I have acquired a pair of axles d44 front and d60 rear off of a 3/4 ton J20. I am putting them under my "5" full width, SOA with YJ springs. What would be the tallest tire size that I could use for optimal performance. Trimming is not a concern since the sawzall is always handy. I was thinking of 37x13x16 boggers. What do you guys think? Any other pointers or considerations will be appreciated as well. Thanks!

if trimming the fenders is not a concern, i suppose you could put whatever size tires you want on there. 38.5s are as big as i would go with the 44 up front though.

What year a J20? Some years had an offset rear diff. I run 2.5" springs and 38.5 sx's,, I can rub them pretty good with no triming.

It is a 74 model. I think it is offset 6" in the rear. Won't the CV shaft in the rear take care of any problems I may have? That's what I have been told anyways.

Originally posted by rockcrawler23
It is a 74 model. I think it is offset 6" in the rear. Won't the CV shaft in the rear take care of any problems I may have? That's what I have been told anyways.

Measure the offset, I believe the tubes are 6" different in length, which leads to an 8" offset at the pinion.

On a SOA CJ5? I'd be very concerned. Could go with a D18...

Bryan

Originally posted by Oxjockey
On a SOA CJ5? I'd be very concerned. Could go with a D18..

I'll second that. A D18 will bolt right up if you have a D20. Just make sure you get a big hole & you might need the bull gear to go with it. Bonus is a lower low range.

What what I need to do to match the two up. I am not to familiar with the process. By the way, thanks for all the info!

I just sold the pair of 79 J-20's I had, with a CV I wouldn't worry about the angle from the rear but I would worry about the driveshaft length. I think you'll need to stretch that baby in the rear anyway or it's still flop over city for you. (5's are just TOO short) These are good axles and very tough, but think about it this isn't going to drive worth a chit on the road anyway with 38's + tires.

What would be the best and easiest way to stretch the frame in the rear? I was also thinking about cutting down my J20 frame and putting my CJ5 tub on it. Anyone have any comments on this kind of swap?

Originally posted by rockcrawler23
I have acquired a pair of axles d44 front and d60 rear off of a 3/4 ton J20. I am putting them under my "5" full width, SOA

Hey rockcrawler, just wondering if you got those under your 5. I just got the same setup from a '77 J20 to go under my '76 CJ5. Just wondering how it turned out and what you had to do about the drive shaft.

On related note, I also have the leaf springs from the J20. They are in good shape and are much flatter, wider and longer than the 2.5" lift springs I had on there. I'm considering using these, which would require me adding about foot to the rear of the frame and about 4" to the front (those are rough estimates I got from just holding them in place while thinking about it). I've been doing allot of research on here and have found waggy springs to be a popular swap for fullwidth SOA CJs. Would anybody know the size difference between the J20 springs and the waggy springs? Any advice or info as to if using them would be a good idea or a bad idea is appreciated.

Regards,
Austin

Originally posted by CJ-Jeeper


I'll second that. A D18 will bolt right up if you have a D20. Just make sure you get a big hole & you might need the bull gear to go with it. Bonus is a lower low range.


If you get the D18 and have a godo D20 case, use it with the D18 guts. The D20 case is stronger; helpful with greater loading. You get the pass side drop, and 2.47:1. Also, when you do the swap, replace the intermediate shaft with a Novak or AA unit, as those are notorious noisemakers.

eDaddi,
I haven't got the axles under there yet. I am in the process of rebuilding them right now (gears, brakes, etc.). It shouldn't be much longer though, maybe a month. I'll keep ya posted!

The waggy springs are the same as the J-20 springs, (front anyways.) I tried them first, but bent them the first trip out. Remember that they are 25 years old.

Why not find a center pumpkin rear end like a 14 bolt?

edit: my front end is a 78" J-20 with 38.5's and I run jc whitney waggy fronts all the way around.

Originally posted by Bigburlyclothedguy
The waggy springs are the same as the J-20 springs, (front anyways.) I tried them first, but bent them the first trip out. Remember that they are 25 years old.

Good point, they just look damn good. You bent them!? wow, they are some of the beefiest springs I've ever seen, but I am a newbie. :rolleyes: On these there are only three leafs in each pack, but one leaf on those are as thick as two leafs, maybe bit more, on the lift pack I took off. Are the waggy fronts the same build?

Why not find a center pumpkin rear end like a 14 bolt?

I got this combo and they are in such good shape I'm gonna throw them in and see what happens, all I have to do to them is replace one seal, other than that they are in superb condition end to end.

The popular waggy springs that I am familiar with are the 7-leaf Waggy fronts. I have those units front and rear. I understand they are very flexy and hold up well.

Just FYI-

The J20 springs wont work in a CJ5 because bottom of the front spring sits 2" higher than the rear, which...if you are looking for that funny car look... :D

The j-20 fronts that I took of the 78' were 5 leaf packs just like stock waggy springs not 3 leaf units. If they are that thick, I cant imagine that they would flex much.

I've got a quick question......

Like I said in this topic awhile back, I have a D44/D60 combo from a '77 J20. Thay are in really good condition, so I never took them appart.

I'm at work now, and I called to order some new 8 lugs for them, does anybody know if the front D44 disks are a single piston or a double piston?

Single piston.

Originally posted by CSP
Single piston.

I appreciate it, I was able to get them ordered early enough for them to ship today.

Does anyone know a good place to get axle shafts? I need the inner and outer on the 44 front (drivers side). Any help would be appreciated.

Are you looking for stock Spicers or wanting to upgrade? I'd say 37's are near the limit for stock shafts & joints

Stock are fine. I am just having a hard time finding anything.

Originally posted by Oxjockey
On a SOA CJ5? I'd be very concerned. Could go with a D18...

Bryan

I'm a newbie, can you explain what thats going to do to help? I'm guessing the rear output shaft is further to the pass side to help with the offset? :confused:

Hey rockcrawler,
sounds like we are in the same spot on our installs, both ready for drive shafts. I'm a big fan of the skinny pedal, so I'd like to get something beefy. I called Tom Woods shop and told them what I have, and they really had no suggestions. They said with the combined steep angle, wheelbase and offset, they would typically stick on a multiple double cardan shaft, but they don't make adapters for the D60 to accept that.

So now I'm left wondering what to do as far as driveshafts. :rolleyes:

Just got the new rims, the jeep looks pretty sweet with the fullwidth and SOA. :D

Originally posted by eDaddi


I'm a newbie, can you explain what thats going to do to help? I'm guessing the rear output shaft is further to the pass side to help with the offset? :confused:

Hey rockcrawler,
sounds like we are in the same spot on our installs, both ready for drive shafts. I'm a big fan of the skinny pedal, so I'd like to get something beefy. I called Tom Woods shop and told them what I have, and they really had no suggestions. They said with the combined steep angle, wheelbase and offset, they would typically stick on a multiple double cardan shaft, but they don't make adapters for the D60 to accept that.

So now I'm left wondering what to do as far as driveshafts. :rolleyes:

Just got the new rims, the jeep looks pretty sweet with the fullwidth and SOA. :D

I am moving my rear axle back 16" by adding on to the frame, so I am hoping that will compensate enough to allow me to find a driveshaft. By the way, what kind/size tires did you get?

Originally posted by eDaddi


I'm a newbie, can you explain what thats going to do to help? I'm guessing the rear output shaft is further to the pass side to help with the offset? :confused:

Hey rockcrawler,
sounds like we are in the same spot on our installs, both ready for drive shafts. I'm a big fan of the skinny pedal, so I'd like to get something beefy. I called Tom Woods shop and told them what I have, and they really had no suggestions. They said with the combined steep angle, wheelbase and offset, they would typically stick on a multiple double cardan shaft, but they don't make adapters for the D60 to accept that.

So now I'm left wondering what to do as far as driveshafts. :rolleyes:

Just got the new rims, the jeep looks pretty sweet with the fullwidth and SOA. :D

I am not sure if this is the question you need answered, but the D20 has the output shaft for the rear in the middle (inline with the tranny), whereas the D18 has it coming out of the passeneger side, the same line as the front (for both D20 & D18). I think what OxJockey was suggesting is getting the passenger offset output shaft to reduce driveline angle.

D20 is a stronger case, the D18 guts swap into the D20 case, giving you a greater gear ratio (2.47:1 versus 2-something for the D20) with the stronger case. The Dana 300 is stronger still, but the D20 case should be just fine.

Good luck

Originally posted by rockcrawler23


I am moving my rear axle back 16" by adding on to the frame, so I am hoping that will compensate enough to allow me to find a driveshaft. By the way, what kind/size tires did you get?

I would think that stretching it sould help allot, like I said one of biggest problems I've run into as far as getting a rear driveshaft is it being such a short wheelbase.
I'm going to be using the 35" TSLs I had before till I can afford to go larger. The new 8lug wheels I ordered came in last week, got them mounted yesterday and put on. Looks sweet. I'll try and get some pics tonight.

Originally posted by Geesh


I am not sure if this is the question you need answered, but the D20 has the output shaft for the rear in the middle (inline with the tranny), whereas the D18 has it coming out of the passeneger side, the same line as the front (for both D20 & D18). I think what OxJockey was suggesting is getting the passenger offset output shaft to reduce driveline angle.

D20 is a stronger case, the D18 guts swap into the D20 case, giving you a greater gear ratio (2.47:1 versus 2-something for the D20) with the stronger case. The Dana 300 is stronger still, but the D20 case should be just fine.

Good luck

That is what I needed answered, thanks. It also brings up another question, are you suggesting that if take a D18s guts and put them in my D20, it will be a pass side output? I don't understand how the case would allow that. Or was that just extra tcase info for the newbie? :D

The Dana 18 guts will fit into a Dana 20 case as long as it's a large hole Dana 18. Some Dana 18 owners swap for a Dana 20 case because as Geesh said, it's stronger. You end up with an offset Dana 18 with a new, stronger outer shell.

eDaddi weren't you warned about the offset issue when you first were asking about these axles on JU?

Originally posted by CSP
The Dana 18 guts will fit into a Dana 20 case as long as it's a large hole Dana 18. Some Dana 18 owners swap for a Dana 20 case because as Geesh said, it's stronger. You end up with an offset Dana 18 with a new, stronger outer shell.

So it sounds like I should be on the look out for a D18 to correct the offset. But I'll wait till I hear back from an I sent email to Jess before I do anything. -Thanks


Originally posted by CSP
eDaddi weren't you warned about the offset issue when you first were asking about these axles on JU?

I don't think so, I bought them to quickly :rolleyes:

I bought them from another member here who is running the same set up in his CJ5, I was hoping he'd chime in here as to what he did.

Yea, eDaddi you need both cases (or at least all the guts from the 18 witha good 20 case) to go to pass offset because of the parts involved.

If you look at the D20 case output side of the house you will see two covers, one in the center which currently supports the output shaft, and a plain cover on the passenger side. Bolt pattern on the pass side is same as the output shaft housing on the older D18. Same is true with the 18 'cept the plain cover matches the center output side of the 20.

The D18 guts swap straight across to the 20 case. You wanna get smart about doing this swap before you tear into it. A notorious problem with the D18's is the intermediate shaft. They wear and the shafts shudder like crazy and eventually fail. Novak and AAhave fixes for that. If you do this, most definitely swap intermediate shafts & bearings.

Also get the big hole case and the right size intermediate shaft with the D18 donor. Or at least upgrade to the right size shaft when you swap into the D20.

There is a ton of info on this here on the board. I seem to recall Pottsy was into this, or perhaps I have him mistaken for someone else. Search "D18", "Dana 18" "D18/D20" and various other string combos till you get there. If that still doesn't get you where you need to be, let me know, I have it on archive somewhere.

Good luck -
Geesh

Originally posted by Geesh
Also get the big hole case and the right size intermediate shaft with the D18 donor.


When you say big hole, what are the dimensions on that? I will be doing some searching online so it will be hard for me to do much physical hands on looking. And, do you know the size that I will need the intermediate shaft to be. Thanks for the info.

The big hole is 4" (small is 3.15") & came in years '66 - '71. All 20's are big hole.
The intermediate shafts were 1 1/8" from '46 - '53 & 1 1/4" from '53 - '71. All 20's are 1 1/4".
Most of this is out of the Advance Adapters book & may be on their web site too.
www.advanceadapters.com

After some measuring last night, I'm not so sure that the D18 guts in the D20 will help all that much as far as the driveshaft angle goes. Seems like the driveshaft would have to come out in the center of the D20 for a perfect straight line. Pic (http://www.edaddi.com/jeep/album05/P6240007)

Also thinking the angle won't be to bad, looks like it will be 23" long. Pic (http://www.edaddi.com/jeep/album05/P6240008)


as far as the rest of it goes, holy high! I'm thinking I need bigger tires now. :D Pic (http://www.edaddi.com/jeep/album05/P6240002)

In that first pic the offset only looks like about 3". I think you'll be fine w/ a CV shaft.

Hey rockcrawler23, hows the progress

Everything is going good so far. I have everything done almost. I lengthened the frame 16 inches so that puts me about 100". Now I am just waiting to get the money together for the tires and wheels. I am also waiting on the the fuel cell which is supposed to be on the way. As soon as everything gets put together I will follow up and let everybody know.