404 Portals In 81 Toyota?

[TSLBOGGGER]

i am very interested in replacing my toy axles for portals.but be fore i do this venture i will need your guys help and advice. i have a few questions that i need answered first. ideally i plan on running two front axles for four wheel steering. i am running coils in the rear and leafs in the front, with this i know that i am going to have to build a traction bar for the front. i will do hydraulic steering in the rear and hydraulic assist in the front. as for the offset of the diffs on the 404 axles am i going to be able to use my current drivetrain of 4.3 v6 th700r and toyota case.i also do not want it to be too tall and i believe i will have to make a custom oil pan for clearence issues.i also would like to get these axles as narrow as possible without shortening them, is there any kind of hub flip or something like that which can be done,is there a place where i can get shorter axlshafts if i do plan on narrowing them?one of my biggest questions are these axles really street worthy? i did the calculations and i came up with the engine will be in the 3000 rpm range at about 60 mph with 39s. i have heard they have oiling issues. i really do not want to make this truck a trailer queen.would i be better off with volvo axles? how do they compare price wise to unimog.

any info would be greatly appreciated...and hopefully you guys will not tell me this is a pipe dream

sean

[coachgeo]

Originally posted by TSLBOGGGER
i am very interested in replacing my toy axles for portals.but be fore i do this venture i will need your guys help and advice. ........ sean

some of your answers on the Mog axle questions can be found here.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143224.

As specific of info your asking for your direct project I suspect you need to talk to Rob at Exaxt or Daniel at Killeraxle.. maybe both to see whom u find to be the best person to spend your $$ with.

As to trailer queen. If you run open highway speeds often you "mayyyyy" run into oiling problems but according to Wolfgang (the german side of killeraxle) this is not an issue.

Price wise.. I think volvo cost are rising cause the NOS suply is dwindelling. Mog price was down dont know if it still is, but it will risie cause its NOS supply will dwindell as well.

[RUFF]

Biggest obstical you will have with running the MOG axles is that the diff centre on the mog axle is offset to the drivers side on the front so you wont be able to run the standard housing if you want to run the toyota Tcase. The volvo axle centre is on the passenger side.

[cruiserrg]

As Ruff mentioned offset is going to be the largest of many hurdles. You will have to change the diff drop on a mog housing and make it a passenger side drop to match the yota t-case. The is no way to reduce the WMS to WMS without narrowing the housing and thus shortening the inner axle shafts. Also streetability with a MOG setup running full hyrdo steering and rear steer would be scary if you didn't manually pin the rear and only run hydro assist up front.

Here is an idea though... When I first started looking at going with MOGs, I thought about adapting the MOG portals and knuckles onto Toyots Pickup axles and just flipping the diffs. You would have to have custom inners made to do this, but could be done.

The other thing to worry about is wheels and brakes, searching will bring up several topics on those subjects.

Good Luck.

[Tass]

I looked into getting the mog diff switched to the pass side so I could use my Yota t-case. It's cheaper to use a flipped Dana 300 with one of OTT's adapters so I went that route.
My axles are narrowed 7.5".

[Scout Dude]

Originally posted by Tass
I looked into getting the mog diff switched to the pass side so I could use my Yota t-case. It's cheaper to use a flipped Dana 300 with one of OTT's adapters so I went that route.
My axles are narrowed 7.5".

I dunno how you can say it's cheaper...My pass front cost me $400 additional above the narrowing...I thought flip kits were in the $600 range?:confused:

[ryeguy]

Originally posted by Joel K®


I dunno how you can say it's cheaper...My pass front cost me $400 additional above the narrowing...I thought flip kits were in the $600 range?:confused:

Hi Joel, how's your project coming along? And Tass, good to see some pics (finally) of your Toy.

Contrary to what Wolfgang once told me, it is definitely possible to swap the tubes on a Mog axle. We've done quite a few now, and they work out well. We do retain the double wall housing design, too. Joel, your price is correct but doesn't include the new axle shaft for the (new) short side. Everybody is on a budget, so you do what you can with what you have. And there's a few guys, including us, that can do custom axles shafts for you.

For a Toyota hybrid, a problem is the availablility of gear ratios, isn't 3.9:1 the fastest possible for the mini-truck? That will put you at a final ratio of 8.3:1 in the diff's. Then again, I've got one customer going to 9:1! The housing also needs a fair bit of trussing. But you can get to a better offset or narrower overall width with a Toy housing, due to the carrier design.

Are the axles streetworthy? My Blazer is licensed and I have no issues driving it at highway speeds.

--Rob
www.exaxt.ca

[bigtoyfreak]

For a Toyota hybrid, a problem is the availablility of gear ratios, isn't 3.9:1 the fastest possible for the mini-truck?

Just an FYI, the 4spd 2wd toys used an 8" ring gear (5spds used 7.5") and had a 3.14 ratio, strange but true. I had an '84 and an '86, both were 4spd 22R, and they both had that ratio. I think I have one in the garage still.

[Tass]

Originally posted by Joel K®


I dunno how you can say it's cheaper...My pass front cost me $400 additional above the narrowing...I thought flip kits were in the $600 range?:confused:

Maybe I should say that it was the cheaper way to go for me. It cost me $200 to go from dual toy cases to an OTT adapter and Dana 300. I have about $20 into the flip kit for the 300 :D Plus you get fwd low witht the 300 case.

Tass

[RockinWagin]

Originally posted by Tass


Maybe I should say that it was the cheaper way to go for me. It cost me $200 to go from dual toy cases to an OTT adapter and Dana 300. I have about $20 into the flip kit for the 300 :D Plus you get fwd low witht the 300 case.

Tass

I will be taking a different approach. 350/sm465 or th400 (2wh. drive version) + divorced ford NP205. I like the flipped Dana 300 idea with the OTT adapter as the second best option.

Hey Ryeguy, I have sent you a PM.

[Scout Dude]

Maybe I should say that it was the cheaper way to go for me. It cost me $200 to go from dual toy cases to an OTT adapter and Dana 300. I have about $20 into the flip kit for the 300 :D Plus you get fwd low witht the 300 case.

Tass

Well, I don't know how you got the flip kit so cheap, but that makes sense to do it that way then...I've got a 300 too, but I just added a clocking ring and mated a Dodge 727 case to an AMC 727 tailshaft to bolt the 300 on with now adapters.

Joel, your price is correct but doesn't include the new axle shaft for the (new) short side. Everybody is on a budget, so you do what you can with what you have. And there's a few guys, including us, that can do custom axles shafts for you.

I didn't forget about the new shaft cost..If I were to narrow it but leave the diff on the driver's side, I'd still need a new shaft, so, in essence, the pass side part only cost me $400;) ....and it would cost ME:mad: :flipoff2: $600-650ish for a flip kit!:eek: :)

[Tass]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joel K®
[B]

Well, I don't know how you got the flip kit so cheap,


There's really not much to it. Some 3/4" by 1 1/2" rectangular tubing, two pieces of 5/8" ID pipe and a piece of 1"x1" angle. I reused the shift forks by redrilling the rails. I'll try to get some better pics but here's one that I have.

[cruiserrg]

Tass,

I'd really like to see details on how you put a 300 flip kit together. I have not looked at a 300 because of the $ of the kits. PLEASE more pics and details.

[Scout Dude]

Originally posted by Tass
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joel K®
[B]

Well, I don't know how you got the flip kit so cheap,


There's really not much to it. Some 3/4" by 1 1/2" rectangular tubing, two pieces of 5/8" ID pipe and a piece of 1"x1" angle. I reused the shift forks by redrilling the rails. I'll try to get some better pics but here's one that I have.

Dude, that is bad ass!...

[RockinWagin]

Originally posted by cruiserrg
Tass,

I'd really like to see details on how you put a 300 flip kit together. I have not looked at a 300 because of the $ of the kits. PLEASE more pics and details.

Second the motion. More please.

[Mograi]

I was gonna run twin Toy t-cases aswell.

Wolfgang at Killeraxels flipped the diff for me on a 404 using a 406 axel casings.

It's the same diameter as a standard Killeraxel just mirrored so it takes all the killeraxel components just on the opposite sides.

During the build I decided to go for a stronger t-case like the Atlas and Wolfgang persuaded me to have the diff on the right

I bought the flipped axel casing to keep just incase I ever need it.

Just the case but with all that work cost about $500

I've since fitted rear steer on one axle and I have to say that Wolfgangs work is first class. Dude really knows his stuff.

As for high speed.... A disc brake conversion improves the cooling of the hubs so the bearings dont melt at higher speeds.
You also get some monster callipers in their kit. 404axzlSpch

Joe
www.I love my killer-axels.com

[TSLBOGGGER]

hmmm.... what is the difference from a 404 axle and a 406 and if everything is the same except where the differential is located that might be the route to take. i will have to get in touch with wolfgang and ask him some more questions.

[Tass]

Originally posted by RockinWagin


Second the motion. More please.

Sorry for not getting back sooner, my cat spilled my drink and wrecked the keyboard, I was unable to type for a few days :rolleyes:

Anyway, my flip kit isn't quite dialed in yet. I'm still trying to get the shifting just right. Once it's figured out I'll make a new post explaining exactly what I did.

Tass

[Rabid Rhino]

Sean

Not sure on the 406 cases - think they maybe slightly narrower involving less work and the diff in the front axel maybe centred.

I do know they're rare cos Wolfgang had A PAIR but junked one in the process of doing my axel, litterally ruining HIS ONLY pair of 406 axles unless he can find one spare front to replace the one he cut up for me.

Kudos to the guy for going that bit further to help out a client.

Joe

[bigdude]

Originally posted by Tass

Anyway, my flip kit isn't quite dialed in yet. I'm still trying to get the shifting just right. Once it's figured out I'll make a new post explaining exactly what I did.

Tass

I would also appreciate this info. Perhaps you could throw it up in gen 4x4 as I'm sure many would be interested.

[coachgeo]

here is a flip kit for sale

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=153782

[XJUSA]

Originally posted by TSLBOGGGER
i am very interested in replacing my toy axles for portals.

any info would be greatly appreciated...and hopefully you guys will not tell me this is a pipe dream

sean

This link to a project !
I think he is on the board here !

Take a look here (http://webpages.charter.net/cruiserrg/)