I heard a nasty rumor that narrow-track Wagoneers had Dana44 axles that were 58.4" WMS to WMS. Anyone back this up? If so, were they considered 3/4 ton, and had 6 lug patterns? Also, if this is the case, what did they have for rear axles? What side was the diff on?

Lookin around at my Dana44 options for my Samurai (52" WMS to WMS, and passenger diff) and this might be an option.. if I can find the right axle :D

Thanks guys..

rumors true..

They came in both center diff and drives side diff.

ok, first of all, all wagoneers are narrow track.

they are roughly 60 inches, mine is apart so I cant measure it. 76 wag,

75-79 are passenger side pumpkin, disk brake, (my 76 had flattopped knuckles)

80-91 are driver side pumpkin disk braked.
2.72,3.08,3.54 are the most common gear ratios Ive seen.

some 80 and newer had a vacum disconnect you should steer clear of.

they are considered half ton,

the rears 79 and older are dana 44s, mostly offset ( Quadratrack) but some where centered.

80-85 ( or 86) where amc20 rears, but heavy duty, way better than the CJ amc20, some or all after 85 ( or 86) where centered dana 44 rears again

all rears 1980 and later were centered.

6 lugs = half ton 8 lugs = 3/4 ton ( in this era of Jeeps)

Thanks for the info, Ozark.. but if they are all narrow track.. where did the whole 'narrow track' 'wide track' thing come from? I have a drivers side drop from a 80' wagoneer that I was going to put in my Tacoma.. and its 61" WMS to WMS (yes, close enough to your 60")..

Time to start junkyard digging I guess.. hopefully I'll find one of those flat knuckled ones you managed to snag :D

I've got a 82' narrow track dana 44 front in my YJ and its roughly 61" WMS to WMS as well. Im pretty sure there considered 1/2 ton axle but a HD version...

the wide narrow thing, come s from teh cherokees actually.

they were availble in a narrow track version and a wide track.

I had a wide track ( youve probably seen them usully cherokee Cheifs)

it was called a 2 door widetrack station wagon by the VIN breakdown, I beleive the others were referred to as 2 door narrow track utility wagons.

the J trucks are all wide, either the same as a wide cherokee, or very close

there was never a 2 door wagoneer, but there were a few 4 door cherokees, there were however NO 4 door widetracks from teh factorry.

trivial, but its easier to find what you need if you know what to eliminate first ( most of hte 2 doors and all teh J trucks)

Looks like I found the right guy.. hehe. Thanks again, Ozark.. I should take you to the damn junkyard with me :)

Originally posted by ozarkjeep
ok, first of all, all wagoneers are narrow track.



Ozark, I may be a newbie here but I have to disagree with the above portion of your statement. I have a '76 Cherokee with '80 Wagoneer factory axles under it. :eek:They are WIDE TRACK... 63" wms to wms. The front DANA44 is driver's drop and the rear AMC20 is centered diff w/3:31s or 3:54s. Maybe a dealer option:question:

Vermin, I have a buddy who has a 'Zuki that is heavily modified. He has the axles from under my Cherokee in his rig. If you are interested, email me and I'll hook you two up. The axles I have are in really good shape. The 44 has NEW Warn Premium locking hubs and new brake pads. Both items were installed about 1k miles ago. The hubs haven't been locked yet or even off-road.:emb2: The 20 has the ONE PIECE axles and not the crappy two piecers! I also have a pair of Caddy calipers I'll throw in if you think you might want to do a disc conversion sometime. The housings are in rather good condition too. Straight and true, and haven't been abused. The gears are stock and open. Email or post here if you have any interest in the axles.

Tigger4X :jeep:





=O Hey Osama, If you don't like the horns, Don't wave the BIG RED flag at the bull!! :nuke: :nuke: and kisses :barf:... :usa:

sorry Tigger,

the narrow tracks are 62-63 front
59-60 rear

wide tracks are 65 front, 63 rear.

never ever been a widetrack wagoneer from the factory.

I knew I shouldnt have asked a question that would confuse me :) Only one solution here... getting out of bed early enough Saturday to hit some junkyards with a pen/paper/tape measure :D

The front waggy axle is 60.5 wms to wms and the rear is 58.5 wms to wms.
xjs have a 60.5 wms to wms 44 for the rear if you can find them.

Did cherokees ever come with a front d44? I saw one advertised and was wondering how it would fit my YJ (I have a cherokee D44 rear on it now)

Originally posted by Victor
Did cherokees ever come with a front d44? I saw one advertised and was wondering how it would fit my YJ (I have a cherokee D44 rear on it now)

nope :smokin:

The old full size Cherokee came w/ D44 front just like the Waggy, but I guess that's not what you had in mind.

:confused: :confused: Where does this information come from:question:

I HAVE A '76 CHEROKEE 2 DOOR... It came with DANA 44s FRONT & REAR! I sold those to a buddy who put 'em under his 'Zuki when I put '80 WAGONEER WIDES on my '76. THEY ARE DANA 44 front and AMC 20 rear!!!

So, YES, Cherokees DID come with 44s...

And, I got the wms to wms wrong, Ozark is right... BUT, this Wagoneer DID have WIDES on it!!

Maybe I have been :smokin: too much of the :bounce2: :rasta: ... I dunno... BUT these are what were under each vehicle and I have both sets still available to me for comparison.

One :confused: Tigger4X :jeep:

I hope you still have the wagoneer that donated those "wide" axles, since its the only one known to exist, its got to be worth more than the normal early 80s wag.

cherokees, there are XJ cherokees ( they quit making these a couple of years ago, they were calling it classic or something)

its a unibody, midsized,SUV

and then there is a FSJ cherokee that held the name first was a fullsized beast, a wagoneer with 2 doors, these had Dana 44 fronts.

the latter models did not.

Hey Tigger got any pics of your rig?

whats the VIN#?

if it isnt a model 17 it isnt a widetrack cherokee.

Well make it easy for junkyard hunters OK?

If it has plastic fenderflares on it stock.. its a wide track.
If the fenders are molded into the sheetmetal.. its a narrow track.

