Little Sluice Bypass

[Jeepndel]

We are heavily into plans to *officialize* and build a bypass around Little Sluice. FOTR and the Rubicon Oversight Committee (ROC) are cooperating with the Pirates in a joint effort to make this happen (hopefully early June).

I've made a commitment to the bureaucracies that govern our trail, that we will make sure the ROC is involved in or informed of everything we do. That way I always have their support (and not their road blocks).

So the Pirates, Jeepers Jamboree and FOTR have been working out the details. This is a good thing. The POR folks will lead the charge with FOTR and POR web site folks doing the work. In reality, we're all FOTR members -- that's the beauty of FOTR. It don't matter ONE HOOT who leads the charge or starts the ball rolling, we're all friends of the trail and doing our part to keep it open.

More info will be posted here and elsewhere on the POR and FOTR sites.

Thanks, Del

[Rubicrawler]

Sounds great! Let us know as soon as a date is chosen.

Standing by with shovel in hand;)

[Aggro]

Originally posted by Rubicrawler
Sounds great! Let us know as soon as a date is chosen.

Standing by with shovel in hand;)

And straps, chains, prybars, winches too! The more notice I get the better the odds I get to help.

[Tintop]

what kind bypass are is being planned?

[Jeepndel]

It's all very tentative, but plans are being worked out to go around the Sluice where many of us travel now.
The POR folks will lead the charge, with the rest of us in support.
More soon,
Del

[TIE1ON]

I'm a little confused. There is a bypass off to the left of the Little Sluice already. Through the two trees, drops down then goes across the slabs and meets the trail to follow through to Buck Island, or right to head towards Spider. Or the gnarly drop down spot that hits the end of the Box or Toyota Hill. That's three bypasses already in place. Are you planning on doing one right on the trail through the Box itself? :confused:

[CrazyHorse]

Originally posted by TIE1ON
I'm a little confused. There is a bypass off to the left of the Little Sluice already. Through the two trees, drops down then goes across the slabs and meets the trail to follow through to Buck Island, or right to head towards Spider. Or the gnarly drop down spot that hits the end of the Box or Toyota Hill. That's three bypasses already in place. Are you planning on doing one right on the trail through the Box itself? :confused:

I'd guess the plan is to make the one that goes up on the ridge (left side going towards spider) more passable, as there have been several rolls there recently, and by making it easier for rigs that aren't equipped for the box we will be able to keep the box as a playground...

Keep us informed Del, and I'll be there with whatever is needed, and will bring manpower with me...

[Brandon]

I'm confused too - been the left way completely stock, and the jambo takes the middle route

[Jeepndel]

We have not finalized the plan yet. Stand by. More details soon.
We're going to go out on the ground, with the property owners and county (along with the ROC) to see what the options are and what the best route will be. Our POR friends will finalize the details after we get some prelimary work done.

We'll post the details here and on the FOTR list.
thanks, Del

[TIE1ON]

For some reason this topic reminds me of the photo op at TDS this year. But I suppose if there's a demand...well, what can I say, I guess I support what the partnership is working towards and of course, I'll continue to do my part to keep the trail open. ;)

[Keith Strong]

So does this mean we can continue to make the box harder :evil:

Let us know when Del and I will try and get RPS involved to help.

[Tom Boyd]

Originally posted by TIE1ON
I'm a little confused. There is a bypass off to the left of the Little Sluice already. Through the two trees, drops down then goes across the slabs and meets the trail to follow through to Buck Island, or right to head towards Spider. Or the gnarly drop down spot that hits the end of the Box or Toyota Hill. That's three bypasses already in place. Are you planning on doing one right on the trail through the Box itself? :confused:

I would like to hear more about the proposed changes as well. I had the same thought as quoted above. I guess I don't understand how this helps keep the trail open :confused:

Originally poster by Jeepndel

[B]We are heavily into plans to *officialize* and build a bypass around Little Sluice. FOTR and the Rubicon Oversight Committee (ROC) are cooperating with the Pirates in a joint effort to make this happen (hopefully early June).

I've made a commitment to the bureaucracies that govern our trail, that we will make sure the ROC is involved in or informed of everything we do. That way I always have their support (and not their road blocks).

So the Pirates, Jeepers Jamboree and FOTR have been working out the details. This is a good thing. The POR folks will lead the charge with FOTR and POR web site folks doing the work. In reality, we're all FOTR members -- that's the beauty of FOTR. It don't matter ONE HOOT who leads the charge or starts the ball rolling, we're all friends of the trail and doing our part to keep it open.[B]

Why is this a good thing? Why are these groups getting behind it? I guess I understand the jeepers jamboree thing. j/k :flipoff2:

I don't mean to have a negative tone, I love this place and I want to know how this action affects it. Wouln't more man made changes give more ammo to the anti-wheelers who see any more permenant changes as a larger footprint to blame on us?

Thanks

[Rubicrawler]

Tom- as it sits now, there are at least 3 bypasses around Little Sluice. One up to the right, one up to the left, directly above the box and one way to the left, through the trees. The intent of this project, as I understand it, it to create (1) official bypass. The one being considered is the one to the left, above the box. As is sit's right now, this bypass needs a lot of work to make it a reasonable bypass. Too many reported roll overs, etc.

The idea is to keep the number of bypasses to a minumum.

If you're interested in this project (and others on the 'Con) and haven't already done so, I would encourage you to sign up with FOTR at www.friendsoftherubicon.com. You'll get all the updates as they become available and you can get involved with the planning of these projects.

[TIE1ON]

Excellent location IMO, glad you're not planning on creating a new bypass. That spot is a really tough one - sometimes I think its more challenging than the box, especially going up it!! That spot has claimed MANY parts, specifically a steering arm at 2 in the morning :mad: That was a loooong night!! :laughing:

[Tom Boyd]

Originally posted by Rubicrawler
Tom- as it sits now, there are at least 3 bypasses around Little Sluice. One up to the right, one up to the left, directly above the box and one way to the left, through the trees. The intent of this project, as I understand it, it to create (1) official bypass. The one being considered is the one to the left, above the box. As is sit's right now, this bypass needs a lot of work to make it a reasonable bypass. Too many reported roll overs, etc.

The idea is to keep the number of bypasses to a minumum.

If you're interested in this project (and others on the 'Con) and haven't already done so, I would encourage you to sign up with FOTR at www.friendsoftherubicon.com. You'll get all the updates as they become available and you can get involved with the planning of these projects.

Thanks for the clarification. :) I clicked the link, and it says coming soon. I will check back later.

Tom

[kangaroo jack]

One simple solution would be to remove the rocks from the Little Sluice that the Pirates of the Rubicon, over the years, have vandalized the box with. It seems kinda strange to ask a group who created the problem to be involved in a solution:confused:

[66CJdean]

Originally posted by kangaroo jack
One simple solution would be to remove the rocks from the Little Sluice that the Pirates of the Rubicon, over the years, have vandalized the box with. It seems kinda strange to ask a group who created the problem to be involved in a solution:confused:

An excellent example of the quote
"Just because you are entitled to an opinion doesn't mean you are qualified to have it"

You don't know what the hell you are talking about. Name the people who did that.

[kangaroo jack]

The very first instance of vandalizm came on fathers day 1993 by none other than former Pirate presidents Ron Kirby and Kevin Kelly. How do I know this??? I was there and saw it first hand and they have both admitted to it.
On another occasion Pirate Gary Smith and accomplice vandalized the box with a rather LARGE bolder and later confessed to the deed. :flipoff2:

[TIE1ON]

Originally posted by kangaroo jack
One simple solution would be to remove the rocks from the Little Sluice that the Pirates of the Rubicon, over the years, have vandalized the box with. It seems kinda strange to ask a group who created the problem to be involved in a solution:confused:


Uhhhhhh, sounds to me that you're just pissed that you can't wheel through there :rolleyes: If you can't wheel the Box then take one of the THREE bypasses :flipoff:

[Rubicrawler]

Jack- This thread is about working on the trail to help preserve it for years to come. So far, you have yet to contribute anything positive in any of your posts. You're entitled to your opinion as to who did what but that doesn't make you right. IIRC, the people you have accused of vandalism aren't even on this bb so they can't defend themselves.

I hope you'll see the benefit of our work and enjoy the trail for years to come;)

Happy trails!

[randii]

Jack... I don't care who did it, unless you can make charges stick. Sounds like you failed to come forward as a witness back then, and feel bad you missed the opportunity to do anything.

Get over it.

I am working with the Friends of the Rubicon to help manage the trail moving forward... you can join us. What's done is done, are you with us moving forward? We sure could use your help on the work projects we are planning for this year....

Randii

[Lance]

Vince, you've been kicked out of the club, for reasons I won't mention on this bulletin board (unless you'd like me to?). Kevin Kelly was indeed responsible for the first boulder dropped into the sluice in 1993. He wasn't in our club then (our club didn't exist then) and like you, he was kicked out of the club. As far as Gary dropping a rock into the box, I have no knowledge of this, and I doubt it's true.

This forum and thread is about positive progress of the Rubicon and Little Sluice. Your bitterness against our club and forum does nothing to help keep the trail open.

[B2Krawler]

I live off Mckinney Rubicon drive and see the trail often on a daily basis. Ive been traveling the rubicon for over 30 years, I do not know how many of you remember what it used to look like, but it was a mess, there was crap all over that trail, there must have been 500 old street signs on the trail, dead vehicles, not to mention all of the garbage left by careless wheelers, torn up wetlands, and trails where there should not have been. I dont see that anymore, there is a more responsible element on the trail. It is everyones responsibility who uses the trail to help keep it open, whether it is on your own such as myself or part of a club, but when is it enough, now we want to start fixing up the bypasses around the box, I already see stock vehicles using that route. If anything we should eliminate the excessive number of bypasses, they were not there 20 years ago, when the trail was harder, the vehicles were smaller and so were the crowds. The trail is in jeprody because of the number of people who use it. You would never see a stock 2002 4-Runner in there, but you do now. Why because we made it easy with bypasses and boulder rolling. Its only my opinion, pack it in=pack it out, if you see garbage pick it up, if you cant get around the obstacles, then you probably shouldn't be there.

[Roksamy]

comeawn!:bounce2:

[mtnbronco]

I agree with Krawler.... I see alot of vehicles in there, that would have not been in there back in the 80s and early 90s. the trail is easier now. I remember all the wrecked scouts and jeeps left behind to become targets for part theft and rifle targets. Those are gone thats great! things look cleaner no more pay phones and signs on the sluice. But now the traffic has increased becuase the trail is being used by slightly mod vehichles. Nothing wrong with those that have yjs and tjs with minor mods but it does make the trail more accessable to more people now by being easier with the bypasses. But lets keep the little sluice bypass to a minor detour. Because eventually the feds could close the little sluice based on the traffice flow around it... I remember older parts of the trail that are now retricted from access... becuase of the by passes becoming more widely used. just my 2c

[Lance]

I think most of the old timers would disagree that the trail is easier than it used to be. I think a leap in technology and the growth in the sport is why you're seeing more people on the trail. JMO.

[smurfsdad]

I'm not really an old timer but have been going there for 40 years now and when i bought my new 78 Landcruiser i took it through there completely stock right down to the f78 tires quite easily, so i agree with lance it isnt easier now. I now go through the con in my bronco easily but i have lockers and 33's of which i didnt have on the cruiser.

[twn44s]

Originally posted by Lance
I think most of the old timers would disagree that the trail is easier than it used to be. I think a leap in technology and the growth in the sport is why you're seeing more people on the trail. JMO.

I agree with you Lance you nailed it rite on the head.

I remember my first CJ the biggest mod on it was Tru-Tracts and hand arched leaf springs.

[Brandon]

how long has the jeep jamboree been running STOCK rigs through? I agree 100% it is tougher now but it isn't about how tough it is just that it is (still there!). I hope they put the biggest rock pile in northern california at Prarie city so people can enjoy the rubicon for what it is and quit bitchin about how tough it is/isn't

Let us know if we can help any..

[Jeepndel]

BYPASSES, NEWER RIGS, AND TRAIL INFO:

First, if this trail is your thing, you should sign up for the Friends of the Rubicon information distribution list:
www.delalbright.com/rubicon.htm (click on sign up for list).
My POR friends made the moderator here, but I'm not the best moderator as I travel a lot (saving trails around the country).

Next, realize that the bypass issue has many sides to this story.
We're walking a delicate fence line here. FOTR and POR are doing everything they (we) can to keep from loosing any of our access and fun on that trail. You've got to help us out. We're going to build one bypass around the Little Sluice, and it will be officialized (and safe). So the Sluice box itself will stay the way it is. We can all get thru that way.

Further, there will be a public meeting WED. APRIL 30TH, 7PM, Placerville Town hall. (549 Main Street)
COME TO THE MEETING. EXPRESS YOUR OPINIONS.
thanks, Del

[cruzila]

Well, I agree with Lance too. The trail is harder in spots. In others it is easier than say 10 years ago. It changes every year, every month and every day on some level. Last Thanksgiving there was a big change above Walker Hill.

The technology available to 4WD vehicles has changed dramatically in the last 6-10 years. Now every one can afford a locker front and rear. Bigger tires are cheaper due to increased production. Just those two things can get a rig further with more ease. Those IMHO are GOOD things. Unless put in the hands of a bad driver, they mean less trail damage.

To the bypasses, I like the longer bypass. It has a nice view at the top. All rock and nothing to hurt up there. Why not just designate it and not reinvent the wheel here. The short bypass (Toyots hill etc.) could also be designated.

I also like the Little Sluice, but I would not go through it every time. There are some who live to go to the sluice and just play there, Me, I go to enjoy the outdoors and the challenge of the Rubicon. Just the length of it is a challenge in itself. Nowadays my rig is very well set up. (Landcruiser) I enjoy helping others to go with the group and watching them learn about rock wheeling. I still learn new things.

Happy Trails, Scott

Ps I will be at that meeting!!

[Tom Boyd]

I signed up for the email newsletter on your site Del, thanks for the email. ;)
I would like to help with the labor the weekend of June 7 near Little Sluice if I don't have a work related conflict.

[rockmup]

I will be there June 7th. Is there someone I should talk to befor going?

[B2Krawler]

I guess I am afraid of change, remember when one of the hardest parts was right before you got to Tahoe, just past Miller Lake. It was the most difficult part of the trail between the Springs and Tahoe, The USFS thought it would be a good idea in the 80s to fix this stretch of the road so 2WD could make it to Miller Lake, Richardson, Rubicon Lookout, and Blackwood Canyon. The next week I saw VW bug at Miller Lake. It provided access to folks who would never dream of going up a trail like that, Not the kind of folks you want on a 4x4 trail: Sierra Club, TRPA, and all the other groups that hate us. And if you dont think they hate us, think again, Im surrounded by them, They have eliminated 90% of the off road trails around Lake Tahoe, and their biggest goal is Closing the Rubicon, and they wont stop until they succeed. I am involved with a local motorcycle club and a small 4x4 club, and go to many of the local meetings debating this issue. Guess what their biggest argument is? They say that the number of people using the OHV trails has grown so large that it is necessary to close these trails to protect the watershed, erosion, and air quality. Although there are many reasons for thier point of view, many which dont make sence, this was never even a problem when the number of people was much less. I think we can all agree that the number of people using this trail has grown, (maybe too much) I cant help but think that many of these people would not be there at all if the trail was extremly difficult, (ITS THE RUBICON!!!) thus reducing the numbers. Oh by the way next time you exit the rubicon onto miller lake road, look to your right, on a tree you will see a silver reflector on a tree, on the other side of the road there is an optical countern a tree. It counts every vehicle that enters or exits this trail. This counter is a joint effort by the USFS and the Sierra club. Every trail that I have noticed that has this camera in the Tahoe area is now closed. If we want to impress the fact that we as a 4x4 community do care about the environment and the public land we use, it would be that we take the trail back to its orginal path (little sluice and all the other tough areas) and if necessary make these areas the way they used to be, which is still tough. We cant build a trail to suite todays rigs, if you want to see what your bad ass rock crawler can do, then find a harder trail, there out there. I generally dont do the little sluice because i dont want to walk home. My rig is perfectly capable, but somehow so was my fathers stock M38A1 30 years ago, when the bypasses didnt exsist and only 200 vehicles did the Rubicon a year. The trail will always be tougher some years, but that doesnt mean its okay to go around the tough areas. Its tough in this day when the tree huggers out number us, and the whole world knows about this trail, times have changed, and so have the outdoor attitudes, so lets change it back to the way it used to be, because making it easier means more people, more people means more tree huggers, and i think we know what more tree huggers means. Just my opinon, I will always do what i can for this trail, want my kids to enjoy it too. We may think differently, but we all want the same thing: to keep it open, Im glad to hear your points a view and i am on your side.

Del, Im joining your news letter, thanks

B2Krawler
Shawn Heywood
Lake Tahoe, CA.

[jbcruiser]

What up Shawn?
I understand your frustration. We both grew up in Tahoe and look how different it is now. The fact is, making you go through Little Sluice is not going to keep people off the Rubicon...it will just make Little Sluice easier.
I have an idea, however I know I will be shot for what I am going to say on this board...oh well here goes.
Make people pay to use the Rubicon. $10 or $20 a vehicle. I know the issue would be who gets the money. Considering there is a couple different pieces of land through the Rubicon.
I would like to see it go to an organization set up to save the Rubicon, such as FOTR. This money would not only be used to maintain the trail, but to fight the over zealous tree huggers.
The fact is people can donate to FOTR, but they won't. Not because they are bad people, they just never get around to it.
I know this to be fact, because of the program I run. People always say they will come and volunteer for me. However, every year i have the same volunteers on 10 trips every summer. And my program is directly helping keep trails open.
Some day in the future, the only way to cut down on the number of people who use the Rubicon, will be to make it required to have a permit. This would suck...i agree. It would,however limit the number of people who use the trail.
I hate to see it come to this, however i would rather be limited than to not use it all.
Everyone thinks seems to be in denial of what these greenies will do.They have dedicated thier lives to fighting us.
Shawn and i used to ride our dirt bikes all around Tahoe. Not any more!

Jason Berger

[TIE1ON]

Props to B2Krawler for telling it like it is!! I've only been in this sport for 10 years and the advances and number of people now involved in it are so huge compared to what they used to be :( On one hand its good to see friends going out and making some money doing what they love, fabricating and building rock rigs, but on the other hand the sport is attracting much more attention than ever before. When I think of making the Rubicon more "passable" I instantly think of Bassi Falls. That was such a great trail, beautiful falls, good camping but not difficult enough wheeling. And because any stock rig could go in there and get their tires muddy, you had all kinds of people in there shooting their guns off, getting piss drunk and wheeling and dumping their garbage all over that trail. Now its shut down and I believe one of the main reasons was because it was so accessible to a majority of people. One of my favorite obstacles on the Rubicon is the gatekeeper on the Loon side and the reason I love it is because it keeps those rigs out who aren't mechanically capable of wheeling that trail. Its a good indicator of what's to come and that spot deserves some respect for what it's done for the trail. Its kept a lot of people off that trail who shouldn't have been there in the first place. I don't know, its tough, I'd hate to see such a beautiful trail taken away because it was taken advantage of. I don't think any additional bypasses should be built for the Sluice, the existing ones altered that's fine but how about we alter the Gatekeeper just a bit too, just to remind those who shouldn't be there in the first place. If you have enough passion for wheeling, enough to invest in a capable rig, then you also have a vested interest in the areas you wheel in and in keeping thsoe areas available. After all, what's a built rig if you can't even wheel it :(

[RCKRATZ]

Speaking of the good old days....whatever happened to the guy that used to patrol the trail on horseback?

[Brandon]

and motorcycle..

[Jeepndel]

Little Sluice Bypass:
the current project to build a bypass around the L. Sluice will be blessed by the feds (and the landowners and the county), through the Rubicon Oversight Committee (ROC) that I sit on for us. So we should not have it closed or modified the future. We're tying to do this right.
check out:
www.delalbright.com/rubicon_roc.htm
for more on the ROC.
thanks, Del

[SnowScoutII]

Oh man I really likeed it when people took the right side and got teh pucker factor on their faces. :eek: Mabey that guy in that littel sammi thing will roll over again this year that was Hella funny

[Tom Boyd]

When we talk about the greenies who have dedicated their lives to closing trails, which groups have made, or are making the greatest effort to close the Rubicon, or trails in general?
I know about the Sierra Club and I have read up on their agenda :rolleyes:

The Tahoe Regional Planning Association (TRPA) is the board that dictates building and other issues affecting the Basin.

Who has the most funding? Where does it come from?

I'll do some more research and come back.

[jbcruiser]

Originally posted by Tom Boyd
When we talk about the greenies who have dedicated their lives to closing trails, which groups have made, or are making the greatest effort to close the Rubicon, or trails in general?
I know about the Sierra Club and I have read up on their agenda :rolleyes:

The Tahoe Regional Planning Association (TRPA) is the board that dictates building and other issues affecting the Basin.

Who has the most funding? Where does it come from?

I'll do some more research and come back.

The lawsuit filed last year to widen the Desolation Wilderness is still in litigation as we speak. It would have encompassed Rubicon and Hell Hole. However, for now, it looks good for us (from what i hear form one of the attorneys on the suit). i think there were around 7 different groups that were named in the suit.
i don't think most people realize how close Rubicon is to Desolation. Swim across Buck Island and you are now in Desolation. Hell, spit out of your vehicle on Barrett and it will land in Desolation.

[Jeepndel]

Rubicon (Eldorado) lawsuit:

In the lawsuit against the Eldorado National Forest, the main thrust is to get the USFS to complete their planning process -- or close all OHV trails in the meantime. Rock Creek is the main target; but yes, our trail would be included, as well as Hell Hole and others.

BlueRibbon Coalition (the folks who back me), Cal4wheel, Friends of the Rubicon (FOTR), and the Calif. Enduro Riders Assoc. all filed as intervenors (to keep the trail open and to have a say against the folks who filed the suit.

Del
read more about the lawsuit on Cal4wheel's web site:
www.cal4wheel.com

[tunaman]

i'm only 20 years old. the first trip i've had to the con was memorial weekend last year. i went with some guys i met who guided me on making my truck trail worthy, and they had trail experience. when i witnessed how many people were there i was like "holy shit." i saw some of the craziest rigs that weekend also. in one year i have grown a lot. i work on cars for a living now, i've learned a lot what i need on my rig and how to build it, and getting familiar with rock crawling in general. my truck barely made it through the gatekeeper. 83 toy with welded diff, 2" body lift, and 33's. i had no idea what to expect, and for me as a driver and the ability of the truck then. that was hard. i was burning the clutch and i had my experienced friend doing a good job of spotting me. that one obstacle made an impression on me. i'm sure that it keeps a lot of idiots out of there. for that i'm glad, cause i respect the trail and the environment in which it is in. in my negative opinion, the rubicon and other trails(especially in calif.) will be shut down in the near future. i don't want that, but the political agenda of the liberals in this country is coming down like an avalanche. it'll be hard to talk sense into people like that. and the mere fact that there are a ton more people every year on all 4x4 trails, that makes us get noticed, i was another addition to that number. just for example, there are many tree huggers deathly opposed to mountain biking. what do they think of a beat up truck with huge tires and a gasoline engine with driver and passenger drinking smashing through the prestene sierras. don't get me wrong, we should fight as hard as we can for these trails, but the man is going to get us. the man is already after us. on another note, i can see making the gatekeeper a bit harder would be a good thing.

[Jeepndel]

The feds won't (can't) close the Little Sluice as it is part of the original county road (albeit unmaintained). :)
A legitimized bypass won't hurt us a bit as far as keeping the whole trail open. In fact, many think it will make access more secure.
Del