As some of you know, I purcahsed a front Dana 60 to replace the Toyota axles in my truck pretty soon.

But I am considering selling the 60 front and going with a 44 instead.

Am I nuts? Maybe :eek:


But here is the deal. I can get a set of axles - 44 front/60 rear for $1200. They are GM width, 8 lug, disks front & rear, welded rear, lockright front, knuckles drilled and tapped, 5.89 gears.

I paid $700 for my front Dana 60 - had welded carrier, 4.88's, needs lockouts and calipers and one caliper bracket.


I am looking at getting this front 60 ready to go under my truck and I have a LONG way to go... even more when I consider building the rear 60 to match it.

I want to run 38.5's or 39's under my Toy with a 4.3L, TH350, and Toyota dual cases BTW.


So what do you guys think? I have had several peopel tell me the 60 front is overkill for my needs, and that the 44 will hold up just fine with a good set of shafts and U joints. Remember too - I rode my birfields on some pretty rough trails and never broke one of those, so that may give you an idea as to my driving style and breakage record.

On one hand it seems like I am taking a step backwards here, but on another hand it makes a heck of a lot of economic sense and should hold up just fine for me....

Well? Can't wait to hear the coments on this one :p

Originally posted by DRM
But here is the deal. I can get a set of axles - 44 front/60 rear for $1200. They are GM width, 8 lug, disks front & rear, welded rear, lockright front, knuckles drilled and tapped, 5.89 gears.

I paid $700 for my front Dana 60 - had welded carrier, 4.88's, needs lockouts and calipers and one caliper bracket.


So let's see you can sell the 60 and recovery most of the cost of the new 44/60 combo and have axles that are ready to go? How long do you want to wait for the axles and how much more money do you want to dump into it. I know 60's are the sheet, but a 60 at home ain't worth as much as a 44 under your rig on the trail.

I'd love to have 60's F/R, but time and money dictate. My 2 cents.

I think the 44 is the way to go as well . I have had 60 standard and reverse cut and for a toyota they are rediculous. To much unsprung weight I run 65" dana 44 in front with warn shafts and ctm ujoints and in my opinion it is atleast as strong as the 60 in terms of axleshafts and you still gain 1/2" in ring gear over the yota with 5.89 and a ford 9" rear and have never had any problems with 39 boggers with my truck weight at 3300 pds.:smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin:

and I run tellico all the time live less than 30 min. from there?

Originally posted by jdjanda
I know 60's are the sheet, but a 60 at home ain't worth as much as a 44 under your rig on the trail..

Exactly!

And as I think about this more and more, I see a different strategy emerging....


For now, I may just leave the 22RE in the Toy. Cut out the back of the cab and build the tube bed and extra seating like I had planned, put the 44/60 under the truck, and GO.

Realistically, I can have all of this done by January, and be BACK ON THE TRAIL!

Keep the 60 front, and 4.3L for later... and either build something else, or swap it into the Toy if the 44 and 22RE just aren't up to it all...


It is just that I was pricing a front ARB, rear 4.88 Dana 60 gears, setup kit, and rear Detroit and that alone is more than the already set up 44/60 axles...

In terms of cheapness, go for the 44/60. Swap in the front 60 when you get tired of breaking the 44 or when you find the parts to complete it. This way you can look for those bargains and still wheel.

Funny you should mention this.... I considered just doing the 44 because I couldn't lay my hands on a 60.

Basically the 44 isn't an option, certainly in my case. We have similar situations. I too am running dual cases but it's on a 215 ft lbs of torque engine through dual cases creating nearly 30,000 ft pounds at the axles and with a vehicle weighing 4680. 44's with 38's will never survive this and with your gearing, you'll ease up to a rock attempt to crawl and never know anything is wrong until you hear the snap.

