Need help here. I have a Rear 44 out of a wagoneer w/30 spline axles. I want to change it to full floating but I have 2 questions I can't get past.

1. The inner housing flanges are a 4 bolt pattern. Are there any spindles that will mount to this pattern.

2. Will the 30 spline axles fit through the spindles. I will want to run 1 piece floaters and therefore the splines do have to go through the spindles.

Anyone done anything like this with this housing?

I don't know, but if you ever find one, that also has the 6x5.5 pattern let me know. probably would work the same for a AMC20, short the small spline difference to deal with.

I am looking into it myself.

I want to see if I can use the front 44 spindle and hub. I know warn makes a spindle, but I haven't gotten a straight answer out of them on whether they sell a 6X5.5 hub or not.

Then, it is just custom axles.

Lemme know if you find out anything

themaddhatter

I think the 30-spline shaft will fit through the spindle. My caliper says the 19-spline pattern on a front D44 shaft is a hair bigger than the 30-spline pattern on the inside end.

It would probably be a good idea to remove the Torrington bearing from inside the spindle, for a little extra clearance.

Anyone got any experience with this?

Chris (considering doing the same thing with a Ford 9")

I've looked into this quite a bit in the past and the last time I checked Warn did NOT and was NOT planning to make a spindle for the Wagoneer 44. It has a larger bearing and bolt pattern then a Scout 2 housing which they do make a spindle for. I drew up and adapter to bolt to the Wag flange that you could bolt a 6 bolt front 44 spindle to. I found a guy with a CNC mill that could crank them out but it'd be hella money unless I wanted to make a lot. There is a guy locally that machined an adapter to bolt a Toyota spindle to the Wag flange so he could have 30 spline outers. As far as I know the only way to full float a Wag 44 is to have a custom adapter machined up. I can try to find the drawing I made, the measurements might help anyone who's looking to attempt this. It would be pretty easy except for the actual mounting of the adapter to the axle flange. There isn't a lot of room for a bolt there so welding might be the only option. I might be interested in rekindling this project if enough people are interested that I don't loose money in the deal.
Travis

Alright, since we kinda had the same idea here, let's keep this thread rolling

Called Warn, and talked to "Ron". He said the following

1: No, they do not carry anything for FSJ applications
2: They have NEVER had success with this
3: The Dana 44 spindle they carry will throw off the wheel offset (blah, blah blah)
4: The spindles are different
5: Just leave it alone or swap something else

I really don't find this to be an acceptable answer myself. It would be interesting to get someone here to post a skematic of the flange surface on a Dana 44 (in an application used by Warn), and a FSJ 44 flange......

Probably the same.

For the wheel offset, I don't understand WTF he is talking about, seeing as it doesn't tragically change the offset on a CJ 44, right?

So, the 44 spindle might be different (he first said that it uses the same bearings as a 44 front) but it might not.

If someone has a warn 44 rear spindle dimensions, or could compare them to a stock 44 front spindle, it would be interesting to see if there is in fact a difference.

This guy seemed to discourage this, but I am unsure if this is because they don't want stupid people trying this or what.

So, anyone have access to these components, say at a part store or a warehouse. Measure this stuff up, and see what's what.

themaddhatter

Originally posted by themaddhatter


I really don't find this to be an acceptable answer myself. It would be interesting to get someone here to post a skematic of the flange surface on a Dana 44 (in an application used by Warn), and a FSJ 44 flange......

Probably the same.



Sorry bro there is in fact difference between the Scout 2 Dana 44 flange that Warn does carry and the wag 44 flange. I've put 2 bare housings next to each other and busted out the calipers. I'll try to find my old drawings but I've moved several times since I gave up on this project so no guarentees. I still have a bare wag and a bare scout 2 housing so I could measure them again but it could be a while since I'm moving garages again. The only other option I can think of if you are dead set on going the $$$ Warn route is to to check out the flange on a '86 CJ rear Dana 44 axle. Bt I know for a fact that the wag flange does not match the early CJ 44s, or the SCout 2 44s.
Travis

I would also be very interested in full floating my rear Waggy D44.

Man, there are a LOT of dudes out there running this axle assembly. You'd think the market would be there for Warn (or SOMEBODY) to develop a FF kit for it...

Jake

so, if the rear 44 flanges are different, then how hard would it be to make a plate and use a FRONT 44 spindle (they are the same for Chevy and FSJ I believe).

So, the rear 44 flange COULD be our issue here.

The plot thickens....

I have an email into Tri County Gear, and see what they have to say about this......

themaddhatter

You could replace the flanges with these 6 bolt flanges.

http://www.r-p4wd.com/java/product_pages/randp7.htm

That should allow you to bolt up a either a Warn spindle or a front D44 spindle. Then all you would need is custom axle shafts. Kinda spendy but it should work.

so with that, you would grind the welds off the current flange, knock em off, and weld them on?

That would be sweet. Especially for a narrowed app (like a CJ5 or something).

Hmmm.

Excellent. Thanks bud :D

themaddhatter

And since we're going to all this trouble--this would be a good time to add rear disc brakes-- anyone now if there is an OEM rear disc application that would bolt up to these flanges?

Jake

Well what I was figuring on doing is cutting a piece of plate that has the same pattern as these flanges, and will allow me to bolt up a set of standard GM calipers, and run a GW hub and disc.

Maybe adapt the actual disc bracket from a 44 front for this too.

That will be discerned at a future point :D

themaddhatter

Originally posted by themaddhatter
Maybe adapt the actual disc bracket from a 44 front for this too.

That will be discerned at a future point :D

themaddhatter

That would certainly simplify things. :D however, my guess is that the offset would be a bit off... When you get this thing built and figure out what fits, make sure you post it so the rest of us don't have to, uh...reinvent the wheel (or the caliper bracket, as it were ;) )

Thanks,

Jake

Yeah that is a definate.

I don't know what my timeframe will be on this.

I WILL be trying this, but it will be a little ways away

This winter definately.

themaddhatter

Why not just line up a front d-44 spindle and weld it in place rather than try to bolt an adaptor in? Seems like it would be soooo much easier. I've got an offset waggy axle I'm getting ready to do this to. then just weld the bracket for the caliper to the axle.

Am I on crack or is this not easier?

Andy

yeah, so long as everything is squared up and centered.

I would think that the centering of the flange would be a crucial thing, seeing as the axle would get chewed up if there was an angle in there.

By using a new flange with a seat that centers it on the tube, you wouldn't have to be concerned with that. As long as it is perpendicular to the plane of the tube.

just my .02

I don't know about the offset ones, but the stock Waggy rear 44 with the centered pig is just barely wide enough to accommodate a YJ.

Do you think wide tires would still clear the springs without the extra width?

I've never measured...

also... I'm not entirely sure the spindle alone would give you enough to weld to... Just a thought.

You know i have been thinking about this..

The only option I can see is to have the ends of the tubes cut and adapterd for what ever flange that will adapt to the warn kit..

Kevin, I would contact Rear end speciltys and find out if they can recommend something. maybe they can shed some light on how to change that flange..

Steve

My friend did this on a 9" rear axle. He made some custom flanges like the ones from R&P 4WD parts. He cut the stock flanges off the 9" and tossed them. Then he welded his custom flanges with the 6 bolt pattern onto the ends of the tube. Then you can take stock Jeep or Chevy 44 spindles, caliper brackets, calipers, rotors and hubs and bolt them all on. Then either use drive flanges or locking hubs to finish it off.

I will be making a 1/4 inch adapter that will accept the 6 bolt spindles. This will get me my floater setup. All that will be required on the housing is drilling through the existing axle flange to make the adapter go all the way through. The adapter will work as the template for this. The spindle will bolt through the spindle adapter and then the flange. Now that will get me my full floater setup with 30 splines, but I want 30 spline 1 piece full floaters which means I can't use the internal hub style I have to use the external bolt on style hubs, however the spindle associated with this won't accept the 30 splines. I may have to bore the spindle to accept the 30 splines or just run 19 splines and run my 1 piece floater setup. Any last suggestions on how to get the whole enchilada. If anyone wants these adapters just PM me. I will be doing them very soon.

Kevin

pigpen,
So if I understand correctly, you are using 1/4" steel to adapt the four bolt pattern to 6 bolts. How much of the six bolt pattern hits the four bolt flange? Are you welding your adapter to the flange?How are you keeping the whole thing centered? Does the spindle go where the bearing used to go or does it need to be turned down. As far as hubs go, just get yourself a set of warn hubs made for rear full floating kits. They are internal and 30 spline. I think they will fit in place of regular D44 internal hubs. I have a set on my warn converted rear, I'll check and see if they will fit. If not, get the hubs (not the lockouts) that go with GM 10 bolt FF kit. Those would be 6 lug and would work with the 30 spline hubs.

he's gonna use a flanged floater though, can't use internal locking hubs or there assemblies

None of the bolts match exactly. Haven't really looked to see if any overlap. Doesn't matter much. Haven't decided yet if I will weld the adapter up or just bolt it between spindle and housing. The race from the housing will be removed, the adapter will most likely have something that fits inside the housing to center it, but it depends on the spindles. I think I will have to use 60 spindles and hubs. I am looking into how to convert this to 5 or 6 lug. Once I know that I can do that and how I will layout the adapter. Like he said, for my application, I need external locking hub style hubs so that I can run a 1 piece flanged axle. This is just my choice of axle setups. With the adapter your idea will work, I have thought of that but I want the best of all worlds (for my 44 that is). floater/1 piece/30 spline.

I see what you are doing now, you basically want flanged full floater setup like on a 3/4 ton truck. Is there any reason you don't just swap in a FF D60 or 14 bolt and not worry about converting the D44? I know you don't want to go 8 lug, but it would be easy to convert you front end to match.

The 30 spline shaft won't fit through the CJ Dana 30 spindle? There's a bearing in there, did you try it with the bearing knocked out? You could use the spindle and hub from and old Chevy or Ford 3/4 ton D44 front with the bolt on hub, but then you're right back at 8 lug. The only other thing I could think of would be to use front D44 internally splined hubs with slugs and either find some way to bolt your flanges to the slugs or maybe you could cut splines on the flanges so they would slide into the hubs. I saw a design like that on a heavy truck axle once. If it works for them...

Pigpen:

Because the existing flange isn't desinged to support the weight of the vehicle, I would think welding would be the better option for attaching your 6-bolt adapter to the existing axle flange. Otherwise you're only going to have 4 little bolts supporting that corner of the vehicle.

Jake

I would go to 6 bolts and make my housing accept the spindle pattern not the other way around. I don't think either way would have a problem but I am planning to locate the adapter/spindle inside the housing as well. This will hold the weight the same as the existing design.

Originally posted by pigpen62
This will hold the weight the same as the existing design.

What I was trying to say is that, with the existing design, the mounting flange doesn't carry any of the vehicle's weight. All the weight of the vehicle is bore by the axle, the outer bearing assembly, and the end of the axle tube (outside the spring perch).

The existing design just holds the brakes and keeps the axle from coming out when it breaks.

My concern was that the existing bearing retainer/brake mount flange wouldn't be up to supporting the weight of the vehicle... I don't know if this is the case, I'm just playing Devil's advocate here.

Jake

I think you're right, Jake. Since there's already fabrication going on anyway, I reckon it's better to chuck some steel in a lathe and turn out a couple of these puppies:
http://www.r-p4wd.com/java/product_pages/randp7.htm

With new flanges you get loads more strength, plus you can design in a seal bore, a recess for the spindle lip, and whetever else you want.

Chris

Right, now the question becomes how to get a 30 spline 1.31 inch axle shaft through an OEM d-44 spindle. Other than using a spendy WARN spindle unit.

I'm not so keen on boring out my spindles, even though it would be a simple matter to put a boring head through one. How much needs to be removed?

Andy