Hey guys, chew on this:

You take a standard Samurai front housing, and use a large tubing cutter to remove the flanges at the end of the tubes. DIsregard the knuckles & all. Slide/press some round tubing over the housing tubes for extra strength.

To the side, you got a nice Dana 44 from whatever vehicle - say a Scout (matching lug pattern). You cut the outer flanges off of it, and weld them onto the Sam housing. Then you do some careful measuring, and have the stock inner axles machined to fit a Rear Samurai chunk. Also there is a kit so that you can put seals out near the ujoints on the D44. Custom brake lines.

So you would wind up with the clearance of the Samurai diff & D44 axles. Iz this doable?

I was looking at that "Big Suzanna" front end that Trail Tough is making, and it looks like he's doing basically this, except he's using a big 'ol aluminum adapter on each side so you can bolt the factory Suzuki spindles on & keep stock calipers, Etc. Seemed like a bunch of expensive extra stuff to me...

I know this is the Suzuki board, but this is a good example, and I know more about Yotas. :p

This is the same thing that lots of people (i.e. - AllPro) has been doing to Toy axles for some time. It's worthwhile if you're doing it yourself (like you say) but a dumb idea to pay someone for it.

By the time you have paid them for labor, the custom axles and such, and so on, you now have a hella-expensive front axle. (On a href="http://www.allprooffroad.com/d60.html">AllPro's axle page</a>, the D44 hybrid is $4,000, and it's $4,300 for the D60 hybrid.) :eek:

For 4,000, you can easily swap a pair of D60s into a Toyota. Now you have a mammoth ring gear, axleshafts, and more importantly, FAT u-joints instead of the birfields. I think this likely hold true of the Samurai. If you're a dedicatied "keep it Sammy" guy, you could use a sammy axle with D44 ends. But why cut up the D44 instead of put it under the rig? Sure, you might need to run 35 instead of 33s to make up for the clearance, but you will break FAR less with 35s on a D-44 than you would with 33s on a Sammy axle. Plus it's wider, so it's more stable.

Besides, you would still have a sammy diameter shaft where it went into the carrier of the axle - and I think either that or the R&P would now be your weak link. Personally, I would rather replace the Birf.

Yes, but consider the relative ground clearances:

Stock Samurai diffs w/ 32's
Stock Toyota diffs w/ 33's
D44 w/ 35's
D60 w/ 36's

-OR-

Hybird D44/Samurai with 35's? THAT's a lot of ground clearance!
Brent at TT runs 35's with his hybrid $600+ Birf's.

Ya I agree it would most likely Not be something you'd wanna Buy, but hypothetically if you could do it yourself, you would only have the cost of obtaining the D44, the seal kit, brake lines,and re-splining the inner axle shafts. That wouldn't be over the cost of the fancy-schmancy super-samurai-Birfield axles alone.

well if i remember right he is using a tracker rear for the center and 44 knuckles. its a up grade but still pretty small axle. why bother just cut down a 44 and be money ahead. mike

Yes, the TT hybrid is a Tracker rear centersection with D44 outers and shafts. I want one bad! Anybody know how much it is going to be going for yet? ~Steve

Originally posted by gunracer1
well if i remember right he is using a tracker rear for the center and 44 knuckles. its a up grade but still pretty small axle. why bother just cut down a 44 and be money ahead. mike

That's what I'm trying to say - if you had a D44 and could do what I'm talking about, it wouldn't cost any more than cutting down a Dana! And you would have a LOT more ground clearance than a D44.

Brent uses Sidekick rear 3rd members because he has plenty of them around - if you use them you may as well just go with Toy axles. The Samurai rear chunk has larger axles than the front - that'd be the one to try first. Yeah, it wouldn't be Bulletproof, but you would be a ble to Walk through a lot of places guys with 38's and D60's gotta muscle through 'cause they are dragging their chunks Everywhere.

it just seems like alot of work with out much gain. i mean you have samuria or land cruiser, or wagoneer axles with the off set diff you are way ahead of many rigs that have a centered diff. if you chose you lines you are miles ahead already. with out all the work and hassel. it would be kind of cool but i just don't think it would be worth the hassel. unless it was going in a ultra light buggy then you would have something. mike