Gets rid of the whole model arguement.

Originally posted by ozarkjeep
cherokees, there are XJ cherokees ( they quit making these a couple of years ago, they were calling it classic or something)

and then there is a FSJ cherokee that held the name first was a fullsized beast, a wagoneer with 2 doors, these had Dana 44 fronts
:rolleyes:Hmmm... Did ya happen to notice my sig?

And the WIDES came out of an '80... :emb: maybe an '81

VIN #... Now whose :smokin: the :laughing: :rasta: ?! 'sides, I don't own the Waggie, just the Cherokee... the Waggie donor had the Wides that are now on my Cherokee and my Cherokee is a what...? Bueller...:question: Bueller... :question: Yes, a 19...76... that's right class.... a '76. And those are under my buddies 'Zuki. You give ME the section(letter/number) to look up on my VIN and I'll give you that PIECE of it.

Tigger4X

Wagoneers, never, and I mean NEVER came from the factory Wide Track. that was strictly a FSJ Cherokee thing, and not even all of those.

If you got Wide track axles from a Wagoneer, than someone swapped them in before you got to them.

another thing to consider, the D44 on a Waggie is WIDER than the AMC20. So measure your AMC20 WMF to WMF and tell us it isn't 58-3/4-59". :smokin:

i've never heard of a widetrack waggy. it must have had axles swapped in and fenders modded (i don't think the tires would fit inside the stock fenders cuz the axle is 3" wider...).

the vac disco axles are in 83-84 waggies, so don't get those.

I gotta agree with Ozark on this one. No such thing as a waggy widetrack--at least, from the factory...

Jake

I think your a fawking dope tigger,

but, I can only hope your willingness to learn, is almost as strong as your unwilingness to accept being wrong.

your VIN

will read

J6 ( then A,F or M, depepnds on tranny) then are listening here?
the next 2 letters Ill be 15,16,17,or 18

17 is a widetrack so lets go thru that again for you Beuler.

J6A16

is what Im gessing is your first 5 VIN letters, and that denotes an automatic equipped 2 door, NARROW track cherokee.

any more questions?

oh yeah tell me the last letter ( not number, the last letter) and Ill tell you what engine it came with from teh factory.

oh yeah MIKE,

yeah thats the easiest way for me to ID widetracks also, the problem if I tell him that, and he has never seen a narrow VS a wide ( as you and I have) its hard to determine whats a fender flare and what isnt, and they are all metal, not plastic, they are bad to get rusty, plastic ones would be a godsend/

Originally posted by WillyPete
i've never heard of a widetrack waggy. it must have had axles swapped in and fenders modded (i don't think the tires would fit inside the stock fenders cuz the axle is 3" wider...).

the vac disco axles are in 83-84 waggies, so don't get those.

Watch it on those years though, there is bleed over on the factory. I bought a D44 from a 82 and got a vac disco axle, teaches me to buy and look second. :rolleyes:

That's ok, the front D44 waggie axle in at least a 85 has a 3" axle tube!

Originally posted by ozarkjeep


oh yeah MIKE,

yeah thats the easiest way for me to ID widetracks also, the problem if I tell him that, and he has never seen a narrow VS a wide ( as you and I have) its hard to determine whats a fender flare and what isnt, and they are all metal, not plastic, they are bad to get rusty, plastic ones would be a godsend/



Now that I think about it, you're right. Oh well been a logn time since I searched for 44's from anything.. ;) But you're also right about the lengths.

And the narrowtracks are ~48" from upper ball joint to upper ball joint.

:rolleyes:Okay... here we go!

First... Ozark, No doubt that you're a plethora of mostly useful knowledge, ;)
Second... Going thru the VIN :
* J6 ... I take it that it denotes CHEROKEE ??
* M ... cause its a MANUAL, not an automatic... 3rd pedal gave it away!
* 16 ... it WAS a narrow track (remember? those R under my buddies 'Zuki now)
* M ... is next, what the fawk does that denote??
* N ... 360 or 401 ??
* @@@@@@ = last of VIN

Third... The axles I have CURRENTLY came from an '80 or an '81 Wagoneer.
* It DID have flares... I woulda yanked 'em but they were RUSTY!! go figure

Fourth... After talking a bunch of crap about somebody & bashing them don't expect them to be receptive to your ideas/knowledge and say they don't wanna learn. My willingness to learn and accepting that I could be wrong should be mirrored to yours! It is entirely possibly that the Wagoneer cold have been special ordered or maybe somebody DID do a lot of work to it. I dunno and can't say for 100% certain and neither can you. So, I can accept it, can you? And if I didn't want to learn anything I sure wouldn't be on this board. I have been to several others that SUCKED and finally found Pirate. Hate me if ya want but I ain't goin' nowhere if ya do. There is always something new to learn. I might learn something from you... but ya cain't be a fawkin' jerky and ram it down my throat and expect me to swallow it! We could both be really kewl guys ... maybe we'll find out. Just don't expect anything from anybody else if Ya cain't do it yerself! ENUFF SED!!

Tigger4X :jeep:




Hey Osama! IF you don't like the horns, don't wave the BIG RED flag at the bull !! :nuke: :nuke: & kisses :barf: ... :usa:

J means Jeep
6 the year of manuafactur ( 1976)
A ( A = auto, F = 3 speed stick, M= 4 speed stick)
16 means its a narrow cherokee, 17 would be widetrack chero
15 would be a wag,`18 would be a 4 door cherokee
N ( GVW n=6200,e=4150,p=6800)
N (n=3602v,z=401)

the remainder is a sequential serial number

Id bet that the "M" after you 16 is really an "N" but I dont know for sure, there isnt an M listed as an optional GVW in my book.

WTF are you talking about., me talking crap and bashing?
Now im going to, your a fawking pansy assed whiner!

if you would read the post were I talked to MIKE, you would see that all these trucks have some sort of fender flares, only the wide tracks and J trucks have the WIDE flares.

when you finish High school, maybe youll learn how to co exist nicely wiht others.

