Most of you probably don't read Jp magazine, and I don't usually toot my own horn like this, but I made the cover and feature in the September issue of Jp. You don't have to buy it but at least check it out while your buying beer at the grocery store. I'll post pictures when I can.

Just finsished reading it. Very nice jeep. I was wondering if it was any one on here. What happened with Swayaway? You still work there?

I was just thinking of how bad the mag sucked this month and it only had three good articles. Farmermatt's, yours, the XJ tech.

Thanks, I left SAW just over a year ago, it was alot of fun, but have moved on to bigger and better things.

Sweet Jeep. I got the mag just the other day. I thought it was Pig's though from the sticker on the roll bar. your ram is sweet. We have been talking about doing that at the shop for a long time now. It seems just when you think you have a cool idea someone else has beet ya to it. Any more info or pics of your link set up both front and rear??

That was a sweet article. I saw a few pics at Pig's shop. They sure pimped his stickers in the article too. Very cool. Bryan.

pics?

Originally posted by GOAT1
Most of you probably don't read Jp magazine, and I don't usually toot my own horn like this, but I made the cover and feature in the September issue of Jp. I still don't know if its worth buying but at least check it out while your buying beer at the grocery store. I'll post pictures when I can.

Here, nice work by the way.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=1795146

Nice work. I saw you posted this in the other thread a few days ago but didn't realize it was the current edition.

Originally posted by XtremeEngineering
Sweet Jeep. I got the mag just the other day. I thought it was Pig's though from the sticker on the roll bar. your ram is sweet. We have been talking about doing that at the shop for a long time now. It seems just when you think you have a cool idea someone else has beet ya to it. Any more info or pics of your link set up both front and rear??

Is there any specifics you want to know or see?

Good job Goat this MMMMMMMOOOOOOOOOO's for you! :flipoff2:

Sick Pick Drew. It's good to see more Goat representation..
Cory

phat .....

gettin a cover shot is cool and your rig deserves it. for those that have not seen it in person it is one of the trickest jeeps around. it crawls as well as hauls.

hey i have a goat pic as well :flipoff2:

Originally posted by camo
phat .....

gettin a cover shot is cool and your rig deserves it. for those that have not seen it in person it is one of the trickest jeeps around. it crawls as well as hauls.

hey i have a goat pic as well :flipoff2:

is the wife okay with this?

Originally posted by GOAT1


Is there any specifics you want to know or see?

I would personally like to see some more pictures on how the rear suspension is setup. I understand the 4 link, but I do not understand the part the shocks mount to that is linked to the axle. Sweet looking Jeep. Also is that a campbel hood? I thought they only mad yj hoods with the fenders raised in them

Thanks Camo, and nice goat.

I don't have too many pics, it can take some of whatever if any one wants something. Here is a few old ones

Another one

Yes I would love somemore pics of the front link set up.

That rear is just plain sick.

Cool, I make a point to pick up the mag when I buyin beer, haven't got the new issue, but looks good;)
Camo, I don't even want to know the chain of events that occured for a goat to end up in your rig...Hopefully he/she wasn't violated(too much):D

Is that a camo style 60 rearend?

Originally posted by TTURokToy
Is that a camo style 60 rearend?

Yes, it's basically the same thing, uses cone hubs and spindles. I started with a ford center section, it was before Tera and pro-rock, it also has a 35 spline detroit instead on a 40 spline spool like camo has.

Drew,

Congrats on the cover shot...

These guys probably don't know you also were some of the brains on the 4 link article in Petersons a month or two ago...

Dude I read that article yesterday. That thing is badass!!! Congrats on the cover shot too.

XE beat me to it. That rear end is just SICK!!:eek:
nice work man.

Nice paint job. Those shiny Cruiser headers look good under the hood on your Jeep :)

mmmm cover and center fold, nice.

www.hannaquality.com

goat i would really like to see a pic of your front end,looks great a piece of engineering congrats on the cover shot and story, i am have trouble setting up my front end and your set up looks like its the way to go,thanks

damn take it easy on your Jeep.:D

Here is an old shot of the front end, it mostly shows the steering.

