if i install 1 or 2 springs on the front and keep my coil overs on maybe install a anti wrap bar ,will the front axle still stay in its place?with long springs will it still restrict my travel?are the springs strong enougth to hard the axle correctly?

Interesting idea but unfortunately not a very good one. By keeping a leaf spring to locate the axle, you totally negate any benefits of having coil overs. The reason people run coil overs in rock crawling is so that they can run a 3 or 4 link suspension. Better approach, better departure angle. Better suspension control (in a sense, that's a very broad statement I know).

So if you're gonna go coil over, do it all the way and don't screw with leafs. Or just stick with a nice supple leaf spring setup and go SOA.

thanks for your help ,ihave a trianglated lower link and track bars on the top, but o get axle side to side travel,i tried a panhard bar but got too much binding even on one side it wouldnt even raise without the whole lot lifting with it,you think my trianglated lower is too long ,its connected with jonny joints at the frame and a1.25 hiem at the axle ,ive spent alot of money and i still cant get it rigth,?

??? I have no idea. Total dweeb when it comes to 3-4 link suspension design. Do a search here, there is LOTS of good info. Lots of BS info too so careful what you believe. I DO know that mixing suspension types is a bad idea. Post some pix of your suspension on another thread and delete this one. Get some of the guys here to give you a bad time about what you did wrong on it, go rebuild it until you get it right.

Take it easy dude :cool:

Post up some pix!

Sounds like you have a 3 link (not sure from your description) The guys on here can help you out for sure.

Show us some pics and we can help. If you don't have the pan hard rod set up correctly, it can cause binding like you are describing. Please describe your lower triangulated link and upper track bars. Where are they mounted, how are they mounted, etc.

i will get some piks to show you saturday,my trianglated link has jonny joints at the frame 1.25 hiem at the axle ,track arms are jonny joints both ends and mounted to the axle about 5" above the axle, the triangle link is about4" shorter than my track arms,i have a panhard bracket that is mounted about 4"down from the frame and about 6" in from the end of the axle with a bend in it to clear the pumkin,i only get axle movement when the panhard bar is disconnected and when it is connected i get steering bind and axle bind,yes i,d better get pixs so you can see ,thanks for your help guys

You should'nt really need a track/panhard bar with a triangulated 3-link, should you???

thats what i thougth but i get axle movement even tho my trilink is pritty stout ,i wish i didnt have to run one but when i get the pixs on the tread hopefully someone can help me out,thanks for your reply

i have just filled out the form for a red star,so pictures comeing soon

Originally posted by neil henderson
i have just filled out the form for a red star,so pictures comeing soon

Waiting...........

Originally posted by PIG


Waiting...........

me too, my brain hurts trying to understand the setup he is discribing.

i dont want your brain to hurt so if you would like to see the pictures i can email them to you as i dont know how long it will take to get my red star

OK so the pictures I got were a true wishbone 3 link setup, it was a little different from most as the wishbone acted as the lower links. Both upper links run parralel to the frame, and the heim on the axle end of the A arm runs in the correct horizontal orientation......

I don't know what else to say, I don't see any way physicly possible how this could not positivly locate the axle side-to-side.

i am not sure if you have to put tension on the links ? or my A arm is too long i do know mow that my steering is giveing me a binding problem,i think i have to go with a high steer set up to raise the pitman arm angle?anyway thanks for takeing a look

Send me the pics ( B18c5racer@comcast.net ) and I will put them up, I really think we can all help you figure this out if we see it for ourselves.:)

Dan

thanks for looking at the pics dan,as you can see the a frame trianglated section is mounted in the lower middle and is pritty sturdy but i plan on makeing it even stronger, when i turn the wheels my frame moves side to side and mr steering is a full lock when the wheels arent even all th way cranked , i am woundering if i need high steer arm the one like marlin crawler makes?money is getting an issue but do you think i need steering assist? or should i change the position of my steering arm and pitman arm ? thanks again for your help, neil

I am most definately not the most qualified to answer your question, but I will attempt to post the picks and help the best I can.

Is this photo taken with the weight on the front end? If so, you need high steer and you need a new draglink for sure, that is bent.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/27140/E.jpg



I am not sure on how the rules work with vertical seperation in relation to side to side movement but I was under the impression that the links should be seperate on the vertical level by some amount like this _--_ not like this ----, I am sur eI am wrong though.
http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/27140/10.jpg

This may be another problem, I was told by a long ime chassis builder that the axle mounted rod end should be mounted vertical like this | not like this --- to control side to side movement better, Once again, I could be wrong, probably am but that is what I have heard.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/27140/F.jpg

FYI, I linked this to the General 4x4 section, maybe some of the experts will pop in with there suggestions.

every thing looks good but its kinda hard to say whats wrong with out being right there. Get one of your buddys to sit in the truck and have him turn the wheel left and right then while he is doing that look under the truck and see what is letting the truck move side to side. btw the mount for your rear links does not look to strong

Originally posted by TR
every thing looks good.To be perfectly honest, I want to know where you're looking. Nothing looks good. No offense to the starter of the thread, but it is quite clear that you're in over your head on this project. :(

Originally posted by Slowerthanu
This may be another problem, I was told by a long ime chassis builder that the axle mounted rod end should be mounted vertical like this | not like this --- to control side to side movement better, Once again, I could be wrong, probably am but that is what I have heard.

