Hey, guys, what's up? Got a couple of questions for ya. I'm selling my bomb-proof IH Scout on the BB in order to build my new toy. A Sidekick on mono-links, coils in the rear and fiberglass leafsprings up front, and 37 inch Goodyears. I'll be using Dana 44s from a 76 Cherokee, a TBI 4.3, Turbo 350 trans, and a Toyota transfer case. The only thing I don't have is the Sidekick!!:smokin: But they are popping up cheap enough.
My question is this. My Scout weighed in at around #7000. I had nothing but traction. Hence the 60 and the 14 bolt. I plan on my Zuk sitting under 2800 pounds. I am worried about a lack of traction. I am not used to seeing a tire spin, and am worried about it being a problem. Are my concerns justified?

you got a piece of tin that says Suzuki,you want to tack a bunch of yankee parts to,leaving out anything suzuki,and then want to know(will I like a suzuki) ..............you are lost.....:rolleyes: :D...look up Scwafish

ya what he said :smokin: :D :smokin: :beer: :beer:

I forgot WELCOME:flipoff2:

Yeah, you might spin a tire evey once in a while, but you'll squeeze into places that your Scout neer would. I love my Sammi. Of course, I just went wheeling for the second time. We drove up a sluice that narrowed down to about 3" on either side of the vehicle. A Jeep would have taken body damage going through, a Scout would have torn body panels. I'm going back out next Saturday to get pics. Yes, you will love your Sammi.

Oh, yeah, newbie, :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

whats a scwafish?

I believe that you will like your suzuki. I LOVE mine

Ya whats with puttin all that yankee stuff in the suzuki anyways what you

:smokin:
boy

experience a samuari befor build an abortion,check out some of Scwafish's posts...............:D

I used to have a built Scout too...35 spline 60 36s etc, but the fat pig was just too FAT, after years of squeezing it through stuff that wasnt even close to rubbing Bobaki and Tuskers rigs it was time to go small. Especially after my buddy Victor, who also had a Scout, crossed over and loved his zuk.

I think what bobaki is trying to tell you is that your missing the whole point of going jap...its the light weight, lack of power, and the engineering (good electrics, EFI, etc) that make these so damn durable. Our club used to be all yankee rigs except bobaki, now NO ONE in the clubs main wheeler is yankee, they are either all zuks or toy mini or a mix (me).

All the yankee stuff does is make it too heavy, or too powerful, or not as dependable. Late model Jap stuff just plain works, when was the last time you saw a broken down Camry or Civic??? I'm combining my favorite parts of a zuk (skinny tub and light motor) with toy mini tranny, tcs, and axles. Hopefully it will be the best of both worlds.

Good luck, if nothing else you'll really appreciate how much easier these are too work on....the parts are light and they actually fit!

:smokin:

Jap crap good crap....................:D

Hey Jappy, found your AFCO catalog in the shop under some drawings, I'll drop it in the mail.

that where I last saw it, thanks

All the yankee stuff does is make it too heavy, or too powerful, or not as dependable. Late model Jap stuff just plain works, when was the last time you saw a broken down Camry or Civic??? I'm combining my favorite parts of a zuk (skinny tub and light motor) with toy mini tranny, tc

actually I have 2 honda's civic's with blown motors at my place. one is even four wheel drive. I am pretty hard on stuff though.

If you have to ask I don't think so, think of every thing you would like to change about your Scout and I'll bet it'll be something close to a Zuk or a Toyota. Pic one, what else is there.:flipoff2:

The reaon for all of the Yankee stuff is simple. For one, we don't have shiny happy, smooth rocks up here. We have granite and chalkstone boulders under two feet of slime and gumbo. Gears don't always cut it here. You HAVE to have a little power. Have you ever seen a Birfeild under full power barely able to spin a tire due to the muck, catch a rock and transfer all the torque that the little motor DOES put out and transfer it into traction in a split second? Snap. Crackle. And POP!:nuke:
And you know what? At this point in my wheeling carreer(about 10 years or so) I don't really care what is stamped on the back of my parts. As long as they work. If you're going to call yourselves purists, then you better be running Jap oil, Jap gas, driving on Jap tires, and drinking Jap soda.
And being a "newbie" only means I've been too busy wheeling to sit in here in a chair poking at these stupid buttons. I'll be in the garage. :flipoff2:

Twisted, in no way am I a purist. My "zuk" is a total mix of pieces, just 95% jap...cause it works. I'm with you on birfs, which is why I have D44 knuckles on my toy axle. Lots of guys on this bbs run waggy D44s, or other yankee axles, because they DO work and add to the strength and width.

Its the 4.3 and other stuff that I wasnt crazy about. BTW- a little zuk motor will light em up if you have to, and sending all that hp (hampster power) through a D44 is like running a something stronger than a 60 in the corncob. I watched the Snipe spin 38s at Montrose ALL weekend running a 1.3 through D44s with 5.89s...nothing broke. Why??? It had enough power to do the job, but not enough to hurt it self and it is light.

Finally the Snipe which is a zuk buggy just got either 1st or 2nd at the Warn RCC, zuk buggies got 1st and 4th at CALROCS, and zuk buggys placed in the top 10 of ARCA for the year. They can do it! Not trying to bag on you at all, its just that if your gonna do it think about keeping it light, and gutless, and you'll really maximize the benefits of going zuk.

I don't recall asking you to come in from the garage:flipoff2: can't we all just get along:rolleyes:

some of us don't have to spend quite as much time in garage cause ........IT AINT BROKE.....:D

I totally understand what you are saying. However, here's my deal. The only two Sidekicks I have located are both under $500. Neither one runs and I picked up the 4.3 for a couple hundred with 75,000 miles on it. It doesn't have 500 horse, and doesn't weigh THAT much more than the Zuk motor. I built a traction bar for a guy(the reason I'm in the garage, Bobaki), for a rebuilt auto 350, built a roof rack for a Toyota driver for the transfer case, and paid $100 for the 76 Cherokee which also came with a Dana 300 and an AMC 401. I just made more money than I spent. I also happen to cosider myself 1 part wheeler and 1 part hot rodder, hence the 'Cuda paint scheme on the Binder. Speed is a need. I run all of the trails and all of the hot rod poker runs. I am not going to miss out on any fun.

o yeah, Zukis rule..........:flipoff2:

CUDA??????????????????:rolleyes:

Yeah, as in Hemi 'Cuda. As in 600 horses of Chrysler power. Read a magazine, man!

Ya know, all I wanted to know is if you guys thought the weight was satisfactory for traction. I am scared of building a truck that is so light it blows off a rock face. I am beginning to regret selling my Binder already. At least they understood the basics of building a piece of equipment for function, not because " It's all Jap."
I haven't build a bad truck yet, and my Sidekick will be the best yet. I just wanted to see how helpful you guys could be. And now I know. Thanks.

Hmmm ... a hemi engine in a Suzuki :confused:
I'll be right back ...

ya think it might be nose heavy? Hmmmm. Somebody try it!

Well, I did it in a Scout II and it's about 600 pounds heavier over the front axle than over the rear. But, I figure if we open up the firewall a bit, move the motor back and down...

Hey Twisty,
I think these guys answered you question quite well right off the bat. But that they just wanted to let you know that that would be the least of your worries, and that there are many other things to enjoy about being able to shock the stuff out of the spectators when they dont hear a raging bull tearing up a rockface or through the mud. But they see a little old Zuk kicking peoples ass. If you didn't want any other interaction on your post you should have titled it "Will I have enough traction in my ZUK" not "Will I like my suzuki" and as for Jap soda, you can have mine. :barf:

Get back in the garage...
I only have to be in the garage to lube my vehicle. :D
:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Twisted-if you already got it, build it and post the pics, but these things are tiny so get a bunch of fresh blades for the sawzall, or maybe get a plasma...I love Mopars too, my first car was a 68 GTX...wish I had it now.

KEEP THE SCOUT>>>>>>>>>>>PLEASE!

Hey scwafish, I'll be down to wheel with ya this summer.
Bobaki? :flipoff2:

ok here's the deal, i've seen the binder, rode in the binder, love the binder, i know that you have some width issues, therefore the suzuki idea is a grand one. as for the not using jap pieces i believe that you have all the ones that you need just because they were not imported does not make them bad. i still think it should go on coilovers!!!!:nuke:

I drove my binder today, it was a good day.

I don't know, ducky, did Japan ever put coilovers on Zuks at the factory? I think I am suppose to run the IFS 'cuz it is genuine Jap.:confused:

Late model samis did have coils over shocks, but not coilovers as a unit. I post a pic but IT IS NOW FORBIDDEN:flipoff2:

Sweet ride, Fatkid. I wish I could keep mine, but it is time to move on. You got a Zuk, too?

What is it with the IH to zuk thing...too big to too small, why can't we be "regular" and build something normal???

Originally posted by twistedscout
Ya know, all I wanted to know is if you guys thought the weight was satisfactory for traction. I am scared of building a truck that is so light it blows off a rock face. I am beginning to regret selling my Binder already. At least they understood the basics of building a piece of equipment for function, not because " It's all Jap."
I haven't build a bad truck yet, and my Sidekick will be the best yet. I just wanted to see how helpful you guys could be. And now I know. Thanks.

I run a 4.3, 700R4, D18 , Waggy 44's on 38's. I never spin a tire.
I like the power when you need it in the Mud, and love the Auto on the rocks. Check out the site. I havn't broken near the amount of sh@t when it was Jap crap!!!!! I could have run Toy axles, but i picked the Waggie's up for nothing.

Originally posted by twistedscout
I plan on my Zuk sitting under 2800 pounds. I am worried about a lack of traction. I am not used to seeing a tire spin, and am worried about it being a problem. Are my concerns justified?


I think your bigger concern will be the wheelbase you are losing. What was the W.B. of your Scout? 100" or so? You'll be losing almost 20" W.B.:(

Originally posted by scwafish
What is it with the IH to zuk thing...too big to too small, why can't we be "regular" and build something normal???

Most of my wheeling buddies are switching from zuk to IH, tired of landing on their heads I guess.:flipoff2:

Well, glad to see someone on my side. :usa: Where's Ottowa? That isn't in Iowa is it?
I agree with oilburner, the wheelbase is one of my concerns. I had actually even stretched the Scouts WB to 103, and it worked awesome! But once again it is TOO fat, and TOO heavy, and TOO wide. Driving the Scout is like riding a big, dumb dinosaur. It would go wherever the hell you pointed it. But it sure would make a mess out of everything getting there.
My reason for switching to a Zuk is simple. I've done the huge, long wheelbase, fullwidth one ton thing. It worked awesome and was a lot of fun. But if it works out like I plan, I can stretch the Zuks wheelbase to around 90 inches and it will hardly be noticeable.
I can imagine it now. A simple, cheap and functional rig that is drivable every day. Not just on nice days. Nothind beats digging snow out of the floor boards to find the pedals because it was the only vehicle that would start in the blizzard. Nothing beats chipping ice off of a shifter at 5.00 in the morning. And ah, windows that roll up before that big slimy, greasy mudhole!

I shouldn't have asked if I will like a Zuk. I know I'll like mine. I should have asked if you all like yours.

hey twistedknickers (:flipoff2: ) Ottawa is on the wrong side of Canada.:D
i seem to have picked up a little sarcasm in your "thanks" post a while back. dude, chill. it's all part of the Suzuki experiance;) everybody snickers at zook owners so much ('cept those in the know who get it) that by hardened nature,most are pretty feisty. coming from some "hugs n kisses" group that luvs each other :flipoff2: maybe you got the wrong impression that you were being slagged or sumthin'. i dunno. but once you are one of the little people, you'll see. mark my words.

ps-:flipoff2: welcome to the 'hood.

Originally posted by UZI 9mm
hey twistedknickers (:flipoff2: ) Ottawa is on the wrong side of Canada.:D
i seem to have picked up a little sarcasm in your "thanks" post a while back. dude, chill. it's all part of the Suzuki experiance;) everybody snickers at zook owners so much ('cept those in the know who get it) that by hardened nature,most are pretty feisty. coming from some "hugs n kisses" group that luvs each other :flipoff2: maybe you got the wrong impression that you were being slagged or sumthin'. i dunno. but once you are one of the little people, you'll see. mark my words.

ps-:flipoff2: welcome to the 'hood.

Nope, wrong, Ottawa is on the RIGHT COAST!!!!!! lol. Its between Toronto and Montreal. You must not watch Hockey?

My WB is at 86" now and I am making it 88 over the winter.
Not sure how some guys are getting 100" though?

Viagra?:D

I use to wheel with a full size bronco and man what a comfy ride but I left alot of red paint on things, but now with the samurai I can turn corners offroading where jeeps are backing up a couple of times, I just got back from wheeling on some powerline roads I went up a very muddy slimey road and man I almost lost it 31x11.50 tires loaded up started sliding over the side (cliff) man scared the heck out of me tried to run my chain and comealong to a tree for security (Doh) two feet two short so had to back down tapping brakes ment going towards the side but a white knuckle ride down and decided to try it again this time stayed in the ruts trany in second grsII in low gas to the floor and up we went all the way to the top man that was an adrenelin rush any way what I was getting at is i've owned a full size and now own a samurai and love it yea I got a long ways to go but off the shelf this thing goes almost anywhere oh yea a wench is on my christmas list.

Originally posted by twistedscout
Sweet ride, Fatkid. I wish I could keep mine, but it is time to move on. You got a Zuk, too?

Dude, this is his board. He is the zuk king of Pirate 4x4. Just don't ask him to show up at an event one state over.

(Sorry, fatkid. Was hoping to meet you.)

(Sorry, again. That didn't come out as humorous as intended.)

Originally posted by graydiger
a wench is on my christmas list.


ya, a wench is on my christmas list, too.:grinpimp:

It's cool. I can take a little guff. The Zuk crew isn't half as bad as the 'Binders up here. Clean and pure. The Scout resto shops won't even take my calls. A friend of mine spent nearly 14 grand to make sure all of the bolt heads in is Scout said IH on them! And he wouldn't even fix the rust because "it's original"! I guess I just got a little paranoid that the Zuk Crew was gonna be the same way.
Over the next few months you guys will probably hear me doing some things that aren't the Zuki Way. But understand this- My whole goal in life is to be able to pull up to a stop light and just KNOW that I never have to fear that a rig exactly like mine will pull up beside me.
And to the comment about not wanting to hear an engine screaming up a rock face or through a mud hole. I hear ya'. I am the farthest thing from a throttle jockey. I just like to know it's there. My Scout is a kitten on the trail, but nothin' beats being able to chase down a 'Vette or smoke a 5.0 off the line.:D at will.(sorry, Ducky is a Ford man. Sick bastard.:rolleyes:) I'll post pics of my progress. Then you guys can condemn me. Cool?

Most of my wheeling buddies are switching from zuk to IH, tired of landing on their heads I guess.
you know driving school might cure that, and they would then be able to keep the better vehicle Zuki's rock:flipoff2:

I'm gonna pull the 'objective 3rd party' thing here, being a guy who's been aimlessly wandering through the suzuki board for a while, but not really 'part' of it:

These guys weren't trying to tlak you out of using the GM stuff cause it ain't sammy, they were doing it cause it's heavy. Their concern was that you were taking away one of the huge benefits of a Sammy - small. Small power + leight weight = less breakage. If you put D44s on a sammy, that's like running D60s on a 4-cyl. scout 80/800. Damn near unbreakable. But as you make it heavier, you break more, so you need bigger axles, which means bigger tires, which means bigger engine, which all make it even heavier than before. That's why a lot of these guys run the "pocket rocket" 1.6L and Toy axles and GET IT.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to talk you out of you're idea. I for one would love to watch something like that work. Just making sure you're clear on their concerns. Oh, and post some pics when it's done.<hr>
BTW - I had the same concerns about my rig when I went to a Toy from my old 304-powered CJ-5... I think it's the best thing I've ever done.

Yeah I get it. And as of an hour ago, I'm a little closer to their ideas. I am now gonna run a Toy rear with a high pinion FJ-80 punkin' with a spool and 4.88s. I don't want to run a Toy front because of the Birfeilds and the lack of turning radius. Besides, the Cherokee 44 isn't going to be that much heavier to warrant installing a weaker(my opinion) front axle. The only advantage I do see and it frustrates me, is that Toys run the king pin type ball joints which are stronger than a 44's. So who knows what I'll do. The advantage of the 44 is that it is sitting in my front yard. Oh what to do, what to do?

Oh yeah, Uzi? I have to admit. That was pretty funny. Remind me that I don't like you anymore!:D

:( :flipoff2:


i love ya, man.............................can i have your beer?:flipoff2:

hey twisted scout its not what you buy its what you build. and it sound like your are planning on buildin a trix tracker. go for it, hell who wants to be like everyone else. you and i have alot in common we build what we need and improvise on the bucks up items. my zuk is getting a 30 in strech, 13b rotary and a set of cruiser axles sitting on 38s. all because that is what i have picked up for it the last year. should be different and wheel like a bitch. mike

Coooooooooool.

We have all seen Toy Birfs on much heavier rigs not to metion bigger motors bigger tires and lower geared, why does everyone "claim" Toy birfs are an issue on Zuks?

'Cuz I have seen em on Zuks. And I have seen them break just as easily. It isn't always weight or power causing breakage. Traction in a forced articulated situation simply equals broken parts. Light rigs and low power lessen the odds but also make for a less versatile rig. Just what I've seen.

i guess i am just on of the lucky ones. i have a fj62 that weighs a shit load with 5.29 gears and 38s and i have yet to pop a birfield. i carry spars but still haven't used any of them. but it is a under power rig for sure, still running the 3f with a auto. but i have had it hopping real bad and in some tight places. but i run the rig in 2 wd 99% of the time just to make it easy to turn and take some heat of the birfs. mike

That's pretty good. I am sure driver input has a LOT to do with it. And those cruisers ARE frickin' heavy. I'll never really know unless I get some experience with some. But seeing as how they make a 44 conversion for the Birfs then that says a little about the strength issue, so I still plan on running the 44 up front. The other advantage to a Toy axle is that it is already sprung over. But I plan on running coilovers, so that doesn't sway me.

For wheelbas issues you might want to pick up one of the 4 door kick's....just an idea.

I've never broken a Toy birf, of course I only run 33's with 80:1 so as of yet they have not been in issue. However in the last 6 months I have run the Con, 2 trips to the Hammers and 6 local runs. Still no breakage. But I baby my junk.:)

Originally posted by twistedscout
Besides, the Cherokee 44 isn't going to be that much heavier to warrant installing a weaker(my opinion) front axle.
{snip}
But seeing as how they make a 44 conversion for the Birfs then that says a little about the strength issue, so I still plan on running the 44 up front. The other advantage to a Toy axle is that it is already sprung over.
It's not your opinion - the Toy axle IS weaker thant a D-44. It's how MUCH weaker it is that no one can agree on. If I were you I'd go with the D44. Also, just FYI, the company coming out with the birfield eliminator kit now will be the third. Warn had problems with excessive breakage, and redline had huge back-ups, poor customer service, and still had breakage problems. No one knows about redline's warranty, because no one actually managed to get replacements when they broke it. :rolleyes:

I do like the toyota kingpin design - no worries about busted ball joints. One thing I REALLY like is knowing that it's virtuallly guranteed that if anything on it breaks, it will be the Birf. Makes carrying spare parts simpler (but hey... I lug a spare 3rd around anyway ;))

Anyway, if I were you, I'd use the D44 axle in front. You already have it, and it's an upgrade from the Toy. Not much of an upgrade, but still an upgrade.

In the rear a dana wouldn't be worth the weight. The axle is the same size & spline the D44 and Toyota axles (front & rear) - so the only real difference in back is 1/2" of ring gear. Not much.

Originally posted by twistedscout
But I plan on running coilovers, so that doesn't sway me.
:::groan:::

Yup. What you said.;)

Originally posted by fatkid
Still no breakage. But I baby my junk.:)


:D :D :laughing: :laughing: