I see all these threads about t-case mounts and what's strong enough and GRS versus Sidekick trans w/ a divorced Sammy case and 4.16 or 4.7 or 6 to 1 and on and on and on...............Why not just bolt a Toy tranny and dual cases to the back of a 1.6L Kick motor and get it over with????????? You get strength and you get a ton of crawl ratios to choose/build from.

DISCLAIMER: I am not a dealer for of any of the products and /or brand names that were metioned above in this thread. I am not promoting, representing, or in any way encouraging the purchase and/or use of any of the products mentioned in this thread, as perscribed by the rules and regulations that Camo told me about.

Right...
and while your at why don't ya just get rid of the 1.6 and get say a 4.3 SM465 and an AtlasII with say a 4.0 Klune? Cause that's right it cost CASH MONEY! Kerry come awnn, say you didn't mean it.

Well first things first, The costs: 4.3 and 1.6 would be comparable as far a purchase price for the units. But the costs that you would incur to install the 4.3 would be much greater than the 1.6. The injection, H.P., torque and the ease of swapping in the 1.6 is a great advantage over the 1.3, and the 4.3 would definitely have more than enough muscle above and beyond the 1.3 or 1.6. I would argue though that gearing is the key not horsepower in this scenario.
Next we would need to get a tranny and an adapter to bolt up between the 4.3 or the 1.6 to the transmissions(Toy for 1.6,....tranny of your choice for the 4.3), cost here I believe would be equal, again I'm assuming some one makes an adapter for 4.3 engines as well as 1.6 engines(I know what assume means, so correct me if I'm wrong Fatkid). So at this point costs are even for engines/tranny/adapter, but fabrication and install costs I know would be 5-10 times for a 4.3 than that of a 1.6 swap.
Cost of t-cases: Toy-$50+ each...
Atlas- $2300.......
Dual case adapter for toy t-cases: $375
Klune-v setup W/ aprropriate adapter: $2400-2700

Now what is the cost comparison:

4.3 w/atlas and klune-V...........$6000-10,000
1.6 w/ toy trans/tcases............$1800-4300
Prices above reflect stock components versus crate engines and regearing etc.

And when all is said and done the 1.6 w/ Toy tranny and dual cases is only 2" longer than a stock Sammy trans and single t-case set up.
Stock length....engine-rear t-case flange..............42.5"
1.6 w/ toys......engine-rear t-case flange..............44.5"
I must admit that I don't know what the lenghth of the 4.3 w/ a tranny of choice/atlas/adapter/Klune-v would be, Maybe Fatkid or someone out there knows..by the end of the day I will go out to the shop and get all the measurements and re post...it'll just take some time to line up all the parts on the floor and measure. UPDATE......... Got the tape out and the Atlas /Klune setup with a 465 is......39" from engine to tail of the Klune, not bad at all, 3.5" better than stock and 5.5" shorter than the Toy set up!! But like you said Fatkid it's alot a cash to save 3-6 inches!! Kerry

DISCLAIMER: I am not a dealer for of any of the products and /or brand names that were metioned above in this thread reply. I am not promoting, representing, or in any way encouraging the purchase and/or use of any of the products mentioned in this thread reply, as perscribed by the rules and regulations that Camo told me about.

Originally posted by kerry1.6-toyota


Now what is the cost comparison:

4.3 w/atlas and klune-V...........$6000-10,000
1.6 w/ toy trans/tcases............$1800-4300
Prices above reflect stock components versus crate engines and regearing etc.



I sure don't know where you are getting your pricing from?
Secondly why would you go atlas, and klune? That defeats the whole purpose of going 4.3. Whay wouldn't you run an auto tranny. Loads of torque, and you don't have to get stupid with gearing.

I built my whole truck two years ago. 4.3, 700R4, D18 t-case, adapter, rad , harness, exhaust, D44 axles, suspension, driveshafts, and all the other add on's and bits and pieces for, including a set of 38" sx's for 7000.00 CANADIAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!

a 4.3 with atlas and klune would be very hard on the motor. IMHO it is tooooo much gear.Auto is the way to go with a 4.3, at half the price.

:smokin:

Retail prices.and don't ask me why ask Fatkid it was his idea!!

Retail prices are as follows:

4.3 Engine........$2300
SM465..............$ 900
Atlas II..............$2400
Klune-V.............$1900
Total.................$7500

Then there is the misc. parts like motor mounts, radiator, drive shafts, crossmembers, exhaust, injection or carb, nuts and bolts and belts and computers and on and on and on.

So that's how I got the price range thing.