HI -

I guess I have to chime in on this one. A couple of the important points are being missed here. First of all, the reason for using the Sidekick center section is NOT because I have a bunch of them laying around. But rather because I can put an ARB in it with custom side gears and increase the inner axle shaft diameter substantially. The reason for the "BIG ALUMINUM ADAPTORS" is that it needs to house a bearing and seal surface - it is not just an adaptor. The reason I bother - as was almost touched on in this thread - is because WEIGHT DOES MATTER!! I don't want a 400 lb Dana 44 front end with 1/2" wall thickness tubes in my Samurai. I LOVE the lightweight, nimble aspects of a Samurai that makes it special. I want components that enhance that aspect plus provide more than enough strength. So, we designed a unit that weighs 200 lbs. And guess what....it is NOT $4,000.00. As a matter of fact, loaded with 4.62 or 5.12 gears
AND Hy-steer steering AND brand new chrome moly inner and outer axles, the base price is only $1500.00. Lockers are additional. For the guy with the original post, personally I think it was a great idea! And once you tried it, I think you would find that you would have to build it just exactly how we did it because you can't just re-machine Dana 44 axles - you would machine right through the case hardened area and the splines would twist right off. You can't avoid the aluminum adaptors - you have to have a bearing that will fit a 44 axle. We chose to do 44 components as opposed to 30's because the u-joints are larger and every year I see Jeff Stevens aka Dirtsquirrel at the Rubicon changing a Dana 30 front axle.

why not just use a 44 and shave it some? seems to me like the sammy or sidekick r+p would become a problem relativly fast.

Why waste money on a hybrid alxe of this sort when you can run a stock toy axle that the weight is close and have 30 spline shafts comperable to a dana 44. Toy R+P's are cheeper and stronger and if you do break a shaft you can go get one from a local wrecking yard for quite a bit cheeper than a custom shaft. I run with a couple sammy's with these diffs and have had no problems with lots of abuse. The only reason I see possibly running these axles is if you want to compete at an NWRCA event and actually fit between the flags. Or you can buy a waggy 44 rear out of a quadratrac equipped jeep. I know where there are 2 of them for $200.00 each. Yes its wider, which is better for more stability. With this low cost setup for the rear you can almost afford to upgrade the front within $1500 if you have a few good resources.

Originally posted by Trail Tough


We chose to do 44 components as opposed to 30's because the u-joints are larger and every year I see Jeff Stevens aka Dirtsquirrel at the Rubicon changing a Dana 30 front axle.

Not sure where you get your info. the newer Danna 30 axles have the same U-joint as the danna 44's, a 297.:flipoff2:

I totally agree with Brent, it's a weight thing. I plan on keeping my Zuk as lightweight as possible.

I'm not ready for the D44 hybrid yet, but I am interested in learning more about the 26 spline/Subaru Birf front axles.... I'll e-mail you...

Anyone know the strength diff's between the Sidekick and the Toy?

Well how about this axle idea!
Some waggys front have diffs. on the drivers side and some on the passenger side . use the one with drivers side diff in the back and passenger diff in the front. That way you only need to carry half as many spare axle parts. :question:

http://www.extreme4x4.com/vol7num8/super_samurai/index.html

this is a site about dean bullock and the tale of his d-44 samurai. he competes in UROC here in utah. anyway he runs full width d-44 axles with ARB all around i believe. we also haev a young guy that runs stock axles with sidekick third members and the 5:38 or whatever gears that come stock in the stick-kicks. i have seen both of these guys in action and i know from the competetions that UROC is about as hardcore as it gets this side of ARCA and these guys pull it off with ease. Dean took 9th in the finals out of 40 rigs. despite some bad luck bending his draglink with his power steering conversion, he spanked a lot of people just because he had tremendous amounts of unsprung weight. his center of gravity is so low that he can get incredibly off camber and vertical without having typical samurai fears of flopping over. IMHO unsprung weight is more important that the difference in ground clearence between a zuk diff and a d-44 diff. the d-44 diff is lighyears tougher as a housing than our tin zuk housings. you can drag em over rocks all day and they keep coming for more. if you look at my zuk diffs the wrong way, they get another dent in them. from my experience watching some of the toughest 4x4 competitions in the USA, the sacrifice of ground clearence is negligable VS. the all around toughness of a d-44 under your zuk. i am the kind of guy that likes to spend time on the trail rather than in the shop wrenching. my zuk axles will do me fine for now, but when the money is better and i start competing, i am going for the d-44 action!

Originally posted by zuknut
Well how about this axle idea!
Some waggys front have diffs. on the drivers side and some on the passenger side . use the one with drivers side diff in the back and passenger diff in the front. That way you only need to carry half as many spare axle parts. :question:

I am hoping that you are Joking? But if not, the reason this wouldn't work is the weak link on the 44's is the joint. Why use a weak joint on the rear that takes 70% of the load?

Would be nice to have rear steer though! Just need a bigger axle to do it right.

Not sure why you wouldn't just use a waggy year that has both axles passenger side?

Originally posted by fatkid
Anyone know the strength diff's between the Sidekick and the Toy?

That's an Excellent question Fatty - I have heard of people grenading each, but usually with 'questionable' r&p set-ups:rolleyes: and 5+ gearing.



I wondered how long it would take you to speak up, Brent:D
Now we know what kinda Jack we're lookin' at for your hybrid axle. Trick idea w/ the custom ARB sidegears:grinpimp: What is the upcharge to go to that ARB? Have you tried it with an EZ Locker or such?

I am cornfused about the aluminum adapters, though. Seems like you could literally use from the knuckle out from the D44 and I guess now you'd have to buy custom inner axles;)

Have you tried shaving the bottom of the 'Kick housing like All Pro does on their Toy diff's?

if you snap anything on your d-44 axles with zuk power, you need to pick another hobby. i have never seen a d-44 equipped zuk kill anything on a d-44 axle. that said, putting a rear steer setup on a zuk might change things. i dont know how much punishment a front axle could withstand on the rear of a vehicle. i bet you could get away with it though! i bet a zuk would be just fine with a d-44 front axle under the rear. hmmmmmm now yall got me thinkin! :confused: :rasta: :roxy: :cool:

Nope not kidding have a few of these. The joint I can fix but just doesn't last long on the street. ( solid no needle bearings use bronze bushing or brass with a custom made 4340 cross section)
Thought it would be something different and I would also have disc brakes and be able to unlock the rear if needed.
As far as axle strength can always buy stronger ones when I run out of old used ones.
Just something for me to talk about.

Originally posted by zuknut
Nope not kidding have a few of these. The joint I can fix but just doesn't last long on the street. ( solid no needle bearings use bronze bushing or brass with a custom made 4340 cross section)
Thought it would be something different and I would also have disc brakes and be able to unlock the rear if needed.
As far as axle strength can always buy stronger ones when I run out of old used ones.
Just something for me to talk about.

But why bother? WHY not use an offset passenger rear waggy diff? Seems like alot os work for nothing? Everything you mention can be done to a rear 44.

Just thinking about carrying spare parts this way I would only nees two axles and one hub and spindle assy.

Here's my 0.02

First off 30s do not use the same joint as a 44. 30s come stock with the 257x not 297x, but cant be upgraded to run 297x with custom axles from people like Superior with a "super 30" kit.

Second you can buy an Allpro housing with shafts for $1150, I know, I bought one. I built it with high end new everything, and a scrounged fj80 hipinion drop out and custom cast knuckles histreer etc for around $2200, which aint cheap, but a lot less than $4000

I like the simplicity and beef of open knuckles, plus increased turning,with the high clearance of a toy housing and a million choices for gears etc.

If you dont wanna go REAL wide the TT set up look like a cool alternative to me.

Doesn't Tim Hardy run modified Dana side gears in his Samurai rear end so he can run larger dia. Ford axles?
This would be the ticket to use up front with the Super 30 custom axles....

if i remember right he uses dana 44 spider gears and some custom axles. because it stuck in my head. so i picked up a set of dana 44 spiders that a friend had laying around to play with. but i have never tried it yet. mike

Originally posted by mudlite


I am hoping that you are Joking? But if not, the reason this wouldn't work is the weak link on the 44's is the joint. Why use a weak joint on the rear that takes 70% of the load?

Would be nice to have rear steer though! Just need a bigger axle to do it right.

Not sure why you wouldn't just use a waggy year that has both axles passenger side?

Why worry about the "weak" 5-297x Dana44 joint........its still prob. stronger than your stock sammy rear shafts.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by scwafish
[B]Here's my 0.02

. 30s come stock with the 257x not 297x],

260x joint on all early 30s.

Originally posted by scwafish
Here's my 0.02

First off 30s do not use the same joint as a 44. 30s come stock with the 257x not 297x, but cant be upgraded to run 297x with custom axles from people like Superior with a "super 30" kit.

Second you can buy an Allpro housing with shafts for $1150, I know, I bought one. I built it with high end new everything, and a scrounged fj80 hipinion drop out and custom cast knuckles histreer etc for around $2200, which aint cheap, but a lot less than $4000

I like the simplicity and beef of open knuckles, plus increased turning,with the high clearance of a toy housing and a million choices for gears etc.

If you dont wanna go REAL wide the TT set up look like a cool alternative to me.

Interesting. My GF's TJ has a D30 and it takes 297's. Pre 92 YJ's came with 257's. Maybe you should look harder.:mad3:

Originally posted by spencurai
if you snap anything on your d-44 axles with zuk power, you need to pick another hobby. i have never seen a d-44 equipped zuk kill anything on a d-44 axle. that said, putting a rear steer setup on a zuk might change things. i dont know how much punishment a front axle could withstand on the rear of a vehicle. i bet you could get away with it though! i bet a zuk would be just fine with a d-44 front axle under the rear. hmmmmmm now yall got me thinkin!

Mike Shaffer broke two (that I know of)front waggy 44 axles. And are you joking about the front Samurai for rear steer? 22 spline+ birfield= boat anchor.:confused:

i was talking about a front d-44 for a rear steer not a front zuk axle for a rear steer. that would be unwise. a 4 wheel steer zuk would be able to turn around in one parking space at wal-mart!!:eek: i bet a front zuk axle for a rear steer would last all of 30 secs on the trail:nuke:

I think brent came out with a sweet product for someone that wants to buy something and bolt it up! It is light, wider than stock and gives you a stronger axle......But even with all of that it all depends on the trails that you run, the motor that you have, and the size tire that you run....
I dont think that a sidekick would hold up to 37's for very long....At least not the 5.12's....I may be wrong but the kick is still a small R&P!
Yeah i did add a whole bunch of weight when i did the D44's but i KNOW that i will not bust these things....I got tires of breaking birfields and R&P's!
and honestly, if i would have stayed with the stock motor, and 33's, i would have bought brents axle in a heart beat!
1500 bucks with high steer!!! that is cheap! ( for something bolt in)

Originally posted by spencurai
i was talking about a front d-44 for a rear steer not a front zuk axle for a rear steer. that would be unwise. a 4 wheel steer zuk would be able to turn around in one parking space at wal-mart!!:eek: i bet a front zuk axle for a rear steer would last all of 30 secs on the trail:nuke:

WOO! ok I'm on board now:D I'd like to see a rear steer on a Zuk. If I had the money i'd do it..

Originally posted by Bill4rest


Mike Shaffer broke two (that I know of)front waggy 44 axles. And are you joking about the front Samurai for rear steer? 22 spline+ birfield= boat anchor.:confused:

did he break the shafts or the joints? yes i realize when you break the joint it usually leads to broken shaft ears but was the joint responsible for the breakage? just curious.

Originally posted by high5


did he break the shafts or the joints? yes i realize when you break the joint it usually leads to broken shaft ears but was the joint responsible for the breakage? just curious.

When I broke my front axle(s), the first time I killed the inner shaft where it goes into the carrier. The second time the whole thing exploded...inner shaft, ujoint and stub. The 3rd time was just a ujoint...I need a 60...

