2 nights, and I have 6 of the 8 exhaust ports roughed.

5hp cast-iron 220 compressor + a 1hp cast-iron 2-stage and I have enough air to keep working continously, but the compressors sure seem to get hot. :D

Anyhow.. here's my progress.. feel free to criticize (duh!) or offer suggestions..

What I started with having to remove:

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery/albums/albun36/DCP_0027_004.sized.jpg

Plus the humps and other stuff.

Stock chamber side

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery/albums/albun36/DCP_0028_003.sized.jpg

More light, after working on the port

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery/albums/albun36/DCP_0010_008.sized.jpg

Unmolested exhaust port

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery/albums/albun36/DCP_0029_004.sized.jpg
http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery/albums/albun36/DCP_0015_007.sized.jpg

After I finished "roughing" (big grinding stone, exhaust port area only) the first head..

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery/albums/albun36/DCP_0006_008.sized.jpg

Basic plan is to remove the A.I.R. humps.

Open up the exhaust port (gasket match)

I think I'll also get the little "rib" that runs on the backside of the guide, opposite the port.

Interesting that pretty much all of the ported SV head pics I've seen didn't seem to have much done to the guide area near the port, just the opposite side.

Should be able to rough the last two ports tonight, then I can start looking at places that need smoothed a bit more.

I'm thinking of just leaving the intake ports alone, or perhaps I'll gasket match 'em. Dunno yet. I want to have the heads done Real Soon.. Monday would be nice. :D

Oh..

This is the passenger side 74/75 header..

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery/albums/albun36/DCP_0013_007.sized.jpg

And the driver's..

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery/albums/albun36/DCP_0022_005.sized.jpg


Head Pics (http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/postnuke/modules.php?set_albumName=albun36&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php&page=4)

Just finished mine 2 weeks ago.
Same theory. Open up exhaust blend the exhaust bowl and just gasket match the intake.
I also smoothed the oil return holes all the way trogh the head at the back end of both heads and on the block. And cleaned up around the plug holes for water drainage!
My new camera came in the day after I installed the motor. :(
homepage (http://www.picturetrail.com/hamilton-1)


http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL13/425234/1304219/27066372.jpg http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL13/425234/1304219/27066322.jpg http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL13/425234/1304219/27066272.jpg http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL13/425234/1304219/27066246.jpg homepage (http://www.picturetrail.com/hamilton-1)http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL13/425234/1304219/27322911.jpg

PS
I did find the valve guides to be a little long for the umbrella seals(Ford 460), so I cut them down a little. Once the FI is retuned I plan to go to the BB chevy springs and see what difference they will make.
Even half of the stock O-ring seals were hitting the retainers.

Bill
usn-1

Originally posted by Bill usn-1
Just finished mine 2 weeks ago.
Same theory. Open up exhaust blend the exhaust bowl and just gasket match the intake.
I also smoothed the oil return holes all the way trogh the head at the back end of both heads and on the block. And cleaned up around the plug holes for water drainage!


I was thinking of smoothing the returns, too.. forgot to mention that.

I'll also be painting the valley for better oil return. Don't think I'll paint the heads though.

I did polish the rods for better oil return.

http://pic3.picturetrail.com/VOL13/425234/1304219/27322911.jpg

Tell me more about the air filter setup. I'd like to find a "snorkel cap" like you have, and a cone filter is fine (or a regular round unit) but I want to be able to route the air inlet closer to the headlight and/or bottom of the grille area, and I don't want to spend a fortune on XYZ Kit and then get out the saw... :D

Originally posted by Bill usn-1
PS
I did find the valve guides to be a little long for the umbrella seals(Ford 460), so I cut them down a little. Once the FI is retuned I plan to go to the BB chevy springs and see what difference they will make.
Even half of the stock O-ring seals were hitting the retainers.

Bill
usn-1

I used the Perfect Circle seals on my 345. Not sure just what the reason for breaking rocker arms is, but I had the right combo. The PC seals run a little drier. Machinist didn't account for me running 1.7 rockers. Some of the rockers might've had a poor heat-treat.

All I know is I've lost ~6 exhaust rockers on that motor.. but never the same one twice.

I'm thinking of just using the O-rings on the 392 - can't even get PC seals for the .414 exhaust valves anyhow.

I'll have the machinist double check the guide and seal clearance this time - WITH 1.7 rockers taken into account with the cam.

I run the LS6 BBC springs on my 345 (and 304) and I'm very happy with them. Going with HO BBC springs on this 392, since I don't expect to zing it as hard. :D

EBAY my friend!!!!!
It's a knock off of the expensive ones but new was only 37.95.
I see them all the time on there.
For my trail scout, I thought of turning it back and running it thru the firewall with the filter under the dash for cool air and water protection.
BTW it is FI. the filter is listed for chevy trucks 88-??
Do a search for TBI and you should come up with one.
Would be real easy to convert to snorkle with some 3in PVC!!!

HTH
Bill
usn-1

Originally posted by Bill usn-1
EBAY my friend!!!!!
It's a knock off of the expensive ones but new was only 37.95.
I see them all the time on there.
For my trail scout, I thought of turning it back and running it thru the firewall with the filter under the dash for cool air and water protection.
BTW it is FI. the filter is listed for chevy trucks 88-??
Do a search for TBI and you should come up with one.
Would be real easy to convert to snorkle with some 3in PVC!!!

HTH
Bill
usn-1

I've seen those on Ebay. The $40 price tag was reasonable, but I wasn't sure how well it would adapt to what I want.

On my racer, I'd run it through the firewall where the heater used to be.

On my tow-rig, cold-air intake is what I want, and I canned the cowl induction idea (with the engine set-back, the support-free center of the hood is too far forward)

Wasn't sure how the K-truck setup would work on a Scout, and didn't want to be the first to try.

Hmmm.. add some 3" PVC.. sounds like a plan.

I presume it'll flow enough air...

You've seen the exhaust port!!!!
I don't think you can restrict the intake to much and affect those little things. But since PVC is thick wall, maybe some of the popular 3in exhaust pipe like the diesels run would be a better choice....HMM mandrel bends.......stainless steel........ :D :D

Originally posted by Bill usn-1
You've seen the exhaust port!!!!
I don't think you can restrict the intake to much and affect those little things. But since PVC is thick wall, maybe some of the popular 3in exhaust pipe like the diesels run would be a better choice....HMM mandrel bends.......stainless steel........ :D :D

I KNEW I needed something bigger than the JD2!

Just that anything that would bend 2.5 or 3" tube was SOOO much more expensive. :(

:D

I'll have to eyeball some PVC tonight and those Ebay snorkel kits again.

Originally posted by tsm1mt
.. feel free to criticize (duh!) or offer suggestions..





The pics suck.. but.. It looks like you’re afraid to grind the exhaust guide and “tulip” the seat area. But I can’t tell from the pics. If it’s a street motor then leave the guide but at least clean out (tulip) immediately down draft of the exhaust seat. Ol Scout posted a pic on the BB some time ago and mentioned the “ledge” in the TULIP zone. I can grab some pics from a recent motor project to better illustrate the TULIP zone

Originally posted by tsm1mt


I KNEW I needed something bigger than the JD2!

Just that anything that would bend 2.5 or 3" tube was SOOO much more expensive.



Semi Hossfeld compatible. You can go to 4 inches with little/easy mods… at least on my MDL4.. just gotta find the dies cheap

Originally posted by ol John Henry
Ol Scout posted a pic on the BB some time ago and mentioned the “ledge” in the TULIP zone. I can grab some pics from a recent motor project to better illustrate the TULIP zone

Before/After.

Originally posted by Old Scout


Before/After.

All of the links on the BB to that picture were dead. I searched. :D

So you did the port side of the guide. you ground the guide flush, right?

So the bottom of your guide would be cut at an angle, not "square" like stock.

Plus you got the edge opposite the port.

I haven't started going in through the valve yet - still working on the ports! :(

Originally posted by tsm1mt





So you did the port side of the guide. you ground the guide flush, right?

Yea I raised the fawk out of the roof!

So the bottom of your guide would be cut at an angle, not "square" like stock.
Nope the roof is flat.




Plus you got the edge opposite the port.


Nope I ground the fawk out of the roof! :D


I haven't started going in through the valve yet - still working on the ports! :(

Are you going to turn down the stems to match the shorter guides? Got bronze?

Originally posted by Old Scout

Are you going to turn down the stems to match the shorter guides? Got bronze?

It's still going back to the machine shop to finish the valve job when I'm done, so they get to deal with whatever adjustments are needed. :D

Not sure how much I'll work the guide. Hmmm..

Got the 8 exhaust ports "done" with the stone. I need to grab a smaller grinding stone before I go in through the valve.

Did get a few better pics (I think) of the progress thus far.

Untouched exhaust bowl

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery/albums/albun36/DCP_0021_006.sized.jpg

As much removed from the port side as I could reach.

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery/albums/albun36/DCP_0011_009.sized.jpg

That (brand new) guide sure does stick up a bunch..

this is a REALY crude scetch , but realy what you prob want to try to do is blent the valve guide rather than eliminate it. try to make it kindof tear drop shaped, that way you dont get the turbulace on the back side of the valve at the port roof. think wing hspe rather than rod shaped.

There is no reason not to flush the guilde. There is plenty of guide to support the valve and your not going to be running a radical lift were a short guides side load can cause valve wobble.

It's all about making power, so what if I need a valve job in 100k vs 120k.

my only thought is that if you have radicly raised the roof of the port directly above the valve, you tend to get a large cross section there, and the exhaust slows back down then has to speed back up. when it does this, the air flow has less of a tendency to to be directional and linier. so if there isnt a vane of some sort it usualy winds up slaming into the roof then trying to change direction, causing a loos of volocity, and energy.

its kind of like the concept of " turtles" that racers epoxy to the floor of the intake manifold to help ease the directional change directly under the carb.

Originally posted by T1H5_TA3
my only thought is that if you have radicly raised the roof of the port directly above the valve, you tend to get a large cross section there, and the exhaust slows back down then has to speed back up. when it does this, the air flow has less of a tendency to to be directional and linier. so if there isnt a vane of some sort it usualy winds up slaming into the roof then trying to change direction, causing a loos of volocity, and energy.

its kind of like the concept of " turtles" that racers epoxy to the floor of the intake manifold to help ease the directional change directly under the carb.

Slamming into the roof?? :laughing: Most of what your stating are concerns on the intake side.

Here is Toms pic with the "line" I ported too. The port has a considerable better radius after porting so you vane theory seems mute.

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery/albums/albun36/DCP_0029_005.sized.jpg

About the only "finished" picture I got - batteries failed on me Sunday.

I didn't raise the roof like OS. I just grooved a little and polished around the sides of the guide, and smoothed the port side of the guide a bit.

Also got the "lip" behind the valve cleaned up some.

Couldn't do much about the valve shrouding, either..

http://tigger.tmcom.com/~tsm1/gallery/albums/albun36/DCP_0026_006.sized.jpg

But in any case.. I'm done. They're going to the machine shop at lunch. Hopefully they won't balk when I tell 'em I want 'em back by July 3rd so I can start the motor swap on the 4th weekend.

No racing for me over the 4th.. or the 28th for that matter :(

Originally posted by Bill usn-1
EBAY my friend!!!!!
It's a knock off of the expensive ones but new was only 37.95.
I see them all the time on there.


Bill - how well does it clear the hood? I see that it goes OVER the p/s pump.. but that's a SII pump.. I'm thinking of one for my pickup, but it has the big round "coffee can" pump that sits up high.. hmmmm...

Tom, in case you didn't realize it, that air cleaner thing is for a GM throttle body. You'd probably have to adapt it fit a carb, but that's probably no big deal.

Originally posted by TORC
Tom, in case you didn't realize it, that air cleaner thing is for a GM throttle body. You'd probably have to adapt it fit a carb, but that's probably no big deal.

I was thinking the 88-95 (?) TBIs use the same 5 1/4" throat as your typical 4bbl carb.

My Projection TBI uses the same air filter housing as my carb..

The Ford kits will NOT fit a carb - much too small, from the ones at the parts store. But the GM kit looks like it uses the same throat..

It just might..... I have no idea.

Hey Tom nice work. Guess I'm a little late but do you have before and after flow numbers?

Here some links flow bench #/head pics hope they work there getting old. There non-IH but there nice to look at.


http://www.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=QuestionAnswer&Number=269721&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=2&fpart=1


http://www.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=QuestionAnswer&Number=267785&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=2&fpart=1

Also what cam are you going with? probably could up the duration some over your old cam.

wp

Originally posted by twodafloor
Hey Tom nice work. Guess I'm a little late but do you have before and after flow numbers?


No flow numbers. :( I do have Dave Sr's flow file for a set of stock 392 heads.. but no one in Helena offers flow-benching, and despite starting this project over a year ago, I'm down to the wire. :D

I've lost all of my "in progress" pictures for the time being.. hoping I can recover SOMETHING from the dead 60gig drive. :( :(


Also what cam are you going with? probably could up the duration some over your old cam.

wp

Isky 256in/262ex

With the rockers n' such, about .496" exhaust lift. I don't remember the intake lift, but ~.030" less.

110lbs of seat pressure.. I'm hoping that's adequate. I run 155lbs on my 345, but I don't plan to zing the tow-rig motor up as high as the trail rig mill.

Picked up the heads yesterday and I'm all-but ready to button it up. Hope to install this weekend.

Still need to get my head dowels and pilot n' throwout bearings tonight.

Oh hell I thought this was for the race mill.

Did Dave Sr. do his heads on his own flow bench?

His numbers seemed like way high to me.
Something about 400+ cfm numbers after that I kinda checked out. Hell Big Chief chevy heads might flow that.

The new small chevy heads flow about 250 in at .500 lift just to use as a guage.

Well good luck.
If you want I can check a place around hear maybe. Just guessing it would probably be $60 plus you would have to ship them here to the place in TN.

wp