DISCLAIMER: I am not a dealer for of any of the products and /or brand names that were metioned above in this thread reply. I am not promoting, representing, or in any way encouraging the purchase and/or use of any of the products mentioned in this thread reply, as perscribed by the rules and regulations that Camo told me about.

The Atlas and the Klune work great together, The TJ that were finishing up has a AtlasII (4.3)and a Klune(4.0). He is somthing like 340/1 and likes it. The gearing also works fine behind his 4.0L, and the 5.38's that he has in the 44's he running. How do you defeat the purpose when it comes to gearing?

Originally posted by kerry1.6-toyota
Why not just bolt a Toy tranny and dual cases to the back of a 1.6L Kick motor and get it over with?????????

Some of us don't have the option. Sure, I would kill for dual cases, but I don't have the fabrication skills/knowledge to know how to take on something this big, and I don't even want to think of the cost that some of the local shops would charge for labor to do this. That's why some of us go with other options, such as a complete case with 6:1's in it. Throw in some 5.12 axle gears and you're sitting at about 115:1 crawl ratio. That's not to shabby for a complete bolt on set-up. Sure, you need to pay a shop to install the r&p's, but I don't think most people set-up their own axles. So it's just a matter of money and skills for some. Remember, not everyone can just go out to their machine shop and throw in a new motor, trans, and a pair of cases. :flipoff2: ~Steve

Steve, You make a great point. I guess sometimes I do forget that all of us don't have garages and all the equipment. Your absolutely right!! Kerry

Retail Prices?

Were'd you find this Dual Toy case adapter for $375 retail? I want one.

All pro

DISCLAIMER: I am not a dealer for of any of the products and /or brand names that were metioned above in this thread reply. I am not promoting, representing, or in any way encouraging the purchase and/or use of any of the products mentioned in this thread reply, as perscribed by the rules and regulations that Camo told me about.

AllPro is $399 I have bought 2 from them this year:D so get your facts stright;) + tax & shipping, around $429

YOTASAN,I hope you didn't pick thoes nits for me..........:rolleyes:

last I checked it was down to $375 for the adapter at allpro

Sorry Mr Seabass but that is the straight facts. Thats what Chris quoted me this past Thursday. So stop questioning my facts and figures tough guy!! You got a problem with "my" facts you take it up with Chris at All Pro and get your finger outta my face!


DISCLAIMER: I am not a dealer for of any of the products and /or brand names that were metioned above in this thread reply. I am not promoting, representing, or in any way encouraging the purchase and/or use of any of the products mentioned in this thread reply, as perscribed by the rules and regulations that Camo told me about.

Originally posted by fatkid
The Atlas and the Klune work great together, The TJ that were finishing up has a AtlasII (4.3)and a Klune(4.0). He is somthing like 340/1 and likes it. The gearing also works fine behind his 4.0L, and the 5.38's that he has in the 44's he running. How do you defeat the purpose when it comes to gearing?

My point was to not defeat the purpose of using an auto tranny.
If I was running a stick, yes I would have one or the other. Both.
IMHO anything over 150 is a waste of time, and money.:smokin:

Originally posted by kerry1.6-toyota
Sorry Mr Seabass but that is the straight facts. Thats what Chris quoted me this past Thursday. So stop questioning my facts and figures tough guy!! You got a problem with "my" facts you take it up with Chris at All Pro and get your finger outta my face!


DISCLAIMER: I am not a dealer for of any of the products and /or brand names that were metioned above in this thread reply. I am not promoting, representing, or in any way encouraging the purchase and/or use of any of the products mentioned in this thread reply, as perscribed by the rules and regulations that Camo told me about.
easy enough to say that in the 1st place, tough guy;) note the use of smilies in my post:D:D not the [!] you used. If I wanted to be in your face I would have said it like this! Not like this;) Understand now? At least you are not spaming as bad now:D:D:D:D

Originally posted by mudlite


My point was to not defeat the purpose of using an auto tranny.
If I was running a stick, yes I would have one or the other. Both.
IMHO anything over 150 is a waste of time, and money.:smokin:

I see your point, I have an auto in my Scout. Although 340/1 is a waste to some It has it's place. 2nd, 3rd,4th and 5th work well on the trail. As for first it's awsome when we use it to put the Jeep on the trailer...:flipoff2:

Originally posted by fatkid


I see your point, I have an auto in my Scout. Although 340/1 is a waste to some It has it's place. 2nd, 3rd,4th and 5th work well on the trail. As for first it's awsome when we use it to put the Jeep on the trailer...:flipoff2:

