I have had a few pm's about setting up cutting brakes, so I thought I would just post the response on the board.
I use a very simple set up. I have a line lock hooked up between the rear brake line T and each rear caliper, and mounted on a bracket on the pig, The line locks are waterproof, but I may mount them on the frame rails and run a brake line down to each caliper one of these days, to get them up higher. I was trying to keep costs down, and this is the cheapest and easist install.
Each line lock, is on a switch at the shifter, and an LED light indicates if either side is actuated.
http://bbs.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/53-595874-MVC-019S.JPG
http://bbs.off-road.com/wwwthreads_uploads/53-595877-MVC-017S.JPG.
Let me know if you need more info. Its really very simple, but it works great and doesnt cost a small fortune.

:eek:

You Da Man H8!!!

That's some pretty awesome fabrication skills you got there... Where did you purchase the line locks?

Jake Harsha

Originally posted by Jakesteramalamajama
You Da Man H8!!!

That's some pretty awesome fabrication skills you got there... Where did you purchase the line locks?

Jake Harsha

Summit Racing.
I just got the Biondi, bare bones package, for $39 each. Lance had recommended them after he installed a single line lock to the rear as a cutting brake. I tried the single set up and it worked fairly well, but the double cut on a dime. If you had an ARB in the rear so that you could go open, and dissengage the rear drive, you could cut like a Bobcat Tractor.
I wouldnt buy the more expensive line lock packages, because the line locks all work the same(in fact one of mine is actually a TCI brand or something like that), the switches they come with are momentary switches and must be held continuosly. I just bought a couple of quality push on/push off switches from an electronics store, and some 12v LEDs. The switch bracket on the shifter was just a pice of 3/16" steel I spent about 15 minutes, grinding to the shape I wanted, then welded in place.
The 18" hard brake lines are about $3 each put a 5 amp fuse in line for power to both switches(they only draw 1 amp each), and run a line back for each solonoid. Less than a hundred bucks, maybe 4 hours to fabricate and hook up everything.

Look into the turning brakes used in sandrails:D
http://www.hevanet.com/chriss/images/nealturn.jpg

Too bad I have a spool... I'm guessing the turning brakes wouldn't work to well for me:D

Originally posted by Rocktoad
Look into the turning brakes used in sandrails:D
http://www.hevanet.com/chriss/images/nealturn.jpg

Too bad I have a spool... I'm guessing the turning brakes wouldn't work to well for me:D

We used to use those on our sand rails, but you have to manualy hold, the versions we have used. They are also a little spendy and new hardlines need to be ran to the brake levers then all the way back to each brake. I have no doubt that you could make them work awsome, but you may be $400 or more into them when its all said and done.

So..........basically you splice into the brake lines, just before the caliper? And they're electronically actuated? Damn, only $40 a piece sounds pretty good... :D :D I'd only seen the manual ones before.......too bad I'm running a spool right now!

So, since it's a line lock, your steps to use it are:
1. Actuate the brake
2. Lock the side to which you're turning.
3. Step off brake
4. Turn
5. Unlock line

Or do yours automatically put the pressure you need just at the press of a button?

Do you have to have an ARB to install cutting brakes? Im still kind of confused how all this works. For example im running a Detroit in the rear with an 8.8 and a spooled D44 up front. Could I install cutting brakes?

Thanks for any info. This would be a shit load easier than making a rear steer axle :D

Tony

Don't think that just because you have a spool, you can't use them. I have spools front and rear, a twin sticked 300, and a Jamar Manual Lever. I just removed one handle, and spliced into the line going to the rear. Much easier and more reliable than all the electronic hoopla. I think it is better to vary the braking pressure rather than just full on or full off. The Currie's and myself were some of the only one's with the brakes in the stock mod. class at the Warn comp. Saved me a ton of points. You can get a single handle out of Hot VW magazine for around $55, and two new hard lines and you are done. Very simple.

excuse my ignorance on this guys, but can someone explain in detail the way it works and the reasons. I am assuming to allow a locked rig to turn easier by locking the brakes on the inside turning wheels???

BlueYJ :cool2:

Originally posted by BlueYJ
excuse my ignorance on this guys, but can someone explain in detail the way it works and the reasons. I am assuming to allow a locked rig to turn easier by locking the brakes on the inside turning wheels???

BlueYJ :cool2:

Inside rear only. Using that as a pivot point.

So Mo,

How does that effect a locker in the rear? worse yet a spool. Doest it cause these to explode?

BlueYJ :cool2:

Originally posted by BlueYJ
So Mo,

How does that effect a locker in the rear? worse yet a spool. Doest it cause these to explode?

BlueYJ :cool2:

Dunno. I'd imagine it's pretty tough on a spool Diff end of the axle shaft want's to turn, the brake is holding the wheel end still. Something has to give.

My money is on the friction at the brake, for a while... then the shaft.

Here is how it works.
1st of all, You need to have a T case and twin stick that can disengage the rear drive line.
When you want to turn, you press your foot on the brakes, and actuate the solonoid button towards the inside of your turn. you take your foot off the brakes(and the inside tire stays locked up, essentialy becomming the pivot point), you shift the rear drive line to neutral, and turn hard towards your turn, using only the fron axle to drive you around, the rear pivot. Its very affective for tight turns.
A manual valve works just as well, and using only a single line lock to the rear works affectively also. But you do need to have, a disengageble rear drive, other wise low gears will just drive right out of the brakes.
As far as manual over electric, its just a matter of choice, but theres actually not a lot of "Hoopla", its one line carrying 1 amp, to the simplest of all electronic components(a coil solonoid). I have seen my freinds high dollar "Mico" manual lock freeze up the valve, and not release. So make your choice.

"1st of all, You need to have a T case and twin stick that can disengage the rear drive line. "


Well that sucks sh!t! I guess me and my Np-231 are out of luck :D

Hey H8monday,

Thanks for the explanation that makes sence. I was wondering how my transfer case would hold up to that stress also. You answered that. I will see your in action saturday. Good luck.

BlueYJ :cool2:

Another way I have thought about trying is if you have cable operated emergency brakes.You could get a pair of hand brake levers from an import car and run 2 brake cables.One for each side.No wiring to mess with and with the racheting levers you could adjust the pressure.Also doubles as an emegency brake you wouldn't need to worry about losing pressure overnight like the line locks do.Blazin:jeep2:

Forgive my ignorance but why would you have to disengage the rear drive with and ARB, OX, or even an open diff.? If you had an ARB in the rear so that you could go open, and dissengage the rear drive, you could cut like a Bobcat Tractor.

Wouldn't the power just go to the unbraked wheel allowing you 3 tires to turn with, not just the front axle pulling you around? Or would the power going to the rear also just drive you forward and drag the braked side? Like I said, forgive my ignorance... :D

Originally posted by Brian E
Don't think that just because you have a spool, you can't use them. I have spools front and rear, a twin sticked 300, and a Jamar Manual Lever. I just removed one handle, and spliced into the line going to the rear. Much easier and more reliable than all the electronic hoopla. I think it is better to vary the braking pressure rather than just full on or full off. The Currie's and myself were some of the only one's with the brakes in the stock mod. class at the Warn comp. Saved me a ton of points. You can get a single handle out of Hot VW magazine for around $55, and two new hard lines and you are done. Very simple.

We just unlocked and used our E brake. Frank's (Currie) turned really good due to the ARB. The seperate lines with an ARB turned much better. Though due to the ARB problems Matt had I think a spool's in his near future. Brian, I forgot to say thanks for the lug wrench when we were changing the axle on the white TJ.

Originally posted by blazin
Another way I have thought about trying is if you have cable operated emergency brakes.You could get a pair of hand brake levers from an import car and run 2 brake cables.One for each side.No wiring to mess with and with the racheting levers you could adjust the pressure.Also doubles as an emegency brake you wouldn't need to worry about losing pressure overnight like the line locks do.Blazin:jeep2:

i've seen that done and it works.:p

Originally posted by Peabody
Forgive my ignorance but why would you have to disengage the rear drive with and ARB, OX, or even an open diff.?

Wouldn't the power just go to the unbraked wheel allowing you 3 tires to turn with, not just the front axle pulling you around? Or would the power going to the rear also just drive you forward and drag the braked side? Like I said, forgive my ignorance... :D

Yes. This would work.

So what about if your running a detroit and a np-231? could I atleast lock out one corner? or is the Detroit not going to go for that??? :skull:

Originally posted by Rockbuggy
So what about if your running a detroit and a np-231? could I atleast lock out one corner? or is the Detroit not going to go for that??? :skull:

No. When power is applied to the rear end, the Detroit will try to turn both axles.

With the rear driveshaft disengaged, the detroit is in "coast mode" (for lack of a better term) and the wheels are free to differentiate. Your transfer case needs to have some sort of "front wheel drive" mode (ala twin stick) for a detroit to work with cutting brakes.

Oh, and--contrary to what someone else posted on this thread--a spool-equipped rear end (even with a twin-stick case) wouldn't be worth the going to the trouble and expense of installing cutting brakes. Sure, it might turn a bit sharper, but consider the following: Hitting one brake on a spool-equippped axle assembly is just the same as hitting both because both wheels are mehcanically connected by (what amounts to) a solid shaft. You'd be better off just hitting the emergency brakes and spreading the load do both sides.

My dos centavos,
Jake

Oh, and I think Currie sells a 231 twin-stick conversion kit.

Jake

Originally posted by Jakesteramalamajama
Oh, and I think Currie sells a 231 twin-stick conversion kit.

Jake

Is it actually a twin stick?
I am pretty sure that the Currie, kit only allows for 2 wd low, with the front disengaged, like what the Tera 2WD low kit does. It would be pretty hard to twin stick an NP231,....but who knows the Curries are always comming up with some trick stuff.

Originally posted by H8monday


Is it actually a twin stick?

I thought so, but now that I think about it, maybe you're right... :confused:

Jake

Here is how I did it with my spool. Take the hard brake line from the proportioning valve, run it into the cab, into one side of the cutting brake. Then from the cutting brake continue the hard line to the rear axle before the T-fitting. When you pull up on the handle, it will actuate BOTH rear brakes. This is the same as using an E-brake. The same thing can be accomplished with a line-lock, I just think variable pressure is a big advantage while using the brake. The effect of the cutting brake doesn't come from just the inside rear being locked, it comes from the turned wheels on the front end pulling to one side or the other, while the rear doesn't push. Trust me it works just fine. I watched the Currie's all weekend long. They have a Detroit in the back of the TJ. When the do it, both rears usually stayed locked. This just drags the outside rear around, just like a spool. Jason Paule here in Rapid has ARB's on the buggy. When he uses the cutting brakes, he always has his foot on the brake pedal to keep the speed down. Every time I have watched him use the brakes, he pulls the inside handle, and the outside stays locked just because of the little pressure on the brake pedal. The only T-case's I think you can do this to are early twin stick Model 18's, twin stick Dana 300's, and an Atlas.

Whew I hope this helps

Originally posted by Brian E
When you pull up on the handle, it will actuate BOTH rear brakes. This is the same as using an E-brake. The same thing can be accomplished with a line-lock, I just think variable pressure is a big advantage while using the brake. Whew I hope this helps

O.K. That makes a lot more sense. :)

Jake

I noticed a big improvement in the cutting characteristics using individual right and left rear brakes with the Detroit. I ran it with one for a while also. The improvement does not neccessarily come in the form of a tighter cutting radius in all situations, as much as it just seems smoother and easier on the drive train, in high traction conditions. The detroit when not under load at the pinion shaft, will differentiate from side to side. So when the low traction side unloads, the cut is very easy, I can deffinitely feel the difference. But like I stated earlier, I agree, and I have seen, that a single line set up is very affective. I think using a hand lever to control the brake pressure is also a great feature, it would be nice though if it had a locking mechanism, so that it didnt have to be held manualy throughout the manuever.

[i]The only T-case's I think you can do this to are early twin stick Model 18's, twin stick Dana 300's, and an Atlas.

Whew I hope this helps [/B]

18's don't work, Dana 20's do. So do NP205's