All over the TV here... he killed a LOT of people, and if I were the type to be in favor of the death penalty -I can see why he should be one to get it...

But all this coverage about it is making me sick to my stomach... News is talking about it like it just a news story - not a man's life :(

So, where's the story?

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=Paul+Reid

Should keep you reading for a while :(

Hang the bastard

Originally posted by DRM
All over the TV here... he killed a LOT of people, and if I were the type to be in favor of the death penalty -I can see why he should be one to get it...

But all this coverage about it is making me sick to my stomach... News is talking about it like it just a news story - not a man's life :(

Originally posted by DRM
All over the TV here... he killed a LOT of people, and if I were the type to be in favor of the death penalty -I can see why he should be one to get it...

But all this coverage about it is making me sick to my stomach... News is talking about it like it just a news story - not a man's life :(

And why should he be treated like a man? He should be treated like the rabid dog that he is.

so what actually is the "penalty" in tennasee? firing squad?

comeon Jebb.... finish reloadin dem shells :flipoff2:

Wife's real dad is on death row in Oregon for killing his wife because she went lesbian on him. He killed her and the girlfriend. I don't like the guy but I don't think he deserved the death penalty. But whether he deserved it or not he's been there for years and won't be dead for years. I wonder what percectage of death row inmates die of old age waited to be put down?:rolleyes:

Originally posted by Wildfire
And why should he be treated like a man? He should be treated like the rabid dog that he is.


Many, many reasons *I* have...

He IS a man, NOT a dog.

It saddens me to think that we call ourselves an "advanced" and "civilized" society, and I have a hard time reconciling the death penalty as an attribute becoming of an advanced society.

I also have religious beliefs that lead me to my beliefs...

The entire rational for the death penalty is that death is the worst sentence that can be meted out.

The fact that so many people believe that to be the case is the strongest case for the electoral college I can think of.

And the fact that practically nobody will understand what I'm talking about is inevitable.

Originally posted by nakona
The entire rational for the death penalty is that death is the worst sentence that can be meted out.

The fact that so many people believe that to be the case is the strongest case for the electoral college I can think of.

And the fact that practically nobody will understand what I'm talking about is inevitable.

I'll bite.


What's the connection between the death penalty and the electoral college?

Originally posted by Big Nate
so what actually is the "penalty" in tennasee? firing squad?

comeon Jebb.... finish reloadin dem shells :flipoff2:

was I right?:confused:

I don't truly believe that everyone thinks that is the harshest punishment that can be handed down. The general basis of support for the death penalty in the U.S. is an emotional knee jerk at best.

And there are many other examples in our society that put forth even stronger cases in favor of the electoral college.

Originally posted by nakona
The entire rational for the death penalty is that death is the worst sentence that can be meted out.

The fact that so many people believe that to be the case is the strongest case for the electoral college I can think of.

And the fact that practically nobody will understand what I'm talking about is inevitable.

I am right there with you man....

Seems like the easy way out to me.

Talk about punishment - the only part that is TRUE punishment is the period of time from when you find out the EXACT day and time of your own death, until that time comes to actual fruition.

Sadder still is that most rationalize it on an economic basis (i.e. prisoners cost too much to keep alive) - yet another sad aspect of the supposed "advanced society" we have :(

Originally posted by Big Nate


was I right?:confused:


He gets to choose! Yes, in YET ANOTHER sick and twisted aspect of our "advanced society", we somehow think it fitting to make the man choose his form of death!

Lethal injection - or the electric chair.


Lethal injection I can marginally understand, but the electric chair? Has no other purpose than REVENGE... and a legal and punishment system based on revenge is a trly frightening thought for me :eek:

Originally posted by DRM
Sadder still is that most rationalize it on an economic basis (i.e. prisoners cost too much to keep alive) - yet another sad aspect of the supposed "advanced society" we have :(

And I believe that's wrong anyway....? :confused: Not sure, but you're right, that argument is used.

It's more expensive to fully appeal a death penalty case than it is to keep a man in prison for life. I have no evidence or link to a study, but that sounds right to me.

I think with DNA evidence now, the death penalty actually becomes feasible. But a true free society can never afford to put even one innocent citizen to death, and no human can be a perfect judge of guilt, and no 12 humans can be, and no panel of judges or experts. We know this is true from legal precedent.

