I was just wondering if anyone here could answer this question for me, or has any experience with this. I have an 89 RRC with OME HD springs all around, bilstein shocks and 2" spacers front and rear w/front shock relocation kit, as well as 265/75/16 BFG MT's. I have been looking at the 2" body lift from RTE and was wondering what mods I would need to make in terms of drive shaft, brake lines, etc..

Currently with the 3.5-4" of lift I have, I have not had to make any mods whatsoever in these areas and would like to keep it that way as long as possible.

So I guess my question is, would I have to make any mods anywhere on the rover if I added the 2" body lift to my current setup, is the RTE body lift the one to go with, and how long-difficult is the install?

Thanks as always,

Ben Ziskind
TyziskBen@netscape.net

Other things that require doing.

Seat belt mounts require extending as do.
Brake lines.
Clutch line if a manual.
Low range selector.

regards
Michael.

Why would you want the body lift? Why not just cut the fenders? A body lift will raise your C of G.

Just my thoughts. Plus there is the problem of all your bumpers and sliders looking funny with a 2" space between them and the body.

The only reason for a body lift is tire clearance. A sazall will be more benificial in the long run. You don't raise you center of gravity, and you get a new tool out of it.

-Jeff

I saw a pic of someone's rover (red one w/35's) on EE boards, it had about 6" of lift with springs, spacers, and body lift and I liked how it looked. I'm really not too keen on cutting, although the new tool would be nice!:) But I've seen a few jeeps around my campus that have em' and I like how they look.

Ammon
Posted on Wednesday, April 02, 2003 - 01:00 pm:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
here is a pic of the RR sitting in the garage.
note: the tires in the pic are not what is on it right now.

So what are we talking about for hrs in labor to put this on? And cost of other parts to buy? Because the RTE kit says it comes with EVERYTHING to install the kit.

:eek: No driveline mods yet? When i added the extra 2 inches to my truck, my front driveshaft was practically poping everytime it did a revolution. Oh and i do believe that you will have to extend brakelines for a body lift. But i think that body lifts are:rainbow: Buy a Sawzall:flipoff2:

Brad

Ammon,
Be aware you are about to cross the line into many driveline upgrades. You may get lucky and be the 1 out of 100 who thinks they don't have vibration issues. Obviously if you are looking at bigger tires you will probably start breaking things if you wheel it. I would just expect to have to buy new:

Front and Rear Driveshafts
Possibly and axle upgrade to at least stock 24-spline
Brake lines front and rear


And this is if you don't mess with the suspension. I would seriously reconsider cutting the fenders. Unless you don't plan on wheeling, this would be the cheapest and best solution in the long run.

TyziskBen,

I'm not a big fan of body lifts and have installed and removed a body lift on a Jeep I owned years ago, but the range rover is a different animal and RTE body lift is good way of getting additional clearance without much sacrifice to C of G. I prefer the body lift over having spacer blocks under the springs.

As to having stock drivelines, BW t-case, 10 spline axles, on a RR with 35" tires and that much lift you will eventually have problems because these items cannot withstand the stresses placed on them. The truck you saw has run that configuration on the Rubicon, Dusy and Moab (rock pile on Pritchett is the only place I winched) and I never had a problem but it takes a little finess and less skinny pedal.

Half way through modifing my truck I realized that when I was done I woudn't exactly have what I wanted so thats why I am getting rid of everything from the frame down.

Hopefully it will be on the trail soon with a lot of Ford components underneath that can handle the 40" MTR's.

Ron A

Originally posted by rojorover

Hopefully it will be on the trail soon with a lot of Ford components underneath that can handle the 40" MTR's.

Ron A


This I've got to see. I'll bet you be shiny side down at 30 degrees off-camber!

Thanks for the input everyone. As of right now, I'm not going to be seriously wheeling it for a while since I'm in college and I use it mainly for transportation (unfortunately) to get to and from school, and to some trails. The wheeling that I do use it for is mostly deep mud trails w/hills and mid-door height water runs, to get to good running/hiking/biking trails... NO ROCKS WHATSOEVER!!!! I plan on putting 33"-35" tires on it, but that may not be until later this summer when and if I sell my 265/75/16 BFG MT's since they still have approx. 80% tread left on them.

If I did go up to a 33 or 35 after I put on the body lift, and didn't use it for hard offroading, just to get more height, traction in mud, water, etc.....would I have to upgrade the axels just from the additioanl weight of the tires, and upgrade the driveshafts from the additional height???