Just got it in the mail today. That's awesome. Crawlin' and jumpin' huh. Me likey:D

That is one Beautiful Jeep, Goat1.

A true MULTI-PURPOSE OFF ROAD MACHINE

Take notes you morons.....
:flipoff2:

Here is another one of the rear suspension, I don't have too many finished pics, mostly of the build

nice work bro..congrats on the cover.

Nice heep dude. hope mine is 1/2 as cool when done. nice work.
matt-

Very nice work Drew, detailed fab work is so underapreciated.
Love the rear links.

John

Nice work, I will have to visit Rite-Aid to scan a copy of the article, or borrow a mag to read the article.

Do you like the ride from the mildly rising rate leverage arm & link? The work looks great, and the result should ride quite nice.

Any thoughts of building a rocker arm on the top spring body mount, and RACOR style pushrod link for a tunable exponential rate? RACOR won the Patent Infringement case against Suzuki on this style link system, but it's still legal to fab for personal use (not for sale). The added design element could be made to work with your setup without too much added complexity.

Happy Trails!

Originally posted by Ed A. Stevens
Nice work, I will have to visit Rite-Aid to scan a copy of the article, or borrow a mag to read the article.

Do you like the ride from the mildly rising rate leverage arm & link? The work looks great, and the result should ride quite nice.

Any thoughts of building a rocker arm on the top spring body mount, and RACOR style pushrod link for a tunable exponential rate? RACOR won the Patent Infringement case against Suzuki on this style link system, but it's still legal to fab for personal use (not for sale). The added design element could be made to work with your setup without too much added complexity.

Happy Trails!

Thanks, Ed.

The rising rate arm-link works good. You can't get a true dual rate spring set up with that kind of motion ratio and that amount of travel and that light of sprung weight so it helps to have the rising spring rate as you get near full up-travel, the bypass shocks and air bump help too. I am not familiar with the RACOR link system, or at least not with the name, I could be familiar with it under a different name, care to explain or do you have a link with some info.

Originally posted by GOAT1


Thanks, Ed.

The rising rate arm-link works good. You can't get a true dual rate spring set up with that kind of motion ratio and that amount of travel and that light of sprung weight so it helps to have the rising spring rate as you get near full up-travel, the bypass shocks and air bump help too. I am not familiar with the RACOR link system, or at least not with the name, I could be familiar with it under a different name, care to explain or do you have a link with some info.



I was planning to ask about what you thought of the advantage of running a single rate spring, but could not tell if the photos were of a test coil or the final configuration: it's good to hear it works.

The suspension linkage system I mentioned was used on the early 80's Suzuki MX bikes (I'd have to search to come up with a photo). The Suzuki system was very similar to a design patented by the same guy that patented the inertia valve employed by Edelbrock shocks here in the USA (Edelbrock licenses, from RACOR, the manufacturing and distribution rights to the valve in the USA). The court believed the Suzuki system was close enough to award damages for patent infringement (an award in the range of ~US$17-million, what every garage engineer/fabricator/designer dreams of winning).

The advantage of the system was you could easily alter the compounded leverage ratio working on the shock travel, an adjustable exponential rising rate, for different track conditions. The advantage for a dual purpose 4x4 would be a soft rising rate for rocks and with a quick rocker arm ratio change increase the compressed travel rate to adjust the system for the race back to camp.

I mentioned it, because your upper spring mount could be changed to a rocker arm without too much trouble.

Happy Trails!

Just one thing. I didn't think that they made 7's in 70, but hey whatever.

Cool rig though.

Originally posted by pimptony
Just one thing. I didn't think that they made 7's in 70, but hey whatever.

Cool rig though.

Good eye, it started out as a 83 cj7 but is now registered as a 70 cj5, at this point it's just a matter of wheelbase and what you make the body look like.