So the DNA evidence thing cuts both ways. It's revealed that we have executed innocent people, and it also tightens the case against others....who knows what will happen now.

rusted, Do you feel that the death penalty is signifigantly more severe a punishment that life in prison? I am just curious because other sentences are rairly debated, and it is understood that innocent people are convicted. I guess my point is, that there is only one reasonable argument aginst the death penalty, and that is because we do not have the right to take the life of another human being(self defense excluded).

Originally posted by DRM
and I have a hard time reconciling the death penalty as an attribute becoming of an advanced society.

Well...here it goes.
I have to agree with David on this.
Pip

Originally posted by hoehand
rusted, Do you feel that the death penalty is signifigantly more severe a punishment that life in prison? I am just curious because other sentences are rairly debated, and it is understood that innocent people are convicted. I guess my point is, that there is only one reasonable argument aginst the death penalty, and that is because we do not have the right to take the life of another human being(self defense excluded).

A thread came up a few weeks ago about prison rape, and if you had read that, you would know that I would rather die than go to prison. I'm a 5'10" 200lb white boy with long eyelashes. I'd take lethal injection over 40 years of ass-banging, thank you.

That said, ostensibly we do not send people to prison to be raped, although some seem to like that idea (a little cavemanish and immature to me, but they're out there.) We send them to keep them confined and isolated from society. That's an honest goal, even if we don't always obtain it.

Furthermore, there are many cases of a convict with a life sentence being let free because of new evidence. I mean, complete and utter acquital. How do you begin to recompense a man who has lost 10 years of his life? With freedom. Now, how do you recompense a dead man?

With even ONE case like that on the books, I see no justification for the death penalty at all. So in short, life in prison is not a heavier in sanction than death; you have a chance in the first case.

Originally posted by rusted


I think with DNA evidence now, the death penalty actually becomes feasible. But a true free society can never afford to put even one innocent citizen to death, and no human can be a perfect judge of guilt, and no 12 humans can be, and no panel of judges or experts. We know this is true from legal precedent.


If you don't like the rules don't lay the game....


It's not like this is new to criminals, they know how the system works (sometimes too well), whether it's perfect or not.... the rules are there, they choose to play the game...


My personal opinion:
step back and look at the big picture. Humans are animals. No matter how "civilized" we are there is still a basic survival instinct that is instilled in everyone of us. if one of our own kind is "needlessly" (the best word I can come up with after 15 hours of work and a 6 pack in the last 1.5hrs) killing off others, kill him for the betterment of the "herd". Now before you anyone says I'm comparing a human to a lesser animal, it's all relative. I don't know of any species other than humans where a mother will kill (and eat in most cases) her young if there is not 100% confidence that the "child" will make it. So why should we not "cleanse" our own species (notice I said species not race) if one member is a threat to teh rest..... I personally am for the death penalty, but only because thats the least we can do.... an "eye for an eye" is more along the lines of what I think is proper..... We are more advanced that any otehr species, and I thin that that is our biggest downfall....


:usa:

Originally posted by YellowSub1962



If you don't like the rules don't lay the game....


It's not like this is new to criminals, they know how the system works (sometimes too well), whether it's perfect or not.... the rules are there, they choose to play the game...


My personal opinion:
step back and look at the big picture. Humans are animals. No matter how "civilized" we are there is still a basic survival instinct that is instilled in everyone of us. if one of our own kind is "needlessly" (the best word I can come up with after 15 hours of work and a 6 pack in the last 1.5hrs) killing off others, kill him for the betterment of the "herd". Now before you anyone says I'm comparing a human to a lesser animal, it's all relative. I don't know of any species other than humans where a mother will kill (and eat in most cases) her young if there is not 100% confidence that the "child" will make it. So why should we not "cleanse" our own species (notice I said species not race) if one member is a threat to teh rest..... I personally am for the death penalty, but only because thats the least we can do.... an "eye for an eye" is more along the lines of what I think is proper..... We are more advanced that any otehr species, and I thin that that is our biggest downfall....


:usa:

Nothing there I disagree with in a theoretical sense, but call it what it is: Eugenics, a practice made unpopular by Adolf Hitler. Instead of advocating the culling of the retarded, homosexual or physically disabled, you advocate basing herd-culling on behavior. At least the Nazis were scientific about it: Down's Syndrome is a clear genetic defect in every single case, losing the battle to defeat our animal urges is not.

Your response did not address the fact that we can't decide who is guilty with enough precision to administer a flawless death penatly system.

*edit* for some gratuitous snotty language on my part.

Yes we are animals, but we have decided as a society that we need certain rules in order to function and prosper. THe majority of these rules go against our basic animal instincts. My animal instincts would incline me to take my neighbors wife because I am stronger and able. We have determined as a society that this type of behavior will lead to anarchy. Therefore there are laws forbiding that type of action. As there are laws forbidding taking anothers life.

And rusted, the only reason I chose to respond to you in particular is because I have determined that we see eye to eye on many issues. And if I was being sentenced to life in prison, I would rather be put to death. Even with the chance that i could be aquited. The odds would not be on my side.

edit
rusted, I am still curious. What is your primary reason for opposing the death penalty?

Originally posted by hoehand


edit
rusted, I am still curious. What is your primary reason for opposing the death penalty?


Because we can't know for sure who is guilty in every single case. If we had a time machine, I'd be for it.

Originally posted by rusted


Because we can't know for sure who is guilty in every single case. If we had a time machine, I'd be for it.


so exactly what can we be certain of then?


:usa:

I am going to leave you hanging on this because I am going home now, but a few posts up you said you would rather die than go to prison. then in the same post you said So in short, life in prison is not a heavier sanction than death; you have a chance in the first case. So which is the harsher punishment. I feel that the majority of Americans would also answer that they would prefer death over life in prison. Yet you primary reason against the death penalty is due to the inability for the justice sytem to seperate the innocewnt from the guilty and again I say life sentences are rarely debated. So if deep down you feel that life in prison is a harsher punishment why not oppse life sentences?

I feel that the justice system is merely a means to keep individuals that cannot live within the law seperated from the rest of society.

Originally posted by rusted


Nothing there I disagree with in a theoretical sense, but call it what it is: Eugenics, a practice made unpopular by Adolf Hitler. Instead of advocating the culling of the retarded, homosexual or physically disabled, you advocate basing herd-culling on behavior. At least the Nazis were scientific about it: Down's Syndrome is a clear genetic defect in every single case, losing the battle to defeat our animal urges is not.

Your response did not address the fact that we can't decide who is guilty with enough precision to administer a flawless death penatly system.

*edit* for some gratuitous snotty language on my part.

How did you get to camparing the justified killing of one man that is a threat to every free person on the planet to the "genetic cleansing" of the Nazis?

Like I said, we all know the rules...If we don't like it we're free to move to anyother place in the world, where we would even stand a chance 99.9% of the time.....some place wher there is no trial and accusation = death....


:usa:[/color]


:usa:

Originally posted by YellowSub1962



so exactly what can we be certain of then?


:usa:


We can be sure that if we kill someone, we can't bring them back to life.

Other than that, nothing is gauranteed.

Originally posted by YellowSub1962


How did you get to camparing the justified killing of one man that is a threat to every free person on the planet to the "genetic cleansing" of the Nazis?

Like I said, we all know the rules...If we don't like it we're free to move to anyother place in the world, where we would even stand a chance 99.9% of the time.....some place wher there is no trial and accusation = death....


:usa:[/color]


:usa:

You're bringing in a comparison. If you want to talk about that, I agree with you, the US does a great job administering a criminal justice system. Along the lines of 'Democracy being the worst form of government except for every other form...'. We are that way because we strive to be as fair as possible. Since we are not perfect, we need to continually improve, and since we are the best, we use our past shortcomings as a springboard for the future.

OTOH, I disagree with you about moving out if you don't like the rules. The Constitution specifically gaurantees me the right to change the rules right here at home, which I will do, thank you very much. Yet another reason why the US is so advanced.

Originally posted by YellowSub1962


How did you get to camparing the justified killing of one man that is a threat to every free person on the planet to the "genetic cleansing" of the Nazis?
:usa:


:usa:

Too harsh on my part.

Originally posted by rusted



OTOH, I disagree with you about moving out if you don't like the rules. The Constitution specifically gaurantees me the right to change the rules right here at home, which I will do, thank you very much. Yet another reason why the US is so advanced.

;) see thats playing by the rules ..... one of the rules is if we don't like it we can change it (or at least try).... it's all just a big game in a way...


and none of that we directed at you personally BTW, just replying to your comments and giving my $.01 worth :D


:usa:

Originally posted by rusted



We can be sure that if we kill someone, we can't bring them back to life.

Other than that, nothing is gauranteed.


Exactly. We can free people wrongly charged, we can HARSHLY punish people who are justly charged. But we CANNOT bring people back from the dead...