There were promises a while back about details of this.

I have a drum brake 93 110 salisbury and the remains of a disco I rear axle with hubs and such.

Tell me how to make it happen :flipoff2:

Ron

Pixie dust. Soy based Pixie dust.

:flipoff2:

Lemme remember how it was done and I'll post something. 'Till then you have to live with my smart ass remarks. :D

Ok, now for the real answer.

The big question is weather or not you want to re-use your Salisbury half-shafts. You do? Ok, listen up.

You will need to change out the stub axles to an earlier pre-US spec RR rear stub axle. The reason for this is that the earlier stub axle uses a hub that has a wider bearing distance, and a wider profile than the standard US spec Rangie or Disco or Defender stuff.

The wider hub and longer spindle place the outer drive flange in the correct position to be able to use the factory length axle.

Ok, so now you have your axle figured out, on to the brakes.

Make a 1/2 inch plate bracket, mount the caliper to the rotor, mount the bracket to the caliper and square it up to the tube. Tack it in place and your off to the races.

Good luck!

PS That'll be $50 consulting fee please!

:flipoff2:

Are the hubs off a non ABS range rover compatible or does it have to be pre US? I am pretty sure non abs hubs are longer.

Ron

Hmmm, dunno.

I just remembr Cooper being very adamant about using an older hub/spindle combo and we miraculously came up with an '83 complete rear end. We used the spindles and hubs off of it and it worked. If you could get a measurement of the pre-ABS spindles you could see if it would work.

Also, you could just invest a little time maybe and try setting up your rear end with the parts you have. I don't think it'll work with the Disco spindles/hubs, but you'll at least get the dimensional difference and see what spindles and hubs you could find that would work.

If you have a lathe there is an easier (and cheaper) way. This way you don't need to replace the hubs aqnd stub axles.

(1) remove hubs and complete drum brake assembly

(2) Get a RR disc place it on the DRUM BRAKE REAR HUB and mark where it would hit the ribs on the hub.

(3) Put the hub in a lathe and machine the back of it so that the required ribs are removed and the back is smooth. Mark the bolt centreline and drill/tap it so that you can bolt the disc/rotor to the drum brake hub.

(4) Bolt it all up to the car then worry about making the rotor mounts.

You don't have to use RR rear calipers, you can fit larger twin pot calipers (probably with cheaper pads). Over here Early 6cyl Ford front calipers are popular (cortina). Any large twin pot caliper should do.

After you have made the brackets (as per serious 1's method) you will probably need to fit a proportioning valve so that you don't lock up the back brakes before the front all the time.

Ben.

Originally posted by evilfij
Are the hubs off a non ABS range rover compatible or does it have to be pre US? I am pretty sure non abs hubs are longer.

Ron

It's being 10 spline that make them longer as well as non abs. I have a set. I can put a tape to them if you need.

j

IsuzuRover,

I think that yourmethod of fitting alternative calipers is really slick. However...it still leaves the problem of the axle shaft being physically too long to be used with the factory axles.

I guess if you wanted to use the US stuff you could machine a ring, ala NSO's front CV conversion ring, that would allow you to fill up the 'gap' that would exist between the hub flange and the axle flange.

It's always good to hear how you Aussies and Kiwi's do things down there. You have a whole set of parts that we don't even know exist!

i was playing with a drum brakes salisbury the other week in the garage. i kept the original drum braked stubs on, and offered up a defender front hub unit (an early 23 spline type) and it went straight on! exact fit, the only thing that would need doing, is some kind of large washer/spacer thing to fit the sals stub (if you look at it, the stub has a 'flat' on the end where the lock tab fits on...defenders use one with a 'tag' instead, and the drum braked axles have this spacer/washer thing that fits in neatly, so one of these would beed turning down to fit).

but the locknuts and everything else fitted fine. i stuck in the (drum braked spec) driveshafts (as i had the differential unit out and the cover plate off of the back of the casing) and they sat within about 3mm of the proper place for the shafts. it might well have been more accurate but i only quickly took a measurement.

and the salisbury rear discs will fit the defender front hub units.

so all you need then are the calliper brackets. either fab some up like seriousone says (looks neat in his axle too!) or if you're feeling a little spendy, order a couple of FTC 3306 which are the proper brake calliper brackets (£18.54 UKP each). these bolt straight onto the ends of the drum braked axles (using the stub axle bolts). my 300Tdi 110 had these on, but the newer stuff (like my Td5) has the brackets cast into the axle case (like 90 rear axles)

stock callipers will then bolt right up. can re-assemble the axle and take some pics if anyone doesn't understand the crap i'm spurting out today.:(

Originally posted by Diesel Jim
i was playing with a drum brakes salisbury the other week in the garage. i kept the original drum braked stubs on, and offered up a defender front hub unit (an early 23 spline type) and it went straight on! exact fit, the only thing that would need doing, is some kind of large washer/spacer thing to fit the sals stub (if you look at it, the stub has a 'flat' on the end where the lock tab fits on...defenders use one with a 'tag' instead, and the drum braked axles have this spacer/washer thing that fits in neatly, so one of these would beed turning down to fit).

but the locknuts and everything else fitted fine. i stuck in the (drum braked spec) driveshafts (as i had the differential unit out and the cover plate off of the back of the casing) and they sat within about 3mm of the proper place for the shafts. it might well have been more accurate but i only quickly took a measurement.

and the salisbury rear discs will fit the defender front hub units.

so all you need then are the calliper brackets. either fab some up like seriousone says (looks neat in his axle too!) or if you're feeling a little spendy, order a couple of FTC 3306 which are the proper brake calliper brackets (£18.54 UKP each). these bolt straight onto the ends of the drum braked axles (using the stub axle bolts). my 300Tdi 110 had these on, but the newer stuff (like my Td5) has the brackets cast into the axle case (like 90 rear axles)

stock callipers will then bolt right up. can re-assemble the axle and take some pics if anyone doesn't understand the crap i'm spurting out today.:(

Wholly Shiat!

we have a winner!

I have some rear non abs rr hubs and some front non abs rr hubs. Something ought to fit.

Ron

Originally posted by Serious One
IsuzuRover,

I think that yourmethod of fitting alternative calipers is really slick. However...it still leaves the problem of the axle shaft being physically too long to be used with the factory axles.

I guess if you wanted to use the US stuff you could machine a ring, ala NSO's front CV conversion ring, that would allow you to fill up the 'gap' that would exist between the hub flange and the axle flange.

It's always good to hear how you Aussies and Kiwi's do things down there. You have a whole set of parts that we don't even know exist!

I take it you mean that you can't use off the shelf alloy replacement axles bacause they are the wrong length???? That is true, either you need to buy alloy axles specifically for a drum braked 110 or make up some spacers.

Cheers for the feedback.

just went home and took some pics of the axle re-assembled as i did it the other week.

pretty self explanitary really, you can see the oiginal salisbury stub axle in place, with its 'flat' edge for the lock tab. this is the only place (that i can see) that might need something fabbing up, but i just stuck on the original front "thick-spacer-cum-washer-thing" that goes between the wheel bearing and the first locknut, and it fitted a treat, the little tag on it stopped it spinning around (it cought up on the stub 'flat' no probem) so i don't think it will really be an issue.

the vented disc thats in there is a stock 90/110 front disc, i'm not sure what the offset of the salisbury disc is (look at the gap between the edhe of the disc and the shock lower mount...fairly close...i looked at my 110 and the gap is about twice this size, not sure of this is because of the offset of the disc or the different hubs i'm playing with... SO... it might mean that my idea of using the bolt on LR calliper mounts might not work, unless you cut/weld them to make the calliper fit properly. i'll have to get one and try it out.

pic 1

pic 2

pic 3 shows the locktab with the 'flat' on it, and the spacer thing that would normally go in the drum braked axle. and the spacer that goes in the front of defenders with the 'tag' to stop it from rotating when you do up the wheelbearing locknut. i found that this fitted straight over the salisbury stub and didn't rotate, the tag held it fine.

Hmmmm....it's looking pretty good actually.

Is the axle flange bolted down at all to the hub? I believe the distance or gap we see between the axle flange and the hub is the reason that we thought the earlier stub axle/hub combo would need to be used.

If the gap can be eliminated with your setup then I think it's probably a go.

I used factory RR vented front discs on the rear Salisbury for the CC. Official authentic Salisbury discs are only found on the front axle, I believe the rear disc brake Salisbury axles use solid rotors.

The shock clearance doesn't bother me, so if you can find a way to get a caliper in there it should work just great!

Cool pics!

the hub bit is tightened right up at this point (with the wheel bearing nut).

you're right, the salisbury rear discs are solid, but larger diameter than D90 rears (but not as big as D90 fronts). i'll measure the ones on my 110 later. they are mighty thick though. virtually as thick as the vented fronts in the picture.

Looks good Jim. I think you are right in thinking that you won't be able to use the factory caliper mounts.

All the conversions over here have used 110 front or non ventilated (really early) RR front calipers, because you need a large caliper for the weight of the 110.

Some of the conversions have used the Ford calipers I mentioned earlier (thy are good because they are nice and big and a set of pads is only $15AUD (approx $9USD) per axle. Others have used RR front calipers (modified so all 4 pots work from 1 circuit).

Cheers,

Ben.

Originally posted by ISUZUROVER
Looks good Jim. I think you are right in thinking that you won't be able to use the factory caliper mounts.

All the conversions over here have used 110 front or non ventilated (really early) RR front calipers, because you need a large caliper for the weight of the 110.

Some of the conversions have used the Ford calipers I mentioned earlier (thy are good because they are nice and big and a set of pads is only $15AUD (approx $9USD) per axle. Others have used RR front calipers (modified so all 4 pots work from 1 circuit).

Cheers,

Ben.

yeah, i know what you mean. for something as heavy as Mike's D147 defender, then i think it would be OK, but for a 90, or even a 'light' loaded 110, you'd have to use smaller callipers (like the early rangie or early 90/110 fronts...smaller pads) or just stick in a pressure regulator into the rear brake line.

i've got a rangie rear axle on both my 90's, and the brakes on those suck! the pissy little pads wear out after, oooh.... 2000miles. right down to the metal! (thsi is trying to stop 35" tyres though...)

Originally posted by Diesel Jim


yeah, i know what you mean. for something as heavy as Mike's D147 defender, then i think it would be OK, but for a 90, or even a 'light' loaded 110, you'd have to use smaller callipers (like the early rangie or early 90/110 fronts...smaller pads) or just stick in a pressure regulator into the rear brake line.

i've got a rangie rear axle on both my 90's, and the brakes on those suck! the pissy little pads wear out after, oooh.... 2000miles. right down to the metal! (thsi is trying to stop 35" tyres though...)

2000miles!!! wow that is short. The factory 110 rears last 40-50 000km (30 000 miles), and the ones with ford calipers are about the same (and this is even with 35's!!!). Probably depends on how much mud you drive in though.

In the previous post I meant to say rotors/discs (instead of calipers) in the second paragraph.

Originally posted by Diesel Jim


yeah, i know what you mean. for something as heavy as Mike's D147 defender.....


DOOOD!

It's not a D147 or a Defender! It's a 145 inch Land Rover CrewCab.

Get it straight man! :flipoff2: :D

Originally posted by Serious One



DOOOD!

It's not a D147 or a Defender! It's a 145 inch Land Rover CrewCab.

Get it straight man! :flipoff2: :D



D'OH!! :goofball: still, what's 2" between friends? :D


Isuzurover... yeah, 2000miles is really crappy. my 110 gets about 20~30k out of them, but these RR ones are really bad. i think it's because of the weight of my 90 (2440kg fully loaded) and the fact it's got 35" tyres. definately got to do something.
considering sticking on those front vented discs on the back with some front callipers and a pressure adjuster. that should stop the old girl better!

Originally posted by Serious One



DOOOD!

It's not a D147 or a Defender! It's a 145 inch Land Rover CrewCab.

Get it straight man! :flipoff2: :D

Wow, I have seen some pics of it on here (buildup etc) but didn't know it was longer than 127". That must have one hell of a turning circle!!!

Originally posted by Diesel Jim




D'OH!! :goofball: still, what's 2" between friends? :D


Isuzurover... yeah, 2000miles is really crappy. my 110 gets about 20~30k out of them, but these RR ones are really bad. i think it's because of the weight of my 90 (2440kg fully loaded) and the fact it's got 35" tyres. definately got to do something.
considering sticking on those front vented discs on the back with some front callipers and a pressure adjuster. that should stop the old girl better!

Jim, do you have a pressure adjuster on the 90? Maybe the rear brakes are doing almost all the work? How long do the fronts last?

The best pressure adjuster to buy here (should be able to get it in UK or US also) is a new Volvo (car) one. don't have the part number but it ius reasonably priced and internally adjustable.

I have a pressure regulator on the CrewCab, it is made by Willwood. They make two models. One is a lever actuated regulator, it has about 5-6 different click-stops for adjusting the ratio. The other is a knob and is infinitely adjustable.

I'm running the knob version and it seems to work well. I'm running it full open BTW, otherwise the fronts just take all of the power it seems.

no, not got a regulator on mine, but the fronts definately work (you can get them to lock up OK on an emergency stop), and they pass the UK transport test annualy (where they put the vehicle on a rolling road and check the brakes).

they're just puny! i've got a spare back axle kicking around, might well love it up a little, weld on some reinforcing plates around the CW area, and do the brake conversion in the 'comfort' of the workshop then swap axles over.