I'm not up on motorcycle suspesnsions, but that sounds interesting. I was confused there for a minute, you must be talking about RICOR, which I am somewhat familiar with, but mostly with their shock development, not so much with motorcycle stuff.

Good Job Goat!!! Proud of ya'

Originally posted by GOAT1
I'm not up on motorcycle suspesnsions, but that sounds interesting. I was confused there for a minute, you must be talking about RICOR, which I am somewhat familiar with, but mostly with their shock development, not so much with motorcycle stuff.


It is RICOR ... CRS kicking-in here at work.

Considering your link's close similarity to a motorcycle swingarm, I figured you would be familiar with the advances in motorcycle suspension design (where some of the trick off-road truck linkage systems evolved from). It is somewhere else to look for more progressive rate suspension ideas (if you find yourself wanting to push the design envelope a little more).

Happy Trails!

Originally posted by Ed A. Stevens



It is RICOR ... CRS kicking-in here at work.

Considering your link's close similarity to a motorcycle swingarm, I figured you would be familiar with the advances in motorcycle suspension design (where some of the trick off-road truck linkage systems evolved from). It is somewhere else to look for more progressive rate suspension ideas (if you find yourself wanting to push the design envelope a little more).

Happy Trails!

I think the trick progressive rate off-road truck suspensions are all but lost nowdays with the use of position sensitive bypass shocks. Like we were discussing the other day. Rarely are these modern off-road race cars well thought out and designed, they just put links or a-arms on, throw bypass shocks and air bumpstops on it and get it to work decent. They dont even get the springs dialed in right, they try to do it all with the shocks. You can do alot with a simple velocity sensitive shock and rising rate linkages. The typical racer would have to pay someone like Kudela to design this or pay a crew of fabricators to re-build it a few times to get it to work correctly, not many people can afford to do either so they just have some fabricators build something and throw some bypass shocks on it.

Originally posted by GOAT1


I think the trick progressive rate off-road truck suspensions are all but lost nowdays with the use of position sensitive bypass shocks. Like we were discussing the other day. Rarely are these modern off-road race cars well thought out and designed, they just put links or a-arms on, throw bypass shocks and air bumpstops on it and get it to work decent. They dont even get the springs dialed in right, they try to do it all with the shocks. You can do alot with a simple velocity sensitive shock and rising rate linkages. The typical racer would have to pay someone like Kudela to design this or pay a crew of fabricators to re-build it a few times to get it to work correctly, not many people can afford to do either so they just have some fabricators build something and throw some bypass shocks on it.



Now that I understand where your view of the current technology comes from (and a read of a few recent Dusty Times), I agree that many of the current suspension designs are basic (more conventional system designs, enhanced with bypass shock and bump technology). What I reviewed in the photos last week are truck designs pretty much stuck in the same twin-I-beam rut of ten years ago, with better shocks and the stops you mention (more versions of Herbst's Truggy Pre-Runners). The copycat designer method is quite active (with or without an understanding of the reasoning behind choosing the design).

Your point about the lack of design advancement exposes an opportunity that should be exploited, including advancement of an unlimited 4x4 Truggy or Trophy Truck (if there is money to make it worthwhile). The full size 4x4 (class 4) arena was closing in on unlimited buggy speeds when Kuster's shocks first appeared, and then again just before the factories pulled the funding (with some wild suspension designs). There are many places to improve on this if the class rules allow and the reward is there. The reward/prize money aspect is the limiting factor (the purse and contingency funds may not be worth the effort).

In any case, like you mention, there are a few fabricators who have made a good hobby income over the years from re-building poorly designed off-road trucks (some of these guy's do have help from folks with an engineering background). With an improving economy there may be more funding to shake the competition with some better quality designs. I'll be watching for more good design application and advancement with your name attached (the sport needs another technology race).

Happy Trails!

Congradulations, Very nice work! ;)

Just read the article and after viewing these construction pics.
Damn, Goat, that thing's so purdy it brings tears to my eyes ...

You da man! :cool:

looks great.

It would be cool if you could get more pics of the front links.:D

Also, where are all the guys that normally scream "you need X's all over your cage!!!!1":flipoff2:

Originally posted by LAME
looks great.

It would be cool if you could get more pics of the front links.:D

Also, where are all the guys that normally scream "you need X's all over your cage!!!!1":flipoff2:

I'll try to get more pics of the front links.

You don't need X's, you just need triangles.

Originally posted by GOAT1


I'll try to get more pics of the front links.

You don't need X's, you just need triangles.

Good deal.

I know, just making a sarcastic comment on how the misinformation bandwagon has been quiet in this thread;) :D

Originally posted by LAME


Good deal.

I know, just making a sarcastic comment on how the misinformation bandwagon has been quiet in this thread;) :D

Yes, that has been kind of nice, maybe it's because everyone responding to this thread nows their shit and the misinformation bandwagon is afraid to come here because they will get shot down.

Whats the deal with the chassis? Seems like you got somewhat of a "backbone" design going?

I read the article last night and thought that your steering assist setup up front was pretty much the sweetest design I've seen to date. Where'd you come up with that idea? If it was covered in an earlier post, I am sorry... Trying to scan through while on break.. DAMN nice work brotha!

Originally posted by dotrappe
I read the article last night and thought that your steering assist setup up front was pretty much the sweetest design I've seen to date. Where'd you come up with that idea? If it was covered in an earlier post, I am sorry... Trying to scan through while on break.. DAMN nice work brotha!

I dont know where the idea came from. I could have thought of it myself, but probably saw it on some race truck somewhere. You have to becareful to get all the steering goemetry right though, I sat down and figured it out before I built it and it works very well. It would probably help to have a steering damper on the tie rod, I'm already starting to get some wobble as the rod ends and ball joints wear.

Just how did you come up with that bad-ass drag link and tie-rod design? Truely a work of art...

Oh yea, congrats on the cover. I'm reading it right now. :D

Originally posted by GOAT1
I dont know where the idea came from. I could have thought of it myself, but probably saw it on some race truck somewhere.
Refreshing to see someone who looks hard at other rigs that work and then credits them... There is a whole lot of 'look what I built' in this hobby with way too little attribution to the sources, IMHO.

With so many years of off-road racing, mud-bogging, rock-crawling, etc. -- not to mention paved motorsports -- There aren't that many truly NEW ideas out there, but there are a lot of developments on old ideas.

Props, man. :cool:

Randii

Yes, it is hard to think of something original nowdays, it seems even if you come up with something yourself, someone has already done it. I'm not too much of an "out of the box" thinker, most of my ideas come from something else I have seen, I just try to improve on them or at least try to execute it better. I guess I don't have the time or money to experiment too much, sometimes you just need to get it done so you can hit the trail.

Here is a pic of the front suspension as requested.

Another one

Good work Drew.
MAN that rig is fun to ride in!

Greg

Nice!
Damn you got lots of time into every part on that.:eek:

I don't know if it is where you got the idea, but Dirt Trix built a similiar steering setup that was featured in an article in Fourwheeler back in April 97. Same basic principal as yours except the shackle that pivoted was on the passenger side frame rail instead of the drivers... your setup definately is more compact/tidy. Absolutely awesome fab work on your truck throughout, as has been said earlier... detail work of the type you have done is so underappreciated. I am definately interested in seeing more details on the trussing you did on the axle... Specifically size/wall thickness of the tubing and thickness of the plate steel you used... This goes for both the front and rear of your truck....

Regards,
Michael Rizzi

Originally posted by GOAT1


I dont know where the idea came from. I could have thought of it myself, but probably saw it on some race truck somewhere.

Yes, that was Ben Stuarts I think red Chevy. It's been so long I don't know if I saw it there or somewhere elso first. That was a pretty cool truck I wander what happened to it?

The axle truss on the back on top is 1 1/2 x .120 wall and the plate is 1/8". The back of the rearend is .090". On the front end, the truss is 1/8 on the top and .060 on the sides.

