So say you have some 4x4 "clubs" that aren't affiliated with any larger group.

Now.. let's say these clubs, have the tendancy to tear trails up, either through stupidity or carelessness.

What would you do... education is not an answer, it won't work, and will just start a pointless fight.

The question is... how to deal with it. These types of "clubs" get areas closed, because of their actions.

So, what would you all do?

yes... I am asking because I know of 1-2 clubs up here that may be responsible to pushing an area of an ORV area to get closed.

fork

Watch the Pirates of the Rubicon video. In there is a Ranger talking about how we/they have to police our own or the trails are going to be closed. It may not be a pointless fight if the guys get an asskicking everytime they come out on a trail. Why not post up pics of these clubs next time the do something stupid with their club sticker on the side. Now that you have proof they will be shunned on the local trails by the people who view these threads. Violence isn't the answer but if its necessary to get the idiots off the trails so they don't get closed then you got any other ideas. I won't take a bypass 'cause I don't want my asskicked. If there is consequences for your actions then you may not do it.

actually you be surprised how education will work if presented right....

first I'll assume you've seen this "club" doing these things first hand and are not basing this on something somebody's brother's, uncle's, sister's, father-in-law's, third cousin said they saw. If you haven't witnessed this first hand (or got the info from a 200% reliable source, visit the local Forest Service/sheriff/Police and see what they have to say. once you have confirmed that they are in fact doing these things, then proceed as follows....

find out who the "leader" of each "club" seems to be. invite them out for a beer or something and to talk about 4 wheeling. then just tell it like it is. tell them there are people saying they see them tear the trails up. but make sure you tell them you are not blaming them, you just want to get the rumors to stop. explain to them that if the stuff you are hearing is true, that their club is getting things closed down...

if that doesn't work (and it might not, but you're only out a pizza and a few beers) then try to get all the other clubs in your area to "put some pressure" on them to straighten out.... peer pressure is a wonderful tool


as a last resort get the FS/Sheriff/local police involved. if in fact they are negligently (or purposefully :() ruining public land there are laws regarding vandalism about that....

I'm not sure where your located in referance to SNORT, but I'm sure those guys are down to help you "educate" theses guys...


just remember (like you said) fighting is pointless and will just get someone hurt for no reason....



:usa:

this is the same group that last year one of the member hauled off and backhanded his g/f for trying to tell him where to put his tire to get over a stump...

drunk, loud, careless, bootyfab etc... the only true way to get rid of em, is to follow them with a camera and get proof of who it is...

I agree with Yellowsub's approach 100%. If that should fail, you could approach law enforcement and inform them of vandalism and specifically name the clubs. After a few incidents are reported and the clubs' names show up, the police will pursue the matters as "gang activity". I'm not kidding. The "gang" classification gives the police more power to act against such groups.

Keep in mind, my suggestion should only be acted upon after the diplomatic approach has failed. My idea will only result in the dissolution of the offending groups and hard feelings all around. But, if they can't act responsibly then they deserve it.

Hef

Originally posted by DSI
this is the same group that last year they've ben doing this for over a year and no one's stepped up to try to stop it:confused:one of the member hauled off and backhanded his g/f for trying to tell him where to put his tire to get over a stump... anyone have pics/video?

drunk, loud, careless, bootyfab etc... the only true way to get rid of em, is to follow them with a camera and get proof of who it is...


if this is the case, why have the authorities not been contacted? or have they and have not done anythig about it? there's got to bee something missing here.....


:usa:

I agree with you YellowSub...

There are some I tried to educate. Hell.. I tried to GIVE them my treesaver so they wouldn't wrap cable around trees, that was after I explained to them how wrapping a cable around a tree is not only hard on the tree, but also hard on the cable. No dice.

These are the types of personalities I don't care to educate. The problem with enforcing is getting anyone to do anything. The DNR doesn't enforce their laws, the fish and wildlife guys could (in this case), but if fish and wildlife show up... that could cost us wheelers an entire area.

The County Sheriffs where up there and talked to some, but handed the info off to the DNR. (Not saying that the people they talked to yesterday were part of the problem.) So, nothing will come of that, again, the DNR won't enforce anything.

Part of the problem here is some motorbike guys that are upset over 4x4's. Now.. there are a few that are trying to kick 4x4's out, because it is "their" area. At least... that was the impression I got talking to them. After seeing that personality more often than not.. it just re-inforces my opinion of "Motorbike users are all assholes that don't deserve the right to ride". The only sad thing is.. these motorbike guys, might be in a position to actually start trouble w/ the government agencies. :( These are also the same guys that managed to get the "DNR" to close a gate, a gate that has been open for years, during the day.. trapping several of us behind it. No warning... I bitched the guy out because of it... ok.. thats another LONG story I won't go in to.:mad:

I should also note... unless there is a crime commited. Assault, Theft, Rape, Murder, etc. The Sheriff has no jurisdiction up there as far as I can tell.

Vandalism, etc. falls under the DNR, forest service, etc.

Hence the problem..

Originally posted by Travis Waldher
I should also note... unless there is a crime commited. Assault, Theft, Rape, Murder, etc. The Sheriff has no jurisdiction up there as far as I can tell.

Vandalism, etc. falls under the DNR, forest service, etc.

Hence the problem..

Whenever I get no response (or an answer I don't like) I go higher up. If the local guys won't do something then call their superiors. Do this until someone gets pissed enough to respond. Be a PITA.

Squeaky wheel gets the grease.:D

Hef

Travis, maybe you should try my first suggestion with the Motorcycle guys then...take them out for pizza and beer...talk to them, and make it clear that these 20 or so assholes are not associated wit hteh hundreds of law abiding people that use the area. you have to get the Motorcycle on your side.....especially if they have the power to "influence" like your saying, why not try to turn that into a positive influence.

here in Ca we have laws about destruction of public property and vandalism. the sheriff needs to take this seriously if there are in fact legitimate laws on the books in WA that hey are breaking...

you need to find out which agency has jurisdiction there and press them to fix this, call your congress persons and get them to make some calls. tell them there are a few people breaking laws and ruining it for others

some laws I think are being broken that could be pushed if someone has proof

domestic abuse (very, very serious - make sure there is absolute proof)

drinking and operating ANY motor vehicle is against the law as far as I know - on private or public land - I think this is a federal law

destruction of public property - the trails, the trees, whatever

littering - I'm almost going to bet they toss their cans and stuff out hte window but this is speculation on my part -

get pics and liscense plates for anything and everything they do -

If the local authorities won't do anything about it, go over their head - start with your county comissioners and mayor etc, then keep going to your Congress persons till somebody listens.... hound them until they listen, it's their job to listen - you just have to be loud enough, which is where the M/C guys can help.....


:usa:

Originally posted by YellowSub1962
[color=yellow]Travis, maybe you should try my first suggestion with the Motorcycle guys then...take them out for pizza and beer...talk to them, and make it clear that these 20 or so assholes are not associated wit hteh hundreds of law abiding people that use the area. you have to get the Motorcycle on your side.....especially if they have the power to "influence" like your saying, why not try to turn that into a positive influence.
:usa:

Hopefully I will find out this motorbike guy I talked to was 99% BS about who he was. I *hope* he isn't affiliated with the DNR at all.

He first told me he was with the DNR, then I asked for a card, then I told him I was Forestwatch DNR, and I hadn't heard a thing about what he was talking about. The beauty of it all... I just need to fill out a time card, and I was officially there on duty.

Then he said he was with the IAC.

This motorbike guy I talked to... he is far beyond deplomacy. He is so angry that he doesn't reason. So.. I'm not going that route. The real problem is the renegage groups/clubs that are giving this guy ammo. This guy was single track this, single track that. Gave me the impression he hated quads too.

Originally posted by moveaside
Watch the Pirates of the Rubicon video. In there is a Ranger talking about how we/they have to police our own or the trails are going to be closed. It may not be a pointless fight if the guys get an asskicking everytime they come out on a trail. Why not post up pics of these clubs next time the do something stupid with their club sticker on the side. Now that you have proof they will be shunned on the local trails by the people who view these threads. Violence isn't the answer but if its necessary to get the idiots off the trails so they don't get closed then you got any other ideas. I won't take a bypass 'cause I don't want my asskicked. If there is consequences for your actions then you may not do it.

Any idea which Ranger?

Dave

Originally posted by SR5Dave


Any idea which Ranger?

Dave


IIRC it wasn't a Ranger that was interviewed, but a Sheriff's
Deputy from Eldorado County.

offer to bring the sheriffs out with you ....offduty or not in uniform, and see if you can witness these guys acting like this.