I would like to upgrade the axles on my sons 86 Sami. Currently am running 5 inch lift, 5.62 gears, Loc rights front and back, and a GRS II. Would like to run 33's and am considering new axles. I see alot of toyota swaps, but was wondering about Dana stuff to get away from birfields and get to a regular u-joint. What about a Dana 30 up front and a 44 in back. I believe late 70's and early 80's jeeps had passenger side diffs. How about spoa vs putting a 3 inch body lift on? Lets hear your thoughts.

I'm kinda building the same idea in the old mind as I dont have a sami yet. I'm going to find a d30 for the front and a 30 or 35 for the rear. spoa is the only lift worth doing body lifts suck maybe 1-2" max for a little extra clearance. I dont like the extra weight up high. just my .02 chuck

You'd be hard pressed to break a Toy Birfield with 33's under a Samurai. (It could be done, tho):D

+ Toy = Much easier swap.
+ Good width with stock Toy pickup axles.
+ Get better ground clearance than a D44.
+ No diff. cover.
+ Break lines pretty much work.
+ Driveshaft flanges work with a little modification.
- Gotta get different wheels.

Unless you got a set of offset Waggy axles for CHEAP, it's hard to see why not go Toyota.

I agree....If you want the cheap way to go, do Toy...
But I like the D44's.....But i have 37's to clear the pumpkins.....
Stay away from body lifts.....Get wrangler or wagoneer springs!

I have a 1" body lift just to clear the motor, but that is it!

Originally posted by 0ILBURNER
You'd be hard pressed to break a Toy Birfield with 33's under a Samurai. (It could be done, tho):D

+ Toy = Much easier swap.
+ Good width with stock Toy pickup axles.
+ Get better ground clearance than a D44.
+ No diff. cover.
+ Break lines pretty much work.
+ Driveshaft flanges work with a little modification.
- Gotta get different wheels.

Unless you got a set of offset Waggy axles for CHEAP, it's hard to see why not go Toyota.

1.toys are easier if you keep stock springs in a stock locaton but if you are swapping to wrangler springs (you should) then it is no easier.
2.toys have a good width if you want to keep your tires under the fender flares. if you want a wider, more stable stance then get the waggy's.
3. toys have better ground clearance, maybe but i'd like to have actual measurements. i keep seeing people post this but the d44 is not a very big diff. also if you take a grinder to the bottom lip of the dana44 and shave it then how about then. i bet it is about the same.
4. no diff cover???? who gives a sheeite? how many people running dana44's, 60's, 70's, etc run around complaining about having diff covers????
5. sami brake lines work on the waggy axles so that is no biggy.
6.toys and waggys have the same wheel pattern so same-same.
7. i will add that the waggy rear diff is offset like the sami's. not only is this good for drive line angles but some feel it is goot to have both pumpkins on the same side for clearnce reasons.

ok all of that said, yes the toys are good axles. they are a definate upgrade to the suzuki stuff. i just like to give an oposing view because it seems so many people here preach toyota axles and down play the waggy stuff. and by the way if the toyota axles are all that then why are mike schaffer and randy ellis (both top ten contenders in this past arca season) running waggy stuff? just stirring the pot a bit. :D

i'll take my toys any day. i'm 79" wide and have 14" of clearance under my diffs. :flipoff2:

OILBURNER: you said Toy swap is easyer. I might totally be missing something but Don't you need to at least swap the Transfer case to do the Toy swap? If I'm correct then how is it easyer then 44's. Againg I'm new to the Sammy stuff but...

My toy swap was pretty painless, L.C. axles. No worries about centering, or offset.:p

Originally posted by TJpwr
OILBURNER: you said Toy swap is easyer. I might totally be missing something but Don't you need to at least swap the Transfer case to do the Toy swap? If I'm correct then how is it easyer then 44's. Againg I'm new to the Sammy stuff but...

they don't swap the x-case. they just run the rear d/shaft at an angle. not too bad but a cv in the rear shaft is pretty much a must.

Originally posted by poppycock
i'll take my toys any day. i'm 79" wide and have 14" of clearance under my diffs. :flipoff2:

Ummmmmmmmmmmmm........... how much air are you running in those tire?:confused:

38.5x14.5 sx's at 22 psi

just remeasured... i stand corrected 13.8" under the diffs :flipoff2:

Toys, and I tell ya what. I fawk'n honk on my birfs and they have yet to give me a problem.

Originally posted by poppycock
i'll take my toys any day. i'm 79" wide and have 14" of clearance under my diffs. :flipoff2:

79" wide???? the toy axles are only like 55-56" wide so you must be running very little backspacing and wheel spacers to achieve this width. i say this because my dana60 and 14bolt are 62" wide. i run the same 38x14.50x15" tires you do and i have them on 15x10" rims with 3.5" bs and i am only 79.5" wide out isde of tire to outside of tire. if the toy axles are 56" wide you have 6" of width to make up somewhere. :eek:

Originally posted by poppycock
38.5x14.5 sx's at 22 psi

I was wondering where you were geting the extra inch. I don't think you will be running at 22 psi.......ever. Onroad maybe 12, more like 8. And on the trails at 2 or 3. This should bring your ground clearance to 13" on the street and around 12" on the trail. Still very respectable numbers, but first you have to get it out of the lane way...............:flipoff2:

Originally posted by poppycock
38.5x14.5 sx's at 22 psi

Yeah with 2" BS rims too!

Waggy axles im 78" wide, with a 37x13 bogger and a standard 4" BS rim 23 psi and 12 1/4 " clearance.....

yeah the tires came with 22 psi in them. these are driveway stats mudlight. :flipoff2: as far as the width i'm running 2.5" b.s. wheels with .75" spacers. i'm not really concerned with it. if it does become a problem the sacers gotsta go. mudlight how well do these tires squish with low pressure on your zuk?

Originally posted by high5
1.toys are easier if you keep stock springs in a stock locaton but if you are swapping to wrangler springs (you should) then it is no easier.
2.toys have a good width if you want to keep your tires under the fender flares. if you want a wider, more stable stance then get the waggy's.
3. toys have better ground clearance, maybe but i'd like to have actual measurements. i keep seeing people post this but the d44 is not a very big diff. also if you take a grinder to the bottom lip of the dana44 and shave it then how about then. i bet it is about the same.
4. no diff cover???? who gives a sheeite? how many people running dana44's, 60's, 70's, etc run around complaining about having diff covers????
5. sami brake lines work on the waggy axles so that is no biggy.
6.toys and waggys have the same wheel pattern so same-same.
7. i will add that the waggy rear diff is offset like the sami's. not only is this good for drive line angles but some feel it is goot to have both pumpkins on the same side for clearnce .


To address each of your points:
1. Stock Toy spring perches are designed for 2.5" wide springs - you must move the rear perches (or just add a 2nd pair) so I see the rear(s) are a wash, but I don't understand what you mean about the Dana being just as easy for the front. The Toy front end Bolts in place with either set of springs...

2.I run standard backspaced 10" beadlocks with 36" SX's - even with TJ front fender flares, literally 1/2 of my tire sticks out from under the flare.

3. Good idea on massaging that D44 lip - I will get some measurements to compare the clearances between the Dana & Toyota husings.

4.(For Me) it is easier & cheaper to add some plate to the front of a Toy housing for armor - If you are 'wheeling Hard and haven't munched your front diff. cover, You Will. Then you get to buy or make something more expensive/complicated to try and keep it from happening again.

5. You're telling me that the brake lines on a Samurai will literally screw in and work "right" on standard Dana calipers & drums? This is News to me.:confused:

6. Yes you get to keep Sam wheel pattern;)

7. Having the rear chunk centered SUCKS!!!:mad:


There are good points & bad points for either swap.

Originally posted by poppycock
yeah the tires came with 22 psi in them. these are driveway stats mudlight. :flipoff2: as far as the width i'm running 2.5" b.s. wheels with .75" spacers. i'm not really concerned with it. if it does become a problem the sacers gotsta go. mudlight how well do these tires squish with low pressure on your zuk?

I love them. I guess it depends on how much air you have in them. Will they go flat, yes. But don't forget, I run a 4.3. I know they where driveway stats. Thats why I corrected you. You will never see that clearance again.

Originally posted by 0ILBURNER



To address each of your points:
1. Stock Toy spring perches are designed for 2.5" wide springs - you must move the rear perches (or just add a 2nd pair) so I see the rear(s) are a wash, but I don't understand what you mean about the Dana being just as easy for the front. The Toy front end Bolts in place with either set of springs...

2.I run standard backspaced 10" beadlocks with 36" SX's - even with TJ front fender flares, literally 1/2 of my tire sticks out from under the flare.

3. Good idea on massaging that D44 lip - I will get some measurements to compare the clearances between the Dana & Toyota husings.

4.(For Me) it is easier & cheaper to add some plate to the front of a Toy housing for armor - If you are 'wheeling Hard and haven't munched your front diff. cover, You Will. Then you get to buy or make something more expensive/complicated to try and keep it from happening again.

5. You're telling me that the brake lines on a Samurai will literally screw in and work "right" on standard Dana calipers & drums? This is News to me.:confused:

6. Yes you get to keep Sam wheel pattern;)

7. Having the rear chunk centered SUCKS!!!:mad:


There are good points & bad points for either swap.


1> the reeason i said if you swap springs it makes them a "wash" is because the wrangler springs are longer and wider so new mounts for the frame are in order. when doing new mounts it will be no harder to mover them out a bit.

2. i prefer a 8" wide rim with a 12.50 tire just for bead retention reasons but that is me. i just got a dig camera so i'll try and get some pic's of one of my buddy's sami's with the waggy axles for a comparo pic.

3. do get some measurements because i'm curious. i have a buddy who runs a toy so if i see his rig soon i'll try and measure too.

4. as for plating the front diff cover you can do the same to a d44 diff cover. most front d44 come with a 1/8" thick front cover that takes alot of abuse. if you still want more protection you can still add metal too it like you mentioned doing to the toy. my 14bolt rear has a fairly thin rear cover and i added metal to it to increase it's bashability. easy and cheap to do. so it's a wash too.

5. yes sami brake lines will work with a d44. for the front waggy d44's two different banjo bolts for the calipers were used. one smaller than the other (what styles and years were different i'm not sure) one will fit and the other is only a bit larger. get the one that works or you can drill out the banjo fitting on the sami brake line to get the bolt to fit. not much needs to be remove because the hole is very close. i recomend finding a claiper that uses the smaller bolts though because it is just a bolt in then. for the rear the sami brake hose (metric) and the d44 brake lines (standard) share the same thread count. the waggy line fittings feel a little loose when threaded in but tighten up just fine. both of the guys with the d44's i know did this as well a others i have read about. works like a charm.

6. well i sai the waggoneer and the toy have the same 6lug pattern so a change of wheels is necessary for both.

:D