If you look close, You can see the winch cable that goes from the door piller up to the left. It goes to Matt's yellow Jeep (RedNeck Ram). It kept me from major body damage. That is Watson (Offroad Design) telling me to turn up.

http://myweb.cableone.net/mattsanders3/Moab2003/UpperHell/Sluiceway.jpg

This is the start of the third obsticle. Thats Tobey riding with me.
http://myweb.cableone.net/mattsanders3/Moab2003/UpperHell/rock1.jpg

Going over the second rock in the third obsticle. There was one point where the whole vehicle was sitting on the transfer case!
http://myweb.cableone.net/mattsanders3/Moab2003/UpperHell/rock2.jpg
http://myweb.cableone.net/mattsanders3/Moab2003/UpperHell/rock3.jpg
http://myweb.cableone.net/mattsanders3/Moab2003/UpperHell/rock4.jpg

That second rock is a real pain. Above is Matt (RedNeck Ram) standing in the tire.

http://myweb.cableone.net/mattsanders3/Moab2003/UpperHell/RockFinal.jpg

And the Final climb out of the waterfall

http://myweb.cableone.net/mattsanders3/Moab2003/UpperHell/WaterFall.jpg

The sliders where bolted to the body mounts and they where shoved up and caused some damage. I recieved some slight quarter panel damage but nothing I cant fix. Dont know if I'll do it again next year.

nice pix....time for me to get my winch hooked up...

Wow.....permawinch. That looks like a killer trail. I've never seen many pics of it. Did you ever get to drive any of that trail, or were you hooked to that cable the whole time? :flipoff2:

That is bada$$! It's nice to see a bigger rig do the trail.

Fun little section of rocks -- amazing that you did it with such little damage, winch or no winch...

Cool pics!

Randii

didn't one of the mags take a built SooperDootie through it last year?

Wow.....permawinch. That looks like a killer trail. I've never seen many pics of it. Did you ever get to drive any of that trail, or were you hooked to that cable the whole time?

Nobody wanted to take pics of me eating lunch or Driving the easy parts. :flipoff2:

I was able to do the entrance without the winch. :D

Originally posted by SandmanII


Nobody wanted to take pics of me eating lunch or Driving the easy parts. :flipoff2:

I was able to do the entrance without the winch. :D


So.......you want a cookie or something?

Peterson's mag took their 46" XML shod F-250 through there...broke some shit, had to stay overnight...But hell, not alot of damage and they made it, I'd like to see it again...

Edit: Nice pics, and is that an S-10 in front of you on a fullsize frame? It looks familiar...I think the owner is from Delaware or maryland? Somewhere up north...

so was everyone perma-tatched to winches or just you? if it was just you'd i'd be pissed having to be behind you all day.

either way.. congrats.. looks like a sick trail. :D

cool little trail...

of course, it's more fun if you're a dumbass that can't drive...

like me:D

http://www.thefrontyard.org/jeeponblocks/helldorado.jpg

Originally posted by 1BADZ71
Peterson's mag took their 46" XML shod F-250 through there...broke some shit, had to stay overnight...But hell, not alot of damage and they made it, I'd like to see it again...

Edit: Nice pics, and is that an S-10 in front of you on a fullsize frame? It looks familiar...I think the owner is from Delaware or maryland? Somewhere up north...

They are from Maryland. Its a Suburban with an S10 body. His Brother has a Fullsize Blazer with an S10 Body. They work really well.

Originally posted by sceep
so was everyone perma-tatched to winches or just you? if it was just you'd i'd be pissed having to be behind you all day.

either way.. congrats.. looks like a sick trail. :D

I was on the line quite a bit. Mostly due to poor gearing. I run a strait 205 with 5.13's with 40's. I really need a dual transfer case setup or just jump for the atlas maybe. I'll do something about it for next year.

I might saw off the rear of the body and move the axle back as well. If I had some tubing back there, I think I could have gotten through the narrow part better.

