I was looking at the Waggy 20 I have and thought of a way to put disks on it. I could mount a front waggy 44 disk to the back of the shaft using lug bolts from the front rotor. The only thing stopping it is the backing plate, but I could pull the bearing and that off. Will this be strong enough? It would only be held on by the lug studs. I haven't seen any pictures where they stuck out that far and didn't go over the flange. I would have to put the caliper mount in closer to pumpkin. Would this hold up to abuse. It kind of scares me to have the disk hanging out that far.
:beer: cheers

What I was thinking for the same conversion on my waggie axle:

Find a weld on caliper plate (bolt on would be sooo much easier but they are hard to find)

Find caliper

Find rotor with 6x5.5 pattern, get 1/3-1/2" longer studs for the axle.

slap the rotor on the outside of the axle and put a couple lugnuts on to hold it in place temporarily. slap the caliper plate and caliper on, bleed. Have someone hold the brakes on and tack weld the plate to the housing. then welding the entire thing on. Take the lug nuts off the rotor, put tire on.

If just having the rotor held on by the lugnuts between teh wheel and hub is good enough for newer OEM 1/2 ton (and I imagine 3/4-1ton) pickups it should be plenty good for a jeep.

that is what I did on my waggy 44, same as the 20, you have to do some minor grinding on the axle flange to mate the rotor and also have to drill a 1 inch hole to line up with the existing axle hole to allow a socket to get to the backplate nuts, the axle flange will have to be re-drilled to accomodate the front studs and the front caliper plates will mount directly behind the back plate flange, I welded mine, also if you trim about a 1/4 inch off the bearing retainer you do not have to have the rotor pressed on,,,,you can minpulate it through the rotor, much better set up, and I am not sure about the sticking out question??? the rotors are in the same position as they are on the front??? never had a prob there,,,,,

I figured it wouldn't really be understood very well. What I am thinking is putting the actual disk on the back side of the flange. So it would go wheel, axle flange, disk, caliper bracket, and eventually the pumpkin. I would pull the lugnuts out of the mounfting flange and put the through the disk then pressed back in the flange. It wouldn't be mounted between the flange and the tire. The only problem I see is if all of the lug bolts break. Any more experiences? Can someone post pics of their setup?
joe

The Warn kit actually requires that you put the discs on the back of the axle shaft flange in some applications. you can buy just the brakets for about $75. I got mine from Hoaks 4WD in Pa.

Sundowner

Yes. that is what I was looking for. So Warn tells you to mount the disk to the back of the flange huh? Do you have any pics? How are they held on with the lugbolts? I can make brackets so that I am not too worried about.
joe

the disc is held on via press-fit of the lugnuts, just like the front rotors/hubs, just backwards. If you call warn, they will email you the FF kit instructions that has very detailed drawings of how it all fits together.

well, other than your probably going to have to drill a 1" or so hole through the rotor so you can bolt/unbolt the retaining plate later.

You want to get the thickness of the axle flange and rotor. find a proper thread size on a lug stuf with the knurled section of the stud being the same (or maybe a hair shorter) length as the thickness of the rotor and axle flange combined.

the axle flange is usually in the same range as the hub flange up front. So wheel studs for the front axle are a dead-on match 99% of the time. I thougt all AMC 20's didn't have the acess hole? or do you have Superior's axle shaft kit?

the shaft has a hole one either side. I usually just use a wrench on the backing plate nuts so that isn't really an issue. I may just grind away the excess material on the flange and mount them between the tire and the flange. If I do that there will be about 3/8" of material around the studs. That should be enough.
joe

What kind of calipers and rotors are you using:question: Will the Caddy calipers work on the 20 like they do for the 44 disc conversion:question: I have a DANA 44 front and AMC 20 rear that I am have FOR SALE and would like to be able to give any potential buyers this information. I already have a pair of Caddy calipers to throw in with the axles if they will work on the 20. Thanks for any info you can help with!

Tigger4X :jeep:





=O Hey Osama!! If you don't like the horns, Don't wave a BIG red cape at the bull!! :nuke: :nuke: & kisses:barf:, :usa:

So far what I am finding is yes those calipers will work. you are going to weld on a bracket anyway so it doesn't really matter what caliper you are using.
How much do you want for the calipers. do they have the parking brake on them. I am interested in them.
I personally wouldn't waste your time putting it on a CJ 20. I am doing a waggy which are stronger.

Joep, The matching axles I have are originally from an '80 Wagoneer. I am not going to put them in my Jeep, :eek:They are "FOR SALE"!! The front DANA44 is driver's drop w/ NEW Warn Premium locking hubs & new brake pads. Both installs were done about 1k miles ago. The rear AMC20 is a centered diff and has the ONE PIECE axles NOT the crappy two piecers! If I remember right the Caddy calipers I have do have the E-brake. If you have any definite info for the proper install of the disc conversion, please lemme know. It would be kewl to be able to help potential buyers widen their options with these axles.
Good Luck with your rig!!

Tigger4X :jeep:

I only want the calipers will you sell them seperately? I already have the axles plus I need pass drop.

It is looking like I am going to mount the disks on the outside of the flange between theflange and the wheel. That way it will be more protected from the rocks. I will have to grind away some material from the flange so it will fit into the disk. The disk i will use is from a front waggy 44. I have been looking at the brackets from http://www.aa-mfg.com/. The cost for those are $7 and they are for the chevy caliper. I am thinking this upgrade should only cost about $100 total. that would be so cool to switch to disk for that little.
joe

ive been looking at this for a while also Joep,

the problem is there isnt enough meat to fit the axle flange inside the rotor hat.

Ive just decided to mount it behind like everyone else, not much of a difference, just teh cost of the lug studs.

How much meat do you need around the lug studs? i figure there will be about 3/8" around the studs. As far as studs I was just going to pull them off of a front when I go to get the disk and drill out the flange to accept the fronts. Are there studs that fit into the flange and hold the disk on without modification?
joe

its been several weeks since I did the measuring and figuring , I wasnt getting anywhere close to 3/8 left around the studs.

Ill try and look later today, and see ifI can remember what I measured.

all you need is astud longer than the original rear studs to hold the rotor to the back of the flange.

My rear axle is from a 81 wagoneer, and my front axle is from a 76 wagoneer, maybe the rotors are differnet from 76-81 but I think they are all the same from eh several ive had to mess with, they are all basic GM rotors.

mine is from an 83 waggy. That maybe the case. It looks like I should be able to keep about 3/8 but maybe I'm :smokin:. I was hoping someone has done this conversion and had pics. I guess not though.

hey check your email joep,

there are some pics a guy sent me a while back he did the same thing, but behind the flange, we talked about it on here before ( I tink it was here, maybe ORCBBS) either way the consensus was that the rotors to be used outboad of the axle flange were substanially more expensive than the stock front rotors

Hey Ozark,

I am going to do the disc conversion on my '85 Waggy Model 20. I got a set of calipers from an ElDorado. I don't understand the problem with mounting the rotor between the wheel and flange. This seems like the easiest installation. What are your issues with the hat? I don't understand the problem.

Thanks,
Tom

EDIT: Are you saying that when you enlarge the rotor's center hole to fit over the axle flange you aren't left with enough material between the lug holes and the center hole? Is that the 3/8" you are referring to between the lug hole and the center hole?

basically Tom thats what im saying.

but the 3/8" isnt my number, I came up with less than that.

I cant see how to enlarge the rotor or make the axle flange smaller ( or even a combo of both) to get the rotor OVER theflange.

I wish I could remember where this last post was we talked about this.

Ill do some searching and try and come back with a link

crap I cant find it, I did send you the same email I sent joep though, its got some picks of the rotor behind the flange.

the issue is:

the OD of hte axle flange is too large to allow the rotor to mount over it.

there isnt suffecient material to remove to make them fit.

there are rotors available for other applications I thik I remember izuzu or nissan rotos maybe they were like $80 each.

wag rotors are around $30 each last I checked, and if you can grind the bearing retainer plate down enough to fit thru, then its just as simple as mounting in conventially, other than the longer stids that will be required.

if you re-drill the axle flanges they will accomadate the front waggy studs as long as the rotor is behind the axle flange just like the front, that is what I used and it works great,,,,,

hey 77 that is what I have decided to do. I will mount the rotors to the back side of the flange and use the front studs to hold them on. I will need to drill out the holes in the flange to accomodate the larger studs but that shouldn't be to hard. I am going to buy caliper brackets from AA manu for $7 each and get caddy calipers and some waggy front rotors. I should be able to do the conversion for less than $100. That is a deal. I like it.

hey ozark thanks for the pics. It was helpful.

AA manu sells bolt on caliper brackets for something like $7 each. This place is great. I found the link on the board. I will post it on Monday when I get to work. Anybody know how the bolt ons work. What keeps them from spinning.
joe

good plan Joep,

pone thing I cant figure out, ive heard some guys say they can grimd the bearing retainer so that it will fit thru the rotor, so that the rotor isnt pressed onto the shaft with the bearing.

I was looking at the parts today, and I dont really understand thi..

who said that? that it could be grounds down to fit

ahh I see now, a guy said that about a dana 44, so the amc 20 might have to thave the rotor pressed on at the same tie, not too big of a deal for a $100 rear disk setup.

On the subject of the bearing retainer, what I did on my Dana 44 disk conversion was to make a 2 piece bearing retainer out of some 1/4 inch thick stock and then cut it in half. You can then easily take the rotor on and off the axle flange by just knocking out the lug studs similar to the front axle setup, without having to press the bearing on and off.

Tom

Here is some recent information regarding this conversion. I am in the middle of doing this now. These are the parts you need if you want to use e-brake Caddy calipers ('79-85 Eldo). Use '88 Chevy K1500 regular cab rotors. These rotors are the same bolt pattern and are 7/8"thick. You mount the rotor between the flange and the wheel. The stud holes in the rotor are slightly larger than the studs. This allows you to remove the rotor for access to the bearing retainer bolts. You can leave the studs as they are since they are already long enough to accomodate the durm/rotor thickness. I am using the previously mentioned AA-MFG weld on caliper brackets.

If you don't want to use e-brake calipers then use waggy front rotors and calipers and the AA bracket. Mount the rotor behind the flange using front wheel studs. You will have to drill out the flange for the studs to fit. You will also have to drill a 1"hole in the rotor for access to the bearing retainer bolts.

My only concern with the Caddy calipers and the Chevy rotors is the slight play between the rotor and the studs. Does anyone think that having the rotor loose on the studs will be an issue? The rotor can rotate slightly probably 1/16-1/8".

Thanks,
Tom

Thanks for the information. That is great. I am going with the waggy rotors since I already have them. Do you or anyone know what I will have to drill out the holes in the flange to? I am also not worried about e-brakes so I am just going to use waggy calipers. How was the service with AA manu? I am just about ready to order.
joe

I haven't gotten my brackets from AA yet, I only ordered them on Monday night. I can measure the holes in my front hubs so you will know what size drill bit to use.

I thought of something else today. Since the K1500 rotors fit so well I am just going to redrill the bolt pattern using a smaller diameter hole to match the factory studs. That way I don't have to spend the money for new studs and the rotors won't rotate on the flange. I am going to post some pictures tonight of the rotors and calipers.

Later,
Tom

ozark, as far as grinding the bearing retainer, I do have a 44 but it is a waggy 44 so the outer ends are the same as the 20'sso it should work, mine has been on the road for a while now and like it alot, had to change M/C to make the back work right..

yes post pics. Me like pics. I started making some new bearing retainers last night. I would like to see the ground down ones though. I also noticed that the backside of the flange is too big for the hole in the rotor. Damn, a snag. I was thinking about having the holes in the rotors opened up to fit flush with the flange. Does anyone have a better idea?
joe

I will try to post some pics before I leave town this afternoon. You should really consider switching rotors. The K1500 regular cab rotors are only $25/each. These will work with 7/8" calipers(Caddy). The K1500 Extended Cab rotors(also $25) will work with 1-1/4" calipers(Waggy). You can put the rotor between the wheel and the flange and all you have to do is drill new stud holes in the rotor. You can keep the factory studs and you don't have to worry about the bearings. I think this swap will work for about $125 with new rotors and rebuilt calipers.

Later,

Where did you get the rotors from? Are they new ones or used?
joe

Here are the pictures.

http://home.off-road.com/~tom85cj7/current.htm

Joep- The rotors are new from NAPA.

I will post more pics when I get the AA-MFG brackets.

Later,

Well I placed my order at napa for the rotors. What is the part number for the thick ones. I ordered the 4885977 ones. I also ordered the caliper brackets. I just need to find some core calipers so I can get them somewhat cheap. If I can find cores I can get the calipers for $17. Disk brakes here I come.
joe

movin on up!!

Can a 6 on 5.5 be redrilled to a 5 on 4.5? I was thinking about using a similar setup (k1500 disc/eldorado caliper) on my XJ D44.

Bob

I don't see why not there is a lot of extra material on the rotors.
joe

My only concern with the Caddy calipers and the Chevy rotors is the slight play between the rotor and the studs. Does anyone think that having the rotor loose on the studs will be an issue? The rotor can rotate slightly probably 1/16-1/8".

Thanks,
Tom [/B]
http://pstr-m05.ygpweb.aol.com/data/005/2F/BD/45/BE/gK2OmLUMfgtVzc5S+lgafq5R8kcMNPmw0180.jpg
Stainless Steel Brakes, these come in there kit...

you pay $500 for little red X's? What a jip. how does that make a difference with the brakes?
joe

Originally posted by joep
you pay $500 for little red X's? What a jip. how does that make a difference with the brakes?
joe
aaarggghhh friggin web shot's. I'll email you...the picture shows spacers they use in their kit so you don't have too redrill...if you want too go that way...:rasta:

A couple of questions on the K1500 rotor:

What is the internal diameter of the hat? This should be about 6 3/4" to fit a standard axle flange.

What is the overall diameter of the disk 10, 11, or 12 inch?

I was about to use the waggy rotor on the back of the axle flange, and in fact, was gonna order some custom 8.8 axles to accomodate it, but this might work out better.

I'm also using caddy calipers form an 85 eldo, Pick and pull parts, but they look and function like new. Time will tell, but hell, they were only 30 bucks including the brackets! And, I could always use them for cores.

Andy

The rotor fits right over the flange of the shaft like it was made for it. The only problem I see it the lugs being to loose. Redrilling the lug pattern will remedy this. I am not sure what the diameter is on the outer edge but they are big. I am going to use the waggy calipers since the bracket I have and the rotor won't work with the caddy calipers. If you want to come take a look I am local to you afecko. I live right by cool. In fact I will be in Foresthill this weekend pressing bearing on the shafts. Let me know and maybe we can hook up so you can check them out.
joe

You can come press them on at my house if you want, I've got a 20 ton press. Swing by if you want, my email is afecko_99@yahoo.com.

Andy

ahh That is better. I wander if you could aquire those from the parts store. That would save me some drilling. Anyone know?
joe

I think the holes in the rotor are 9/16 or so. I was at Ace the other day, and they had a whole selection of spacers, like the kind that go into shock bushings. I figured I'd just cut a dozen little spacers from a couple of these parts. They are like 59 cents each, located in the little slide out specialty parts bins....

Never could read your e-mail to my work comp, if you want to swing by try the e-mail address in my last post....

Andy

Don't know if this will help but here ya go http://pstr-m05.ygpweb.aol.com/data/008/0C/C9/BD/07/6J3TZOU5qSvbXyRRMAmbYfN4CLacnCRi0180.jpghttp://pstr-m01.ygpweb.aol.com/data/001/31/93/22/97/AxUEl-+g70M-MEQIAL+H8rCaA-90JAVY0180.jpg out of the 2000 Warn catalog.