BW T-case problem. Help me diagnosis please

[Way]

Whlie in Moab last week on Rusty Nail trail, my vehicles 4 wheel drive started to act a little strange on me. When on the more extreme obstacle (like the first obstacle on the trail) my front tires would rotate about 4 times faster than the rears. I am fully locked with ARBs laterally, so side to side they spinned the same. However they did NOT front to back.

Questions: Did I break something? Does this problem come up because the automatic locking viscous center unit wears out? Have I not noticed this before with 33" tires as much because the stress was a lot less than my 37" tires now? Could it possibly be something else?

I called and found a shop that sells shift linkage for an LT230 for $175, which seems reasonable. A while back I remember Mike Slade and a few others (based on my search :flipoff2:) were planning this swap on a Range Rover Classic that ORIGINALLY came with a BW unit. Couldn't find a thread with follow up on how the swap went. The shop that has the linkage says that they are not sure the linkage will work with a Range Rover (said it moves the lever too far forward), and only knows that it works on Discos. Any problems you guys with Range Rovers ran into (assuming the swap was completed)??? Probably a good time to move to a LT230 as I have to fabricate a new trac bar as a broke mine in half in Moab also, along with a few other minor things ;)

Guess it is time to have the front driveshaft modified as well.

Way

[redrangie]

no help on the t-case, but are you telling me that your rig made it around that nasty corner right before you hit up with golden spike? You know the seriously nasty off-camber shelf road that looks like it's only wide enough for a cj5 or a zuk?

j

[Jtisdale]

Adam-

Don't you run slightly different ratios front and rear? Doesn't seem like that would make your tires spin 4x as fast but may be contributing to the bias.

Tis

[Way]

Ratios are .01 off, so I don't think that is it.

As far as off camber goes: I lightened up my top heavy problem and now my vehicle is stable in off camber situations. The lock box helped keep the weight more even in the rear (was all on one side). The heavier tires lowered my COG. I cut some metal out of the rack. Built a hi-lift holder for the tire carrier to get it off of the roof. Took rear seats out and now have my second spare mounted inside. My vehicle felt fine and my degree gauge stops at 45 degrees and it was pegged at that. My friends took some regular film pictures, so I will scan in picks in a few days and post.

Way

[redrangie]

i chickened out on it. I didn't think it prudent to try it in the only vehicle that I could take the family back to Denver in.

:eek:

j

[Way]

If you did roll, you would roll to the wall side and not to the cliff side at least. ;)

[Serious One]

Weirdness....

My LT-230 swap was done with the Disco lever, and it does not place it too far forward.

What you will have to do though is make the hole larger for the difflock lever, as you will not be able to shift it to the right far enough to engage diff lock.

you'll also have to find some bracket or make one for the e-brake (that's all that's left on my swap).

You could opt to remove the lock-out solenoid. I did not, and hooked up the correct wires and it functions as before with the BW.

4:1 difference in tire spinning front to back? Weird. Mine locked up completely, and I've never heard of your situation. Stranger things have happened.

Too bad we didn't hook up last week in Moab. I'm heading back tomorrow in the morning. :flipoff2:

[roverhybrids]

Hey Adam,
Did you try to contact Will Tillery(sp)? He's on DW and sells quite a few rover parts for what seems like reasonable prices.
He's an old pick of me on Rusty nail.

[redrangie]

ok, now in all seriousness, were you on a severe incline when this occured?

How is the fluid level? I could see where a lack of fluid could cause this coupled with extreme vertical climbs.

In my LIMITED knowledge of these, they either work or they don't. I have not heard of slippage, but I suppose that if the fluid was really hot and low, you could have a problem.

j

[green rover]

had same problem when i put 35's on my r.rover with the tire spin, put in lt230 with r.rover linkage

[JSBriggs]

Here are some shots of the installed linkage. This essentially modifies the consol to what it is in an87 or 88 RR. This linkage was from an automatic Disco, which is the same as the RR linkage with the ZF. If you get linkage form a manual Disco, there is some slight modification to get it to work, check with KC for that, but the throw of the lever is the same.
http://pics.montypics.com/JSBriggs/2003-04-24/1051200496_230lever1.jpg
http://pics.montypics.com/JSBriggs/2003-04-24/1051200517_230lever2.jpg
http://pics.montypics.com/JSBriggs/2003-04-24/1051200541_230lever3.jpg

-Jeff

[Rover Addiction]

My understanding of the Borg Warner is that it is a limited slip center diff which means to me that it will not fully lock and can only overcome only part of the torque variation from front to rear. Are you positive these things have an automatic lock in them? If not, it should work similar to a limited slip in an axle: Not providing a direct 100% lock, but something less than 100%, based on what type of diff it is.

I have heard of these slipping although I'm not sure what is normal and what is not. I have also seen one drive around with a broken rear axle for a while on the road and not realize it was broken until it was taken on the trail, so that diff must be capable of at least a reasonable percentage of lock.

I'd say you probably want to just run it until it pukes, but look into an LT230 if you get the chance!

-John

[JSBriggs]

Here are som shots of the modified BW parking brake linkage.

http://pics.montypics.com/JSBriggs/2003-04-24/1051201041_passsidecase.jpg
http://pics.montypics.com/JSBriggs/2003-04-24/1051202275_PBrake_link.jpg
http://pics.montypics.com/JSBriggs/2003-04-24/1051203461_PBrake_link2.jpg
http://pics.montypics.com/JSBriggs/2003-04-24/1051203736_PBrake_link3.jpg
http://pics.montypics.com/JSBriggs/2003-04-24/1051203766_PBrake_link4.jpg
http://pics.montypics.com/JSBriggs/2003-04-24/1051203882_PBrake_link5.jpg
http://pics.montypics.com/JSBriggs/2003-04-24/1051203907_PBrake_link6.jpg

-Jeff

Edit: the first pic shows the boss on the Tcase that had to be drilled and tapped. I recomend figuring out the linkage before you do the swap.

[Way]

r.rover linkage

What is the difference from getting the linkage out of a disco and a Range Rover? In order to make it an easier install do I need to hunt down a Range Rover that had an original Lt230 to make it work the best?

Thanks for the pics.

I was on severe inclines when it slipped like I mentioned. Enough to where even my modified bumper it on the way up to "paint the picture". The fluid level is normal. It was not hot or cold either. Talked to Matt at Rockware today and he says it is common (especially with larger tires). I have been hesitant to do the swap as it exceeds my knowledge.

Way

[redrangie]

Originally posted by Rover Addiction
My understanding of the Borg Warner is that it is a limited slip center diff which means to me that it will not fully lock and can only overcome only part of the torque variation from front to rear. Are you positive these things have an automatic lock in them? If not, it should work similar to a limited slip in an axle: Not providing a direct 100% lock, but something less than 100%, based on what type of diff it is.

I have heard of these slipping although I'm not sure what is normal and what is not. I have also seen one drive around with a broken rear axle for a while on the road and not realize it was broken until it was taken on the trail, so that diff must be capable of at least a reasonable percentage of lock.


-John

they fully lock. just like a torque converter locks up with the right centrifugal force.

[JSBriggs]

AFAIK all of the ZF auto linkages are the same (RR ,a Disco) The Manual disco is slightly different, as is the 727 auto linkage.

-Jeff

[Way]

Thanks. Ordered the shift linkage on last Friday. I will take some pics of it when it arrives.

[lwg]

Way,
FWIW I think I have the Disco linkage in mine. I didn't cut anything out of the console, however I have recently been having problems with the center diff getting disengaged at really bad times. I am going to trim the console a little this week. As for the conversion it is pretty straight forward.

I'll post up some pics of my truck at about 30 degrees off-camber this week. All of my weight is down low. I think I could do low 40's off-camber but 45, I might have to change my drawers unless a wall or rock was there to slow the decent!!