put big meats on your front end and then beat on it....