Does anyone have any links or write-ups on doing a Mustang 5.0 Swap into their Jeep. I've seen Z&M's site and Chris Waterman's site as well. But would like to see some others to get ideas on what it takes and materials used.

Thanks:rolleyes:

Here are some links on 5.0 Swaps

http://www.bc4x4.com/chrisw/
http://www.feepness.com
http://www.outdoorwire.com/4x4/jeep
http://www.v8-ranger.com/engine/engine.html
http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Falls/2032/conv.htm
http://www.broncohq.com/rmte-5literhosefiswap.html
http://earth.vol.com/~gboyd/Bronco.htm
http://home.off-road.com/~bwiencek/projsr50/projsr50.html
http://members.tripod.com/~grannys/listbyengine.html
http://www.musclemotors.com/mustang/mustang.htm
http://www.mustangworks.com/articles/powertrain/50hints.html
http://trader.stangnet.com/ best place for stock parts
http://www.extreme-jeepin.com/swapinfo.htm
http://www.rangerpowersports.com/tech/v8swaps/whatyouneed/computer.shtml
http://www.windsor-fox.com/ expensive, never used their stuff
http://www.bc4x4.com/chrisw/projects/powertrain/wiring.asp if you re-use the factory harness
http://www.flex-a-lite.com/ they make CJ dual 12" setup, fits great
http://www.stangparts.com/
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2000/02/quicktips/index.shtml I bypassed the smog pump, don't rely on dimensions though
http://www.mustangwarehouse.com/contact.html good place for junkyard parts
http://www.truckworld.com/trail-trucks/00-81jeep-cj7/81-cj7jeep.html

Now thats a list. Any others?

I used the Bc4x4 information. It proved very helpful in the wiring diagram although a little tough to follow in some other aspects.

What do want to know...I know EVERYTHING :D

So you must spend countless hours at Mike's Garage then, right?

I'm looking for everthing, best year's for engines, best motor mounts, best wiring harness, flywheel info, bell housing info, what is removed, what is kept, etc., etc., etc.

I just want to be prepared before I attempt and want to avoid having the rig out of service for too long.

I'm trying to find several nice step by step write-ups.

hey ledger!

call me! I am finishing mine and i live in danville!!!!

corey

837-1985

Originally posted by ledjer
So you must spend countless hours at Mike's Garage then, right?

I'm looking for everthing, best year's for engines, best motor mounts, best wiring harness, flywheel info, bell housing info, what is removed, what is kept, etc., etc., etc.

I just want to be prepared before I attempt and want to avoid having the rig out of service for too long.

I'm trying to find several nice step by step write-ups.

If you are not going to build the motor then speed density is the way to go. 87 out of a mustang is the best year. 250 hp and 300 lb ft of torque. Best cam year...people building motors look for this cam. Motor is generally good through 200k miles w/ nothing but new heads.

Flywheel...buy a 5.8 flywheel out of a truck and get it match balanced to the stock 5.0 wheel. Get the bell housing from an f-150 - t-18 or whatever you are running. Motor mounts are easily made but z and m makes a nice set that's hanging on for me.

I bought the entire car. I used the enitre fuel system incl. the top of the mustang gas tank which I cut off and drilled to drop the whole thing into the jeep tank. (same heights as an 87 yj and others I think) I welded the yj sending unit to the housing of the pump holder.

Wiring is not too bad but a bare bones harness from ford motor sports would be WAY easier.

You don't need the speed sensor. it's a bad idea for crawling because you may idle over 1100 rpms when moving. other wise the motor will bog down to 300 happily and the computer will keep it running

Slap the motor in adjust the tps and hang on casuse that bastard will run upside down...make sure the TPS is adjusted to .999 volt because it will eratically idle otherwise.

Keep the questions coming

sillyneck-

why do you recommend using the 351 flywheel? is there an advantage over the stock 50oz?

did you use a manual or auto. tranny computer for your motor? mine came from an automatic and i've been told i need to swap it out. i really don't want to, considering, i would probably have to change over to mass air and then have problems finding mass air for my 30lb injectors and then get a mass air, bare-bone racing harness from ford. now we're looking at about $600 more than i can afford to spend right now.

what headers did you use? i ordered a set from AA. i just hope they last.

and back to the mass air, from your opinion, how much do you think it's going to matter if i don't have it and i am mildly building the motor? i am added a mild cam, new injectors, msd ign., new el. fan, hearders, stiffer springs, roller rockers and coming soon: gt-40 intake w/ a bigger throttle body and blocked off egr.


thanks for the advice -russel

:) :D

one last thing, for now, what is 'z & m's' website? thansk again- russel

If you are not going to build the motor then speed density is the way to go. 87 out of a mustang is the best year. 250 hp and 300 lb ft of torque.

I'd vote for mass air. '89-'93 engines (49-states) had this setup. I think the HP/ft-lb numbers are pretty similar, if not higher.

Flywheel...buy a 5.8 flywheel out of a truck and get it match balanced to the stock 5.0 wheel. Get the bell housing from an f-150 - t-18 or whatever you are running. Motor mounts are easily made but z and m makes a nice set that's hanging on for me.

IMHO it's easier to use the flywheel that came with the bellhousing, though it may be a bit lighter. If the truck had a 302, then no mods required. If it had a 300, it'll need rebalancing for the 302. You can use the truck's starter and clutch as well (mid 80's were ext-slave hydraulic).

Motor mounts are easy to build, or buy. Sillyneck, is it possible to remove the oilpan with that Z&M cradle-type mount? I've always wondered about that, but never met anyone who owned one.

Here's the mounts I built when I did my frame swap:
http://www.bc4x4.com/chrisw/projects/frameswap/mmnt6.jpg

I used the entire fuel system incl. the top of the mustang gas tank which I cut off and drilled to drop the whole thing into the jeep tank. (same heights as an 87 yj and others I think) I welded the yj sending unit to the housing of the pump holder.

Wow, not bad! Personally I found it easy enough to use the Jeep's fuel system, for the most part. You can put the 'stang pump into the YJ sender bracket with a little work. I recently swapped back to a YJ EFI filter as well, with the YJ bracketry and lines.

Wiring is not too bad but a bare bones harness from ford motor sports would be WAY easier.

Very true.

You don't need the speed sensor. it's a bad idea for crawling because you may idle over 1100 rpms when moving. other wise the motor will bog down to 300 happily and the computer will keep it running

Hmm, I dunno about this. The sensor is real nice to have if you're ever over 20mph. Without it, the rpms will drop real low if you use compression braking when coming in to a stop, and may stall. This happens because the computer thinks the vehicle is stopped (no speed sensor and TPS reads 0), and sees the RPMs are way high, so it pegs the idle control solenoid.

Slap the motor in adjust the tps and hang on casuse that bastard will run upside down...make sure the TPS is adjusted to .999 volt because it will eratically idle otherwise.

Interesting - I've had a slightly unsteady idle since forever, even after replacing the TPS. Where's the adjustment, and where are you measuring?

Keep the questions coming

You bet - there's lots of opinions around here!

Chris

http://www.bc4x4.com/chrisw/projects/frameswap/mmnt6.jpg



FRAM, huh? must not be to much of a reliable source for GOOD info!

:D

Getting a flywheel rebalanced is the only cheap way to get the bigger diameter on the mustang 5.0...the truck 302 motors are differently balanced as far as I know and 1 ounce out will eventually drop the crank out of your motor.

you might as well get the 5.8 for extra inertia weight. then you can get a late model 5 speed LUK clutch for the bigger diameter.


I would keep the Speed density. If you want to build it then NO CAM...heads intake (upper and lower) and throttle body will keep the idle the same but you will make just under 300 hp at the rear wheels if it's an 87. My friend has this set up and runs 10.2 on the bottle and 12 flat on the motor. (dead stock bottom end w/ 180 k on it and tons of nitros runs)

The reason I didn't keep the jeep fuel system was because I had a carbed yj which was all wrong. The mustang uses high pressure fittings that I have seen replaced w/ dual hose clamps and or fuel injection clamps but I have seen all kinds blow apart before which is not fun. So I just bent the lines to fit in my jeep which worked well.

I don't think the oil pan can come off w/ the craddle...but if I have to remove the oil pan that means the motor probably shot something through it :D So the motor would be coming out anyways. My motor will come out in 45 mins from how it sits so no biggie.

Mass air motors make 225 hp and 250 or 275 lb ft. They also require more crap to make them go fast. The cam needs to go...and there are no good idle replacements w/ low idle opportunity.

Now if I was building a race car I woul dbe all over the mass air. Damn thing will allow for 600 hp and 9k rpms if you build a sic 331 w/ it. Speed sensity runs better at altitude...doesn't care about lack of air...just adds more gas :D

Manual computer is the best for either a manual or auto if a few sensors are missing. It'll always run.

Now this is all mustang info...I ahve no idea about the truck motor stuff. I don't think it was the same motor at all...the roller stang motor has a differnt fire order and other crap. I think the truck motor is 180 hp and a good healthy torque number like the stang....it would be easier to do a truck motor because the flywheel is already the big diameter for the big bell housing.

Most of the stang gurus I have talked with, generaly consider the 89 automatic, as the strongest computer to build with. The next favorite computer is the 93 Cobra manual computer. I have no problems at all with my set up, as far as ideling propperties, or any short commings in the power/torque characteristics.
I have my idle voltage slightly lower than Silly's, but it idles perfectly at 700 rpms. If there was one thing I would complain about with regaurds to engine performance, is that at about 1900 rpms, it wants to really take off, and I have to be carefull with the throttle pedal on a bumpy road, or it wants to rev up to about 2500 rpms every chance it gets. But still the 5.0 gets great trail gas mileage, and strong usable power from idle on up to ridiculouse rpms., it runs upside down, maintanes good oil pressure, even at low rpms, and runs nice and cool,...Whats not to like???
One other short comming of the 5.0 is the fact that it uses a Ford power steering pump, instead of a Saginaw, so there are no bolt on high performance pump options. But if you are bracketry making wizard, that problem can be remedied, and a saginaw can be used in place of the Ford pos.
Good luck, and good choice.

I have my idle voltage slightly lower than Silly's, but it idles perfectly at 700 rpms.

Again, where do you measure this voltage, and how do you adjust it?

One other short comming of the 5.0 is the fact that it uses a Ford power steering pump, instead of a Saginaw, so there are no bolt on high performance pump options.

The guys at AGR told me (and I've heard the same thing on one of these boards) that you can bolt the Saginaw pump and brackets from a mid-80's Ford Econoline onto the 5.0L. If you get the right brackets, you can keep the A/C compressor as well, for OBA.

I bought the brackets & pump myself recently, but haven't had the time to test fit them yet. Guess we'll see...

Chris

Heres what I have so far.

1990 5.0
with original harness
Automatic Computer.

external electric fuel pump from an f-250. cheap and figured it would work.

M.O.R.E motor mounts. Check them out at www.mountainoffroad.com They kick ass! excellent product excellent service

Flywheel from 300 I6 motor rebalanced for the 5ho:D
Little advise with this is to take your crank down when you have the flywheel balanced. You will save yourself alot of money.
also while your at it take the rest of the guts down and have it all balanced. Why not it's all out of the block anyway.

Bellhousing clutchfork ans slave cylinder out of an 86 F-250.

Np435 and dana300.

Getting wilwood pedal and mastercylinder for the clutch.

And as far as that saginaw swap I just did it. It's fawking easy. I can post pics tonight maybe.

All you need is that bracket from the ford van a saginaw pump, usually already attached to the bracket
take it home and modify bracket a little to make it work.

For the pulley I just reamed out the orginal hole a little so the pulley would fit on the saginaw shaft. the pulleys lined up perfectly.

I have heard from Z and M that the auto computers are better. I believe it is due to some extra timing feature that the manual computer doesn't have.

I just need to see if I can get the auto compuer and manual 4 speed tranny to slide by the ref when the time comes.

I would be very interested in seeing those pics because I am in the middle of this swap and I was debatingon how to switch to a sagnaw box. Thanks in advance

so, i cannot use a standard 157 tooth, 50oz flywheel for a 302 to a t18? is this b/c the bellhousings from the trucks are bigger and my stock 302 starter will not work w/ the stock flywheel. i am asking b/c i havn't gotten a flywheel yet, my motor was actually mated to an automatic and i have been looking for a new flywheel and was just giong to bid on one from a mustang from ebay.

-russel

I am in exactly the same boat as u are. I thought I could just use a stock 5.0 flywheel and then a clutch for a t-18 what is the problem with that?

DON"T TAKE THE CRANK OUT !!! :D you can simply bring the stock 50 oz flywheel and they will bolt them together and balance...if you can't find someone to do this...call REM roseville engine machine shop....they did mine for 50 bucks.

the TPS is measured off the positive wire going to the sensor...should be obvious....if you find that the volts are off..loosen the two screws and twist until it is right...if that doesn't get enough range then remove the tps and bore the holes PERFECTLY for more range rotation. You do this w/ the acc power on but the motor OFF.

if you mean 5.0 as in mustang then the flywheel is too small in diameter to have the starter reach the flywheel from the small block bell housing. simply put

Originally posted by olivesman
one last thing, for now, what is 'z & m's' website? thansk again- russel

www.zandm.com

Originally posted by Sillyneck
DON"T TAKE THE CRANK OUT !!! :D you can simply bring the stock 50 oz flywheel and they will bolt them together and balance...if you can't find someone to do this...call REM roseville engine machine shop....they did mine for 50 bucks.


My problem was I had a flex plate. that was tweaked.
I guess if I had the mustangs flywheel it coulda worked.

When we all have our shiat running we should start having Fivepointhoe powered jeep get togethers.

so, i cannot use a standard 157 tooth, 50oz flywheel for a 302 to a t18? is this b/c the bellhousings from the trucks are bigger and my stock 302 starter will not work w/ the stock flywheel.

You want ALL the truck stuff, and NONE of the Mustang stuff. Truck flywheel, truck clutch, truck starter, truck bellhousing, and of course the truck tranny. It'll all bolt up to the 'stang engine just fine.

Chris

Why don't you just get a 5.0 F-150 engine and mount it in the jeep instead of the Mustang? Is there a huge difference?

Originally posted by ledjer
Why don't you just get a 5.0 F-150 engine and mount it in the jeep instead of the Mustang? Is there a huge difference?

60 hp :D or more

Thats a big enough difference to me.

the mustang motor is a HO motor, which means a bunch: different head stuff, hydrollic roller cam (main difference), different intake(which, unless you got a cobra motor, can be better), bigger injectors, different fuel rails(i think), stock reduced pullys, etc,etc.

i messed up and got a sissy 5.0 from a crown vic. i was trying to save some $$ but i spent everything i saved beefing up the new motor just to be as tuff as the stock HO.


another flywheel question: will any year truck flywheel, clutch etc. work w/ other (if they're all from a t18)? the T18 i have came from a FORD truck, but i have no idea of the year. i am assuming it will all be the same year from year.

anybody have the bellhousing, flywheel, etc that i need, that they wanna get rid of? i can't find anything this crap in ANY junkyards down here in Georgia.

thanks again guys- russel

they are a dime a dozen out here.

All the crap can be acheived from any year that used a small block be it an IL 6 - 351 that was attatched to an np 435 or t-18. use the BH the fork the clutch the fluwheel...it all works. each set up is different but any combination actually will work. Who knows what I have for sure. I think a late model 5.8 flywheel - with a very late model clutch for a five speed - a bell H from an oldschool sb - t-18 truck. The for was out of god know what...I found it on the ground and it fit the ball :D I have a slave cyl w/ a "Sillyfabservice" mount so that makes a bit of difference as far as not having to make factory linkage work too.

so, from what i've found, we have a choice of 3 flywheel diameters: 10", 11", 13.75" . i'm sure that's not conclusive, but i'm assuming that i need to be looking for a 13.75".

thanks again guys- russel

Heres what I have been through with the bellhousings.
I have now owned ever bellhousing but the one I really want:D

I had a bigblock to np435 bellhousing that came with the tranny I bought.

I have a cast steel smallblock to np435 bellhousing that uses a smaller flywheel and will not work for the flywheel I have.

I have the aluminum bellhousing form a straight six and NP435 that utilyzed manual clutch linkage. This would have worked for me but I do not Like the way the clutch fork is secured to the bellhousing.

The final bellhousing that I am looking for and already have all the accesories for , is an aluminum bellhousing that has a ball stud that holds the clutch fork in place very secure and won't drop off the pivot like the others. It also has the provisions to mount all the factory hydro clutch slave on it:D.
This bellhousing also will work with the rebalanced I6 flywheel I have.

This In my opinion is the bellhousing to seek out. I did find one at the pick and pull but only grabbed the slave cylinder and bracket because I thought it was all the same and it would work. Boy was I wrong.

Went back the following week and the housing was gone:mad:

The Bellhousing you want is the one that uses an 11" clutch.

I think that the larger one is for the big block motors.

So I should be fine with the truck 5.0 flywheel and an 11 inch clutch for the t-18? I already have the hydrolic slave bellhousing.

Originally posted by Bgcj5
So I should be fine with the truck 5.0 flywheel and an 11 inch clutch for the t-18? I already have the hydrolic slave bellhousing.

You bastard:flipoff2: You need to give me that bellhousing right this minute.

Finding Mustang engines are fairly rare around the yards here, so what other Ford cars came with the HO engine that would be a good donor.

cjboxer

I have one last quick question, from what I have gathered I can buy the truck 5.0 flywheel and clutch and just bolt them on to my 89 mustang 5.0 with out rebalanceing the flywheel? I can also then buy the truck starter and everything will bolt right up? thanks for the help.

Bgcj5, yes, you've got the idea.

If you can't find a truck 5.0 flywheel, you could have a truck 300 flywheel rebalanced for the 302 instead.

Chris

i've found a guy on this board w/ an alluminum bellhousing, 1970 12" flywheel and the clutch kit to go w/ it. he doesn't want to much for it, but i was affraid that the flywheel isn't the one i need. i mean, i guess as long as the splines line up, it should be ok, but what will i do for a starter? i really don't feel like having to pop the hood and rig it every time i have to start up :) he said he doesn't know what year car/truck the bellhousing is off of but he said it is the 6 bolt style and will bolt to the 4spd. i guess i'm just looking for some advice. anything terrribly wrong w/ this setup? it was so cheap, i went ahaid and bought it from him, i figured i could at least use the bellhousing and probably the clutch kit. i think he said it was a 10.5" disk.


thanks guys- russel

Well, it sounds right. Does that help? ;)

Let us know how it goes...
Chris

Originally posted by olivesman
i've found a guy on this board w/ an alluminum bellhousing, 1970 12" flywheel and the clutch kit to go w/ it. he doesn't want to much for it, but i was affraid that the flywheel isn't the one i need. i mean, i guess as long as the splines line up, it should be ok, but what will i do for a starter? i really don't feel like having to pop the hood and rig it every time i have to start up :) he said he doesn't know what year car/truck the bellhousing is off of but he said it is the 6 bolt style and will bolt to the 4spd. i guess i'm just looking for some advice. anything terrribly wrong w/ this setup? it was so cheap, i went ahaid and bought it from him, i figured i could at least use the bellhousing and probably the clutch kit. i think he said it was a 10.5" disk.


thanks guys- russel

You might need to rebalance that flywheel. Ford changed the balance on the 5.0 in '80. So if the engine (or at least the crank) is post '80 and the flywheel is pre '80 it will bolt up but it won't have the correct balance. This is true of the front balancer as well. As for what to do about a starter, I guess I would see how many different ones there are for 302 Fords and try them one by one until one fits. I would guess there would only be 1 or 2 choices.

Finding Mustang engines are fairly rare around the yards here, so what other Ford cars came with the HO engine that would be a good donor.

The Lincoln LSC engine is the same as a Mustang engine. The only real difference is that the upper intake is flopped 180 degrees, so the throttle body faces the driver's side rather than the pasenger's side. Other than that, it has the same heads, cam, and rotating assembly. To reposition the upper intake, you will need to modify the LSC's original throttle body, or just buy a 5.0 Mustang throttle body. The 5.0 HO engine could also be found in some Thunderbirds, but I don' know the models to look for.

The best factory computer to use for any 5.0 Mustang MASS AIR engine swap, are the computers with th A9L application code on the tag. The A9P computer is virtually the same as the A9L. Any mass air computer will work though, it's just those two are simplest to modify. Speed density does make a little more power on stock engines than mass air does, but nobody is really sure why. You could put a cam in a speed denisty engine, but there should be virtually no overlap on valve timing if you want the engine to run correctly. Mass air computers don't have a problem with lots of overlap.

Im would tend to stay away from the 1993 Cobra computers. They work fine, but rely on a few sensor calibrations which are non standard. You wouldn't just be able to plug a regular mass air computer into a 1993 Cobra's wiring harness and have it work. Just something to think about.

One fellow mentioned a MAF calibrated for 30 lb/hr injectors. They are easy to get through Best Products (www.pro-flow.com). OR, you could buy an EEC Tuner, leave the stock MAF, and just change the injector size to 30's within the computer. You would need a mas air computer to use the EEC Tuner though. Price wise, the EEC Tuner would be more than an aftermarket MAF, but would be more versatile in the long run (can change timing, A/F, turn off emissions, etc).

If you adjust the TPS voltage too high, the vehicle will begin to surge and buck under low speed, medium load, conditions. I typically leave the TPS anywhere between .95-.98 volts in my Mustang. Really all static TPS voltage will do is determine how quickly total timing comes back in after a shift. If you were so inclined, you could even et this value to zero with an EEC Tuner, so timing never retards during the shift. If you didn't have a VSS though, this might be irrelevant.

Anyway, disclaimer, I know nothing about Jeeps, but alot about Mustangs. I've been drag racing Mustangs since 1989, but I just inhereted my Jeep two weeks ago. Good thing I found this web site. :)