Remember my $240 Sammy?
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/View?u=1397965&a=14010262&p=55549001&Sequence=0&res=high

Well I think I'm going to get the stock motor from Attarco for $500 and then do Waggy Dana44's. Still do Sprung over stock YJ springs. What do you think???

You should ask Rudezuk what his 44's cost, it's going to cost ya.:D

How do you figure it's going to cost me? Pick and Pull has them all the time. Like $150 Front $90 Rear. Am I missing something?

gears? lockers? Rims?

Ok well yeah. But really will it be any more than to do that to the stock axles or Toy axles. fatkid made it sound like really pricy. What's your point fatkid?:)

i don't see where the wags would cost you anymore than toys either. that is unless 4.10's are enough gear for you. you'll just need gears and lockers. heck i would weld the rear and just put a locker in the front. the width of the wag axles is better in my opinion. stock wrangler springs will be fine but you will need a traction bar of some sort of anti-wrap bar for the rear. i also sugguest lengthening the wheelbase out to like 95-100". it takes some work but it will work good. just my op :D

Why don't you just ask Rudezuke what it cost?:rolleyes:

Originally posted by high5
i don't see where the wags would cost you anymore than toys either. that is unless 4.10's are enough gear for you. you'll just need gears and lockers. heck i would weld the rear and just put a locker in the front. the width of the wag axles is better in my opinion. stock wrangler springs will be fine but you will need a traction bar of some sort of anti-wrap bar for the rear. i also sugguest lengthening the wheelbase out to like 95-100". it takes some work but it will work good. just my op :D

4.10's first off aren't enough, and ya 44's are the way to go if width is what you want. I'm not sure about the drive shaft mods for the 44's but the Toy swap is cheap. But hey what do I know...:rolleyes:

i have done a d44 swap into a zuk, helped with another and like i said i don't see why it would be any more than a toy. infact it might be cheaper. from what i have seen r&p sets for toy axles are more than dana44's. i don't know what rudezuk spent but what is there to buy? gears, lockers, install kits, etc. that is it. what else? same between the two. drive shafts are easy. get a 2" d/shaft from the jyard that uses 1310 ujoints and use it. most have a larger slip yoke than the suzuki units and all you have to do is cut the fixed yoke out and add a sami yoke into the tube. use the 1310 on one end and the suzki on the other. there are other ways to do this and use a bigger joint the the sami one but this is the easy way. for steering we used his rro z-link and modified it with the rod end that fit the wag tie rod....but hey what do i know? :rolleyes:

Most of the time the guys who claim it's cheap are the guys who have connections. Someone practically giving you an axle is not realistic with what the average Joe is going to run into. I am working on doing the Toy axle swap and have been updating my webpage with the prices I paid for stuff as I go. From what I can see the swaps would be pretty close. I know the spools are cheaper for the 44, R& P's are pretty much a wash (mine were $159 before tax from a local shop, Superior's), both swaps need driveshaft mods, the Dana swap may need a more elaborate brake line solution (Toys are almost plug in). You'll need new rims either way. The steering solution can be cheap or expensive for either depending on what you want. You can save money by buying used, I tried, but everyone selling their axles/gears still had them on their truck and needed a few weeks to pull them. That should be a new rule for the classifieds, if it's not ready to be boxed, don't post it. Anyways I have over 2 grand into my Toy swap so IMO it's not a cheap swap by any means. I did manage to sell off my old stuff for roughly $900 so that helps, and I haven't sold my 2" BS Samurai rims yet so the final total will get lower. I'd love to see someone post the prices the paid for a D44 swap, be honest and I can post it on my webpage for comparison purposes. When people ask me which swap to do, I tell them to decide how wide they want/need their track width to be, that's how to chose.

Here is the parts cost for mine..if I can remember correctly, as it has been a little while since I did this...

Axles : $50
Gears, Lock-Rights, Bearings...: $700
Warn Full Floater Kit: $600
Brakes-Discs Front and rear, including calipers and lines: $400
Warn Hubs: $120
Labor to have gears installed: $400
New Stub Shafts, axle joints: $275
Front and rear 1350 Series pinion yokes: $180
Front Driveshaft and adapter: $650
Rear Shaft and adapter: $300
Crossover Steering, tie rod, draglink: $500
Toyota Power Steering: $400
10" Beadlocks, 35" Boggers: $1500
YJ Springs: FREE!
Rod Ends: $200
Misc. Metal, tubing, labor to have tubing threaded: $400

So far that is $6675, not including any taxes. I would figure at least another $2-500 minimum for unforseen stuff. Then you are gonna have to add up the $$ for all the new spare parts you are gonna have to carry.


:trooper: On a side note..I hope to have my 38x12.50 SXs on by the weekend :trooper:

Originally posted by high5
i have done a d44 swap into a zuk, helped with another and like i said i don't see why it would be any more than a toy. infact it might be cheaper. from what i have seen r&p sets for toy axles are more than dana44's. i don't know what rudezuk spent but what is there to buy? gears, lockers, install kits, etc. that is it. what else? same between the two. drive shafts are easy. get a 2" d/shaft from the jyard that uses 1310 ujoints and use it. most have a larger slip yoke than the suzuki units and all you have to do is cut the fixed yoke out and add a sami yoke into the tube. use the 1310 on one end and the suzki on the other. there are other ways to do this and use a bigger joint the the sami one but this is the easy way. for steering we used his rro z-link and modified it with the rod end that fit the wag tie rod....but hey what do i know? :rolleyes:

Sure there are cheaper and "easier" ways of doing it, and ya if you can fab it's even cheaper but come awnn. Why doesn't someone ask Rude what it cost.

(Long slow whistle), ok, so maybe the Toyota swap is relatively cheaper. You got a smoking deal on the axles but why did that front driveshaft cost so much?

Originally posted by orangezuk
Here is the parts cost for mine..if I can remember correctly, as it has been a little while since I did this...

Axles : $50
Gears, Lock-Rights, Bearings...: $700
Warn Full Floater Kit: $600
Brakes-Discs Front and rear, including calipers and lines: $400
Warn Hubs: $120
Labor to have gears installed: $400
New Stub Shafts, axle joints: $275
Front and rear 1350 Series pinion yokes: $180
Front Driveshaft and adapter: $650
Rear Shaft and adapter: $300
Crossover Steering, tie rod, draglink: $500
Toyota Power Steering: $400
10" Beadlocks, 35" Boggers: $1500
YJ Springs: FREE!
Rod Ends: $200
Misc. Metal, tubing, labor to have tubing threaded: $400



There are a couple items on your list that probably shouldn't be counted, the P/S, tires (keep the rims), the full floater kit and the cost for the discs in the rear. All of the items are desirable but not really required to do the swap. Although some would argue the P/S (I would too, had mine unhooked yesterday and it was hell to try and turn the 33X15.50's). So Rude, Fatkid is just dying for someone to ask you how much did it cost, so here goes. Rudezuk, how much did your 44 swap run you? :)

Originally posted by PROJSAM
(Long slow whistle), ok, so maybe the Toyota swap is relatively cheaper. You got a smoking deal on the axles but why did that front driveshaft cost so much?

I did my swap 2 years ago (I think..), back when long travel driveshafts were not as cheap as they are now. The shaft was like $400, and the adapter to the zuk tcase was roughly $200 (it had to be CNC'd...)

I got out fairly cheap, as I did all my own labor...

:trooper:

Originally posted by orangezuk
Here is the parts cost for mine..if I can remember correctly, as it has been a little while since I did this...

Axles : $50
Gears, Lock-Rights, Bearings...: $700
Warn Full Floater Kit: $600
Brakes-Discs Front and rear, including calipers and lines: $400
Warn Hubs: $120
Labor to have gears installed: $400
New Stub Shafts, axle joints: $275
Front and rear 1350 Series pinion yokes: $180
Front Driveshaft and adapter: $650
Rear Shaft and adapter: $300
Crossover Steering, tie rod, draglink: $500
Toyota Power Steering: $400
10" Beadlocks, 35" Boggers: $1500
YJ Springs: FREE!
Rod Ends: $200
Misc. Metal, tubing, labor to have tubing threaded: $400

So far that is $6675, not including any taxes. I would figure at least another $2-500 minimum for unforseen stuff. Then you are gonna have to add up the $$ for all the new spare parts you are gonna have to carry.


:trooper: On a side note..I hope to have my 38x12.50 SXs on by the weekend :trooper:

wow!!! that's alot more than we have spent!. you have alot of good stuff but you can knock ALOT of your expenses down. i think on the ones we have done we have spent around $1500 and that is doing a yj swap at the same time.

Cherokee axles $200
F+R drivelines from gloeco(Blazer CV- 6 in slip) $600
Adapters to sammy case $free (I'm a machinist and they were easy)
F+R Detroits, 5.38s and bearings $1600
Labor $450
Toyota P/S and crossover w/ 3/4 heims $150
Rear brake lines and metric adapter $50
Front lines $free (3/8 banjos are a few thou diff from the metric lines and will bolt on!)
Wheels were $40 (got lucky)
So I'm in $3090 plus maybe $250 for incidentals... I did it in stages so it was pretty easy on my pocket, plus I sold my sammy stuff for $600 and wheels for another $300 so it ran a little over $2000. Which is comparable to gearing and locking the sammy...And a whole lot stronger...

:)

Originally posted by fatkid
Why don't you just ask Rudezuke what it cost?:rolleyes:
Well sorry, i was out of town for a couple days...
Waggys are the way to go....For the rear...For the front get a 44 housing....But if you want to do a lot of grinding and playing with the passanger spring pad...then get a front waggy...
As for gears, 5.38 is the way to go, i also went ARB's...If you are going to take the time to do it, do it right the first time...Dont weld your shit up....You ruin it!
By the time you are done you have this
Gears....200 each
lockers...600 each
High steeri.....800
rear disk....300
drivelines.....600
front and rear waggy....300 with flat top nuckles
front chevy housing....100
cut housing....300
new front axles....200
brakes for the front and rear.....200 (rotors,cal)
Brake lines.....150(stainless extended with adapters)
ARB comp....200



There may be a couple other things...but all in all i think you are looking close to 3500.....this is done right, and you wont have to do it again....and trust me well worth it!!!

i've seen welded rears hold up to v8 power so i doubt a little 1.3 or 1.6 will hurt a welded d44. yes they are weak if not done properly but a properly welded d44 wil holdup to anything a 1.3 or 1.6 will give it. putting a perch on a wagoneer housing does not take that much (i've done 2 wagoneer fronts and two scout fronts). and it sure doesn't take so much that i would spend $100 for a chevy housing and another $300 to narrow it. just my op.

If you use a Scout 44 do you have to turn the knuckles?

if you want a good pinion angle along with proper caster...yes:D

I did it on my Scout, it's a PITA. Seems like there would be some better choices for front axles.

Originally posted by high5
i've seen welded rears hold up to v8 power so i doubt a little 1.3 or 1.6 will hurt a welded d44. yes they are weak if not done properly but a properly welded d44 wil holdup to anything a 1.3 or 1.6 will give it. putting a perch on a wagoneer housing does not take that much (i've done 2 wagoneer fronts and two scout fronts). and it sure doesn't take so much that i would spend $100 for a chevy housing and another $300 to narrow it. just my op.

It also depends on how high your lift goes....I went 2.5" wagoneer springs to clear the 37's, that front dline angle was bad....so when they cut the housing down for me....you get to pick what you want your nuckles set at!!!'
As for the gears..do what you want...but i want to do it right the first time...

Originally posted by fatkid
I did it on my Scout, it's a PITA. Seems like there would be some better choices for front axles.

There is... Toyota. You take just as much time to do the swap, and you get to change blown birfield joints, so you can rationalize that it's just like stock.

At least the brakes plug in. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Yota_San


There is... Toyota. You take just as much time to do the swap, and you get to change blown birfield joints, so you can rationalize that it's just like stock.

At least the brakes plug in. :rolleyes:

I heard from someone who did the 44 swap that a new master cylinder would be nice, brakes supposedly were real spongy with the small Samurai master cylinder.

I was talking about how, compared to the D44, the Toy axles have brakes that are prtty much plug-in. :D

Ooh! I broke another birfield joint! Goody!

i sense a certain amount of hostility towards birfield joints.
tell me about your mother, did she beat you with them as a child?:flipoff2:

No. She used a drivers side halfshaft for a Toyota IFS. That's why I'm TRYING to get Toyota birfield joints under my rig.

I figure that by the time I'm done and start breaking them, Randy's should be up and rolling with the birfield eliminator kit. Maybe the third comany to try them will be the charm. :rolleyes:

good luck....:beer:

i gaurantee that i will spend way less than a grand on my axle swap. it will have 5.29s and a lockrite in the front and a welded rear. i am using fj60s so the brakes are easy and the drive shafts will just be toys. it will be a home made high steer and drum rear end but it will be way better than a 44 in the rear and comparable to a 44 front. mike

Originally posted by PROJSAM


I heard from someone who did the 44 swap that a new master cylinder would be nice, brakes supposedly were real spongy with the small Samurai master cylinder.

the two i know say that with the stock sami master you will loose alot of the brake pedal feel but that the brakes work great. i have driven both and it is true. the pedal doesn't have much feel but the brakes actually work awsome.

fatkid, yeah grinding all of the weld out of the knuckle to free it up for turning takes a while but it's not too bad. the first one i ever did was a real pain because i didn't know to look for the ring that shows you have ground down far enough. i have done 2 scout 44's now and my current dana60 and it gets easier. it's still a pain in the a$$ but worth the effort.

Originally posted by RudeZuk


It also depends on how high your lift goes....I went 2.5" wagoneer springs to clear the 37's, that front dline angle was bad....so when they cut the housing down for me....you get to pick what you want your nuckles set at!!!'
As for the gears..do what you want...but i want to do it right the first time...

i cut housings down my self and set caster into the knuckle myself too so i get to choose if i wish too!!! :D i wasn't knocking your choice of arb's. there are reasons to run them. i personally don't like them because i have seen too many fail when you need them. plus instead of spending $1400 on lockers and aircompressor i'd weld the rear or put a spool in it and slap a lockright in the front. that $1000+ extra sure would come in nice for a winch, onboard air, welder etc. now for the lunchbox locker i only say i recomend these with trucks running 4cylinders. i have seen these fail way too often on rigs . me i like full detroits or spools. hey don't take offense to my post i'm just stating you can do a 44 swap alot cheaper than you did. i like your rig and you got some sweet toys on it but if someone wants a good strong set of d44's you don't have to spend that kind of $$$ that is all i am trying to prove here.

I run Waggy 44's and didn't do anything but weld up some brackets for the Ford radius arms. I also used a Dodge master for the brakes. Yes the stock one couldn't handle the extra volume.

Why Scout instead of Waggy?

Hey what are the width of the Waggy Dana 44's? Are they "full width"?
And thanks for all the great info. I still will go with this conversion. I'm just running marginal lift so I don't think the driveshaft angle will be to bad. This will be the total budget rig. Nothing special just a beater. So I think I can do it for cheap. Not to dis-creadit anyone but we will see...

Thanks again, Phil

Let me state that a different way, it's not a pain it's just that I think it's more work than you need to do. Why not select a different axle? But tell ya the truth I have Toys so I never even bothered with looking at 44's