Ok, so 10 day trip up into Oregon through Nevada and California. Lots seen, many cool people met, one bad thing happened.

I'm climing this relatively loose hill, nothing toooo gnarly, but steep and a few jogs in the trail. Getting toward the top, feeling pretty good about myself (after all, this IS getting video'd for a DVD release from Big Rock Video...), and about 10 feet from the summit the big ol' pig Salisbury rear end gets wedged smack square on a rock.

Wham.

Rear is locked, as is front. Both rear wheels spinning, getting no traction.

Both front wheels spinning and all of a sudden I hear a ratcheting grinding noise and I'm not going anywhere.

Hmmmm....what could it be? I didn't hear any loud noises like Billster's ring/pinion, didn't hear the dreaded CV crunch, didn't hear the axles snap. Can't figure it out, don't have time to bother with it right then because I have a 7500lb behemoth to rescue.

Fortunately I am traveling with a great bunch of guys and Bill Burke grabs the winch and gets it rigged and I tug myself off of the lil' rock. I drive the rest of the way up the hill with the front hubs engaged but the front driveline disengaged.

Get to the top of the hill and undo the hubs, completely disengaging the front axle and driveline.

All the part-time 2wd naysayers can eat my shorts because this is where it pays off.

I leave it in 2wd and drive the rest of the trail with the rear locked and get into camp not really knowing what is wrong.

Get under the truck the next morning and notice that there is play in the pinion about 1/4 inch of movement up and own in an arc. On level ground we didn't hear the ratcheting noise, but we didn't really have it under load.

My theory is that the ring gear deflected and allowed a couple of teeth to let loose.

But...the pinion being so loose is making me think maybe bearing and the pinion seperated from the ring gear under load?

I'm going to tear into it tomorrow and find out what's going on. Fortunately I have a spare 3rd member with an ARB in it I can throw in and get it running quickly.

Any guesses as to what's wrong? The winner gets...um...something. :flipoff2:

Now I'm thinking stronger front end...anyone guess where I'm heading??? :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :D

Drove it home from Portland to Vegas. No problems, no issues, nothing. Isolating the front driveline is definitely a plus. Not having to use any tools is priceless.

Glad to hear you're back, Mikie! How'd the wiring hold up? (shameless plug) :D

Wiring? OH yeah, did I forget to mention that I almost started a forest fire the first time I turned on all of my work lights??? :flipoff2:

They worked great. Thanks for the help.

I think that someone on the trip took some still piccies of me stuck on the hill. I'll try and see if I can find some.

I noticed my extreme status expired while I was away. I'm trying to get this paypal crap figured out and get my star back!!! WAaahhhhh!!!!

Originally posted by Serious One
Wiring? OH yeah, did I forget to mention that I almost started a forest fire the first time I turned on all of my work lights??? :flipoff2:

They worked great. Thanks for the help.



I was anticipating more of "a sudden ground followed by the sound of 2 Optima's exploding." :D

BTW, I finally got around to wiring my own chit...moved the fuel pump and coil out to their relays in the engine bay. Installed a pair of speakers and a pair of amps that I can plug into my portable MD player...so now I can drown out the damned brake squeal :D I'll pm you Monday...gonna hit San Diego for the weekend...but I think I need a sunroof soon :evil:

And reassure Polla that it was the IAC (stepper motor) causing the RRC to stall...if we keep our stories straight you can rebuild her confidence in your fledgling fleet of Rovers :laughing:

man, Burke is all over the place nowadays, isnt he? i just ran into him a few weeks ago here in MA.

as to what broke, i havent heard of many (any?) pinion shafts breaking on rover axles but the play you describe would make me believe something like that happened?

He was with Hren re-shooting his 'unstuck' video in MA.

I'm curious as to what's going on in there as well. I think I'm gonna go get dirty.

yeah, it was also a local club event "learn how to drive from bill burke" day. looked like everyone was having a good time, i was just passing through on the same trail with a different group of folks.

video you say? i just may have to buy that one.

anyways back to the topic- before you go tear it apart make sure you come up with a plan to remove the pinion nut. it sounds stupid and you may already know a trick that i dont, but dont be stuck where i was with a differential out of the housing and a pinion nut to remove but no way to keep the pinion itself from turning :D

hmmm, yeah thanks for mentioning that.

I have an impact wrench. Should I give it a hit with that before I pull the diff? What about after when it's out?

i would try that, but given the possible state of breakage i dont know if there would be anything inside the diff to prohibit the turning of the pinion.

once the diff is out, what i had to end up doing was clamping the pinion flange in the bench vise so it wouldnt turn and then used the impact wrench to get the nut off.

Well...it is the ring gear.

I'm too lazy and hot right now to dissasemble it for the super detailed pics, but for now I did shoot one of the ring gear in-situ (that's in place for you non-Greek speakin' peoples :flipoff2: ).

I done lost my red star, so if anyone wants to post a pic that'd be just swell.

I'm resting up for the installation of the spare.

geez, all you guys should start a club :flipoff2: im afraid to wheel a rover-axled truck now for fear of being accidentally and unwantingly initiated:D

is it a 4.10?....

the trend seems to be on 4.10 and 4.75's only...

plenty o cheap 3.54's to be had...

3:54

sigh....


so the perceived benefit of thicker teeth is... only perceived...


oh well..

guess we will all join this club at some point...


Bill.... get that forge working and make a solution that doesnt involve using a non rover axle..

Originally posted by Richard Dekkard
sigh....


so the perceived benefit of thicker teeth is... only perceived...

so the perceived extra stress from 148" of wheelbase and several thousand pounds of extra weight plus the torque and gearing of a chevy 350 with an 80:1 crawl ratio is... only perceived...

when Adam says it that way it seems a miracle I didn't break it sooner.

Remember, I also beat the crap out of it on Onion Creek in Moab. :)

I'm gonna shoot you a pic Adam.

EDIT:

For the record the vehicle has a 145 inch wheel-base
It weighed 7500 lbs.
stock rover 3.54 ring and pinion
Both rear wheels were off the ground, stuck on a rock on the Sals. diff housing
20-25 deg. uphill slope
Front axle was locked w/ARB
entire weight of truck + load of hill + load of being stuck was on the front axle
diff has Maxi-Drive inner axle shafts (24 spl.) and one-ton CV's (from 1983, who knows how many miles, or what kind of treatment they've seen. my guess is moderate mileage (axle is from an electricity board utility 127 crew-cab) and they do get moderate use off-road from what I've heard.)

ring gear carnage pic, looks good

another reason why it failed could be the fact that unless it was an off-the-shelf new ring and pinion set, this would be the second time it was set up.

RP sets only "like" to be set up once. they break into a wear pattern and stress pattern. when the carrier is changed, even with the best possible set up, these two patterns are changed (even slightly). the teeth now arent meshing how they were before, which is how they had been broken in. thus creating a weaker gearset.

Originally posted by 64rovr
another reason why it failed could be the fact that unless it was an off-the-shelf new ring and pinion set, this would be the second time it was set up.

RP sets only "like" to be set up once. they break into a wear pattern and stress pattern. when the carrier is changed, even with the best possible set up, these two patterns are changed (even slightly). the teeth now arent meshing how they were before, which is how they had been broken in. thus creating a weaker gearset.


Wrong Adam, you can set them up as many times as you want, just set them up right. The only major change in setting up gears more than once, is in the level of noise the gears produce. Strength is not affected at all if the gears are "setup properly" every time they are set. And quite gears are not alway sstrong gears. And 10thou is to much backlash for offroad use, i know alot of you run 10+thou But as for mikes break, Typical rover break. Nothin special about that. Time for some 9" gears mike!!

PS< Sorry mike jsut got your e-mail about the pic, would have posted it if I had seen it.

Originally posted by Puffdragon
...as for mikes break, Typical rover break. Nothin special about that.


Waaaahhh! Now I'm gonna cry. :crybaby:

Well I just got back form Pismo and haven't checked the shed yet, but Mike, I hope you helped yourself to one of the extras I had in there (of course leaving that brokend core)... Bummer, but 3:54's are cheap, throw another one in with a delfection pad and give it another whirl. Once you break that, I start looking at spending more $$, but until then, Id go for the cheap fix.

-Jeff

Looks familiar...

http://pics.montypics.com/lwg/2003-06-27/1056752462_Ring_and_Pinion.jpg

Larry,

Interesting that you and I are both missing 6-ish teeth (give or take half a tooth).

Billster, and others, how many teeth have you lost on your ring gear carnage?

Dunno if we can learn anything from it, just kind of a curiosity I s'pose.

Originally posted by Richard Dekkard
sigh....


so the perceived benefit of thicker teeth is... only perceived...


oh well..

guess we will all join this club at some point...


Bill.... get that forge working and make a solution that doesnt involve using a non rover axle..

Let's not forget that he has a "slightly" built 350 in that behometh.


j

"...how many teeth have you lost on your ring gear carnage?

i believe i lost 11...
T

Wow. :eek:

Footslogger indeed! :flipoff2:

Did you get the AC working???


Nice carnage :)


(non rover content)
The cruiser is functional now. Wanna go play out in the drainage basin on sunday?

Cool as a 'cuke in there now buddy!

YES I do want to go play in the drainage basin, BUT I'll be in SLC until Tuesday. Family reunion. Grumble...

Then, I'm off to Santa Fe on Wednesday thru. the 22nd. Busy week.

Then...I'm off to Montrose, Colorado to shoot a LR event there caled TReK (goofy spelling yeah, but lots of fun).

So, my July is officially booked. :(

We'll play sometime I promise (besides this gives you a chance to get out and work the bugs out of your POS). :flipoff2:

Hehe.