J6 M 16 M N ***** exactly how it reads ... went back out to verify it... GVW=6025 ??

My bad for miss reading what you wrote to Mike ... I just re-read it! :emb3:

I already knew about the fender flares. That is why I was so adamant about the axles I have now coming from under an '80 Waggie with WIDES! :confused: And yes... if only AMC had been thinkin 'stead of stinkin' when they made 'em metal! Plastic flares kick a$$

As for high school ... I wux hookt on fonix an it werkt fer mee... I gradjimakated!! Howz about youse?! :laughing: :laughing:

FLAG of white ? ?

Tigger4X :jeep:

this is from a 78 factory manual, so there must have been a different option in 76

GVW

a 3750
e 4150
n 6200
9 6800
s 7600
y 8400

look on your door jamb for the GVW

have you joined the ranks of the IFSJA yet?

you should if you havent

Yup Yup! Checked the driver's side door tag for VIN info and that is where I found that the GVW=6025(3215 frt & rr) and it was a APR/76 manufacture. :rolleyes: go figure!
Who knows what all they changed like that from year to year. So many little things like metallic to semi in mid year, GVW, tranny type, etc. Especially when the factory will say something was only used up to a certain point but had leftovers of whatever and it ended up in some of the following manufacture dates that don't coincide with the manual. :D
BTW... thanks for the VIN decifer! Now I finally know for sure with no BS guesstimation that it was originally a 1976 Cherokee narrow track with 3602V and 4 spd manual.
I had no idea what the exact engine and tranny it had other than V8 manual. :beer:s to ya Ozark! cheers

Thanks again, Tigger4X :jeep:

just to let yall know, dana 44s out of a 78 cherokee "ss" model are 58.5" rear, 60.5" front. the rear is offset even though it has a centered dana 20.

Originally posted by Rockbuggy
I've got a 82' narrow track dana 44 front in my YJ and its roughly 61" WMS to WMS as well. Im pretty sure there considered 1/2 ton axle but a HD version...

Thats because you have a wide track!!

They put in narrow tracks until 1979. In 1980 the went wide track.

Originally posted by twaldher
Wagoneers, never, and I mean NEVER came from the factory Wide Track. that was strictly a FSJ Cherokee thing, and not even all of those.

If you got Wide track axles from a Wagoneer, than someone swapped them in before you got to them.

another thing to consider, the D44 on a Waggie is WIDER than the AMC20. So measure your AMC20 WMF to WMF and tell us it isn't 58-3/4-59". :smokin:

Wide Track Wagoneer axles are driverside diff. They came out in 1980. The Narrow track Wagoneer axles are passengerside diff and were put in until 1979.

Ok lets go thru this slowly, one more time for Jedjer,

NEVER a wide track wagoneer!

cherokees can be wide or narrow, and they were made that way from the mid 70s until the late 80s, before 1980 there were wide and narrow versions of the cherokee, they all had passenger sidfe diffs. 1980 and later were all drivers side diff, and narrow or widetrack

before 1979 there were ONLY narrow versions of the wagoneer, they had passenger side diffs
after 1980 there were ONLY narrow versions of the wagoneer, with drivers side diffs.

go check your sources

ledjer you quote someone who says their measurement is 61" and call that a wide track because of the year? Sorry, but that is the narrow track measurement and not all 44's from '80 and newer were wide tracks. Perhaps you haven't noticed all the posts saying that there is no such thing as a wide track Wagoneer! My God people, this isn't so hard to figure out. The narrows were around 61" in front and the wides were about 65". No wides were ever on a Wagoneer, no matter what the year.

Hey Tigger, I was wonderin why you needed such a GAWD awful amount of lift for those tires!! If you had the fenders of a widetrack, it would make considerable difference!!!!! BTW, dumped the model 20 (widetrack!!HA) for a 14 bolt! That raises a shiatload of other issues, but I won't go into that, check general 4x4 14 bolt posts for that! Any way, I would try trimmin some stock rear TJ flares for the fenders if I had a narrow track to cut out, unless its a waggy cuz' you can't really cut the back, GOOD LUCK!

Originally posted by ledjer


Wide Track Wagoneer axles are driverside diff. They came out in 1980. The Narrow track Wagoneer axles are passengerside diff and were put in until 1979.

:mad: ALRIGHTY THEN !!! I am about to take pictures of these FRIGGIN axles with the tape measure up to them !!!

My front DANA44 is approx. 65" wms to wms and has a driver's side diff. My rear AMC20 is approx. 63" wms to wms.

Here is another :question that I am sure will draw as much of a heated debate as the NARROW vs WIDE issue we have here before us today! Let the games begin !!! :laughing: :laughing:

:question:IF you are driving at the speed of light and turn on your headlights... will you see them ?!


-TIGGERZ4X-
_/_______\_
{O|||||||O}
[_]--o---[_]

tigger, did the wagoneer you got these axles off of have nice big fender flares or little ones? click on the links in my sig, if the wagoneer had fender flares like those, it has narrow track axles stock. the wide tracks may have been swapped in, but there is no such thing as a wide track wagoneer barring a very, very special order.

note: AMC has been known to do special orders for very well connected people. however, this is quite rare and a special order vehicle is not likely to end up in a junkyard.

tigger,
I'm a bit confused on what you did. You took out your stock axles which would have been dana 44s offset to the pass side front and rear (automatic means quadratrac right?) and replaced it with a driver's side front and a centered rear? What are you doing for a transfercase and why did you pick whatever you are using?

WILLYPETE, The Waggie I got my axles from had the BIG flares on it, not the standards.

