I know some of you have put your tie-rods and/or drag links on the back of your axles.

I searched the archives, but did not find anything on tie-rods behind the axle, but if this has been discussed before can someone point me to the thread?

Questions:
Does putting it on the back mean the tie-rod has to be LONGER (i.e. the high steer arms will bow outwards) to preserve proper handling (ackerman angle). Or do I just throw it on their with straight high steer arms and not worry about it? I'm assuming that the accerman angle on my Jeep TJ with a 4" narrowed Chevy D60 is not right now, so this could be a chance to fix it? How do I calculate it real world on my Jeep? Or should I just screw it, to get better trail performance (Jeep is mostly for trail use)?

I was thinking of making high steer arms to bolt to my king pin mounts, that go backawards on both sides for the tie rod and forwards for the drag link (it is kind of crowded with the 5 link to put the drag link in the back too).

I am attaching a pic so you can see the current set-up.
Thanks,
Phil

Tie rod will need to be shorter to correct Ackermann, if it's moved to the back.

Basic way-of-figuring where it should be:

Draw two lines, from the steering axes (one on each side) to the middle of the rear axle. The tie rod ends should pivot on a point on those lines. If they're in front, the tie rod should be longer than the steering axis center-to-center width. If they're in back, shorter.

This is an approximation, not a perfect thing, but it's about the closest you'll get to proper Ackermann without it getting obscenely expensive.

So all I got to do is make the high steer arms bend in an appropriate amount? Cool, that sounds pretty easy.

Should be easy to add the ram at the same time too ;)

Thanks for the info.

Phil

Ant(on POR) makes the ones to locate them behind the axle, give him a shout

Probably will have to make my own (no big deal) since my rig has a crowded 5 link system under there.

Plus why buy it when you can build it? Did I accidentally post to JU? :flipoff2::flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Thanks,
Phil

No, you did NOT accidentally post to JU:flipoff2: ANT does make the arms with the correct Ackermann built into it......and the price is right. So why waste your time designing and building two arms when you can buy ones that have already been tested ?

But if you're looking to be stubborn, knock yerself out...

Cause ANT is the man!
he is a SRC guy
But any way most i see are shorter tie rod in the back, and a drag link in the front
also, with heim's and that much angle, how much bump steer do you have now?

Originally posted by welndmn
Cause ANT is the man!
he is a SRC guy
But any way most i see are shorter tie rod in the back, and a drag link in the front
also, with heim's and that much angle, how much bump steer do you have now?

No but I think someone from JU must have designed that link suspension by the look of the angles and length of the trac bar. Right back at ya:flipoff2:

Originally posted by Rock Toy
No, you did NOT accidentally post to JU:flipoff2: ANT does make the arms with the correct Ackermann built into it......and the price is right. So why waste your time designing and building two arms when you can buy ones that have already been tested ?

But if you're looking to be stubborn, knock yerself out... im getting(got) mine from ant, cant wait to install em! jiMMy

What's wrong with the track bar? It is longer than stock, and is exactly the same length as the drag link, and they are perfectly paralell.
Why would I have bump steer with that set-up? I have ZERO bump steer now. Much better than it did with the bolt on RE long arm kit (had minor bump steer then).

So tell me, what is wrong with the trac bar and drag link?

Phil

to me it just looks like your youe heim's are running at max angles

You are correct, but I have misalignent washers on them to allow more travel then you would think from the pics, and I run a track bar, not leaf springs, so there is very little change in that angle on the trail. They have been tested on the ramp ond on hard trails - no binding, no bending.

But, looks like it will all be re-done again soon ;)

BTW - no disrespect was intended about buildign the arms - just joking :D

I may still look into buying his if they are cheap including shipping to central Canada :(

But I find that a lot of the "pre-made" stuff won't work with my combo (TJ five link long arm with 1 ton axles).

Thanks,
Phil

I PM'ed Ant asking what he thinks.
If he thinks his arms would work well for my set-up then maybe I will buy them.

Don't know how all you guys can say his arms are perfect for my Jeep. My Jeep has 64.5" wide axles - that affects ackerman. What did he design them for? Just because we both have D60's with king pins doesn't mean they are "perfect".

I may still buy his, and I do not doubt they are quality - just want to know what makes his a good choice for my Jeep.

Thanks,

Phil

Originally posted by pjensen
I PM'ed Ant asking what he thinks.
If he thinks his arms would work well for my set-up then maybe I will buy them.

Don't know how all you guys can say his arms are perfect for my Jeep. My Jeep has 64.5" wide axles - that affects ackerman. What did he design them for? Just because we both have D60's with king pins doesn't mean they are "perfect".

I may still buy his, and I do not doubt they are quality - just want to know what makes his a good choice for my Jeep.

Thanks,

Phil


Bolt-on-Biotch


:flipoff2: :D :flipoff2:

I ain't no bolt on bitch :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Just trying to learn from those with experience, and ignore those with nothing usefull to say:rolleyes:

Phil

I hope all those that run POR and bag on everyone's new ideas break their ball joints when wheeling at night by themselves in the snow and their significant other gets frostbite and loses three toes and will never walk straight again. What happened to the helpful page that spawns new ideas and helps those with ideas perfect them so they will work better when they actually hit the trail? You can't even put a post on here anymore w/o someone telling you that you are a :rainbow: for not doing it the way they did.
More power to ya pjensen Fawk all the haters that just post put downs to up their post #

Thanks Stonyford.
I know mudlite was just giving me a hard time. He's in my club and does it all the time.
Generally though I like this board, glad to have the info from it.

And I talked to Ant, he said I might as well do it myself if I can...

Phil
Building stuff Myself and learning is part of the fun.

Originally posted by Stonyford
I hope all those that run POR and bag on everyone's new ideas break their ball joints when wheeling at night by themselves in the snow and their significant other gets frostbite and loses three toes and will never walk straight again. What happened to the helpful page that spawns new ideas and helps those with ideas perfect them so they will work better when they actually hit the trail? You can't even put a post on here anymore w/o someone telling you that you are a :rainbow: for not doing it the way they did.
More power to ya pjensen Fawk all the haters that just post put downs to up their post #

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh? if that was directed at me, my comment to me was a personal Joke to Phil. We have lunch together every Friday. The whole reason he builds his truck up , is to try catch me!!!!!!!!!

hahahahahahahhaha

:flipoff2:

The whole reason he builds his truck up , is to try catch me!!!!!!!!!

I can't wait until the spring competitions. Then you can have some challenge. You certainly didn't have any this year while I was building up my Jeep all summer :(

Phil

Yup, these arms aren't rocket science, If you have the capability to make your own, there is no reason you shouldn't. I try an help people that want to make their own, for those that can't, I make em for them.


Ant

I have read about the ackerman angle, may be to many times. Is it that important? I mean I can see if you are building an F-1 car. But for a truck? Not saying that it shouldn't be done, but I'm guessing that Ford didn't worry about it. I have an 86 F-350 SRW and a 90 F350 DRW. They both have the same front rear in them, with the exception of the daully hubs, and the 86 came with 22mm tie rod and the 90 is ASE tie rod. They both handle fine.

When I change things around for my Toy I will get the Ackerman close, why not it only takes a little more time. But should I worry about it?

ackerman on a wheelin truck is likely more important then an F1 car.
ackerman is useful in low speed tight turns. though it would reduce tire scrub and therefore tire temp on the high speed endurance car. the factories build for cost nothing else.

would some one please define 'ackerman angle' for me?
~John

Search for "ackerman angle"

:flipoff2:

Phil