Got some axle wrap. Traction bar or more leafs?

[kutyafal]

I've done some more testing on the SOA. The more I drive it the more I like it. Great flex on both axles, maxing out the shocks but got pretty good axle wrap in the rear. Pinion flenge moves up about 2" upon hard acceleration. So... I only have 5 leafs in the back that have about 2.5" of lift. I've heard others using the JC Whitney HD 6 leaf spring packs with good results. Would that cure the amount of wrap I have? I also heard that the HD CJ spring from JCW is 7 leafs but would that work on a YJ ?
Now the other solution is to fab up some traction bar system. Did anybody do that on a Ford 8.8 rear end? Should it be attached to the tubes or to the diff housing?
All ideas are welcome so let's have'em!

[66CJdean]

Traction bar all the way! Something like the one Sam's offroad sells.

[meyerca]

Actually, my brother (Water Dog) just completed his own traction bar. I dont think he has had a chance to test it, but here is a link to his write up on it:

Water Dog's Traction Bar (http://members.home.com/stevenjmeyer1/traction_bar/)

Good luck,

-Chris

[High5]

i have built traction bars that mount to the top of the axle llike that and they don't work. they are on the same side of the axle as the springs and the axle will just use it as a pivot on it . i built one similar to the one sam's offroad sells and it works great. the shackle allows full articulation with no binding yet prevents wrap.

[cobo9]

hey chris does he need another bar on the bottom? or was he ok. he mentioned that in the web page

i need to make one within a couple of days so just trying to see what works and what doesn't

[cobo9]

hey chris does he need another bar on the bottom? or was he ok. he mentioned that in the web page

i need to make one within a couple of days so just trying to see what works and what doesn't

[kutyafal]

Originally posted by high5:
<STRONG>i have built traction bars that mount to the top of the axle llike that and they don't work. they are on the same side of the axle as the springs and the axle will just use it as a pivot on it . i built one similar to the one sam's offroad sells and it works great. the shackle allows full articulation with no binding yet prevents wrap.</STRONG>

I can see why the top-only mount wouldn't work on a SOA rig. I was thinking of building the same triangular ladder bar as the Sams item but I'm concerned about attaching it to the Ford 8.8 tubes. They are known to twist sometimes so wouldn't this increase the chance of that? Also what would you use to weld the brackets onto the pig? Hi Nic. rod?

[Keith Strong]

Traction bar. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

[meyerca]

Originally posted by cobo9:
<STRONG>hey chris does he need another bar on the bottom? or was he ok. he mentioned that in the web page
</STRONG>

Dont know yet, he hasent gotten it out for a trail test yet. Ill get him to look at this thread and offer up some comments.

-Chris

[Lowrangerider]

I am having a Sam's bar put on mine as we speak. I also have an 8.8 so I hope the axle tubes dont twist...

[LAME]

Lowrange, is your rig at BOR again? Seems like Dan has your Jeep more than you do. Phil (white YJ, 35" MT/R's) is getting a front detroit right now <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

[SJM]

I'm in the process of a redesign now. I still have crazy axle wrap. I am building a ladder bar type setup. Two connection points on the axle...high and low. Will update the page with the new setup.

--Steve

[66CJdean]

Originally posted by kutyafal:
<STRONG>I was thinking of building the same triangular ladder bar as the Sams item but I'm concerned about attaching it to the Ford 8.8 tubes. They are known to twist sometimes so wouldn't this increase the chance of that? Also what would you use to weld the brackets onto the pig? Hi Nic. rod?</STRONG>

Put two 1" welds on each tube from the tube to the housing just to be sure they don't twist. The housings are cast steel not cast iron so a ni rod is not nessisary a 70ER6S mig wire works just fine but a 80ER6S would be even better. You can use a lower silicon wire like a 3S-5S if that is what you have.

[Keith]

Originally posted by 66CJdean:
<STRONG>Put two 1" welds on each tube from the tube to the housing just to be sure they don't twist. The housings are cast steel not cast iron so a ni rod is not nessisary a 70ER6S mig wire works just fine but a 80ER6S would be even better. You can use a lower silicon wire like a 3S-5S if that is what you have.</STRONG>

HEY! Stop all that fancy talking! Seriously though, for sure use a ladder bar type with a shackle at the front. Make sure to use a goofy shackle or heim joint, or johnny joint at the shackle end. Also, dont be afraid to make it too beefy.....Just ask Dean!

[CJ-Jeeper]

I built a Sam's style bar attatched to the tube on my AMC20, which is also known for spinning tubes. No problems yet w/ 4 good wheeling trips on it and no extra welds to the pumpkin.