GRANDPAJEEP, When I first got my Chero it had been butchered by the :barf: owner before me. He had put in an OLDS455 & TH350 and made it RWD only(and open at that). In order for him to get the clearance for the 455, he put in a 3" body lift and still only got about 1/2" above the valve covers! An SOA had been done with 4" blocks and was suffering a 1" rear sag. The engine harness had been chopped, spliced, and diced to accomodate the 455 as well. He put Bogger springs on it and slapped on some 36" swampers. For a rear bumper, there is a full Jeep width of open channel steel 10" tall and a good 3/16" up to 1/4" thick! It looks kinda kewl at first with the dark tinted windows, flat Safari Tan paint, and a few chrome accents! BUT he was a fawkin posuer BIG TIME!!
I had come across a good deal on the WIDES and my stock NARROWs were sacrificed for my buddies 'Zuki project. I had enough $ left over to buy New Warn Premium hubs, do the brakes, buy a New U-bolt kit, some metal stock, and did my own shackle reversal. Now I have +1/2" in the rear. I have been running this until I could decide what I wanted to do with it. All of my researching is finally bearing fruit and the parts-pieces-parts I need are starting to almost fall from the sky. I am selling a lot of what I got and upgrading to AMC360(dual fuel), TH400(soon to be a TH450), ORD Doubler, High Angle Drivelines w/t-case Ebrake, New Rancho(?)leaf springs, DANA60/CORP14 loq'd & lod'd on beadlocked 37or38"x12.5"x16" meats, rock sliders, and full belly pan. As soon as I can pull it off I am going to be buying or home fabbing some lighter body panels, a full cage with removable hardtop or a full canvas top, Warn winch, OnBoardAir, Dual Alts, Twin Batt. Sys, OnBoardWelder, a few token Off Road Lamps, and some other minor fun stuff. :eek:UGH... that was a mouthful!! Sorry so long and :zzz: boooor-ing!

Maybe these WIDES were a special order(since they weren't a stock thing) or the previous owner of the donor Waggie swapped 'em in along with the flares... I dunno. After all of this... who gives a :crap: anyway!:question:! :laughing: :laughing: Either way, any way, whichever way, THESE AXLES ARE " FOR SALE "!! any takers?

-TIGGERZ4X-
_/_______\_
{O||||||||O}
[_]--o----[_]

interesting... do you have the VIN off the wagoneer?? i'd like to run down the history of that vehicle and see how it got to be a WT.

Originally posted by cmegoup
ledjer you quote someone who says their measurement is 61" and call that a wide track because of the year? Sorry, but that is the narrow track measurement and not all 44's from '80 and newer were wide tracks. Perhaps you haven't noticed all the posts saying that there is no such thing as a wide track Wagoneer! My God people, this isn't so hard to figure out. The narrows were around 61" in front and the wides were about 65". No wides were ever on a Wagoneer, no matter what the year.

Then WHAT do you call the axles?

I find that the narrow, passenger side diff, axles have 48" measurement from kingpin to kingpin. The wide, driverside diff, axles have a 51" measurement from kingpin to kingpin.

Do you call them stock and wider than stock? The term narrowtrack is just to give people a clue that they are the small width axle.

thats going to be hard to explain to all those guys with teh 79 and older cherokee cheif widetracks, and all the folks with teh 1980 and newer wagoneers, and grand wagoneers.

the side of the diff has nothing to do with teh axle being wide or narrow track.

read further above in this thread for hte measuements and year modles alreadys posted several times in this thread.

It really isnt worth arguing about, and I dont want to come across as a dick, but im just trying to make it easier for people to find teh parts that they need, and rule out all the misinformation thats being spread by folks who claim to know, but dont actually.

Interesting vehicle tigger. I have no idea what shape that Olds 455 is or how hacked the install is, but if it were me I'd be tempted to keep it. Get yourself a BOP pattern TH400 and use whatever transfercase combo you were planning on and go with it.

ozarkjeep,
Just to clear up some other questions. Are the '80 and up narrow track axles the same width as the pre '80? Are the wide track axles the same width as well for pre '80 and '80 and later? I know the front diff changed sides, but what about the width?

grandpawjeep,

the wiodths didnt change much or at all during those years, the entire line of FSJs did get wider in the early 70s, but I thnk it was about the same time they switched from dana 27/30 fronts to Dana 44 fronts, so it doesnt really matter to most concerned.

widetracks before and after 1980 roughly 65 front 62 rear

narrowtracks before and after 1980 roughly 62 front 59 rear

the diff changing sides has nothing to do with the width, simply a change in drivetrain packages that happened in 1980

Originally posted by ozarkjeep
grandpawjeep,

the wiodths didnt change much or at all during those years, the entire line of FSJs did get wider in the early 70s, but I thnk it was about the same time they switched from dana 27/30 fronts to Dana 44 fronts, so it doesnt really matter to most concerned.

widetracks before and after 1980 roughly 65 front 62 rear

narrowtracks before and after 1980 roughly 62 front 59 rear

the diff changing sides has nothing to do with the width, simply a change in drivetrain packages that happened in 1980

Thanks Ozark, for the information. I don't consider you being a dick. I guess I have been someone lucky or unlucky as you might see it to only find the 1980 and after axles in my junkyard with a driverside diff and 65" wide and similarly the 1980 and before in a passengerside diff @ 62".

I personally have a 1977 Wagoneer that is 62 WMS and driverside diff going into my scrambler. I'm looking forward to my Scout 44 going bye bye.

yeah ive got a 76 wag front going into my Cj5, luck me flat tops and all!

what dont you like about the scout axle?

how did your spring outboard go?

Originally posted by ledjer


Then WHAT do you call the axles?

I find that the narrow, passenger side diff, axles have 48" measurement from kingpin to kingpin. The wide, driverside diff, axles have a 51" measurement from kingpin to kingpin.

Do you call them stock and wider than stock? The term narrowtrack is just to give people a clue that they are the small width axle.

I call fronts with around 61" narrow track, no matter what the year. I call fronts with around 65" wide track, no matter what the year. Both varieties can be found in '79 and older as well as '80 and newer. They didn't change the width just because they went from passenger drop to driver drop. The point was that wides weren't found on Wagoneers (unless very special order) no matter what the year.

Originally posted by ozarkjeep
yeah ive got a 76 wag front going into my Cj5, luck me flat tops and all!

what dont you like about the scout axle?

how did your spring outboard go?

Mine has the flat tops as well. Just sent them off to Avalanche Engr. to drill tap and get arms.

I don't like the Scouts because they don't have any caster. Don't like wandering all over the road and had the fact that I can't flat tow. It seems to have a mind of its own. When I want to go left, it wants to go right.

Plus the pinion is flat and hits rocks quite often. The Waggy at least has the pinion aimed upward.


Here is my outboard pics. It went very well.
http://www.geocities.com/jyd4wdc/ledjer/images/hanger1s.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/jyd4wdc/ledjer/images/hanger2s.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/jyd4wdc/ledjer/images/hanger3s.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/jyd4wdc/ledjer/images/hanger4s.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/jyd4wdc/ledjer/images/hanger5s.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/jyd4wdc/ledjer/images/hanger6s.jpg

Unfortunately, you have to remove the http:// at the begining and the links work. Geocities and Pirates seem to have issues.

Originally posted by cmegoup


I call fronts with around 61" narrow track, no matter what the year. I call fronts with around 65" wide track, no matter what the year. Both varieties can be found in '79 and older as well as '80 and newer. They didn't change the width just because they went from passenger drop to driver drop. The point was that wides weren't found on Wagoneers (unless very special order) no matter what the year.

Well if you want those very special order wide wagoneer axles, come down to Hayward Pull-a-Part, because they have about 4 of them.

Originally posted by ledjer


Well if you want those very special order wide wagoneer axles, come down to Hayward Pull-a-Part, because they have about 4 of them.

Some men... you just can't... reach...

;) :D :flipoff2: :D ;)

Originally posted by Jakesteramalamajama


Some men... you just can't... reach...

;) :D :flipoff2: :D ;)

:laughing:

Some people seem to have trouble distinguishing between those older Cherokees and Wagoneers :flipoff2: :D

Originally posted by Eric Ruhl


:laughing:

Some people seem to have trouble distinguishing between those older Cherokees and Wagoneers :flipoff2: :D

Cherokees have 2 doors and Wagoneers have 4? Or is the big F'ing vinyl sticker on the bottom of the door that Say "Cherokee Cheif!" or the vinyl wood paneling on the Wagoneer?

jeeze, how do you end something like this?

its obvious to those of us who know the history, and VIN breakdpown, and a zillion other FSJ owners , we arent wrong about this.

how about someone shows us a picture of a widetrack wagoneer, go ahead, since there are so many out there, it shouldnt be too hard to get a tinsy bitty snapshot of one to save face right?

IM waiting.

I measured a couple of driver side Waggy's this summer for a possible SAS in my S10. My tape said ~60.5". That was @ Hayward Pick-Yer-Part. Never saw any wider.

Originally posted by ozarkjeep
jeeze, how do you end something like this?

its obvious to those of us who know the history, and VIN breakdpown, and a zillion other FSJ owners , we arent wrong about this.

how about someone shows us a picture of a widetrack wagoneer, go ahead, since there are so many out there, it shouldnt be too hard to get a tinsy bitty snapshot of one to save face right?

IM waiting.

I have said it before... I believe that Waggies didn't come stock with the WIDE axle... BUT it is a POSSIBILITY that someone could have ordered it as a DEALER OPTION!!! VIN#s should have been the BIBLE on this, but is it also possible that the "dealer option" was done after it was delivered from the factory?? I dunno... NOTE: I did NOT say that it meant ALL of them were WIDES... but you can't say it does NOT mean that it couldn't be a possibility either!! Also, the factory sometimes did what they want. If I knew this was a RARE item I would have documented it! AND if I could go back in time and take a picture I would. Again I will reiterate that it is also a possibility that the previous Waggie owner, that I got my axles from, may have swapped them in AND flared the fenders. NO ONE ELSE CAN SAY FOR CERTAIN, WITHOUT A TOTAL SHADOW OF A DOUBT, LIKE GOD HIMSELF SPOKE IT!! ***And watch the blasphemy... HE still works in mysterious ways!*** Lightning ain't the only method! ;)

still waiting.....

I am part of the FSJ board and was looking for info when I came across this post.
This is a little late I know, but I have seen a picture someplace of a Wag that was converted to a widetrack by a dealer somplace that I do not recall. The wag I believe had the widetrack axles, but had the fender flares for sure. The picture was showing how they did the fender flares into the rear door.

:confused: how hard would it be to put a set of Grand Wagon 44s in my TJ? Sure would be my 30 and 35.
phil:roxy:

It all depends on what you wanna achieve with your rig. How wide can you go and be happy? Are you ready to do any other mods to make 'em fit if need be? I have a DANA44 front and the FSJ AMC20 rear(for sale:) ). No, NOT the crappy CJ version of the 20 either!! It all boils down to what you REALLY want and what you wanna do to GET IT!

Originally posted by 99ChiliPeprTJ
:confused: how hard would it be to put a set of Grand Wagon 44s in my TJ? Sure would be my 30 and 35.
phil:roxy:

Using a set of 80s Grand waggy axles.
Pros:
The width is very close to stock,(the waggys are about an inch wider).
The front has a driver side drop.
The front has enough camber/castor built into it, that you should not need to rotate the knuckles.
Axles strength, and other features(like manual locking hubs) are much better than your stock axles, both front and rear.
You will upgrade to a stronger bolt pattern.
Stronger steering options

Cons:
You will need to change to a different bolt pattern.

You will need to grind away the existing leaf spring bracketry, and fab up new perches, mounts and link connections.
Im not sure how much engineering will need to go into the steering linkage, but I am sure that with a little enginuity, and fabricating you could improve upon that inverted Y set up(MORE is testing some new TJ linkage, and have some spy pics of it on their website.

H8monday is right. You have 5 lug now and the Waggies have 6 lug. (I also have rims w/BFG A/Ts on 'em F/S :) )

You have A LOT to gain from this upgrade. Good Luck!

the reason I'm asking is because i want something stronger than my dana 30 and 35. I know the waggy 44s are within inches of my stock width. I have factory wheels so upgrading to a 6bolt would not be a problem but I dont know much about custom fabrication work. I just didnt want to spend thousands of $ for a set of stronger axles.
phil

i'm still waiting to see this wide track wagoneer.:D

yeah Me too, Brian!

I figured one of htese maybe got one for xmas.

I spent several years on the ifsja mailing list, and I never heard of a factory built WT wag, although if one exists ( its possible) the VIN would reflect that its a WIDE TRACK WAG

NOT A NARROW TRACK wag like the VIN number posted to this thread.

some poeple just have a hard time admitting they MIGHT not be 100% correct

BTT:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :trooper: :vader: :vader2: :vader: :trooper:

Originally posted by ozarkjeep
I spent several years on the ifsja mailing list, and I never heard of a factory built WT wag, although if one exists ( its possible) the VIN would reflect that its a WIDE TRACK WAG
NOT A NARROW TRACK wag like the VIN number posted to this thread.
If it came from the FACTORY as a WT then yes the VIN would show it, :rolleyes:BUT if the DEALER did it then the VIN would NOT!!


some poeple just have a hard time admitting they MIGHT not be 100% correct
:rolleyes:Maybe you should get some Windex on that mirror of yours... :laughing: :laughing: :laughing:


-TIGGERZ4X-
_/_______\_
{O|||||||O}
[_]--O---[_]




HEY OSAMA! If you don't like the horns, DON'T wave the BIG RED flag at the BULL !! :nuke: :nuke: & :barf: kisses ... :usa: Land of the FREE and Home of the BRAVE !!

its amazing Tigger

youve been here for about 1/40 the duration that I have, yet you have alot more postings, I wonder what the content of the majority of them is?

this thread became a joke a long time ago

produce a picture of a factory wide tracked wagoneer, ( hopefully you can give a VIN also, to prove the factoryness)

or shut the fawk up.

Ozark... I seem to recall that I have stated several times before that I AGREE 99.9% that the Waggies did NOT come from the FACTORY in WT!!!! :p

HOWEVER, the point that I have reiterated several times, if not more, is that it IS POSSIBLE that the Waggie I got my axles from had been a D E A L E R upgrade OR had been heavily modified by the (previous) owner. I also refer you to the posting by "mikef". Just to be absolutely CLEAR he stated that he has seen somewhere a pic of a Waggie that had a DEALER upgrade to WT fender flares and it showed how they blended them into the rear doors. Before you even say it, I wish he could find it!! I wish I had actually known what kinda :cow:shiat this would have stopped so long ago IF I would have taken a photo of the Waggie I got my axles from. Hind sight is a genuine biotch! ... for now.


youve been here 1/40 the duration that I have, yet you have a lot more postings, I wonder what the content of the majority of them is?
Now I don't give a rats ARSE how long you have been on this BBS or any other for that matter. AND it doesn't matter that I have more postings than you. Maybe you are just a :rolleyes:"Jeep God" or a sandbagger. But I have a very active interest in my project and have been hunting down A LOT of info and have been making connections with others here in order to learn more and maybe make some friends.


produce a picture of a factory wide tracked wagoneer, hopefully you can give a VIN also, to prove the factoryness
As far as producing a pic of a FACTORY Waggie... get a fawking grip!! I direct you :rolleyes:AGAIN to what I restated above for your "deaf ears" that I AGREE 99.9% that the Waggies did NOT come FACTORY in a WT!!! Did you happen to GET IT that time:question:


this thread became a joke a long time ago
If so then why are you wasting your precious time with such an issue? IS this why you have so few postings? IS it that you only come out to debate issues and then when you MIGHT not be 110% right you have to :cow: out?!? Quite frahnkly muh deer I dunt geev eh damm!!


or shut the fawk up
or what?!? you gonna post me to :skull:? :rasta: ooooooo :laughing: Yer not my momma, yer not the WT Waggie police, and I don't see a moderators hat on yer head. The only reason I have come back to this thread is the fact that you whine that you have to be right, and at the same time keep going back to already agreed upon ground and reopen it as if it was still a part of the issue. FOR THE RECORD... We all "hear" you that the Waggies did NOT come from the FACTORY in a WT!!!! That HAS BEEN established loooooong ago. Can we move past that stupid point?!? Actually, can you? BUT will it ever be possible that you even concede 1% that a DEALER could have made the change? If not, then IMHO you have issues. To what extent, or even if you truly have them, I dunno.
So in response to your threat/demand ..... :p pppbbbbblllltttttttt !!!

Have a :) day! And to quote DSI, take two :flipoff2: :flipoff2:, they're small! :laughing:

yo mamma



still waiting

Originally posted by ozarkjeep
yo mamma
still waiting


ta-hul ta-hul that was a witty one. :rolleyes:

:eek: N O T ! ! :eek:

Ozark, you are like a one way train low on coal. :) :flipoff2: :P

when frying a turkey, do you guys usually turn off the burner before dumping hte bird in?

or if teh oil level is low enough will that minimize the splatter enough?

trying to feed us a fried bird tonight, and decided to use the beer, new turkey fryer, beer.

Did you get that pic yet:flipoff2:

FSJ 44 fronts came in 3 different lengths

Jesus, this thread is fawkin TWO YEARS OLD!!!

:flipoff2:

Originally posted by MC
FSJ 44 fronts came in 3 different lengths

Well, two different lengths between ball-joints, with two different WMS distances on the wide-track axles due to the different hubs on the WT Cherokee/J-10's vs. the J-20's 8-lug hubs.

FWIW, seems that two years ago people were confusing the NT/WT distinction on the CJ axles with the NT/WT distinction on the FSJ axles. A NT FSJ axle is close to the width of a WT CJ axle.

And I too would like to see a pic of the flares on the back-door of a converted WT Wagoneer. There was a dealer who produced the "Super Chief", a wide-tracked Wagoneer, but it would be a shame if one of those was scrapped, as there were only a handful built.

But maybe they DID all end up in a single CA junkyard... ;)

Holy old thread batman!