:trooper:

Brent- Up to what size tire do you recommend with your new axle? I want to run 35x12.50's (probably MT/R's) down the road and am very interested in this axle. $1500 sounds pretty darn reasonable for a bolt-in axle like this. Could it stand up to the 35's?
Are you in the works for anything for the rear to match it, or do you have something available already that I don't know about? Again, I want something that will stand up to 35's.
One more... what's the bolt pattern on the new axle? I need to keep my 5x5.5 because I already spent way too much on my wheels (MRT beadlocks). Thanks for any info. ~Steve

hay bill


a good friend is doing that rear steer with toy axels its going to bee sweet :massey:

Hi -

The custom ARB upgrade is $649.00 and allows the use of a 27 spline axle. To do it with E-Z lockers, it requires the use of a 26 spline chrome moly inner axle which is more than sufficient for a 35" tire when used in the front. Yes, you could use from the knuckle out on a Dana 44 but those components would make up a good portion of the weight we are trying to avoid with the Big Suz-Ana. It also simplifies the 5x5.5 bolt pattern issue. This also makes for a less expensive purchase because people can provide their own Samurai spindles, hubs, rotors, and calipers. I did look at the option of shaving the bottom of the Sidekick housing, but determined there was no room for improvement.

Hi Steve -

Yes, the purpose of these axles is to run 35's. It requires the use of YOUR Samurai spindles, hubs, calipers, and rotors so the bolt pattern will remain the same right down to the thread pitch in the lug nuts. We have built many rear ends that match but they are not on our web page - it is just a custom thing that we offer to those who ask for it. It offers a Sidekick center section, Ford flanged axles - 27 spline for ARB or 28 spline for spool - uses the small Ford wheel bearing, and disc brakes. With a spool, the assembly with gears, caliper brackets, and axles included the price is $1500.00. With an ARB it is $1950.00.

Originally posted by Trail Tough
Hi Steve -

Yes, the purpose of these axles is to run 35's. It requires the use of YOUR Samurai spindles, hubs, calipers, and rotors so the bolt pattern will remain the same right down to the thread pitch in the lug nuts.

Brent, I have a question about this....
if we use our stock Zuk parts...is there a stronger locking hub?

I am just thinking, here is a great product.....why use the weaker Zuk parts on it? Man it sucked on the Con when I saw 3 of them shoot off.....good thing we brought spares.

I know 6 bolt wheels are easy to find.....could this be made with those in mind at the same cost..if a guy wanted them?

or am I nuts?.....


you don't have to answer the last question

What i did with my D44's to keep the 5x5.5 bolt pattern was to use a 78 F150 hub and rotor assembly ($30 from Carquest) and then i switched to disk brakes in the back (88 IFS 1/2 ton light duty chevy front rotors, with 88 malibu calipers) and then had the rear axles machines to have the new 5 lug outers put on them, when they came back i drilled out the rear rotors for the 5 lug....
For the front you should by new rotor and calaper anyways, the ford stuff was a whole lot cheaper than the wagoneer was!

Originally posted by Trail Tough
Hi Steve -

Yes, the purpose of these axles is to run 35's. It requires the use of YOUR Samurai spindles, hubs, calipers, and rotors so the bolt pattern will remain the same right down to the thread pitch in the lug nuts. We have built many rear ends that match but they are not on our web page - it is just a custom thing that we offer to those who ask for it. It offers a Sidekick center section, Ford flanged axles - 27 spline for ARB or 28 spline for spool - uses the small Ford wheel bearing, and disc brakes. With a spool, the assembly with gears, caliper brackets, and axles included the price is $1500.00. With an ARB it is $1950.00.

Thanks for the info. I will be contacting you guys in the future about the axles, but need to accomplish a few other things first (like finishing my YJ swap :rolleyes: ). ~Steve

Hi Dave -

It can be made any way you want - with Dana outers it saves a whole lot of machine work and alot of expense. It doesn't accomplish my goal - it adds a little over 75 lbs. I don't see many Samurai hubs break - 6 bolts shear off, which could be remedied by hardened studs, although I don't choose that remedy. 6 sheared off bolts takes me about 15 minutes to change and costs me about a dollar - which is much cheaper than an outer shaft, birfield, or a u-joint.

I know this is an old post, but trying to figure out how to seal up a hybrid and this is the only post I could find on it. How do you seal the internal axle, when using a 44 axle in a sidekick rear?

I'd imagine you'd have to fabricate a seal holder in the axle housing,close to the diff.
Use the seal surface on the Dana shaft as a guide to where the holder will go.

The way I read it, there's a kit for the '44 that puts the seal out at the knuckle instead of at the punkin'. The reference is in this thread, but I'm not a big '44 guy, so I might have misunderstood it.

Interesting read regardless of age. FWIW I think it was worth a bump, Cahdealme.