2cents as always and YMMV

david go for light weight, its the way to go im also keeping the 22re its a great motor, as well as I like my w56 very well. I run the toyta reduction box and should have the ott toyota to dana 300 adapter here in about a week. I am going to run a 3.8 atls with the 26 spline front with 1350 joints to my dana 44 and 9".Both of my axles use high grade axleshafts and airlockers. Compare the ring gear and pinion of the 9" to the 60 and there is no comparison as a matter of fact the 9" has a larger pinion with cosiderable less weight. I run a standard cab that I set back 3" on the frame with a tubular bed of 2" dom tubing with a full tank of gas I weigh out at 3300 pounds and can probably cut at least another 300 pds off that easy. I wont break and is very balanced and have a final crawl ratio of 194.47 to 1

Also I want to add that I built all the front and rear complete with air lockers etc , for less that I have ever built a standard rotation front 60:smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin: :smokin:

You couldnt give me another 60 :D :D

Keep it coming guys.... I am gonna decide tomorrow...

i have suffered from 60 envy before and still would get a pair of reverse cut 60's if i could afford it.......
but $ is something i consider, i can break and replace alot of 44 parts and still have money in the back. them 60's parts are $$$

i don't know your driving/wheeling style, but i'm happy with my 44/60 combo. i'm running 36" tires

i also got a 4.3/th350 with dual T-cases :D

i don't know about 38.5's but i'm thinking the 37's look pretty good.........

You realistically think that you can swap in a 4.3L and tranny you choose, build a front and rear D60, cut & tube the rear of your rig and be wheeling any time soon?
If I were you I would do one thing at a time or your rig will be down forever. I've seen way too many people try to rebuild everything at once and end up never finishing one part. You could always get their parts cheap after they give up :)
Go for the D44/60 combo for starters. Then if you need more power do the 4.3L and tranny. Keep the D60 just in case the D44 doesn't hold up.

Well my vote would be for the D60. Whenever I modify my rig I always upgrade. Its like buying a welder, get one bigger than you think you need, and grow into it. You will wish you had the D60 when you finish the rig. Take your time and build it right. As far as weight, a 3.4 ton chev D44 is not going to be a heck of a lot lighter that the D60, and as far as weight it is low to the ground, I always look to lower weight above the CG.

Its like throwing all your money into a toy axle and still having birfs, you will have a setup D44 but still have small axles and ujoints.

I am building a simular setup this winter and I am going to run a RC60 front D60 rear, 4.3, 700r4, GMNP203/fordNP205 doubler. I plan to keep the toy PU body light and put hte weight where it counts.

JMHO.

ok i say dont buy the axles and keep the 60 screw econimical. :flipoff2: i do belive that some one else could probably use those axles. ok if u dont want ppl to know this but he has (had?) a buyer for the 60, he wanted to trade a RD 44 from a F150, the radius arms, a unused used arb for a 44, hysteer arms, 8-lug hubs and rotors, calipers etc.. i still vote to let that guy sell the axle to some one else later on.

a 60 in your front yard is as good as money in the bank. keep it. if you have to run your toy front until you can swing the extra $$$ to finish the 60 and run it. under no circumstance would i get rid of that 60, postpone it's intallation if you must but keep it. they are only going to get harder to find and go up in price.

I say sell it dave ive had over thirty of them and could have put one in my yota if I wanted they are to overrated. The 4x4 market has exploded in the last 2 years and you will and now can buy every piece of a 60 new! But consider the weight I say that a ford 9" housing modified with 3/8"thick 3" o.d. d.o.m. tubbing with 60 inner axles that you can pick up cheap from all the guys that are building r.r. 60 and youve got the strength of a 60 just like sunray has been doing all these years .ARB will be releasing a 35 spline airlocker this spring .

You can build a nine inch ford to any strength level that can be had by a 60 with less weight:smokin:

Originally posted by camo
a 60 in your front yard is as good as money in the bank. keep it. if you have to run your toy front until you can swing the extra $$$ to finish the 60 and run it. under no circumstance would i get rid of that 60, postpone it's intallation if you must but keep it. they are only going to get harder to find and go up in price.

That is what I thinking.... hold on to it and if the 44 dies, I have an upgrade ready to go :D

But no running the Toy front any more - axles were sold weeks ago :p

These pics are old, but when I was going through the D44? or D60? phase, they did it for me:D
http://www.sierrarockcrawlers.com/images2/0847.jpg http://www.sierrarockcrawlers.com/images2/0796.jpg

David: are you outboarding the front springs??

What are you doing in the rear??

Originally posted by convertiyota
David: are you outboarding the front springs??

What are you doing in the rear??

if I stay 60 I have decided to narrow the front long side 3" and match the present spring hangers. if I buy the 44/60 I will outboard the front springs to match the perches.

The rear will be a 4 link w/ double shackles (one on each end) on standard leaf springs.

Originally posted by DRM


The rear will be a 4 link w/ double shackles (one on each end) on standard leaf springs.

Just out of curiousity, why do the double shackles when you've halfway through a 1/4 elip or coil setup (the hard half, too)??

sooner or later you will want a d60 in there you will break the 44. id not rush and go with the d60. i swapped 1/2 tons in my rig ran them for a year snapped the d44 several times with 35s then decided i had enuff and swapped the 1 tons in.

Originally posted by techguru73
I say sell it dave ive had over thirty of them and could have put one in my yota if I wanted they are to overrated
:

30 dana 60's huh? i call bullshit


overrated? do you have any idea what you are even talking about? exactly what is overrated about a 60? the strength? costly perhaps but not overrated.

Originally posted by convertiyota


Just out of curiousity, why do the double shackles when you've halfway through a 1/4 elip or coil setup (the hard half, too)??

I want more flex than the standard spring setup, but I see no need for the insane droop of 1/4's or screwing with coi spring rates and costs....

Besides, like you say - I am halfway there... so that means if I wanna change I don't have far to go ;)

I say definately go wit the 44 dave.. With your driving habits, just weld the joints and i bet ya $$ you will never have an issue with popping joints/axles, even with the 4.3..

You may have a point dave.
As was mentioned earlier though, with the low gear ratios many of us are running these days, there are times when I dont even feel the slightest hint of bind or strain before I hear the snap, and send shrappnell everywhere.
With the ease of replacing an axle assembly in d44 its not that bad, if its only occasional, but when it was happening 2 or 3 times a day, it was getting annoying, and expensive.
However since I have been running the new CTM 300m joints, I have not been able to break a joint. Even doing manuevers like starting a one wheel climb with a sharp turn up a rock, (which would normaly grenade a 297X joint almost certainly everytime I try it). I have almost forgotten that I even have a D44 or ever had a U joint problem. I just climb the way I want, and even hammer down when more volume is the only way up.
The fact that they will be unconditionaly lifetime warrantied, has me contemplating buying another set of Warn high strengths, and CTM joints and setting up, a back up set of assemmblies, for when failuire inevetiably occures, at least Ill just need to swap em out and send em back for warranty replacement.
I have been actively searching for a D60 for a halfway decent price, but know Im rethinking if I need one.

Originally posted by techguru73
I wanted they are to overrated. The 4x4 market has exploded in the last 2 years and you will and now can buy every piece of a 60 new! But consider the weight I say that a ford 9" housing modified with 3/8"thick 3" o.d. d.o.m. tubbing with 60 inner axles that you can pick up cheap from all the guys that are building r.r. 60 and youve got the strength of a 60 just like sunray has been doing all these years .ARB will be releasing a 35 spline airlocker this spring .

You can build a nine inch ford to any strength level that can be had by a 60 with less weight

Ahhh .......the dumb comment for the day :rolleyes: Yeah those 9" diffs are so strong.. wonder why the assassin broke the pinions on it's axels. and that low pinion output is so TITS! and for your information if you are going to have weight don't you think it would be wise to have it low. Like ballast???

Dave if you sell that 60 you will regret it in the long run.. those are like land and will do nothing but go up in price.... So you want to take a shortcut now so you can spend more later and upgrade to it then (have you recently changed your ways man because the DRM I know is the cheapest bastard on the planet)? I have ran both axels. the 60 front was the BEST upgrade yet. Wheeling with the peace of mind that the chance of breakage is very slim and makes wheeling what it use to be. Fun and you don't have trail fixes. A d-44 is good and it's not a question of if it will break but when.. it will only be a matter of time. If you do not have the means a d-44 is a great option but when you have the 60 in your posession you are crazy to let it go.

listen to camo and snort clown. YOU WILL REGRET IT IF YOU SELL IT!!! just finish the 60 and be done with it. there will be no wishing you had. if you need d60 brake caliper brakets give sunray a call. they use 1/2ton brakes on their hybrids so they have caliper brackets. heck they'll be cheap. they just gave me a set when i went up there. put the 60 under it. use a 35spline 60, d70, ford 10.25, or a 14bolt in the rear and be done with it. if you narrow the front 60 3" you'll be at 66" wide and i know alot of d70's came 65" wide so it's an easy swap. do it once and do it right. just my op.:D

Originally posted by SNORTclown
have you recently changed your ways man because the DRM I know is the cheapest bastard on the planet)?

Is it that obvious? :p


Thanks guys... I think that even if I do get the 44/60 axles, I would hold on to the 60 no matter what....

I keep having this urge to build a full tube play rig some time down the road, and the front 60 is definately perfect for that if no my Toy :)


I guess I haven't been out on the trail in so long, the though of a quick & easy axle swap had me drooling to get back out there asap....

Originally posted by high5
listen to camo and snort clown. YOU WILL REGRET IT IF YOU SELL IT!!! just finish the 60 and be done with it. there will be no wishing you had. if you need d60 brake caliper brakets give sunray a call. they use 1/2ton brakes on their hybrids so they have caliper brackets. heck they'll be cheap. they just gave me a set when i went up there. put the 60 under it. use a 35spline 60, d70, ford 10.25, or a 14bolt in the rear and be done with it. if you narrow the front 60 3" you'll be at 66" wide and i know alot of d70's came 65" wide so it's an easy swap. do it once and do it right. just my op.:D


Thanks Brian...

This is a Dodge front 60, so it is 67" wide. Cutting 3" off the long side means I can move one perch and it will bolt under my existing Toyota spring hangers. That puts me @ 64", so you are right, I would need one 63-65" rear 60 to match it.. which I should be able to find. I already have an offset rear J20 60 I considered narrowing the long side of it to match, but I have yet to measure it's width to see what that would work out to.

Sheez, the 6th post and first contrary to the 44 recommendation was mine and I don't get no credit. :rolleyes: Oh well fawkers.:flipoff2:

Originally posted by camo


30 dana 60's huh? i call bullshit

I say your full fo shit I have had over thirty stansard rotation chevy 60's as well as at least eight ford rr 60

overrated? do you have any idea what you are even talking about?

Id hope so I build more of them than youll own in your life!



exactly what is overrated about a 60? the strength? costly perhaps but not overrated. :rasta:

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SNORTclown
[B]

Ahhh .......the dumb comment for the day :rolleyes: Yeah those 9" diffs are so strong.. wonder why the assassin broke the pinions on it's axels. and that low pinion output is so TITS! and for your information if you are going to have weight don't you think it would be wise to have it low. Like ballast???

touche to the dumb comment of the day!:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

With the money steve has he could have build any axle wonder why a nine inch? poss. the ability that you can get a 35 spline pinion try that with your 60 , a third bearing, I really like the comment on the low pinion , you dumda$$ , do you know what a hypoid gearset is the lower the pinion in the housing the more area of tooth contact:flipoff2: :flipoff2:
And obviously you would want the weight low:D :D

Originally posted by techguru73
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SNORTclown
[B]

Ahhh .......the dumb comment for the day :rolleyes: Yeah those 9" diffs are so strong.. wonder why the assassin broke the pinions on it's axels. and that low pinion output is so TITS! and for your information if you are going to have weight don't you think it would be wise to have it low. Like ballast???

touche to the dumb comment of the day!:flipoff2: :flipoff2:

With the money steve has he could have build any axle wonder why a nine inch? poss. the ability that you can get a 35 spline pinion try that with your 60 , a third bearing, I really like the comment on the low pinion , you dumda$$ , do you know what a hypoid gearset is the lower the pinion in the housing the more area of tooth contact:flipoff2: :flipoff2:
And obviously you would want the weight low:D :D

dude set down the crack pipe:flipoff2:

you can spew all the techno babble you want....fact remains the same. ford 9" sucks for rock crawling.

There is a guy here where I live that has 60s front and rear.. But he said it was a PAIN... He cut them to fit.. That ment custom axles the 9 yards... As for 9" ford rears for rock crawlin.. I agree.. They are not for it. They are one of the best forDRAG RACIN!! Yes. Go 1 ton.

Originally posted by techguru73 touche to the dumb comment of the day!

With the money steve has he could have build any axle wonder why a nine inch? poss. the ability that you can get a 35 spline pinion try that with your 60 , a third bearing, I really like the comment on the low pinion , you dumda$$ , do you know what a hypoid gearset is the lower the pinion in the housing the more area of tooth contact
And obviously you would want the weight low

:rasta:
why he chose a 9" is because he needed a lower output since he made his portal axels. had he gone any higher his drivline would come in contact with everything if he where to raise the rig up it becomes too top heavy or too tall. Yes I know what a hypoid gearset is. I have set up many sets of gears in the last 10 years.. alot of 9" and toy diffs which are both hypoid. more tooth contact means friction. that is not always good. in alot of cases it weakens since the gear teeth actually slide or corkscrew across eachother. in really deep ratios or alot of high speeds with deep ratios this causes the hardness to leave the gear because of heat which can cause failure of the lubrication. the 9" is much better than a toy diff since it does have the third bearing and larger pinion head so the failure is much lower. But it is still much weaker than a d-60. Proof??? ok The assassin has around 100 to 1 with a 4.3 v-6 and broke pinions off. now the Quagmire from TTC a couple years ago prior to his 2.5 ton rockwell ran a d-60. he broke teeth off of it. but he was running an eaven larger tire. 5 to 600 hp + NOS air time and harsh abuse and finally his 60 broke so he upgraded. After a period of time might I add. Not in one outing.... also he was running a deeper ratio than the assasin's 2. something diff ratio. So Techguru if your such a GURU why are you on this board always asking questions rather than answering them for people? :flipoff2:

Hello, I'm down in ALABAMA if you sell your 60 I would like to try and buy it if you would PLEASE email me or page me and i'll call you back RayceCarz@aol.com and pager# 334-704-1957

FYI, it has been 2.5 years since this topic was last touched.

FYI, it has been 2.5 years since this topic was last touched.


:laughing: :laughing: :laughing:

FYI, it has been 2.5 years since this topic was last touched.

Yeah, and DRM's rig still isn't on the trail... :laughing:

Yeah, and DRM's rig still isn't on the trail... :laughing:


word. David do what you have to to get it on the trail.

I need a east side connection :D

Dan

David,
I would suggest building the 60 and skipping your 44 in the front. The only way that 44 will live is if you build it with CTM joints and 4340 shafts. Then you still have weaker everything else for a small weight loss and close to the same expense.What little weight your loosing you are gaining back by building a link set-up and using heavy leaf spring packs...If you don't want to mess with coil overs then use regular coil springs...Heck grand cherokee coils weigh in right at 8 pounds a spring..
I have watched a toyota with a wore out 22r break a dana 60 front shaft with only 38.5s....So don't fool yourself into thinking that "regular" 44 will suffice...Well I guess it might since garage wheeling probably iwon't be to tough on it :D

David,
I would suggest building the 60 and skipping your 44 in the front. The only way that 44 will live is if you build it with CTM joints and 4340 shafts. Then you still have weaker everything else for a small weight loss and close to the same expense.What little weight your loosing you are gaining back by building a link set-up and using heavy leaf spring packs...If you don't want to mess with coil overs then use regular coil springs...Heck grand cherokee coils weigh in right at 8 pounds a spring..
I have watched a toyota with a wore out 22r break a dana 60 front shaft with only 38.5s....So don't fool yourself into thinking that "regular" 44 will suffice...Well I guess it might since garage wheeling probably iwon't be to tough on it :D
did you read any of page 2? he built the 60, this post is 2.5 years old, as stated yesterday in this post :shaking: :shaking: :flipoff2:

word. David do what you have to to get it on the trail.

I need a east side connection :D

Dan

It's only been "played with" at some local playgrounds - no real trail action yet :(

did you read any of page 2? he built the 60, this post is 2.5 years old, as stated yesterday in this post :shaking: :shaking: :flipoff2:


This is the intarw3b. Time doesn't exist.

This is the intarw3b. Time doesn't exist.
I wish you didn't exist :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :p

did you read any of page 2? he built the 60, this post is 2.5 years old, as stated yesterday in this post :shaking: :shaking: :flipoff2:


Ummmm. I realize it was 2.5 years ago...I just couldn't miss a oppurtunity to harass David and his never ending projects.. :flipoff2: