okay so me and a buddy were thinkin the other day about 4wd/awd systems.

it snows like hell around here, and i like grand wagoneers for DDs.

the 80s fullsize jeeps came with either a quadratrac (np219) selectrac (np228/229) or command trac (np208) case. the qtrac i'm not sure on the workings. i think it's like the 70s qtrac except that it uses a viscous coupling and can run around on pavement in low range because the axles do not lock unless you force them to. the 229 (i'm just gonna not talk about the 228 cuz it sux) is also a viscous coupling xcase with locking lo range. and the 208 is a part time unit.

219: 2hi, 4hi fulltime, 4hi parttime, 4lo FT, 4lo PT
229: 2hi, 4hi FT, 4lo PT
208: 2hi, 4hi PT, 4lo PT

so what if i stuck some LSDs or truetracs front and rear on a 219 equipped waggy? would that make it run like a quadradrive on a WJ? qdrive, BTW, has the capability to send power to only one wheel if that wheel is the only one receiving traction.

that ricer discussion got me thinkin on this because of the talk about AWD.

lata

well it wouldnt work like the grand cherokee's do, the way they can claim to send power to only one wheel is buy using the ABS sensors to detect wheelspin and apply brake power to those tires.

However this does not mean you can not have a great performing snow vehicle by taking a FSJ with fulltime fwd and adding LSD's. It will work great and be very drivable. Honestly if you get a real good LSD (like a powerlock) you may get some of the bad charictoristics associated with all 4 tires spinning at the same time, maybe get some Trac-loks I think they are a good compromise for something being built for mild snow bashing.

I would agree with the LS. Try auburns. The WJ uses a gerotor setup that sends power to wheels with traction on either axle. The mercedes and other SUVs use the ABS system to stop wheel spin.

SeanP

How bout a Eagle? :D Massage the engine a bit, maybe a turbo propane conversion, LSD's, some ATko's or MT's, throw some tube bumpers on, gut it to loose weight, 6-pt cage, and you have a nice little beater rally car:D
http://www.arcticboy.com/media/eagle/Eagrwb.gif

hmmm yeah hadn't thought about the eagle... i hear the dana 30 IFS is really crappy on those tho, and they have the 2 piece AMC20... not like i couldn't swap in a 1 piece rear if i was gonna swap xcases too....

i dunno, i kinda like the wagoneers cuz they're big and have a nice solid v8. eagle's definetly a thought tho, it would get much better fuel mileage, 'specially with propane.

I'ev not heard anything about the D30 ifs, good or bad. It's not like you want to put larger tires on it. Do you want to beable to go rockcrawling in your DD? If so never mind unless you want to do a SAS on an Eagle. I dont think it would be too bad for blasting around it. Good to go skiing. Hell, get some studs for the winter. I might do this. For the $$$$ to buy a used WRX in a year I could build a killer Eagle:D It is a bit uglier than the WRX though.

very good point. i probly wouldn't get anything bigger than 30s on it. what do you guys think about a 4.5L stroker in an eagle? the eagle used the same xcases as the jeeps of the same era, BTW, so swaps would be easier than a drunk cheerleader at homecoming. i like my cars ugly, BTW!!!:flipoff2:

There is one on ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/aw-cgi/ebayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=597860157&r=0&t=0) for $1050. I think you could find cheeper. If you were going to stroke it, look for one that burns oil and smokes somthin awful. You should beable to pick it up for a song and a dance. I'm thinking the General Lee paint on a nice 4.5/4.9L :D that paint may be to purdy though:flipoff2:

Heck, if you really wanted to get fancy you could find one of those 4.3 typhoon engines. Then you could out accellerate most high $$$$ sports cars.

I've heard the full size Wagoneers only get around 10 MPG with full time :(

I'm a bit skeptical about the systems that use brakes to balance the torque. Some friends of mine live on a mountain with a lot of winding dirt roads and they are going through brake pads like mad on their Subaru Forester. They aren't mech inclined either, so they keep having to have complete brake jobs instead of just pads because they put it off too long :eek: I noticed Subaru is putting a limited slip in the rear of a lot of their cars as of a year or two ago, maybe that's why.

Proper tires are FAR more important than the type of drivetrain you have. I'd prefer a rear-wheel drive car with studs over a WRX or Audi, or whatever, without proper tires. However, put studs on a WRX and I won't stop smiling :D :D

Originally posted by Vermont_Toy
Proper tires are FAR more important than the type of drivetrain you have. I'd prefer a rear-wheel drive car with studs over a WRX or Audi, or whatever, without proper tires. However, put studs on a WRX and I won't stop smiling :D :D

True, a 2wd pickup will with boggers would most likely do better in alot of stuff that a Jeep with AT's.

Originally posted by Vermont_Toy
I've heard the full size Wagoneers only get around 10 MPG with full time :(

depends on how you drive. i've had weeks where i got 8 mpg (playin around with 4hi) and i've had weeks were i've gotten 17 mpg (leaned out the carb and kept my foot nice and light). that's with a 360 and 3.31 gears mind you.

i average 12 mpg. i spose if i kept it in 4hi all the time, i would get about 9-10 mpg. i figger once i get some big meats on the ol girl i should get about, oh 8 mpg all the time :D

i like the ugly factor of eagles. for some reason i'm strangely attracted to station wagons. a big selling point for the WRX for me is that you can get it in a wagon version :D:D:D:D

what other kinds of AWD xcases are there? all i really know of is the viscous coupling type (np 219, 229; my g/f's beemer) and the qtrac type, and the newer gerotor type.

Originally posted by WillyPete
what other kinds of AWD xcases are there? all i really know of is the viscous coupling type (np 219, 229; my g/f's beemer) and the qtrac type, and the newer gerotor type.
Other NP/NV cases or stuff that subaru and the like use?
I think Eagles come with a non lo range case not sure of the # though.

i meant like types of operation. i.e., viscous coupling as opposed to differential driven or gerotor. inqquiring minds want to know ;)

waaay ahead of you people. sort of.

www.auburn.edu/~zornmat/eagleside.jpg

I managed to unlock the rearend, now all I have to do is get it running. Then the swaps begin. Muhahahaha.

BTW, this one was $212 on ebay

So does the SX/4 have a trunk? If not what type of storage space do ya get. May not be as practical as the wagon but more fun:D I found a Car and Driver build-up (http://www.javelinamx.com/JavHome/articles/altereag.htm), From the artical "The Eagle uses a steering gear supplied by GM's Saginaw division that just happens to be very similar to hardware fitted to various GM car lines. Such as the Firebird Trans Am. And to get that T/A racerlike feel through the wheel once you've got the Saginaw gear under your hood, all it takes is the right spool-valve assembly, GM part number 7832057. The key difference is a stiffer torsion bar that sends a lot more road feel through before the power assist takes over. One presto-changeo operation on the garage floor, and the Eagle had true sports-car steering sensitivity." Pritty cool stuff.