But hey, here's a pic of a Sami with the narrow track D44's from my old '79 Parts Wagoneer (which never could have come with widetrack axles as the wheel well openings never would have cleared the tires :flipoff2: ):

http://www.dfw-tx4wd.org/Photos/2003%20ARchives/MR2003/Burdios/jnc.jpg

The passenger drop of the front and rear axle were a perfect match for the Zook t-case. The spring perches on the front axle had to be shifted to the passenger side about 1/2" to clear the front diff.

cool little sammi!

Originally posted by BobBarry

And I too would like to see a pic of the flares on the back-door of a converted WT Wagoneer. There was a dealer who produced the "Super Chief", a wide-tracked Wagoneer, but it would be a shame if one of those was scrapped, as there were only a handful built.

But maybe they DID all end up in a single CA junkyard... ;)

There were some pics of it in the "Jeep Wagoneer Performance Portfolio, 1963-91" published by Brooklands Books in the UK. It is a collection of 37 articles about the Wagoneer and Cherokee.

Here some scans from the mag:

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jjacobs149917/wt_wag1.jpg

http://mywebpages.comcast.net/jjacobs149917/wt_wag2.jpg

Yeah Ozarkjeep, it took a few years, but :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

oh yeah, I should mention that these are pics of the dealer converted WT Wag. I actually contacted the dealer and asked some questions about it, I either posted the results on the IFJSA mailing list or the IFSJA message forum.

This would have been a couple of years ago when I actively followed both of them.

If I remember correctly he used J-10 axles and J-10 fender flares to do the conversion.

Now can this thread die?

ahhh, but see

the photos above of the dealer installed flares are on an older wagoneer , the taillights changed in 80 to the cherokee style lights.

and mr tigger said he had a centered rear AMC20HD widetrack , those axles didnt make it into FSJs until 1980.

it is funny to see such an old post again, I hope there was no hard feelings, I hated in went so south... haha

btw those added flares look like ASS, no wonder the dealer didnt sell many.

oh joy! I get to add to this:) It is a 68 but hey, it has been converted to WT. Not a factory option though.

http://www.fullsizejeeps.com/jeeps/files/1963-1983-Wagoneers/68wagoneer.jpg


More can be found here
http://www.fsjworld.com/mygallery.ten?id=3316

Originally posted by ozarkjeep
ahhh, but see

the photos above of the dealer installed flares are on an older wagoneer , the taillights changed in 80 to the cherokee style lights.

The taillight change coincided with the switch to the Grand Wagoneer name, and the dropping of the FSJ Cherokee, in '84, not in '80, so there would be Wags with wrap-around taillights and a rear AMC20.

But still, not a WT AMC20 axle.

OK, I'm shutting the lights off now, guys; come back in another two years and see if he's posted pics from the junkyard by then! :D

Just a side note...XJ's did come from the factory with D44 rear axles in some cases 60"wide, Ozark mentioned they never did, just my 02 cents:D

Just let it die:rolleyes:

WAIT, I think I had a stock 82 cj7 with square headlights, yah and then I put them in my yj.:rolleyes:

nice looking FSJ!






(lol :flipoff2: )

Bobbarry,

you got me, I guessed on the date of the taillight change!


Northern dude,
when did I ever say an XJ didnt have a certain axle?

Originally posted by NothernAZxj
Just a side note...XJ's did come from the factory with D44 rear axles in some cases 60"wide, Ozark mentioned they never did, just my 02 cents:D

Your $0.02 isn't worth even close to that. XJ 44's were never mentioned in this thread until you brought it up, especially by Ozark.

I have a 75 J-10 that I purchsed for a front axle swap into a 90 4-runner. It is apparently a WT and it has the factory from brakes that I am going to swap over to Chevy disc. What axles and widths do I need to run and what would they come from to end up with an approx. 60-61" wms? This J-10 also came with a D60 rear axle. How can I get info from the axle? It appears to be center diff. Is it worth any money? The J-10 cam with 258 and 3 speed into Dana 20 transfer case. Narrowing the front axle housing is no problem but I would really like to find inner axles that could give me the right width without re-inventing them. Thanks for any help and everyone have a great New Years!!

Sheesh :rolleyes:


So someone puts J10 axles on a waggy. Ozarks right there were never any FACTORY wide track Waggys. There may have been dealer installs, but who cares?

Originally posted by JS-Economos
Jesus, this thread is fawkin TWO YEARS OLD!!!

:flipoff2:

Yah! I'ts 2004 -- now it's three years old:flipoff2:

Originally posted by ozarkjeep
ok, first of all, all wagoneers are narrow track.

they are roughly 60 inches, mine is apart so I cant measure it. 76 wag,

75-79 are passenger side pumpkin, disk brake, (my 76 had flattopped knuckles)

80-91 are driver side pumpkin disk braked.
2.72,3.08,3.54 are the most common gear ratios Ive seen.

some 80 and newer had a vacum disconnect you should steer clear of.

they are considered half ton,

the rears 79 and older are dana 44s, mostly offset ( Quadratrack) but some where centered.

80-85 ( or 86) where amc20 rears, but heavy duty, way better than the CJ amc20, some or all after 85 ( or 86) where centered dana 44 rears again

all rears 1980 and later were centered.

6 lugs = half ton 8 lugs = 3/4 ton ( in this era of Jeeps)



You say that 75-79 are passagewr side pumpkin. Is this for waggies only? or is this for cher's as well?

I just pulled some 44's from a 79" 2-door (cher) and it was up knuckle drivers drop and had manual locking hubs. Can't messure the WMS cuz it's at the shop but does this jive with what you know? Just trying to make sure I know what I got. Doing a SOA and SRS on a YJ. Oh, and know I don't understand because I only own Toyota's :flipoff2: :D

Originally posted by shaka 55


You say that 75-79 are passagewr side pumpkin. Is this for waggies only? or is this for cher's as well?

I just pulled some 44's from a 79" 2-door (cher) and it was up knuckle drivers drop and had manual locking hubs. Can't messure the WMS cuz it's at the shop but does this jive with what you know? Just trying to make sure I know what I got. Doing a SOA and SRS on a YJ. Oh, and know I don't understand because I only own Toyota's :flipoff2: :D

From the factory:

All Wagoneers/Gladiator Pickups/J-Trucks/Cherokees from 1963 through 1979 are passenger side drop.

All Wagoneers/J-Trucks/Cherokees from 1980 through 1991 are driver side drop.

If you got a driver drop axle out of a 79 Cherokee, it wasn't stock. Swapping the drivetrain from an 80s wag/chero into a 70's wag/chero isn't too hard to do so it's not unheard of to see the swap.

Not unheard of but probably unlikely.. you would need another t/c along with redoing the exhaust system. The rear axle would also have to be replaced since the 79's had quadratrac's with a slight offset rear axle. There were no Drivers Drop T/C's that had offset rear outputs.. I am speaking specifically in factory terms.. i guess with adapters and such anything is possible but why would anyone go through that much work..

damnit man... haha

IM glad you guys are giving out the good info, IM tired of this post!

I have a widetrack beer....

My D44's came from a 1983 wagoneer. The front axles came with disc brakes and the rear with drum brakes. The swap is easy and it works great for TJ, YJ, etc...

Nice TJ Carlos ! (how wide are those axles again?) :D

The old full size Cherokee came w/ D44 front just like the Waggy, but I guess that's not what you had in mind.


Got bored reading so this might have already been answered....Some Cherokee Chief's had a 44 front ;) But no XJ Cherokee with the 5x4.5 bolt pattern ever had a 44 front.

Got bored reading so this might have already been answered....Some Cherokee Chief's had a 44 front ;) But no XJ Cherokee with the 5x4.5 bolt pattern ever had a 44 front.

All the chief's have 65" wide 6 lug dana 44's upfront i believe... In anycase i have that said front 44 from a 78 cherokee chief. Also have the equally wide passenger offset rear 44 from same chief. All this wide track narrow track bs-ing... figured i better add soemthin?

This thread was at the top when I replied.....why is it the last post was from January now? Who posted and deleted? :flipoff2:

This thread was at the top when I replied.....why is it the last post was from January now? Who posted and deleted? :flipoff2:
people asking stupid questions, then deleting them, causing the answers to stupid questions to get deleted. (IE the flat top knuckle question).

WOW! Very interesting thread after a couple of years. :flipoff2:

Wow nice Jeep axle tech by Ozark! I know I heard that "wide track" old full size jeeps has fender flares, if that helps.
Troy

Still no pics of the factory wide-track Waggies, I see... :D

Still no pics of the factory wide-track Waggies, I see... :D
need pics of a 64" wide waggy front 44? i have one in my backyard....

Well - it is an ancient thread, but it still holds some myths to be busted.

Well make it easy for junkyard hunters OK?

If it has plastic fenderflares on it stock.. its a wide track.
If the fenders are molded into the sheetmetal.. its a narrow track.

Gets rid of the whole model arguement.

Just in case you are still wandering the junkyard looking for that elusive factory WT Wagoneer or FSJ with plastic fender flares:
When speaking of a full size jeep, there was NEVER one built by jeep with plastic fender flares. ALL FSJs (Wagoneer, Cherokee, Truck, M715, Grand Wagoneer) had metal fender flares. The WT versions had flares that look like they were welded on afterwards, and the NT versions look like they were "molded into the sheetmetal."

Well - it is an ancient thread, but it still holds some myths to be busted.



Just in case you are still wandering the junkyard looking for that elusive factory WT Wagoneer or FSJ with plastic fender flares:
When speaking of a full size jeep, there was NEVER one built by jeep with plastic fender flares. ALL FSJs (Wagoneer, Cherokee, Truck, M715, Grand Wagoneer) had metal fender flares. The WT versions had flares that look like they were welded on afterwards, and the NT versions look like they were "molded into the sheetmetal."
You ummm... didn't read 4 posts later. Mythbuster you aint :laughing:

I know this is a really old ass thread, with what appears to be some misinformation.. so can anyone clarify... what widths correspond with what years? I found an 81 Wagoneer in the junkyard near me with Warn lockout hubs, drivers drop, 6 lug, AMC 20 rear. I didn't have a tape measure with me, so I figured I could search on here and figure it out but to no avail. It *appears* that the 81 Waggy front 44 will be perfect to swap into my ZJ in terms of width. I can't find a list of the various widths in the Waggy's anywhere. TIA!

I know this is a really old ass thread, with what appears to be some misinformation.. so can anyone clarify... what widths correspond with what years? I found an 81 Wagoneer in the junkyard near me with Warn lockout hubs, drivers drop, 6 lug, AMC 20 rear. I didn't have a tape measure with me, so I figured I could search on here and figure it out but to no avail. It *appears* that the 81 Waggy front 44 will be perfect to swap into my ZJ in terms of width. I can't find a list of the various widths in the Waggy's anywhere. TIA!

1981 will be 61.5"

http://www.ifsja.org/readers/wagoneers/pictures/mvc-005f.jpg

Because there were 2 door wagoneers and someone stated there weren't which bothered me when I origionally read this thread years ago....:flipoff2:

Jesus this thread is fawkin Five Years Old!

Also the XJ's not having a 44 front is untrue. Currie has a whole bunch stockpiled that came from South American XJ's, but were never an option here, wich would've been cool.

okay what is the od of my 89 front waggy axle tubes?
3.00 or 2.95?

i read somewere, but can't find it now,that if you ad the 3/4 knuckles and out off of a 3/4 ton dana 44 that it widens the width. this doesn't make sense to me, if that was the case then wouldn't the front 1/2 ton chevys be narrower then the 3/4 ton 44's. or are the balljoints closer together. i know this is off subject tried serching just thought i would check and see if any one in here could help

Even though I think everyone wants this thread to die.........making a Waggy 44 8 lug widens it by about 1.5"s because the stud flange is mounted farther outward on the 8 lug Chevy hub.

another ? can you use the same outer shaft thats in the waggy axle or do you need the outer shaft from the donor (10 bolt or 44 they will both work right?) do you need the knuckles or just everything else? thanks for any help

Use the waggy shafts...you just need the 8-lug hubs, rotors and caliper brackets

thanks

Wide Track Waggy picture


http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=67232