And back to the lift... so I'd really only need to put on extended brake lines??? All the rest of the stuff comes with the kit, which you say is very good.

Ok, so here is the list of mods for this summer:

Body Lift: $250.00
Ext. Brake Lines: $4x20ea....$80.00
Scorpion Rear Shock Mounts: $150.00
-----------------------------------------------------
Grand Total: $480.00 +shipping

The tires I figure I'll buy used/and sell mine........so maybe an even exchange :D

Oh yea, rojorover,

what are you selling off of the range rover, cause I may be interested in some things............

What 35" tire can you use on the 3 spoke rover alloys?

Like what are the measurements???
ex: 35x15.5 swamper sx's would need to go on a 15.5" rim correct?

So can you put tires such as 35" on the stock alloys???

ex: 35x15.5 swamper sx's would need to go on a 15.5" rim correct?

Holy Moley:rolleyes:

Originally posted by TyziskBen
What 35" tire can you use on the 3 spoke rover alloys?

Like what are the measurements???
ex: 35x15.5 swamper sx's would need to go on a 15.5" rim correct?

So can you put tires such as 35" on the stock alloys???

Not sure where to go with this!!:eek: :rolleyes:

Moley moley moley Mole!!!

15.5" is the nominal width of the tire. I says nothing of rim diameter, but if you know how the tire is designed, you can make a guess about proper rim width. 15.5 will not fit on any Rover rim. You need to check manufacturers data for the tires you are interested in.

I'd also suggest you double your parts budget to accomodate for tools, fasteners and modifications that you will need to do to the stuff you buy, and other surprises. "Everthing is included" is usually a bad joke.

Originally posted by Puffdragon


Not sure where to go with this!!:eek: :rolleyes:


How 'bout we let Old Scout tell him where to go?

I already did one today.....

Oh, and would someone explain this to me?


If I did go up to a 33 or 35 after I put on the body lift, and didn't use it for hard offroading, just to get more height, traction in mud, water, etc.....


j

Originally posted by TyziskBen
ex: 35x15.5 swamper sx's would need to go on a 15.5" rim correct?


Welcome Newbie:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

The only way you learn, is by asking!

Now, on to the good stuff. My tires are 35/12.50/15. I am running them on an 8" wide rim. BF Goodrich recommends a rim width of 8.5 - 11.0 inches.

The stock rim width is either 6.5" or 7". Most 35" tires are going to require a wider rim. There are a few really narrow 35" tires.

Hey,

I figure I'd rather get torn apart on this board where everyone knows what they're talking about and get it right the first time, then not ask at all and learn the hard way...........That's what the NEWBIE label's for right????

And, I'm going to be doing these mods at my friends garage, so I'll have access to all tools, lift, etc........and he is a big time offroader (20+ yrs experience), so he knows how to put on most of this stuff since he's probably already done it to his own trucks once or twice....so the parts are all Ill have to pay for, well that and lunch...

Is anyone on this board running 35" tires w/the stock rover alloy's on their RRC, and if so, could you post a pic please.....

Thanks everyone, I think....:p

Ben

Sorry man - stock alloys aren't strong enough for 35's - seen them all busted up with 205's.

Disco Steels will take a 35X10.5 - which unfortunately is a rare size.... Simex do it - but you are wasting your time with these on the road...

Use that internet connection to do some searching on the web for information on rangie tyre options - don't be a lazy newbie :flipoff2: - there is plenty of info out there.....

So let me get this straight, all you guys running 33 -35" tyres on Rangies and with no body lift and say sawzall it.....

What about the rear wheel wells? You cant even run a 32" tyre with stock up travel and articulation without a 2" BL, add longer travel with inboard bumpstops = more stuffage on the compressed side = major contact. So either your using the tyre as a bumpstop in the rear and loosing compression or youve done some big time tubbing....

"Yeah we use these big arse bump stops and huge spring lifts....."

I would much rather have 2" BL + 3~4" spring lift for CoG and stability issues than 5~6" of spring lift and limiting up travel.

"Discos and Rovers are too top heavy as it is..."

Compared to what? A soft top Jeep, or a buggy. Well no kidding. My Rangie has nearly 7" of total lift in it between tyres, springs and BL and I'm still lower in the 'hood' and roofline than stock Landcruisers and Patrols etc and since most of the weight in a RR body is in the doors you dont loose a lot of stability by lifting the body 2", some yes, but not nearly the degree that people winge about, and its gotta be done if you want big meats without interference or major surgery.

Without tubbing and cutting the 'fenders' there is NO WAY your gunna run 35's on a RRC without either major sacrifice of uptravel/articulation and major contact in the inner rear wheel well.

A well executed 2" BL on a RRC isnt a bad thing compared with the alternatives to run a 35" tyre IMHO. The body lift can give you many of the gains of a spring lift with potentially less issues, particulalry driveline angles and dynamics of more acute suspension link angles (read handling).

Cheers
Daryl

Daryl,
I guess you would have to see it to believe it. See my Lower Helldorado pics. I don't have as much up travel, but have much more down travel. The uptravel gets limited by the springs completely compressing. The 35" tires do hit the inside of the back wheelwell, but that's it. Not really a problem.

Front articulation never really is an issue as the uptravel never really existed anyways.

Of course most of our wheelin', out west anyways, is rock. Wheel articulation is generally accepted as a good thing for RockCrawling.

Originally posted by TyziskBen
And, I'm going to be doing these mods at my friends garage, so I'll have access to all tools, lift, etc........and he is a big time offroader (20+ yrs experience), so he knows how to put on most of this stuff since he's probably already done it to his own trucks once or twice....so the parts are all Ill have to pay for, well that and lunch...
You know 9V?

:flipoff2:


I run 34's 2" spring lift with a little tire rub in the rear wheel wells and a bit more on the front radius arms. No problems here.

-Jeff


Oh and Ben,:flipoff2:welcome newbie:flipoff2:

ooohhh yes please lets argue about body lifts :flipoff2:

Q:

If one guy has a 5" spring lift and the other has a 3" spring lift and a 2" body lift - who has the highest C O G ?

The guy with the 5 inch spring lift will have slightly higher Cof G, due to engine and gearbox being slightly higher.

The difference bugger all.

Most people running lifts of any sort also fit wheels with greater offsets which helps increase stability.

regards
Michael.

Originally posted by Bodgerover
ooohhh yes please lets argue about body lifts :flipoff2:

Q:

If one guy has a 5" spring lift and the other has a 3" spring lift and a 2" body lift - who has the highest C O G ?

How about a 3" spring lift and a 2" body lift VS. a 3" spring lift and a 2" fender trim - who has the highest C O G ?


-Jeff

Originally posted by lwg
Daryl,
I guess you would have to see it to believe it. See my Lower Helldorado pics. I don't have as much up travel, but have much more down travel. The uptravel gets limited by the springs completely compressing. The 35" tires do hit the inside of the back wheelwell, but that's it. Not really a problem.

Front articulation never really is an issue as the uptravel never really existed anyways.

Of course most of our wheelin', out west anyways, is rock. Wheel articulation is generally accepted as a good thing for RockCrawling.

Ive seen your pics, and Im not having a go at you, but Ive got a RR and have spent quite some time under and around it and Im sick of people saying you can fit a bigger tyre just with a spring lift cause its BS. There is always something either limiting the uptravel or it has a BL.

Your spring is limiting uptravel, therefore the argument against using a body lift because it raises the CoG goes out the window cause you just raised yours to fit the 35's, bodylift or bound spring the result on the CoG is the same. More downtravel doesnt help in offcamber unarticulated situations either cause the unsprung weight generally isnt pitching in to stop body roll(over) till too late (OK this is a massive generalisation to make a point), of course this is ignoring whether the rig is balanced or not.

If the spring didnt bind and the stock bumpstop was still there you would have major issues. Bind the wheel up into the well and start reversing and see what happens, smiley rear lower links here we come.

Articulation is only good to a point, sacrifice up travel too much and you end up unbalanced and top heavy.

JSBriggs

Whats your rig?
what sort of springs/spacers?
what sort of bumpstops?

If your running 34" on a RR with no BL, stock bumpstops and nothing else limiting uptravel your tyre is stopping compression travel to the tune of 3" or more, a bit more than a little rubbing.

Cheers
Daryl

OK...lets do some simple math (don't pick on me coz I'm being useful!:flipoff2: ) :

Assume the following:
1. Drivertrain = Engine+TC+Gearbox
2. LRS = 4" suspension lift(SL)+35" tires (with cutting)
3. LRB = 2"SL+2"BL+35"tires (with cutting)
4. Tires are the same on same width/offset wheels

A. Height of Drivertrain (and hence height of COG):
LRS = 3" tire lift [(35-29)/2=3] + 4" SL = 7"
LRB = 3" tire lift [(35-29)/2=3] + 2" SL = 5"

B. Height of Roof:
LRS = 3" TL + 4" SL = 7"
LRB = 3" TL + 2" SL + 2" BL = 7"

Well, then LRB has a lower COG, depite the fact that the roofline is at the same height as LRS.

Then again, I almost failed Math Class in High-school :D

(for the newbies - like me ....)

i think it would be cooler to leave it stock, put in dual ARB's and run those itty-bitty baby swampers (29/8.50x15 @ $89/tire)

what do you think those aligned diffs are for, anyway?

i've been on fairly "technical" terrain on the stock size 205's, and picking good lines there aren't issues with clearance.

sure, you can choose the deepest part of the rut and get stuck. but what was the point again to drive the trail regardless of how I drove the truck? i don't see much fun in that. probably never will.

i know that everyone wants to act like they live next to the rubicon or something (LOL - hey Jeff!), but be honest with yourself, and with the local terrain. For the type of off-roading that I like to do, I prefer to see some challenge left built in to the rig than go all out for "point and shoot".

we have trails dissapearing so fast around here that making a point and shoot rig just for wheeling in this state is, well . . . pointless.

unless you're going to trailer your rig to moab once a year, i still believe that anything over 35" is way overkill for running the vast majority of trails. you can get in most places with 33's, and surprise the hell out of yourself on even the stock tire size.

most of the people i've seen on here that have modified their trucks extensively have done so _after_ maxing it out on the trails.

if your driving skills still aren't up to piloting a stock LR through a moderate trail, then i think it's kind of poseurish to start throwing $$$ at it for the sake of big tires.

just my .02 -

Searover,

I concur.

And to each his own. I still like my cut fenders and no body lift.:flipoff2:

Originally posted by SeaRover
(for the newbies - like me ....)


if your driving skills still aren't up to piloting a stock LR through a moderate trail, then i think it's kind of poseurish to start throwing $$$ at it for the sake of big tires.

-

I agree. This should be the standard response to all newbies.

j

indeed Larry - each to his own :)

i should come clean - i have a bone-stock suspension (and i mean stock in every way - i don't even bother to disconnect the anti-roll bars) on a 91 RRC, and 235/85's.

after wheeling on it this way for awhile i've been playing with the idea of adding a 1" body lift and some smallish flares to open things up and to keep the the tops of the tire from rubbing the top inside of the wells.

a good friend has some nice woodhead and spring take offs from his D1 with about 40k on 'em. perfect. all my coin is getting saved for a rear ARB, and a CV retrofit for the front. until then i will continue to belt the piss out of my rig just the way it sits.

the 32's clear most everything after taking a sawzall to the forward inner lip of the rear tub. I took out nearly 2 1/2" of material starting at the bottom, and re-shaped the radius to cut back flat to the stock horizontal tangent at the top of the tub's arch. . . . honestly, I did that on the drivers side. the other side was pre-sawzall, and well . . .let's just say that it ain't purdy but it clears :eek:

what can i say - the ass drags, the front invariably lifts a tire, and the rear tires rub the top of the wells . . . but i get through, and it makes me smile. that's all i care about. a smart right foot gives it an extremely high stealth factor.

i've practiced balancing the truck out on fire roads, running up granite walls on the right corner until i can get the truck to teeter totter by shifting my weight inside the cab, and have looked for other semi-safe obstacles to explore the trucks stock limits.

i was always a fan of street car sleepers - you know the 2 door fairmont w/ a 460 under the hood, or a slightly tatty looking SVO 4-banger stang with a strut-brace, subframe connectors and konis spanking the euro-trash out at the tracks. i kind of view my truck in the same way.

I say to each there own...Bodylift, sawzall or suspension. It's your call. I went with 2" springs and the RTE 2" bodylift. It works well for me and for those of you who say a bodylift looks shitty or doesn't function on a rover. Then your flat out wrong. I have over 10,000 miles (on and off highway)on my bodylift with no problems. I also included a poseur pic to show that a little welded metal to raise the bumper up works well.
http://bronko.classicbroncos.com/MeStag5.jpg
And yes I'm a newbie and I have alot to learn so flame away:flipoff2: