need somting bent two sets of springs already.
but running short on room air tank and stuff any good info would help out.

*cough* TECH SECTION..... *cough* SEARCH..... *cough*

*cough* ummmmm *cough*.......
dont build that tech section trac bar, build a real one.....

Check the links on my site - I've got a simple, inexpensive, and easy to build wrap bar that works excellent.

Originally posted by 2hiToy
*cough* TECH SECTION..... *cough* SEARCH..... *cough*

ha ha ha :)

works fo me..

Brian.....the one problem with the two bars shown on your web page is that
they have the shackles mounted upside down. The bar system will bind with
the shackle run that way and not work nearly as well.

Jay

This looks good
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12394

Thank for the help and I did read the tec dep.
wanted a couple more ideas and i got them thanks, just one question does it have to be in the center or do I have to move the air tank??
thanks for the help again.

Center is optimal, but a little offset is ok too.
Jay

Originally posted by Brandon


ha ha ha :)

works fo me..

Somehow I knew my reply would not get past you.

well I wrote the article, you say don't use it but don't say why. Atleast say why.

If you got a better design, write an article...

I went through atleast 4 sets of springs before my bar, none since...

Originally posted by ROKTOY
Brian.....the one problem with the two bars shown on your web page is that
they have the shackles mounted upside down. The bar system will bind with
the shackle run that way and not work nearly as well.

Jay


Just one question...

Why????

I cannot seem to figure out what difference the orientation of the shackle would matter make..

:confused:

Has it seen the trail since you put the bar in? lol
Seriously, I like the Ladder Bar style. Not saying that the single bar does not help, but it does not eliminate the wrap.

Originally posted by ROKTOY
Brian.....the one problem with the two bars shown on your web page is that
they have the shackles mounted upside down. The bar system will bind with
the shackle run that way and not work nearly as well.

Jay

I beg to differ, it is set up perfect. As the axle tries to wrap, it will try to lift the bar, pulling up on the shackle. Because the bar mounts at two points on the axle, it will want to rotate the bar upward. With the single bar style, the axle wrap will pull the bar to the rear of the vehicle, limiting the wrap. But, there is nothing but the springs to hold the bottom of the axle, and the springs will bend a bit. So what happens is, the top of the axle is held in position, but the bottom can still pull forward, putting a bend in the front half of the spring.

Keith...I understand the difference between a single and double link track bar.

My point is that the high end of the shackle is better mounted to the the track bar, not the fixed point.

Most bars I've seen with the fixed shackle end mounted high tend to bind as the axle moves backward under compresion travel. I guess it would also depend on your shackle geometry and amount of angular swing in your shackle before the two links go into bind.

Jay

http://www.mindspring.com/~jayk3/toyota/track.gif

I could be looking at it wrong Jay, but I think he has it mounted the same way you cool diagram does. ( I really do like the diagram.)

But here is a few things I would change.

The shackle must be a goofy type, if you have much rear flex. I twisted the crap out of mine with a standard shackle, using spring bushings instead of a heim. I did not want to use a heim because they cost more than bushings, and I think they are not as strong. (unless you go to the trsctor shop.)

Where the bars weld together at the shackle end, dont leave a single bar exposed at the heim. I have seen them break there.

I would not run .120 wall tubing either. Use 1" schedule 80.

The 3/16" plates on the housing should be thicker.

My jeep ate the 1/2" bolts at the rear end.

I would not weld the bracket on top of the housing. Cut a half circle in it and weld it flush with the bottom of the housing. I would also box the ends.

Lots of torque down there, the design is perfect, but just needs to be a bit beefier.

Originally posted by Keith
Has it seen the trail since you put the bar in? lol
Seriously, I like the Ladder Bar style. Not saying that the single bar does not help, but it does not eliminate the wrap.

won't clutter this post with pics but read the tech n trail reports, had that bar for a while now..

http://www.rivercityrockcrawlers.com/TrailReports/Jergins_oct01/mvc-005s.jpg

http://www.pirate4x4.com/trailreports/irc_2000/irc37.jpg

http://www.pirate4x4.com/trailreports/pirate_trail/r0300106.jpg

http://www.rivercityrockcrawlers.com/TrailReports/Jergins_oct01/Mvc-0000/Mvc-004s.jpg

Come Awn Brandon, there ain't no way that bar works with those buggies...... Stay off the Margaritas man! Besides, having the bar and having do some good are two different things.

Keith...thanks for the comments.

I agree, if the bar binds, all kinds of stuff can bend or break. I have been running this same basic design on my truck for about 8 years now with no significant problems other than replacing the rear bushings about every year as they wear some.

Have run the bar down centered on the tube and on top of the axle as shown. No problems with either, just that the top mount works better on shorter wheelbase if you need to reduce the bar angle.

Jay

Originally posted by ROKTOY
Keith...thanks for the comments.

I agree, if the bar binds, all kinds of stuff can bend or break. I have been running this same basic design on my truck for about 8 years now with no significant problems other than replacing the rear bushings about every year as they wear some.

Have run the bar down centered on the tube and on top of the axle as shown. No problems with either, just that the top mount works better on shorter wheelbase if you need to reduce the bar angle.

Jay

I guess the bar on top of the tube would be ok if you welded it on real good, and had room enough to run it that high.

P.S. Brandon is drunk.

Keith

Originally posted by Keith
Come Awn Brandon, there ain't no way that bar works with those buggies...... Stay off the Margaritas man! Besides, having the bar and having do some good are two different things.

Kieth, I know the other design is better and someday I'll use it - just saying mine has worked for me and till it stops I'll keep it. It has stopped me from kinking springs that is all I know bout it.

It's all good, but look at the pics, yea with buggies in em..

I'll probably lose those too but for now it works

I run a trak bar in the front of my 4runner similar to the drawing but shackle side fixed point up no problems with flex I run a hiems joint on the track bar and shackle close to the same length
as the spring shackle. I use the full lenght of my 9012 and would get more flex with them unbolted( not that i would that) only problem I have is that I broken it 4 times just after the hiems as
was mention in another reply and it was made outa 1" solid.
my springs are real soft and i believe the effects of braking and torqure have work hardened it.


blah blah blah all in all its the best one I've tried. :beer:
I'd go 3/4" hiem or bigger

Originally posted by ROKTOY
Brian.....the one problem with the two bars shown on your web page is that
they have the shackles mounted upside down. The bar system will bind with
the shackle run that way and not work nearly as well.


Huh....I've run mine that way for about 18 months now...truck flexes incredibly, over 1200 on a 23 degree ramp, and "real world" use is significantly better. No axle wrap, no pinion breakage, no complaints. (Real leaf springs too...9 leaf front pack, 8 leaf rear, no buggies or funky shackle thingies...)

I run mine with the lower axle joint flush with the bottom edge of the axle and the top joint just above the pumpkin top edge. The lower bar is parallel and in "relatively" the same plane as the driveshaft. The shackle end is located just slightly above and behind the output of the transfer case.

Like I said, mine works great and can be built cheaply.

Originally posted by Keith


I guess the bar on top of the tube would be ok if you welded it on real good, and had room enough to run it that high.

P.S. Brandon is drunk.

Keith

oh come on..

There are reasons mine works for me, for one I have a 113" wheelbase so the effects of the pinion tilting in and out are mimimal, I would not put a single bar on my 80" wheelbase. I have installed quite a few bars like mine and all have done the job they were intended to do.

Mine is installed for rockcrawling - in which for the most part the center of the diff stays in the center therefore there is no effect of the pinion moving. I know if you are a desert runner and use a lot of travel (not articulation) then my design will force the pinion up on up travel and down on downtravel. With my wheelbase and my uses that effect is negligable. So come on get me with something better than "Brandon is drunk" :rolleyes:

http://www.rivercityrockcrawlers.com/TrailReports/Jergins_oct01/Mvc-0000/Mvc-004s.jpg



http://www.rivercityrockcrawlers.com/TrailReports/Jergins_oct01/MO.jpg

http://www.rivercityrockcrawlers.com/TrailReports/Jergins_oct01/morocks2.jpg