[kutyafal]

Originally posted by 66CJdean:
<STRONG>Put two 1" welds on each tube from the tube to the housing just to be sure they don't twist. The housings are cast steel not cast iron so a ni rod is not nessisary a 70ER6S mig wire works just fine but a 80ER6S would be even better. You can use a lower silicon wire like a 3S-5S if that is what you have.</STRONG>

Wow, cast steel? That's a different ball game. I only have a wirefeed MIG w/flux but I can use my onboard welder w/7018 rod, it should hold then. Right? For the 1" reinforcement welds do you mean to put it where the tube meets the housing? I was told to grind the plug welds out and weld in the holes but they look pretty healthy so I rather not mess with them. Additional beads around the tube where it meets the housing would only help more if that's the way to do it.
Btw, I'm going to put in an extra leaf for now until I fab up the traction bar. Trail run is in one week, time is hort.

[Lowrangerider]

<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> I just got my Jeep back and holy sh!t is it WAY better it fixed many of my problems with vibrations. I cant believe how much it helped! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Man it feels good to be able to put the petal to the metal again! I havent been able to use any heavy right foot action for almost a year! Now I can floor it and it works great! I put in a Sams traction bar but if I did it again I think I might get a parts mike just because it is adjustable.

[Keith Strong]

Originally posted by Lowrangerider:
<STRONG>I am having a Sam's bar put on mine as we speak. </STRONG>

<IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> I am so dissapointed in you <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

[kutyafal]

Originally posted by Lowrangerider:
<STRONG> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> I just got my Jeep back and holy sh!t is it WAY better it fixed many of my problems with vibrations. I cant believe how much it helped! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">
I put in a Sams traction bar but if I did it again I think I might get a parts mike just because it is adjustable.</STRONG>

What's the web site for Parts Mike's online store (not the partsmike.com site)? I'd like to see their design. Also, did you get the Sams HD or regular traction bar? Where did they mount the shacle mount?

[SweetCJ7]

There is no store. You have to call or email or go over there. Here is a pic.

http://www.directcon.net/kurtz/PM%20antiwrap.jpg

[Qbert]

Originally posted by Water-Dog:
<STRONG>I'm in the process of a redesign now. I still have crazy axle wrap. I am building a ladder bar type setup. Two connection points on the axle...high and low. Will update the page with the new setup.

--Steve</STRONG>
I cut my track bars and made them in to my wrap control bars. I welded an aye to a piece of flat stock and then to the plate, then used one of my old shackles and used it to allow the drop travel. The thing looks like the one from Sam but has an angle in it to clear my shocks (they are mounted on an upside down V). I used 3x2 stock to make the mount to the axle. Just cut the shape of the axle out of the stock and welded it to it. Works great and only cost me 13 bucks. If you go to home depot they sell this nifty thing in the tiles department, it’s a long piece of plastic whit a bunch of pins in it, when you but it against a surface it takes the shape and you can trace it to anything. It’s meant to copy the od corners when applying tiles but I use it a lot for all my crazy angles. Makes things a lot easier when you are fabricating on round surfaces.

[kutyafal]

Originally posted by Qbert:
<STRONG>Originally posted by Water-Dog:
I'm in the process of a redesign now. I still have crazy axle wrap. I am building a ladder bar type setup. Two connection points on the axle...high and low. Will update the page with the new setup.

--Steve</STRONG>
I cut my track bars and made them in to my wrap control bars. I welded an aye to a piece of flat stock and then to the plate, then used one of my old shackles and used it to allow the drop travel. The thing looks like the one from Sam but has an angle in it to clear my shocks (they are mounted on an upside down V). I used 3x2 stock to make the mount to the axle. Just cut the shape of the axle out of the stock and welded it to it. Works great and only cost me 13 bucks. If you go to home depot they sell this nifty thing in the tiles department, it’s a long piece of plastic whit a bunch of pins in it, when you but it against a surface it takes the shape and you can trace it to anything. It’s meant to copy the od corners when applying tiles but I use it a lot for all my crazy angles. Makes things a lot easier when you are fabricating on round surfaces.

I already cut one of my track bars up and made a Z-draglink out of it. No prob. though, junkyard has more. Thanks god the piggie is weldable. I fab somethig up eventually. Qbert, do you have any pics of the thing?

[Qbert]

I will take some I keep the Jeep 1 hr away at my buds house. I will go down this wheek and thake some pics. The dam ting is super strong and the bushings are there allredy. <IMG SRC="smilies/eyemouth.gif" border="0">

[FULLSIZE]

SAMS, SAMS, SAMS! anything else(besides some kind of 4 link) just lets the diff pivot and aims the pinion sky high <IMG SRC="smilies/puke.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/puke.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/puke.gif" border="0"> !

[Scouter]

Originally posted by FULLSIZE:
<STRONG>SAMS, SAMS, SAMS! anything else(besides some kind of 4 link) just lets the diff pivot and aims the pinion sky high <IMG SRC="smilies/puke.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/puke.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/puke.gif" border="0"> !</STRONG>
<IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> Not true! I ran a Parts Mike bar on my last Jeep for 2+ years and the pinion could not raise.

[Qbert]

I got the pics on the digital cam corder but they wont down load. DAMIT!!!!! Some coms fault BS. I will take some normal ones and scan them. <IMG SRC="smilies/pissed.gif" border="0">

[Lowrangerider]

Originally posted by Keith Strong:
<STRONG> <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> I am so dissapointed in you <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Why is that? Because I didnt put it on myself <IMG SRC="smilies/question.gif" border="0">

[66CJdean]

Originally posted by Keith:
<STRONG>HEY! Stop all that fancy talking! Seriously though, for sure use a ladder bar type with a shackle at the front. Make sure to use a goofy shackle or heim joint, or johnny joint at the shackle end. Also, dont be afraid to make it too beefy.....Just ask Dean!</STRONG>
I second that! I am on my 3rd trackbar and hve a small bend in this new one too. One this last trackbar I made it out of 1.5dia.X.250wall tubing and it is pretty good.

[Qbert]

I'm gona tri and do it on Power Point se how it comes out.

[Qbert]

Man Fuck that I will take some normal pics. <IMG SRC="smilies/mad.gif" border="0">

[Rambler]

Originally posted by kutyafal:
<STRONG>I only have 5 leafs in the back that have about 2.5" of lift. I've heard others using the JC Whitney HD 6 leaf spring packs with good results. Would that cure the amount of wrap I have? I also heard that the HD CJ spring from JCW is 7 leafs but would that work on a YJ ?
Now the other solution is to fab up some traction bar system. Did anybody do that on a Ford 8.8 rear end? Should it be attached to the tubes or to the diff housing?
All ideas are welcome so let's have'em!</STRONG>

Extra leaves will not solve your problem. I have 10 leaf National packs and still had serious axle wrap until I built my ladder bar. It is similar to Sam's, but has one less joint and less free play in it. Absoluteely no binding because the front mount can lengthen/shorten about a foot and can rotate 360 degrees.
See it at http://www.cuebilt.com/axlewrap.htm

null (http://www.cuebilt.com/axlewrap.htm)

[FULLSIZE]

scouter, how could the pinion "not raise". parts mike traction bar reduces axle wrap, but does not eliminate it. if you have a stiff spring pack or not much power or small tires or a good drive line angle you wouldnt notice much axle wrap but i guarantee there is still some axle wrap there. <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">

[Scouter]

Originally posted by FULLSIZE:
<STRONG>scouter, how could the pinion "not raise". parts mike traction bar reduces axle wrap, but does not eliminate it. if you have a stiff spring pack or not much power or small tires or a good drive line angle you wouldnt notice much axle wrap but i guarantee there is still some axle wrap there. <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Fullsize, the PM bar DID eliminate ALL axle wrap! I ran it on a SOA flat fender with a 350 Chevy, sm420, spool in the rear and Detroit in the front with 35" and 36" tires. Have you ever tried the bar or understand how it works? The bar WILL NOT allow the pinion to raise.

[FULLSIZE]

i only use my freinds wrangler as an example, 39 in. boggers, 4" lift springs, soa and only has a 4.0 and his pinion still wraps up with the parts mike bar, not enough to bind the rear shaft but it still moves. i dont mean to get in a pissing match i just think the sams style works better. <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0">

[Scouter]

No, I’m not looking for a pissing match either <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> just sharing my experience with the PM bar and clarifying that I did have a little horsepower with a decent size tire, and some bad driveline angles with a rear 60. Has your friend called Mike to see if he can help fix the problem?

[FULLSIZE]

no, but i think his has to soft of a spring pack. i also dont think he set the bumpstop close enough, it has some gap between the bushing and the mount. <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0"> i have a similar mounting position(top of the diff to frame) and i had to add some 3/4 ton springs to my wrangler packs, still good flex but needed more rate. now at least it doesnt bind the rear u-joint. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

[BillaVista]

You can also have a look at my home brew sams style using tractor top links and some DOM tubing.
http://photos.yahoo.com/bcaliftan

in the "anti wrap bar" album