I thought this was a cool contraption . I have seen several sites showing how to make this with great sucess ,,,
Bear
Another site http://www.buchanan1.net/rust.html


Q. What is the method?
A. A technique for returning surface rust to iron. It uses the effect of a small low voltage electric current and a suitable electrolyte (solution).

Q. What advantages does the method have over the old standbys, like vinegar, Coke, muriatic acid, Naval Jelly, wire brushing, sand blasting etc. ?


A. These methods all remove material to remove the rust, including un-rusted surfaces. With many, the metal is left with a "pickled"look or a characteristic color and texture. The electrolytic method removes nothing: by returning surface rust to metallic iron, rust scale is loosened and can be easily removed. Un-rusted metal is not affected in any way.


Q. What about screws, pivots, etc that are "rusted tight"? A. The method will frequently solve these problems, without the need for force, which can break things. Q. Is it safe?

A. The solutions used are not hazardous; the voltages and currents are low, so there is no electrical hazard. No noxious fumes are produced. The method is self limiting: it is impossible to overclean an object.

Q. Where did this method come from?

A. Electrolysis is a standard technique in the artifact restoration business. I wrote this up for the Chronicle of the Early American Industries Association a few years back. Most of the tool collectors around here use it:

Q. What do I need?

A. A plastic tub; a stainless steel or iron electrode, water and washing soda (NOT baking soda!!) and a battery charger. About a tablespoon of soda to a gallon of water. If you have trouble locating the washing soda, household lye will work just fine. It's a tad more nasty--always wear eye protection and be sure to add the lye to the water (NOT water to lye!!!) The solution is weak, and is not harmful, though you might want to wear gloves.

Q. How long does the solution last?

A. Forever, though the loosened rust will make it pretty disgusting after a while. Evaporation and electrolysis will deplete the water from the solution. Add water ONLY to bring the level back.

Q. What about the iron electode?

A.The iron electrode works best if it surrounds the object to be cleaned, since the cleaning is "line of sight" to a certain extent. The iron electode will be eaten away with time. Stainless steel has the advantage (some alloys, but not all) that it is not eaten away.

Q. How do I connect the battery charger?

A.THE POLARITY IS CRUCIAL!! The iron or stainless electrode is connected to the positive (red) terminal. The object being cleaned, to the negative(black). Submerge the object, making sure you have good contact, which can be difficult with heavily rusted objects.

Q. How do I know if it is working?

A. Turn on the power. If your charger has a meter, be sure come current is flowing. Again, good electrical contact may be hard to make-it is essential. Fine bubbles will rise from the object.

Q.. How long do I leave it?

A. The time depends on the size of the object and of the iron electrode, and on the amount of rust. You will have to test the object by trying to wipe off the rust. Ir it is not completely clean, try again. Typical cleaning time for moderately rusted objects is a few hours. With heavily rusted objects can be left over night.

Q. How do I get the rust off after I remove the object?

A. Rub the object under running water. A paper towel will help. For heavily rusted objects, a plastic pot scrubber can be used, carefully. Depending on the amount of original rust, you may have to re-treat.

Q. My object is too big to fit. Can I clean part of it?

A. Yes. You can clean one end and then the other. Lap marks should be minimal if the cleaning was thorough.

Q. After I take it out, then what?

A. The clean object will acquire surface rust very quickly, so wipe it dry and dry further in a warm oven or with a hair dryer. You may want to apply a light oil or a coat of wax to prevent further rusting.

Q. Will the method remove pitting?

A. No. It only operates on the rust in immediate contact with unrusted metal. What's gone is gone.

Q. What will it look like when I am done?

A. The surface of rusted metal is left black. Rusted pits are still pits. Shiny unrusted metal is untouched.

Q. What about nickle plating, paint, japanning and the like?

A. Sound plating will not be affected. Plating under which rust has penetrated will usually be lifted. The solution may soften some paints. Test with a drop of solution in an inconspicuous place. Remove wood handles if possible before treating.

Q. How can I handle objects that are awkward to clean?

A. There are lots of variants: suspending an electrode inside to clean a cavity in an object; using a sponge soaked in the electrolyte with a backing electrode to clean spots on large objects or things that shouldn't be submerged (like with lots of wood)

Q. How can I dispose of the solution?

A. The bath will last until it gets so disgusting that you decide it is time for a fresh one. There is nothing especially nasty about it-it's mildly basic-so disposal is not a concern, except you may not want all the crud in your drains.

Q. Can I use metal containers?

A. This is highly risky. Galvanized metal can introduce zinc into the solution. If you have used lye, it will attack aluminum. You may have problems with electrical shorts, etc. Stick to plastic.

Q. How can I clean odd shaped objects?

A. Be ingenious. Plastic PVC pipe and eave troughs, wooden boxes with poly vapor barrier

--------------------

Q. Why should I care?

A. Because all that UNSIGHTLY RUST on my Jeep might offend the delicate sensibilities of my little friends at the mall...

<IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

I'll have the spam-bacon-spam-eggs-and-spam please.

Originally posted by AzJeep:
<STRONG>I'll have the spam-bacon-spam-eggs-and-spam please.</STRONG>

http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s/contrib/ruinkai/spam1.gif http://www.freakygamers.com/smilies/s/contrib/ruinkai/spam1.gif

[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: 1220 ]

I'll have the spam-bacon-spam-eggs-and-spam please.

Really? I love spam, I'm having spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam eggs and spam ....with extra spam.


Oh...and don't skimp on the spam! <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

What are you loopy and stupid ???? I'm not selling any thing . What spam . This is a do it your self cleaning contraption . Oh I'm sorry they dont sell it at the mall . You have to get off your dead A$$ and figure it out . My mistake . No one who replyed thus far hear restores their jeep . It would work great for rusted engine parts Or small parts where a sander cant reach . It also makes stuck rusted parts movable .The Mall is the right place for your TJs anyway Spam my left nut !!!
Bear
<IMG SRC="smilies/devil.gif" border="0">

[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: The Bear ]

What is this rust you speak of??? I live in Arizona! and you're right no one here restores jeeps <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by YDB:
<STRONG>What is this rust you speak of??? I live in Arizona! and you're right no one here restores jeeps <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Ok lets go back and reread Again REREAD the post.. Now can you see it wasent a blanket statement about everyone here <STRONG> No one who replyed thus far hear restores their jeep <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

Bear

Thanks for the info Bear.

<STRONG>I thought it would help out some . Some have too much time to read comic books instead of setting up our rigs .
thanks
Bear.</STRONG>

[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: The Bear ]

Originally posted by The Bear:
<STRONG>What are you loopy and stupid ???? I'm not selling any thing . What spam ....
[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: The Bear ]</STRONG>

Sorry, but your post reads just like an infomercial.

[ 10-09-2001: Message edited by: AzJeep ]

cool info.

sounds alot like electroplate process...

it works!

i'll try an have pics up on my site in the next 4-5 days.

*gets out a big sponge and starts on his frame rails...*

i used it on some hubcaps and a steel rim and some old drill bits. good stuff. now i just have to try an remember how to zinc-galvanize stuff...

Thanks for the great info, Bear.
I'm going to try it on some of my older tools and a pair of '70s knuckles ...

Don't let those stupid, ignorant and lazy spam lovers bother you.
Stupid because they can't see the potential of it ... hell they don't have any old parts or tools anyway ...
Ignorant because they can't grasp the concept.
And lazy because either they lead people to think their old rusty crates are cool or they go out and buy new so they won't get thier hands dirty.
Those mall crawlers belong back at JU.
<IMG SRC="smilies/flipoff.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/jester.gif" border="0">

Don't get your panties in a twist <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">
I was only jaggin' him...
Maybe you should take you overly sensitive, easily hurt feelings to JU instead, OK ?

Good information is always appreciated, even though I don't have to concern my TJ drivin', mall crawlin' ass with what he offered right now.

Quit being so "Namby Pamby"
<IMG SRC="smilies/girly.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by 1220:
<STRONG>Don't get your panties in a twist <IMG SRC="smilies/rolleyes.gif" border="0">
I was only jaggin' him...
Maybe you should take you overly sensitive, easily hurt feelings to JU instead, OK ?

Good information is always appreciated, even though I don't have to concern my TJ drivin', mall crawlin' ass with what he offered right now.

Quit being so "Namby Pamby"
<IMG SRC="smilies/girly.gif" border="0"></STRONG>


no value added 1220. it is a cool idea. why would you call that spam anyway.

that wasn't flaming it was being a moron. if you are just going to flame people all the time than maybe you should be at ju. this is jeep talk, not trash talk. if it is a stupid post then go for it. if not leave it alone or add too it.

dave

Agreed...

TY bearrrr I live in Rust country now.. YUKKKKK (Ohio)

Maybe I can build a BIG ASS tank to drive into and just do my whole rig like twice a year or something... hmmmm


question... long ago I saw in JC Whitney a product that kept a small electrical charge running thru what ever you install it on constantly to prevent rust. Suposidly it is used on submarines. Do these things work? Wonder if they or someone still sells them?

Very interesting thought. It is the same concept that we used in protecting water towers from rusting. Its basically a cathodic protection system. I'll have to give that a shot on my Jeep. its only a 92 but its got some rust here and there I want to knock out. Thanks for the idea Bear. <IMG SRC="smilies/glasses.gif" border="0"> have a <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0"> on me

Originally posted by WranglerRunner3:
<STRONG>Very interesting thought. It is the same concept that we used in protecting water towers from rusting. Its basically a cathodic protection system. I'll have to give that a shot on my Jeep. its only a 92 but its got some rust here and there I want to knock out. Thanks for the idea Bear. <IMG SRC="smilies/glasses.gif" border="0"> have a <IMG SRC="smilies/beer.gif" border="0"> on me</STRONG>


Wait wait.... how did u protect the water towers? u mean as they were constructed or after... are u talking about Bears plating contraption or my responce of running a current thru the vehicle to prevent rusting?

I've got a 25 year old Dodge flat top knuckle in soup right now.
Looks like it will need to go over night then a rotation to face the other side to face the annode for another day.
Let's see how well it works ... I'll post pics ... <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by coachgeo3:
<STRONG>
Wait wait.... how did u protect the water towers? u mean as they were constructed or after... are u talking about Bears plating contraption or my responce of running a current thru the vehicle to prevent rusting?</STRONG>

Well cathodic protection works on a similar system. basically after the towers are built, we would install a large electrode type system in the bowl. This was run to a control unit on the leg of the tower. Once hooked up it ran a 3 volt constant through the wires and the electrodes in the tower. so i essence, it is the same as your comment of running constant current through the car. But it is also similar to Bears comment as the water acts as a conductor for the electricity. <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> Dang, i just read that through, I shoulda been a scientist <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

I wish you would have posted this info a year (or 23 years) ago. I'll use it on the next one. Thanks

Originally posted by WranglerRunner3:
<STRONG>Well cathodic protection works on a similar system. basically after the towers are built, we would install a large electrode type system in the bowl. This was run to a control unit on the leg of the tower. Once hooked up it ran a 3 volt constant through the wires and the electrodes in the tower. so i essence, it is the same as your comment of running constant current through the car. But it is also similar to Bears comment as the water acts as a conductor for the electricity. <IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> Dang, i just read that through, I shoulda been a scientist <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

OR A TEACHER?.... anyway I just searched JC Whitey web site and they dont seem to sell the electronic anti rust gizmo any more. Anyone know of such a product being sold these days?
I live in the Rust belt.. SALT used too? agggg

ok I lied, Jc Whitney does still cary the elec. rust inhibator...

JC Whitney's Rust Electro-Shield (http://www.jcwhitney.com/productnoitem.jhtml;$sessionid$RY5VSKAAAAORVWBBLJT CFFGYEFNGMIV0?CATID=4504&BQ=jcw2)

so do a few other companies. Found with Google search

Same product as JC Whitney?
Electroshield (http://www.importexporthelp.com/electroshield.htm)

Electronic Corrosion Control (http://www.crownmotors.com.sg/totalpro.htm)

tweed auto$$$ (http://www.southtweedautos.com.au/800/electrical.html)

A New zeland version (http://www.counteract.co.nz/)

cheapist (http://www.rustbustr.com/)

[ 10-14-2001: Message edited by: coachgeo3 ]

Originally posted by coachgeo3:
<STRONG>OR A TEACHER?...</STRONG>

Yeah, sorry about that, it was kinda bad. But I had the info, so.............
anyway, I gotta try it, the only problem is the rust is in the tub, It would be kinda hard to dunk that in a tank and pour some current through it. This process does take some time. I would imagine with a higher voltage, the time would be reduced. We had a test tank in the shop which we set up our system in. we used a rusty oil drum and filled it, then hooked up the system. Ran 3 volts constant through it. about three days later, you could just touch the side and the rust would fall right off, no scraping, no sanding, no nothing. <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"> Its well worth the wait. Like I said, the problem would be how to do those larger pieces. Oh that, and you guys should be warned it WILL strip paint off as well. So if your dunkin something thats painted, chances are, some of it, if not alot of it, may come off as well.

Actually the teacher thing was a complement. Anyway read another page where a guy said to hang your rusty object in a "metal" bucket and wire to the bucket instead of to the sacraficial electrode like Bear hung in his plaastic bucket... in essence your useing the bucket metal as the sacraficial electrode. Might be the ticket for big parts... use a good big metal trashcan or a 55gal drum?

[ 10-14-2001: Message edited by: coachgeo3 ]

[ 10-14-2001: Message edited by: coachgeo3 ]

I know it was a compliment coach, but to quote Steven Segal in Under Siege, " I'm just a cook, just a lowly, lowly cook." Just so happens that two summers ago I got a job with Corrpro waterworks installing Cathodic Protection Systems.
As to your question, I'm not too sure. we dealt with removing rust from the container itself. Our systems looked like this....
http://www.corrpro.com/images/prodcathod01.gif and heres a link to the info sightCorrpro (http://www.corrpro.com/prodcathod.htm)

Originally posted by WranglerRunner3:
<STRONG>I know it was a compliment coach, but to quote Steven Segal in Under Siege, " I'm just a cook, just a lowly, lowly cook." ....I got a job.... installing Cathodic Protection Systems......
</STRONG>

ok Cook... u probably figgured this out allready but if I understand things after I spent several hours reading up on the concept when I dug this post out from the back pages. rust prevention in open air... as in not emersed in water or some other potential electrolyte changes the whole story. The products I posted earlier are not actually cathodic protection because of the lack of emersion. They are close though

As to using Cathodic Protection to remove rust from something it just matters where the rust is thus you hook up ur electrodes accordingly rather the rust be the tank walls as in ur case.. or the thing you hang in the tank being the rusted object. ONe just wires opposit of the other.

hey.. can we dunk my jeep into one of those water tanks you wired up and rewire the electrodes up to it accordingly... hmmmmm add some lye to the tank like they did in the articles posted above... and.... walla...

Bear, great info. I've been using a similiar method for a while now and it works a treat....Just wish I had a bigger container....
BTW to the earler trolls <IMG SRC="smilies/flipoff.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by coachgeo3:
<STRONG>ok Cook... u probably figgured this out allready but if I understand things after I spent several hours reading up on the concept when I dug this post out from the back pages. rust prevention in open air... as in not emersed in water or some other potential electrolyte changes the whole story. The products I posted earlier are not actually cathodic protection because of the lack of emersion. They are close though

As to using Cathodic Protection to remove rust from something it just matters where the rust is thus you hook up ur electrodes accordingly rather the rust be the tank walls as in ur case.. or the thing you hang in the tank being the rusted object. ONe just wires opposit of the other.

hey.. can we dunk my jeep into one of those water tanks you wired up and rewire the electrodes up to it accordingly... hmmmmm add some lye to the tank like they did in the articles posted above... and.... walla...</STRONG>
Wow, damn bro, no need to jump me, I was just attempting to relate the theory to some of my past experience. I know it reacts differently in the air.
As to using a tank to dunk your Jeep, Unless your winch can get you up a 300 foot tall water tower and you can squeeze through a hatch thats about big enough for two small people to barely squeeze through, be my guest.
<IMG SRC="smilies/bounce.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by WranglerRunner3:
<STRONG>

Wow, damn bro, no need to jump me, I was just attempting to relate the theory to some of my past experience. I know it reacts differently in the air.
As to using a tank to dunk your Jeep, Unless your winch can get you up a 300 foot tall water tower and you can squeeze through a hatch thats about big enough for two small people to barely squeeze through, be my guest.
<IMG SRC="smilies/bounce.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

ahhhh no jump intended, but I am a gymnastics coach....I jump for a living!

Otherwise just educating cause good coaches are teachers too. I read during my readings thaat one of the arugments against electro rust prevention devices was that they cant work as good in air as they do in water. The devises I posted above suposedly overcome that. Guess it would have been easier to just say it that way..

Has any of u Rust belt people used such devises before for rust prevention?

hmm 300 fooot winch cable... and squeezing the jeep thru a port hole.. hmmm sounds like a jeepers challange hha ha...

its been fun.. time for bed...

He!! Yes!
After searching around I finally found some (Red Devel brand) Lye at a grocery store and set up my 'bath' yesterday.
This set of old '70s Dodge knuckles have to be the supreme test.
Check out the progress after 20 hours at 1 to 1.5 amps .... WOW!
And we are talking about a 1/16" to 1/8" hard crust! <IMG SRC="smilies/glasses.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/smokin.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/wink.gif" border="0">

http://www.monsterslayer.com/jeep/Pics/KnuckleInSoup.jpg

http://www.monsterslayer.com/jeep/Pics/KnuckleAlmostDone.jpg

WranglerRunner3
Your such a fucking pussy, get the fuck off the board.

Are you going to post here about your supposed saving the word trip to NY?

Fucking BS queen.

Sad thing is you belong on Sheeps unlimited.

http://www.monsterslayer.com/jeep/Pics/KnuckleAlmostDone.jpg

<IMG SRC="smilies/eek.gif" border="0"> Wow, that looks great!!!

I will now withdraw any previous mentally retarded, lame attempt at humor "spam" comments. Feel free to paste <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> stickers on my forehead now <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0">

Originally posted by 1220:
<STRONG> I will now withdraw any previous mentally retarded, lame attempt at humor "spam" comments. Feel free to paste <IMG SRC="smilies/rainbow.gif" border="0"> stickers on my forehead now <IMG SRC="smilies/biggrin.gif" border="0"></STRONG>

http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/1220rainbow.jpg
http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/1220rainbow.jpg
http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/1220rainbow.jpg
http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/1220rainbow.jpg
http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/1220rainbow.jpg

Stick em on the William dude above.. mann like where the hell his comments come from.. outerspace jack ass I guess.

Originally posted by coachgeo3:
<STRONG>Stick em on the William dude above.. mann like where the hell his comments come from.. outerspace jack ass I guess.</STRONG>nope..this is wrangledrunner3 or whatever the FAWK his name is..fawking poser!!!

http://wsphotofews.excite.com/001/bA/s9/7e/Nh98658.jpg

Originally posted by Billy Badass:
<STRONG>Originally posted by coachgeo3:
Stick em on the William dude above.. mann like where the hell his comments come from.. outerspace jack ass I guess.</STRONG>nope..this is wrangledrunner3 or whatever the FAWK his name is..fawking poser!!!

http://wsphotofews.excite.com/001/bA/s9/7e/Nh98658.jpg

<IMG SRC="smilies/laughing.gif" border="0"> Poor guy.........

Originally posted by Dan-H:
<STRONG> http://www.pirate4x4.com/ubb/uploads/1220rainbow.jpg
</STRONG>

<IMG SRC="smilies/thefinger.gif" border="0">

All done ...

http://www.monsterslayer.com/jeep/Pics/KnuckleDone.jpg
The extended arm of the finished knuckle was sticking out of the 'bath' with the (-) neg. attached.

To the disruptive twits who have been bringing their own piddling JU rivalries into this thread ... <IMG SRC="smilies/scary.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/flipoff.gif" border="0">

[ 10-16-2001: Message edited by: Jaffer ]

I just may have to try this in a slightly different way--- I have a large stainless steel tub add I suppose I could support an object inside the tub as to keep it from shorting out. Block cleaning anyone?

As for using cathodic protection (?), when I ran with the big radio boys we used a home-made one for keeping the copper coils from corroding. A simple 12v feed, a resistor, and LED were used, with alligator clips connected on opposite ends to complete the circuit.

+12v --------<LED>------}alligator clip-

grnd -----<resistor>----}alligator clip-

I suppose it could be adapted.

<IMG SRC="smilies/usa.gif" border="0">

The Q&A format of bears post led me to believe it was spam also but Jaffer proved me wrong. To make this work does the electrode need to touch the object being cleanded or does it only need to be submersed in the lye solution?

Originally posted by Go Mifune:
<STRONG>. To make this work does the electrode need to touch the object being cleanded or does it only need to be submersed in the lye solution?</STRONG>

In any stripping or plateing operation the annode and the cathode must not touch.
You rely on the 'bath' to conduct the current. That is why you need add the washing soda or lye ... these help the water conduct the current from one pole to the other.

Looks like some sheets of heavy guage steel and some welding time with a block and tackle systems for lowering and you have a large enough unit for doing entire axles.

I used to work in aluminum anodizing plant years ago and we had about 12 of these types of tanks.

oh just leave the poor stock Jeep guy alone... Feel free to flame him when he makes a stupid or useless post, his posts on this thread were actually pretty informational.


By-the-way guys... remember the part about the parts being easily susceptible to rusting... that may be a problem later on down the road... I don't know... maybe not...