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/27140/F.jpg

OK to start off with here. You SHOULD NOT run a triangulated front while still using the drag link style set up. You WILL have bump steer up the ass.

For the front my recomendation is this: Use a 3 link (non triangulated set up) with a panhad bar. Example, 2 lowers & 1 upper.

If you want to keep the same style set up you have here Neil ditch the drag link style steering and go full hydro. Also, put the lower a arm link on top of the axle.

Slower thanu- as far as the correct way to mount the rod end that will be controlling the side to side movement. The way neil has mounted it is correct. If you mount it the other way it will want to push the bearing out of the housing.

Neil if you want to minimize the amount of work you have to do the just make the lower link just 1 link not an a arm, mount a track bar and get some high steer.

Originally posted by TNToy
To be perfectly honest, I want to know where you're looking. Nothing looks good. No offense to the starter of the thread, but it is quite clear that you're in over your head on this project. :(

I think the project is still salvagable.

slowerthanthou thanks for posting my pics and your advise,pig i know you know what your talking about,so i am going to try a high steer set up as i think thats alot to do with my binding, ihave heard on this site about tack bars breaking and ive tried to do this project without one ,so i am going to take your advise and try the track bar again but in a differant position,but i am a little cautous as the way i look at it is one link on the bottom at a angle seem to me that it would be pushing all the time and fighting with the track bar?i went with the a arm as i have seen other set up like this and seem much sturdier,how do they do it ?as for going full hydro would be great if i can afford it and i would do it if it was freeway safe?thanks guys i will let you know how its doing

slowerthanthou thanks for posting my pics and your advise,pig i know you know what your talking about,so i am going to try a high steer set up as i think thats alot to do with my binding, ihave heard on this site about tack bars breaking and ive tried to do this project without one ,so i am going to take your advise and try the track bar again but in a differant position,but i am a little cautous as the way i look at it is one link on the bottom at a angle seem to me that it would be pushing all the time and fighting with the track bar?i went with the a arm as i have seen other set up like this and seem much sturdier,how do they do it ?as for going full hydro would be great if i can afford it and i would do it if it was freeway safe?thanks guys i will let you know how its doing oh i see i have my red star now thanks

slowerthanthou thanks for posting my pics and your advise,pig i know you know what your talking about,so i am going to try a high steer set up as i think thats alot to do with my binding, ihave heard on this site about tack bars breaking and ive tried to do this project without one ,so i am going to take your advise and try the track bar again but in a differant position,but i am a little cautous as the way i look at it is one link on the bottom at a angle seem to me that it would be pushing all the time and fighting with the track bar?i went with the a arm as i have seen other set up like this and seem much sturdier,how do they do it ?as for going full hydro would be great if i can afford it and i would do it if it was freeway safe?thanks guys i will let you know how its doing oh i see i have my red star now thanks

does anybody have or know about a bell crank steering set up as someone told me that will work?and the track bar does that go exactly in the same possition as my drag link? if it does not now do i need to relocate it even if it means makeing it shorter

Originally posted by PIG
I think the project is still salvagable. Me too, but I think he's got a lot to undo before he starts throwing more material at it. Came off more asshole-ish than I wanted to, I suppose. :)

The panhard bar / track bar needs to be the same length as the drag link, and be mounted at the same angle as the drag link at ride height - or more specifically, as closely to this as possible. This will minimize bumpsteer because the axle will move laterally over bumps through the exact same arc as the drag link.

Or you could just use this as an excuse to go to full hydraulic steering and stay with the triangulated-link concept. ;)

going full hydro sounds great but also sounds dangerous if a hose brakes , i am going to look into it

Neil, no problem, anytime.


Pig, thank you for the correction, like I said, I was unsure of the proper mounting position, obviously I remembered wrong.

Would a Radius arm type front suspension work better in this case?

:)

Originally posted by Slowerthanu
Neil, no problem, anytime.


Pig, thank you for the correction, like I said, I was unsure of the proper mounting position, obviously I remembered wrong.

Would a Radius arm type front suspension work better in this case?

:)

It could work but would require more time fabing because of what is exisiting allready.

i guest just a hydro steer assist will help but isnt a fix all, unless i go total hydro steer?but thats iffy 85mph on the freeway? pig this weekend i am going to try your idea thanks. still would like to know if anybody knows about bell crank steering?this front end has been time consuming not like the rear

i see the pic s of purple on 4x4 discussion he has a trianglelated link on the bottom front and back why cant i get mine to work?