Originally posted by LAME
Nice!
Damn you got lots of time into every part on that.:eek:

And now that he's finally finished his girl said Yes. (Heard thru the grapevine, congrats on both.)

Friend of a friend

I love that truck... just the idea of a trick- no compromise do everything truck... (sound familiar)... very cool.. Now that I think about it though... I have seen similiar steering setups on pre-runners with TTB suspension... it might not be so new... but it is still really trick... one of those details that most people don't take the time to make perfect.... I really appreciate the feedback on your trusses... and in general the info you've given on the truck... If you happen upon any more pics of pretty much anything on your truck, please don't hesitate to post them (or at least zip them all and e-mail them to me ;) )

Regards,
Michael Rizzi



Originally posted by GOAT1
Yes, that was Ben Stuarts I think red Chevy. It's been so long I don't know if I saw it there or somewhere elso first. That was a pretty cool truck I wander what happened to it?

The axle truss on the back on top is 1 1/2 x .120 wall and the plate is 1/8". The back of the rearend is .090". On the front end, the truss is 1/8 on the top and .060 on the sides.

Congrats on the feature article. Very nice rig!!!:flipoff2:

Originally posted by YETI
Congrats on the feature article. Very nice rig!!!:flipoff2:

Got any new pics...... word has it you just cut it half????:confused:

Hey man I bought the magazine before I got on a plane in Denver, I read the article about your rig and looked at the pictures. KICK ASS rig man, very nice job :beer:

Originally posted by Ed A. Stevens


The suspension linkage system I mentioned was used on the early 80's Suzuki MX bikes (I'd have to search to come up with a photo). The Suzuki system was very similar to a design patented by the same guy that patented the inertia valve employed by Edelbrock shocks here in the USA (Edelbrock licenses, from RACOR, the manufacturing and distribution rights to the valve in the USA). The court believed the Suzuki system was close enough to award damages for patent infringement (an award in the range of ~US$17-million, what every garage engineer/fabricator/designer dreams of winning).

The advantage of the system was you could easily alter the compounded leverage ratio working on the shock travel, an adjustable exponential rising rate, for different track conditions. The advantage for a dual purpose 4x4 would be a soft rising rate for rocks and with a quick rocker arm ratio change increase the compressed travel rate to adjust the system for the race back to camp.

Happy Trails!

A couple of things: (If I ramble...eh so what)

1. Beautiful Jeep Goat, it is vehicle that keeps me up at night thinking about my new CJ7, and lamenting my pitiful fabrication skills. I am better at geometry and design than I am a welder...Damn!:mad3:

2. Interesting that Ed wants to adapt the Ricor Rocker Arm (Suzuki Full Floater) to a 4 wheeled vehicle. The original inventor of the system was trying to make it work on an open wheel car, and could not balance the vehicle right to left, so he moved to the motorcycles. It was not easy by the way as the test bike was refitted several times over a long time period before it worked. It would not be pratical for the average off road team to design, tune and perfect a rocker without a substancial budget and lots of development and testing time. (Opinion of mine, flame away) I think it would be very difficult for a garage mechanic. Now rocker arms are common in all forms of racing and the design has been dramatically refined. It may now be possible?

3. Goat, with respect to your hydraulic steering ram, does it use a standard shock piston or is it custom. I would like to make my own hydraulic assist (seems like an interesting project) but I am not sure as to how to make the internals of the ram. Does it use a SAW standard deflective disc piston? Also if it is a deflective disc working piston, does it have a linear, digressive or progressive stack. It seems to me that as a steering stabilizer it would be ideal to be progressive, however this implies low damping at low velocities (high bleed) which would reduce the effectiveness of the ram, and possibly require much more pump pressure and volume to compensate. I am trying to figure out if this will work or if I just need to build one and try it.

Thanks for sparking my curiosity on this.

Front suspension - It looks like you welded the bracket for the top link to the pumpkin. Is this the case? I want to do the same on a comp buggy but am worried about cracking at the welds.

Nice work.

Yes, I did cut the back off and the cage, I am lengthening the wheel base buy about a foot, will be about 106", that seems to work for alot of people. I am doing it to add stability at high speeds, work better in the whoops and climp a little better, and will add a third seat/ fridge in the middle behind the front seats. I am ditching the rocker arms, (any one want to buy them?) going to try something else. Also, I am cutting out the cage, any one interested in that?

Beat95YJ, that ram has a custom piston, it is solid with no valving so it will act as a ram. The piston from an old Custer 2 in are spring.

SuperRanger: Yes I did weld to the cast center section, so far I have not had any problems. I TIG it with SS 312 rod, with a lot of weld area.

Thanks Goat! I'll spin one up and see how it works.

Goat

I was rereading the article and was wondering about the demensions or the fuel cell and also what capacity it is?

Thanks

Any New Updates??

Interested in the new rear suspension design.

I'll post up some pictures, I am working away at it, I was invited on Ultimate Adventure, but with my slow pace, I wont have it together in time.

Cool.
Looking forward to it.

Nice work - I'm not sending you the rocker arm report 'cause it ain't anywhere near that nice...

BTW - where's the 3/8" plate? I think your 4 link pivot brackets are too thin and will break:)

Brian

VERY NICE!!!! That's some of the best fab work and engineering I've seen on the board. :smokin:

(I'm buying the mag tonight!)

Check the date of the original post. Does your news stand still have the September 03 issue on the shelf? :)

Here are some pics of the latest progress

Here are some pics of the latest progress

Dude, you need to get your shizel to gether........... we got a race coming up.

Looks pretty sick.
How much Wheel base did ya gain?

Why the different shock set up?

Digging this one back up. Any updates Drew?

I just got it back together and took it to SEMA and was planning on taking it on the Shaffer's run. Here are a few pics from SEMA.

Another

Yet another

I have been waiting

Any New Pics of the new rear suspension???

I have been waiting

Any New Pics of the new rear suspension???

I will have to get some more, these are just what I had here at work.

I found some more, here is the rear suspension, pretty simple.

It may be simple, but oh so clean.

How much Wheel base did ya gain?

Why the different type link setup or coil/shock mounts?

How much Wheel base did ya gain?

Why the different type link setup or coil/shock mounts?


I added a foot of wheel base for a total of 107".

The new set up works better because the shocks and swaybar are mounted as far out as they can get which help greatly on the stability and handling. The rocker arms were just too much maintenance and a PITA to work on. They were a little too progressive with was unnecessary with the bypass shocks.

Am I wrong but I think I see two differnt housings?

Either way, very nice.

Dan

Am I wrong but I think I see two differnt housings?

Either way, very nice.

Dan
Good eye. I see the same thing

Damn.....

Those are tight wheelz......... got anymore pics of them?

Those are tight wheelz......... got anymore pics of them?
I'm gonna wait til I hear from them after the Baja 1000 to see if they take care of it.

Those are tight wheelz......... got anymore pics of them?

Whose are those? I want some! Love the color :flipoff2:

Am I wrong but I think I see two differnt housings?

Either way, very nice.

Dan


I think it is the same Dana 60 in the two pics, but it has a funky alum cover with truss tied in?!?

Where can I get my wheels powdercoated like that? Those are awesome! I bet they would work great on a desert rally rig like yours.

Those are Robby Gordon wheels. The powder coating wasn't my first choice but that's all they had when I needed them. I will probably strip them and polish them because the powder coat has a bunch of hairline cracks.

Those are Robby Gordon wheels. The powder coating wasn't my first choice but that's all they had when I needed them. I will probably strip them and polish them because the powder coat has a bunch of hairline cracks.


Are you sure its just the clear coat that is cracked? :flipoff2:

You are worried about cracks in the powder coat? Is that a mall crawler? :rolleyes:

You are worried about cracks in the powder coat? Is that a mall crawler? :rolleyes:

No, it's a show car :flipoff2:

No, it's a show car :flipoff2:

A Jeep show car? Lame! You should off the beadlocks and switch to 22's :flipoff2: