I have read ALOT about front 4 links, and have come to this point in my mock up (see pics) Keep in mind that at some point in time perfect placement must be compromised due to pesky items like the engine block, starter, and where to hang a Driveshaft.. Heres a run down... 2x3x .187 frame, 350 TBI,TH350, 203-205 and 404 Mogs on Hummer Rims with 42" swampers.TJ tub and 107" WB. I will be installing Johnny joints on the frame ends of the links (vs the wire ties):flipoff2: I asked for the critique, lets have it..LINK PICS (http://pics.montypics.com/weps/2003-06-11/1055385291_pass_1.jpg)

WEPS

And another looking down...TOP of Links (http://pics.montypics.com/weps/2003-06-11/1055385357_topdown.jpg)

WEPS

All the anti-squat, weight transfer tech doesn't work for the front axle the same as the rear. From what I have played with that would be a killer rear set up if that's the actual height it will sit at. It should work fine in your front end too but it may dive when you get on the brakes hard. Making the front links more parralel has helped keep mine from diving. If you don't plan on going fast don't worry about it. Weld it up.

Thanks, I can move the top link up a bit more to get it more parallel. I was trying to consider the torque rotation difference of the Portal vs. "regular" axle, and was trying to get some more preload that way... Yes, that is pretty much the set ride height. Top link is 34" lower is 32" vert. separation is "around" 9"

WEPS

side view for all to see.

Looks like a good start. I want to coil my Scout sooooobad but I have a major lack of funds:( Oh well when the time is right.

Keep on updating.

more separation at the frame will also help keep your steering geometry more correct though the full range of travel. looks good

Originally posted by larryboy
side view for all to see. The lower link looks really short in that pic. Move the rear mount of the upp link so it's pretty close to horizontal... it appears in those pics that you'd get a lot of pinion-angle change as the suspension cycled, due to the difference in link lengths, and how close they mount @ the frame. :)

I did some adjusting this a.m., and can easily get the top link horizontal. This may shorten it up to about 32" and be the same (or darn close)to the lowers length. 260 views and no ones kicking me in the bag?:confused: Could it be all of the reading (Including the "god of suspension" thread) is paying off?:rolleyes: Come on PIG, and TPIjeep....I'm hoping the day crew will check this out. For me, its bedtime!:zzz:

WEPS

What size tubing did you use? looks beefy.

This isn't a critique. From what I can tell (admittedly I don't know much about 4 links) it looks kick ass.

I have more of a question/observation.

I notice your upper link when veiwed from the side angles down from the axle toward the frame. It sounds like a few of the respondents feel that will cause excessive pinion rotation throught the travel of the suspension.

What I've noticed is that John Gilleland's buggy (and the Karnivore copys by Avalanche) do their links the same way, although they look as if the upper link is still angled downward but just not quite as much.

So, is this really that bad a setup?

Sean

I was hoping for a few more comments, bringing this back up for the last time before I start making things permanent;) Thanks for looking. Links are 1.5" sch 80 (.218 wall)
WEPS

Originally posted by weps
Links are 1.5" ....218 wall
WEPS In that case, go ahead and run it, but I will be very surprised if you don't bend a link the moment you really start hammering it, or land on a rock with one. ;)

I don't think .218 would be a thick enough wall for a lower link unless it was at least 2.25" OD. You're probably fine on the uppers.

Originally posted by TNToy
I don't think .218 would be a thick enough wall for a lower link unless it was at least 2.25" OD. You're probably fine on the uppers.

Are you saying that it will bend because it's pipe of that thickness/diameter, or just the thickness/diameter in general for lowers?

This is what happend to my 1.5" sch 80 links the first time I landed hard on a rock....

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-2-89562-bend.jpg

This is what I did to prevent it from happening again. 3/16" by 1.5" angle.

http://www.alaskaoffroad.com/cgi-bin/iB_html/uploads/post-3-54525-angle_iron.jpg

My rear links are made from the same stuff, and with almost two years of runs, I never managed to bend one. Butt, if I ever get a chance to take the lowers off, they will be getting the same treatment as the fronts.

Pipe is for poop.

Hmmm I usually use a pipe to smoke with PIG, we should probably talk.......




Not sure what kind of Anti-dive you are looking for or AS for that matter, but your vertical sepreation difference between the axle and the frame (if they are mocked up where you are going to leave them) leads me to believe that you are shooting for somewhere over 100%, and it looks like your somewhere in the range of 100 to 125 (guessing) . Personally I might add a little height to that upper controll arm mount at the frame. 9 inches of vert sep at the axle sounds great though. nice job!


Ryan

1.5" 1/4" wall DOM just went on our CJ. I'll post up tomorrow with pics. Should be more than strong enough.

I kinda like the angle iron addition to the links (or have thought of that too) also "MAY" allow for some more "Slidage" (new word) on an obstacle:confused:
Thanks for the Approval, and if PIG only hates the Pipe portion of it, I must be on the right track..... I may just go ahead and use some 1.5-2" DOM for the lowers now. I WILL raise the link up at the frame end so that it IS Parallel.
I think that the oil pan to diff clearance looks good, 4" TJ springs for now.......


Thanks for the help PBB!


WEPS

If you made your links from 2" solid 4140, you could still bend them. Pipe works great for those of us that aren't made of money like PIG seems to be.

Make your links out of the 1.5" sch80, then slap a lenght of angle on it, and wheel it. If it bends, go with something heavier/stronger.

I seriously think my links will be .250 wall *square* tubing with a bushing at the frame end, and a RE joint at the other. Just to piss people off.

Plus, Square is just plain harder to bend than same dia/wall round. It's just not as sexy. :D

Here's what we have going on....all 1/4" wall DOM. Bushings came from POLY:

Another:

That is one hell of a D-Line!

:eek: :eek:

LOL....:flipoff2:

Do you have a side shot?

Originally posted by weps

Thanks for the Approval, and if PIG only hates the Pipe portion of it, I must be on the right track.....

Thanks for the help PBB!
WEPS

It looks ok, but please save the pipe for poop, or at least the uppers.

PIG: give him a reason, rather than just saying its for poop. Got any real world experiance to quantify the above statement?

Originally posted by bgreen
PIG: give him a reason, rather than just saying its for poop. Got any real world experiance to quantify the above statement?


Depending upon the grade of the poop pipe, DOM is (typically) double the tensile strength. Go do a search or check some reading material. If you want me to wipe your ass and spoon feed you the exact info. let me me know.

Originally posted by TNToy
Do you have a side shot?

Here ya go:

and another

Originally posted by PIG



Depending upon the grade of the poop pipe, DOM is (typically) double the tensile strength. Go do a search or check some reading material. If you want me to wipe your ass and spoon feed you the exact info. let me me know.

Exactly the response I expected. Especially from someone with no personal real world experiance to back up his statements. Very professional.

Originally posted by bgreen


Exactly the response I expected. Especially from someone with no personal real world experiance to back up his statements. Very professional.

if it was made out of wood and held up so far would that be acceptable and proven with real world experience?

I've read in almost every welding and metalurgy book I've picked up if your going for structural use tube, pressure use pipe. I guess making a decision on what materials to use based on spec sheets rather than what has held up so far on a kluge pile is un professional

I used pipe on my front bumper. Sched 80 I believe. I couldn't do any more damage than some rock rash... Probably get better results from DOM of the same thickness, but I didn't need any better results and the price was right!

-Jack

Originally posted by bgreen


Exactly the response I expected. Especially from someone with no personal real world experiance to back up his statements. Very professional.

Your right, I have no personal expierence with materials or 4-link design:rolleyes: And yes I am very unprofessional.

It looks like I am gonna have to wipe your ass and spoon feed you aren't I. I'll get some documents tomarrow.

Originally posted by PIG

It looks like I am gonna have to wipe your ass and spoon feed you aren't I. I'll get some documents tomarrow.

OK fawk it. You got me going now. I really should be sleeping now considering I just worked 14 hours.

Grade and Description Chemistry Tensile Yield Rockwell Hardness
Units typical ksi ksi typical

1010
ERW tube C .08-.13
Mn .30-.60
P .035 max
S .035 max
Tensile=45ksi yeild=32ksi RB55 min

1020
DOM tube C .15-.25
Mn .30-.60
P .040 max
S .050 max
Tensile=80ksi yeild=70ksi RB80

4130
DOM tube
(chromoly) C .28-.33
Mn .40-.60
P .035
S .040
Si .15-.35
Cr .80-1.10
Mo .15-.25
Tensile=100ksi yeild=90ksi RB90

More......???????

Common Grade ( Yes it varrys a little with the grade but if you are pichin pennies you are probably gettin the cheap stuff)

Common HREW-produced as a butt-welded or seamless product in
black or galvanized finish;produced to minimum mechanical
properties of 25,000 to 35,000 Psi yield and 45,000 to 50,000 Psi
tensile as well as hydrostatic pressure tested;suitable for more
extensive fabrication such as flanging (excluding butt-welded)and
bending,as well as welding and threading;meets federal specification
WW-P404c.

Common DOM-produced to ASI-C-1020 for wall thickness 10
gauge and lighter and AISI-C-1026 for wall thickness heavier than 10
gauge;produced by the electric-resistance-welded method (ERW)and further processed by drawing over a mandrel (for I.D.control)and
through a die (for O.D.control);compared to Cold Drawn Seamless,
Drawn Over Mandrel Tubing (DOM)has better finish,closer diameter tolerance,less eccentricity and lower cost;suitable for general purpose applications such as machined parts,rollers,shafts and
hydraulic cylinders;typical minimum yield strengths are 75,000 Psi
yield and 85,000 Psi tensile.

Is your ass clean yet, or do you need me to wipe it more?

on paper, pipe probally should not work. fact is in the real world it seems to work ok. crude but effective. you will not find any on my rig nowadays but i have used it in the past and it did it's job ok.

only thing i noticed about it was that after time the welded joints seemed to fail before the welded joints on hrew or dom. could have been my welds but it seemed to be a consistent problem

WOW, thanks for copying some stuff out of a book like anyone could have.

I never said you didn't have any experience designing suspensions. You are without a doubt one of the more suspension educated people on this board, and have a very good understanding of suspension geometry.

You do lack actual experience on the trail, and in the shop actually building suspensions to see what materials work, and what don't. There is no doubt that DOM 1020 is going to be stronger than pipe. The only debate in my mind is whether or not it is actually necessary.

What you definitely lack is the ability to understand that people don't have to use products you sell to build a successful suspension.

You are unprofessional by speaking to me and other people like we are children, rather than trying to be helpfull. Very Typical.

Originally posted by IronBenderII
Probably get better results from DOM of the same thickness, but I didn't need any better results and the price was right!

-Jack

This is exactly the point I want to make. AND that someone that has never built a suspension from pipe should not discount pipe as a viable material.

Camo: thanks for the tip. I will be watching my welds. Most of them were made with 7018, but some were er70s6. I will watch the mig welds the closest.

mine was mig welded. it always seemed starange to me and never really figured out why the pipe welds were cracking.....oh well. just keep an eye on it.


as for pig and pipe. well lets just say i have yet to meet and engineer who would sugest pipe for our use.


on my rig i am bending my 1.75 .250 4130 lowers so i doubt pipe would cut it but on less abused applications i have seen it hold up ok. still i don't useally recomend it when asked but i don't bash it either. to each his own.

Originally posted by bgreen
WOW, thanks for copying some stuff out of a book like anyone could have.

Your welcome.

[i]I never said you didn't have any experience designing suspensions. You are without a doubt one of the more suspension educated people on this board, and have a very good understanding of suspension geometry.[/B]

Thank you for the compliment.

[i]You do lack actual experience on the trail, and in the shop actually building suspensions to see what materials work, and what don't. There is no doubt that DOM 1020 is going to be stronger than pipe. The only debate in my mind is whether or not it is actually necessary.[/B]

Ok here is the point (well one of them at least) I am trying to make. If a person is gonna spend all the time, energy, & money to build a linked suspension, why not make it to the best of their ability. What I am getting at here is that the extra couple bucks (an extra 3 to 4 dollars a foot) a person will pay to use DOM on their links ( at least the lowers). Is well worth it in the long run, IMO.

Here is a pic of the first linked rig I built a few years ago. Not to bad for being a poor unemployed college student. I knew that I didn't want to use HREW because of its material properties compared to DOM. I ended up using some prototype RE long arms because they are made of 4130 DOM and I got a screaming deal on them.

http://www.polyperformance.com/CON005.jpg

[i]What you definitely lack is the ability to understand that people don't have to use products you sell to build a successful suspension.[/B]

At what point did I say hey if you don't buy my chit your 4-link will suck? I see tons of 4-links that don't use our parts that totally kick ass, but then again I see kick ass rigs that do use our products.

[i]You are unprofessional by speaking to me and other people like we are children, rather than trying to be helpfull. Very Typical. [/B]

Oh, come awn........... I am not speaking to you as if you were a child. It seemed to me as if you were antagonizing me in your remarks.

[i]Pipe works great for those of us that aren't made of money like PIG seems to be.[/B]
[i]Got any real world experiance to quantify the above statement?[/B]
[i]Exactly the response I expected. Especially from someone with no personal real world experiance to back up his statements. Very professional.[/B]

If you have payed any attention to my replies/post on this board for the past few years you would know that I really like & enjoy to help people out wether or not my parts are being sold. So what I was offering here was my .02. I wasn't trying to piss on your fence, just trying to give good info.

Camo: Good point.

There is no doubt that an engineer would never recommend pipe. They live in perfect worlds where complex formula and theory can be used to find answeres to nearly every question. We dont live in that world, (or alteast most of us dont) and have to use common sense, and real world testing to come to some of our conclusions. Hell, even I will "recommend" DOM, but I also realize that Pipe can be made to work for many applications. Having a closed mind isn't going to help anyone.

Have you considered using a spring steel? something that will bend, but has alot of memory?

Originally posted by PIG

It looks like I am gonna have to wipe your ass and spoon feed you aren't I.

You dont call that trying to piss on my fence?

If a person is gonna spend all the time, energy, & money to build a linked suspension, why not make it to the best of their ability.

Because they can't afford it. Its easy to say that its "Only" a few dollars a foot more. But the truth of the matter is that a few dollars here, and a few dollars there adds up to allot of money at the end of the project.

At what point did I say hey if you don't buy my chit your 4-link will suck? I see tons of 4-links that don't use our parts that totally kick ass, but then again I see kick ass rigs that do use our products.

How often do you recommend a product that you dont sell? How often do you chime in on threads unless they are about something that you sell?

i think a bigger reason people use pipe is availability. dom or cromoly is harder to come by for most people. i think if dom and cromoly were more widley available it would be used more often.

price is always a concern but dom is not that much more than pipe. just harder to find in stock at the local steel outlets

Originally posted by bgreen

You dont call that trying to piss on my fence?


I really wasn't trying to talk shit. It's just that wasn't gonna look like a sissy not making a rebuttal to your antagonizing remarks.

Originally posted by bgreen
Because they can't afford it. Its easy to say that its "Only" a few dollars a foot more. But the truth of the matter is that a few dollars here, and a few dollars there adds up to allot of money at the end of the project.

Lets see here; 4 foot links * 2 Links * 4 bucks a foot. Well thats 32 bucks. Figure you have to buy it in 20ft sticks, thats still only 80 bucks more. Is it worth it??? IMO yes. Is it worth it to you? Obviously not. I agree that the little stuff does add up but you have to ask your self a question. If you are pinching $32-$80 bucks should you really be building a 4-link? IMO, no. You should be saving money for groceries, gas, diapers or whatever...

Originally posted by bgreen
How often do you recommend a product that you dont sell? How often do you chime in on threads unless they are about something that you sell?

Here this one was pretty recent. If there is something out there worth pimping i'll do it eventhough I don't carry it.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143257&highlight=mad4wd

Originally posted by PIG

Lets see here; 4 foot links * 2 Links * 4 bucks a foot. Well thats 32 bucks. Figure you have to buy it in 20ft sticks, thats still only 80 bucks more. Is it worth it??? IMO yes. Is it worth it to you? Obviously not. I agree that the little stuff does add up but you have to ask your self a question. If you are pinching $32-$80 bucks should you really be building a 4-link? IMO, no. You should be saving money for groceries, gas, diapers or whatever...



Now try that here in AK. The steel shops do not know what tubing is. Ask for tube up here and you will get pipe. Only tubing you will find up here is square or in a driveline shop. Sometimes you have to live with what you can get.

Most of the guys I know around here have been going 1.5x1/4 DOM on their links with great success (East Coast stuff like Tellico, Badlands, Paragon). One bent link and that was because the pig interfered with the upper when it was in some weird off-camber position that we didn't catch back in the garage.

Another is running lighter chromo (1.5x.188? iirc) and finally bent a lower last time in Paragon after a solid year of wheeling. His front links (same material) have lasted about 2 years now with no problems. I think he is repairing with DOM, but I'm not totally sure.

Finally, another guy build his stuff with pipe. It was 2"x0.25 or something, I'm not a plumber so I don't know the schedule. He told me, I forgot; but I know that the stuff was somewhere in that range.

First trip out his lowers were bending like a motha. Never fully pretzeled, but definitely not holding up like DOM would have. I've seen DOM and Chromo take the same hits and laugh it off, while the pipe slowly bent with each hit. After seeing it in person and seeing a few others have to patch up their pipe arms with angle, then I'd go with DOM.

Have you considered using a spring steel? something that will bend, but has alot of memory?

Ding! Ding! Ding! we have a winner! It's called "heat treating" you can take that 4130 chrome moly tubing that everyone uses that isn't much stronger than DOM and heat treat it, now you have increased it's strength by 50%.

As far as using pipe, use what ever you want, pesonally, I would use dom or 4130, to me if its not worth doing right, its not worth doing at all. If guys are bending 1/4" wall dom or 4130, how is pipe going to hold up at half the tensile strength. If you have problems getting dom or 4130 locally, the UPS guy can bring you some, or there is nothing wrong with using square or rectangular structural tubing, given the same diameter and wall thickness, it will be stronger in bending than round, however DOM will still have higher tensile strength because it has more carbon and it is cold worked.

Just for reference, I wheel on the east coast and can attest that 1.5x.250 dom tubing bends fairly easily. 1.75x.375 on the other hand can take some serious abuse.

This is on rigs with 40"+ tires and 4-6k pounds.

CJ

Originally posted by JohnnyJ
Most of the guys I know around here have been going 1.5x1/4 DOM on their links with great success (East Coast stuff like Tellico, Badlands, Paragon). One bent link and that was because the pig interfered with the upper when it was in some weird off-camber position that we didn't catch back in the garage.

Another is running lighter chromo (1.5x.188? iirc) and finally bent a lower last time in Paragon after a solid year of wheeling. His front links (same material) have lasted about 2 years now with no problems. I think he is repairing with DOM, but I'm not totally sure.

Finally, another guy build his stuff with pipe. It was 2"x0.25 or something, I'm not a plumber so I don't know the schedule. He told me, I forgot; but I know that the stuff was somewhere in that range.

First trip out his lowers were bending like a motha. Never fully pretzeled, but definitely not holding up like DOM would have. I've seen DOM and Chromo take the same hits and laugh it off, while the pipe slowly bent with each hit. After seeing it in person and seeing a few others have to patch up their pipe arms with angle, then I'd go with DOM.


WOW, real world wheeling experience...What will bgreen do now??? :rolleyes:

This is always a ridiculous argument. Even the pipe fans conceed that DOM and 4130 are stronger and that they would prefer to use that over pipe, but they are just too cheap to ante up for the better stuff.

Why can't people just say "Listen, I am too cheap to buy DOM for my links so I buy pipe. It may not be the best stuff, but it'll work for now"?? Then...just let it be.

Also, I have never purchased anything from PIG, but his information has never been found to be off base and if he treats you like an idiot I bet it is because this topic has been covered soooo many times. How often can someone type the same shit?? Just give it up; If you like pipe, use it, but you cannot find anyone to validate your frugality by saying that pipe is just as strong as proper tube. Maybe that is why they make tube---for applications that pipe is not applicable!!!

Originally posted by GOAT1


Ding! Ding! Ding! we have a winner! It's called "heat treating" you can take that 4130 chrome moly tubing that everyone uses that isn't much stronger than DOM and heat treat it, now you have increased it's strength by 50%.

This isn't the first time this has been taked about either.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=88710&highlight=heat+treat

Listen, I am too cheap to buy DOM for my links so I buy pipe. It may not be the best stuff, but it'll work for now.

I used pipe(sched 80) for my suspesion when i first put it together.....The lowers didnt even last one run before they bent....
Hell im even able to bend 1.75 .250 wall DOM...

But im still running the same upper links as the day i put my suspension together..It will hold up until they come in contact with the rocks.

As for PIG, he is a stand up guy! He has helped many many people on this board in designing there suspensions...

Including myself....

WHOA BOYS! I really did'nt want a war, was kind of a "HEY look at my shit" thread. RIGHT, most everyone is right. Camo pretty much nailed it with the "readily available" comment on the pipe. It is cheap and easy to get. The "No Engineer ever specifies pipe for structural apps" is right too. SOOOOOOO....... I AM going with 1.75" .250 DOM for the links. I am happy that the mock-up stage with the cheap pipe has worked out well too. I have cut, placed, recut, redesigned many many times so far. the finished "REAL DEAL" will be DOM. All who have chimed in and posted pics- thanks. they look good. I especially like the TNTOY rig. looks like it is fun to drive. And Bgreen in Alaska- cool too.
No one said my links are too short:confused: at 30" they are ok? They just seem short by comparison to others.

WEPS

Specs: 108" WB, TBI 350,TH350,NP203-205, 404 Mogs on 42" Swampers.

i think the commonly accecpted norm is longer links are better but i have seen "short" links work just fine. currie fire ant comes to mind. it's all in the design

Originally posted by CJ Lagos
Just for reference, I wheel on the east coast and can attest that 1.5x.250 dom tubing bends fairly easily. 1.75x.375 on the other hand can take some serious abuse.

This is on rigs with 40"+ tires and 4-6k pounds.

CJ

Good point. The rigs I'm talking about are 3500-4500lbs with anywhere from 35s-39s and either D44 or D60. (1 D44 had 35s, others were 60s with 38 or 39 Swampers) So there is a bit of difference in size/weight.

For Weps, it sound liek the 1.75x0.375 on the lowers would be the better setup with the 42s.

As for length, if that's all that you can wedge in there and you're getting the dive and roll axis you're looking for, then I'd say go for it.

For the last time:
I NEVER INTENDED TO ARGUE ABOUT THE STRENGTH OF PIPE.

I wanted to do two things in this thread.

1) I wanted to make a point to PIG. I think I did that.

2) That you shouldn't discount pipe as a viable material. Especially if you have no experiance with it.

I wont argue that its not always strong enough for links. Obviously... Look at the pictures I posted of my own links. I also never said that he should build his links from pipe, only that If your going to say its for plumbers and/or poop, you should at least be willing to say why. This is a tech forum afterall.

Rude Zukes comment pretty much sums it up. You can bend any practical material. After having bent mine, and added the angle, Im wondering how light of tubing you can get away with with this mod.

Zachv: listen, im too cheap to buy DOM, Im not made of money, it works fine for my application.

I wasnt asking for just anyones real world experiance with pipe. I was Speciffically asking for PIG's experiance with pipe, etc.

Enough from me... Sorry for the Hijack WEPS. :(

this is fawking hilarious...

PIG - thanx for the parts, my 4 link works great!

BGreen - it's OK to be a cheap-ass. I just had to convince my roommate (Mcsoo) to use pipe INSTEAD OF square-wall tubing for his frontstinger and fender bars. There was no freakin way he'd use DOM, he's "tighter than a rusty jar lid" as Jimmy would say...

pipe is for farmers:flipoff2:

I've only been around a short while but does this topic come up once a month or something. Geez.

Originally posted by bgreen

I wanted to do two things in this thread.

1) I wanted to make a point to PIG. I think I did that.

Ok..... so whats the point??? If you are cheap fawk you will use pipe??? Ok, great, but tell me something I don't know. All I was trying to do was justify a little extra expense for quite a bit of savings in the long run. So how much more time did you spend putting those bandaids on your radius arms? How how much money could you have made at your day job while spending time on the rig? Time is money you know. How much was that piece of angle? I hope you get the point I am trying to make.

Originally posted by bgreen
2) That you shouldn't discount pipe as a viable material. Especially if you have no experiance with it.

Originally posted by bgreen
I wasnt asking for just anyones real world experiance with pipe. I was Speciffically asking for PIG's experiance with pipe, etc.


You are right here. I do not have any direct real world expierence with using pipe as suspension links. However, there is a reason for that. It is because I looked up the properties of pipe and DOM and made an educated guess that 80 ksi tensile strength is better than 45ksi tensile strength. From then on it was a no brainer to me.

Originally posted by bgreen
I wont argue that its not always strong enough for links. Obviously... Look at the pictures I posted of my own links. I also never said that he should build his links from pipe, only that If your going to say its for plumbers and/or poop, you should at least be willing to say why. This is a tech forum afterall.

Well, it sure sounds to me like you ARE arguing that pipe is strong enough for links. Also, I thought I answered your qustion on page 2? Check the material properties. I have also seen, on several occasions, bent links made from pipe. Other than that I just don't know what else to say to you.

Originally posted by bgreen
Rude Zukes comment pretty much sums it up. You can bend any practical material. After having bent mine, and added the angle, Im wondering how light of tubing you can get away with with this mod.

I will agree with that. However, the point I have been trying to make out of this thread was that if a person is going to go throught all of this time a money to build a linked suspension why not spend the extra couple of bucks on alot better material. Let us know when you bend you links again.

Originally posted by bgreen
Zachv: listen, im too cheap to buy DOM, Im not made of money, it works fine for my application.

In th end, do what makes you happy. All I was trying to do here was offer my opinion. I could careless if you use pipe or dom. It's just that I won't use it and I feel that there is a pretty good reason for that.

Bgreen, reguardless of wha I have written here. I have seen you on here (PBB) for awhile and think your a pretty cool kat. Also, I really dig your rig.

Well, back to the thread at hand. Weps, everything looks ok for the most part. Keep posting picks as you progress.

Rock Toy, why didn't you use the bushings at the chassis instead of the axle. How bad does it bind when you articulate the axle??

Originally posted by PIG
Rock Toy, why didn't you use the bushings at the chassis instead of the axle. How bad does it bind when you articulate the axle?? I personally plan to use the bushings at the axle and joints at the frame, too. The reason being that if I don't, they'll spend approximately an hour of each ride submerged in mud, or muddy water. I can take a little binding in return for not replacing shot joints every couple months. :)

Originally posted by TNToy
I personally plan to use the bushings at the axle and joints at the frame, too. The reason being that if I don't, they'll spend approximately an hour of each ride submerged in mud, or muddy water. I can take a little binding in return for not replacing shot joints every couple months. :)

OMG! another topic PIG and I will never agree on! :D Just bustin your chops man. Im not even going to get into this one....

Originally posted by ebuck
That is one hell of a D-Line!

:eek: :eek:

LOL....:flipoff2:
it is even named for ease of identification

hmmm.. wonder what that part is for, its got two unis, must belong in the steering...wait....i see something under the dust, oh!!!

"drive shaft"

ROFL

I can get 1-1\2" .250" wall DOM for $5.33 a foot. I don't think that's bad at all...

Originally posted by '76 304
I can get 1-1\2" .250" wall DOM for $5.33 a foot. I don't think that's bad at all...

Damn, you must be made of money. I wouldn't pay that if it was gold plated.:D Just bustin your chops,if you can afford that more power to ya. I'm just jellous cuz I can't afford to do that.


bgreen,
I agree, pipe and poly bushing are NOT evil. I don't buy into this unristricted articulation trend nowadays. I'm not rich so I'm useing pipe and poly all around for my link's and gonna use the angle underneith(sp) trick also. If the pipe links held up for Camo,(other than the welds crakin) thats sayin something. I know I won't be as hard on my truck as Camo is on his rig. For the cost difference I can build 4 complete set's of links out of pipe vs. 1 set of DOM links. With that said I'll build a spare set just in case, but I doubt I'll need them.

Originally posted by TNToy
I personally plan to use the bushings at the axle and joints at the frame, too. The reason being that if I don't, they'll spend approximately an hour of each ride submerged in mud, or muddy water. I can take a little binding in return for not replacing shot joints every couple months. :)

When ya gonna do it?