I guess you dont know untill you give it a shot.

cool.:cool: I like to that you tried it with your k5 and made it relativly unscathed, even though you needed some help I think thats cool.:D

Originally posted by SandmanII [/B]

And the Final climb out of the waterfall

http://myweb.cableone.net/mattsanders3/Moab2003/UpperHell/WaterFall.jpg

[/B]

What kind of pressure are you running in your tires? That front tire has no flex with the force of the cable on it?

Sweet lookin truck, don't scratch it.:D

All I see is x's :confused:

Originally posted by Meyer
All I see is x's :confused:

Me too! Pics seems to have quit working!


Please fix them, I want to see!!

pics workin A-OK here

Originally posted by azk5


What kind of pressure are you running in your tires? That front tire has no flex with the force of the cable on it?

Sweet lookin truck, don't scratch it.:D

I had about 8 in the front and around 5 in the rear. They would flex with good pressure but I dont think the bogger is that great of a rock tire. Next year I'll tryd to get a different set to run. Matt had the new Iroc swampers on and I liked them. Maybe I'll get me a set.

the peterson's f250 broke a dynotrac 60 stub shaft and the stock steering box...wonder if they took the dodge ram charger on 42's on that trail

In the video they make that trail look alot easier than it is....

looks like u had alot of fun and didnt get too much damage. Nice pics

Originally posted by SandmanII


I had about 8 in the front and around 5 in the rear. They would flex with good pressure but I dont think the bogger is that great of a rock tire. Next year I'll tryd to get a different set to run. Matt had the new Iroc swampers on and I liked them. Maybe I'll get me a set.

Sandman did you groove your boggers or are they stock? If not wouldn't grooved boggers flex more than stock ones?

Hey you run the gatecity site right? Did paul (bltclr) make that part of the run too? I saw a lot of his pics but nothing like that! that looks like a tough trail...

Originally posted by 70~K5


Sandman did you groove your boggers or are they stock? If not wouldn't grooved boggers flex more than stock ones?

Grooving them would have helped. I might give it a try.

Originally posted by SLOwag
Hey you run the gatecity site right? Did paul (bltclr) make that part of the run too? I saw a lot of his pics but nothing like that! that looks like a tough trail...

I sure do!

I only hooked up with them for a day and I think they ussually run easier trails. I've got more pics but wont have them up for a while.

Originally posted by Lincolnloc
That is bada$$! It's nice to see a bigger rig do the trail.

:flipoff2:

80-inch wheelbase
235/85/16's

Had fun, but yeah, it's a trail that will make you WORK to get through it.

Nice pics. Looks like something I need to try next time I'm at Moab.

That is pretty phat.

I would love to road trip for a trail like that.

Fuck'em about needing help....people forget that at one time in their hobby they probably had 31's, high gearing, and a doggy motor with no winch...Suck it.:flipoff2:

ENVY ENVY ENVY

I think it's awesome you put that sweet k5 through there, winch cable or not.

These dinks here that are baggin on you are the morons you see on the trail flopping there rig, then acting like they are hardcore because of it. I think it takes alot of common sense to realize when you need to pull the cable, or take a strap.

Sweet Matt, I'll hit that with you once I get my one ton axles and winch... I think the strap makes the trek that much cooler.

Originally posted by SandmanII


I sure do!

I only hooked up with them for a day and I think they ussually run easier trails. I've got more pics but wont have them up for a while.
Ya the easier 3.5 to 4+ trails we're such vaginas :flipoff2: :D

Originally posted by blt2crl
Sweet Matt, I'll hit that with you once I get my one ton axles and winch... I think the strap makes the trek that much cooler.

You guys get winches and lets do it next year! Brant might not even need that his truck is so light. :D

Originally posted by SandmanII


I was on the line quite a bit. Mostly due to poor gearing. I run a strait 205 with 5.13's with 40's. I really need a dual transfer case setup or just jump for the atlas maybe. I'll do something about it for next year.

I might saw off the rear of the body and move the axle back as well. If I had some tubing back there, I think I could have gotten through the narrow part better.

I guess you dont know untill you give it a shot.

ive got 1.9 t-case, 4.11s and 42s, and I dont need no stinkin winch :flipoff2:

clearly you need more motor, step up!

Guess the 454 isn't big enough Matt. Time for the 502. Next year we have to hit the trails Matt. Proving Grounds was a blast.

When I was there in March someone had stuck a K5 logo on the rock next to breakover rock.... so I ass-umed a K5 had been thru there recently.

Why didn't moneypit's pansy ass run that trail after rolling his shit? Pussy.:flipoff2: I tried to find you guys on Sat., but Toby had his cell off and the only person I saw was Dave.

very nice. as a guy with a full size yota, i can appreciate the size issues. i think i am going to need to bob 12" off of my bed though. what does that rig weigh?

Another reminder of why I sold my K5 and bough a jeep :D . Looks like a fun time with big iron.

the trail is only about 1/4 mile long with 3 or 4 obstacles. it can be done quickly if you are motivated....less than an hour.

the trail is only about 1/4 mile long with 3 or 4 obstacles. it can be done quickly if you are motivated....less than an hour.
...ummm.... probably worth stating that it ain't THAT easy.
Bring motivation, driving skills, AND a well-built rig.

At risk of stating the obvious, lacking any one of these three things may cause a day-long diversion. The wild card is traffic -- Even outside of EJS (the busiest week in the year for Moab), one poorly-built or -driven vehicle ahead of you can make this seem like spending a day in line at the DMV office. :p

Randii

Hmmm, Location: Idaho. Gateway 4x4. Gateway city, Pocatello?

Originally posted by spencurai
the trail is only about 1/4 mile long with 3 or 4 obstacles. it can be done quickly if you are motivated....less than an hour.

Yup, last time through we got two rigs through in just under two hours.
But you can get hosed though if something breaks or someone is in front of you...Cool pics though!

Nice pictures but i have one question. Do you consider your self as to have run that trail and completed it? Like as if you were to say to some one yeah I ran that trail.

Reason i ask is it looks like you had to winch the whole thing? Not trying to start anything jsut wondering.

He has been "through" it winch or not. nice job

matt-

very nice. as a guy with a full size yota, i can appreciate the size issues. i think i am going to need to bob 12" off of my bed though. what does that rig weigh?

I've got it down to around 5400. I plan on getting some more off with fiberglass and other options.

Originally posted by Bob Williams
Hmmm, Location: Idaho. Gateway 4x4. Gateway city, Pocatello?

Right on the Money! How did you know that?

Originally posted by FLEXYSAMMY
Nice pictures but i have one question. Do you consider your self as to have run that trail and completed it? Like as if you were to say to some one yeah I ran that trail.

Reason i ask is it looks like you had to winch the whole thing? Not trying to start anything jsut wondering.

I used the winch to get through the narrow part (Keep the body off the rocks), On the part you see to help me turn left and get over the rock, and on the waterfall wich is a given for most people. I think if I could crawl better, that third obsticle might have stayed off the winch. I would start climbing the rock and loose traction causing me to drop back down. I think a 4:1 would have allowed me to crawl and get me where I needed to be to make that turn.

Now I know what I need to do to hit it again with a little more style. I would not have know that without giving it a try.

The first time I went through Pritchet, I had to use the winch 5 times. This year I used it once (Rockpile). I think I'm on a learning curve here.

And yeah, I tell people I did that trail. It'l never be a tube buggy or tricked out Jeep so I will most likely see plenty of winch in my future.

Here's another- winch is a must on this one-- Awesome job gettin a Blazer through there !!!


http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=134600

Originally posted by SandmanII


I used the winch to get through the narrow part (Keep the body off the rocks), On the part you see to help me turn left and get over the rock, and on the waterfall wich is a given for most people.

The second obstacle kills me too, even not caring about body damage, it just leans a full size so hard to the left that the body just gets wedged.

Pete

That second obstacle was no sweat. :D I just leaned the cage into it and drove on through, turned into the wall at the end and set it down on all 4 again... :flipoff2: Now breakover, that was a different story. TH400/205/4.56/42" didn't give me enough gear to get the back right over the rock for the line I tried and that pivoted me into the hole on the right. Thankfully, Stephen's winch saved the day for me. That's the only time I needed a winch on that trail except for the exit. Next time, new doubler, new flexy suspension, and no winch (except for the exit)…

Looking good Sandman!

I got pretty jacked on breakover this year too. After the last trip, my crossmember was finally past the point of no return (the floor is dented ~1" up from the t-case, and I broke a slip yoke from binding it). I didn't have time to make anything decent, and don't plan to run the current case for too much longer, so I picked up a factory crossmember from a mid/late 80's sub at the junkyard after work a day or two before we left, welded it to a couple plates, and bolted it to the frame, after straightening the rails with a big pipe wrench. Basically, the crossmember hangs down worse than before, particularly on the driver's side.

I ditched all the sheet metal on the front end for this trip and just had the beginnings of a tube front end, and my front suspension didn't work for shit. I'm not sure how much of it was due to losing weight (no hood, fenders, core support, smaller radiator, 1 battery, etc), and how much of it was from the extra support on the end of the frame.

Pete

If everything goes remotely smooth, you're right, not a big deal at all. We ran it last thursday night in 2.5 hours. That's starting at Ken's lake, unloading, waiting on inlaws, running the trail and loading back up. Pretty fun. Definitely good stuff.
We pretty much have the full size thing nailed on that trail, it's not bad once you get through the off camber part. That was a lot of the inspiration for my K5's body removal....

I used the winch to get through the narrow part (Keep the body off the rocks), On the part you see to help me turn left and get over the rock, and on the waterfall wich is a given for most people. I think if I could crawl better, that third obsticle might have stayed off the winch. I would start climbing the rock and loose traction causing me to drop back down. I think a 4:1 would have allowed me to crawl and get me where I needed to be to make that turn.

Now I know what I need to do to hit it again with a little more style. I would not have know that without giving it a try.

The first time I went through Pritchet, I had to use the winch 5 times. This year I used it once (Rockpile). I think I'm on a learning curve here.

And yeah, I tell people I did that trail. It'l never be a tube buggy or tricked out Jeep so I will most likely see plenty of winch in my future.

The first time I did this trail it took me about 5 hours, I had to winch the first obstacle(got wedged), the breakover rock(got turned the wrong way), and the waterfall. The last time I ran it it took under two hours and I winched the waterfall, thats it.
Definately a learning curve to it.
Oh and I scraped my exo HARD on the squeeze section the first time, last time I still hit but barely. :)

Sorry to take this off topic, but I vote for loss of weight being your problem on the front. I've got BDS fronts (supposed to be pretty flexy) and my front moves hardly at all. I've got new, longer mix-n-match front packs that fix the typical GM front lift shackle problem, and loosing some leafs, so that should work out better, we'll see, but I gotta get new shafts before I can try it since my pinion is now set for non-cv...

I'm headed to Moab (I hope!) for the Blazer Bash in October.

Upper Helldorado is on my list:)

sweet pics!

Originally posted by Stephen
We pretty much have the full size thing nailed on that trail, it's not bad once you get through the off camber part. That was a lot of the inspiration for my K5's body removal....
Hehe, I still remember your comment that day watching how easy Beck and I went through the squeeze. "Man, I need to build a buggy" (or something like that). I had no idea where that was headed though! :D Love the new look!

Originally posted by D60
When I was there in March someone had stuck a K5 logo on the rock next to breakover rock.... so I ass-umed a K5 had been thru there recently.

I was out there in November and there was a K-5 logo stuck to the rock when I was there. Not sure the name of the obs, but its the one where you come over the large rock and immediately have to turn left between the other two large rocks.

Gnarly trail, I hope some day to try out my sammi in there.

Kevin

Originally posted by FLEXYSAMMY
Nice pictures but i have one question. Do you consider your self as to have run that trail and completed it? Like as if you were to say to some one yeah I ran that trail.

Reason i ask is it looks like you had to winch the whole thing? Not trying to start anything jsut wondering.

I would like too see ya get through Upper Proving Grounds with out a winch.. Winch line or not he did Upper Helldorado.

Originally posted by blt2crl


I would like too see ya get through Upper Proving Grounds with out a winch.. Winch line or not he did Upper Helldorado.



Come and pick me up! :flipoff2:

anyone seen a ZJ go through upper hell yet?

well in June, I plan on doing it--maybe i'll be the first. (or maybe I'll destroy my rig in the process)

Cody

Originally posted by FLEXYSAMMY




Come and pick me up! :flipoff2:
It's a deal :D

Originally posted by MoabZJ
anyone seen a ZJ go through upper hell yet?

well in June, I plan on doing it--maybe i'll be the first. (or maybe I'll destroy my rig in the process)

Cody


That's not a ZJ anymore Cody, it's a buggy with ZJ hood, engine, and floorboard. :D

someone mentioned traffic. If you want to miss all the traffic, run it in the dark! Each year during Cruise Moab they guys from our club do a night run and we hit Lower Helldorado last year. That's a blast at night. None of us had run Upper before so we went to check it out after finishing lower. One of my buddies decided to try it. At the time his FJ40 had a completely stock drivetrain except for f/r lockers and some 33's. Also he had no winch. We had a dude on a strap to help with ballast from time to time. It took some work but he made it through to the breakover rock without too much trouble. At the breakover rock, he got WAY offcamber and stuck and with his nearly empty fuel tank he couldn't get fuel to the carb and no one had extra fuel or a can. At that point it was about 3 am. We left the truck overnight and came back in the morning with fuel and a come-along and got him unstuck and running again. I pulled my truck up at the end of the waterfall and winched him out.

This is the argument to support that a good driver can sometimes compensate for a lesser built rig. Seriously, how many guys do you know have been through upper with stock drivetrain and 33's?!


Upper is definitely a killer trail and if you think its fun in the daytime you should try it at night!!! I'm looking for my pics of the trip. I'll post 'em as soon as I find 'em.

these are the only pics from our night run that turned out. The rest are way too dark or blurry.

nuther one

more

last one

We met some Red Rock guys down there 2 weeks before EJS and they showed us the lines through Upper (didn't stick around to run it). The guy in the blue windbreaker (don't remember his name) said he did upper in a near stock 32" tire jeep. They realy new their stuff, so I am inclined to beleave him.

Prety cool to see retired guys out there wheeling like that! All the old wheelers around here stick to bumpy roads and never hit the hard trails.


http://www.m4x4a.org/ImageGallery/albun02/DSCF0046_010.sized.jpg

http://www.m4x4a.org/ImageGallery/albun02/DSCF0054.thumb.jpg

Of course it is alot easier with 44s :flipoff2:

Heck, Serious One did it with a Landrover Series one on 31" swampers..


:eek:

you're right, and that's pretty damn cool!

I remember when Pritchet was supposed to be a Hell trail and I was nervous about even going near it. Now its just fun and the only thing I dread is the drive out. I think once a trail has been done enough that all of the lines are figured out for the different vehicles, Its just not that hard of a trail. Its a lot of fun to hit a new trail and after that, It sortav looses its luster. I also did Rusty Nail for the first time and that was a good time. I dont know if I'll go out of my way to it again though.

My only problem with Rusy Nail (and some others up there) was the part after "No left turn" where you are off camber looking over the side of a 200 foot drop... :eek: No where near the limit for my junk off camber, but that didn't matter. I don't mind flopping, and I have yet to roll completely but, I'm not particularly concerned about it. But looking over that ledge, thinking, what if my bead unseated at 5-6 psi, or my shackle bolt sheared like Shane did earlier on the same trail, or any one of a thousand other silly little failures, with my 15 year old son in the passenger seat... :eek: <Sigh> I'm getting old and soft...