What do you have in the TJ? engine, suspension.....etc.?
:confused:

He has the RE long Arm kit, 5.38's, 4.3/1 atlasII, 4.0 Klune, 44 rear w/ARB, HP 44 front w/ARB, Dual yellow tops, Ready Welder, HS9500i, Rs 9000, Currie Anti Rock, Supperior axles, AGR Steering, 7/8 Currie Chromoly Tie Rod and Drag link, Borla Stainless Header and Exhaust, Champion Beadlocks, 38" TSL SX's Rear Disk Conversion, K&N, Crane Ignition, and a bunch of Tube, and a 4.0L. If some ask he's got about $70k into it, it's a 98'

Originally posted by fatkid
He has the RE long Arm kit, 5.38's, 4.3/1 atlasII, 4.0 Klune, 44 rear w/ARB, HP 44 front w/ARB, Dual yellow tops, Ready Welder, HS9500i, Rs 9000, Currie Anti Rock, Supperior axles, AGR Steering, 7/8 Currie Chromoly Tie Rod and Drag link, Borla Stainless Header and Exhaust, Champion Beadlocks, 38" TSL SX's Rear Disk Conversion, K&N, Crane Ignition, and a bunch of Tube, and a 4.0L. If some ask he's got about $70k into it, it's a 98'

Thats sick:eek:

Nice ride.:D

Jesus, Fishboy, it seems all you tough , sensitive guys on the left coast are, are, are, how can I say this.......Sensitive..........not that there's anything wrong with that!

Originally posted by kerry1.6-toyota
Jesus, Fishboy, it seems all you tough , sensitive guys on the left coast are, are, are, how can I say this.......Sensitive..........not that there's anything wrong with that!
Fuck that, you want to call me an ASSHOLE go for it:D Please stop FUCKING up my name, karina:D:flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2: :flipoff2:

Whoa, get this land locked finster some tissues, hell I didnt expect ya to get so freaked out (another way of saying "sensitive") I'll back off, wouldn't want you to end up getting counseling! Seebash take a pill. Signed, Katrina.... and that's with a K seabass44<make ya feel better?

Originally posted by kerry1.6-toyota
Whoa, get this land locked finster some tissues, hell I didnt expect ya to get so freaked out (another way of saying "sensitive") I'll back off, wouldn't want you to end up getting counseling! Seebash take a pill. Signed, Katrina.... and that's with a K seabass44<make ya feel better?




LOL ........10,000 out of work stand up comics, what makes you think you are FUNNY? :rasta: :rasta: :rasta:

Now that's some funny shit there c-bass, funny,funny stuff. Eric Estrada. You couldn't of picked a better loser. Excellent.
You are the wind beneath my wings, Bassboy!

Kay Kay (that's with a K)


Hey but in all seriousness, we're gettin' away from that 4x4 subject don't ya think? So nuff laughter for one night, let's get back to the real deal.......ROCKS and SH#T!!

ok ok ok, I like the idea of a toy tranny, case in a sammy. but why not just go 22r and be done with it? easy all toy, only a dual case adapter. plenty of power, easy swap, go for 44's or toy axles while we are at it too.

Seabass, Sitting right now in one of my garage bays is just that Sammy you described....Moved both the toy axles with 5;29's towards the ends 2.5" each, put'em on coils........installed a 22re with Toy trans and t-cases, Works great.

Now I'm in the process of a Sammy with a 2.4L diesel turbo(if I can find a turbo and manifold) Toy axles, turbo tranny and cases.
Even though that might change to a SM465 after Fatkids suggestion today......Anyone know if there is an adapter to hook Toy cases up to a 465? 6:56 x 2:28 x 2:28 x 5:29 = 181 to 1 !!!

DISCLAIMER: I am not a dealer for of any of the products and /or brand names that were metioned above in this thread reply. I am not promoting, representing, or in any way encouraging the purchase and/or use of any of the products mentioned in this thread reply, as perscribed by the rules and regulations that Camo told me about.

You mean to tell me you don't make one.

A set of 6.1 t-case gears will cost you only $1000 and you'll have more gearing that most people would ever need. Add a set of beefy t-case arms or a t-case bucket, and you're set for life. This is a lot cheaper than installing a new motor, tranny, dual t-cases, and associated miscellaneous parts.

Sean White has installed a 16v 1600 with Toyota tranny and a couple Toyota t-cases in his LWB Samurai. Looks nice, and it should work well, but even fitting all of that into a LWB has been a MAJOR project that has required extensive tranny tunnel fabrication. For those who are interested, the buildup of that Zuk is being posted in Off-Road.com's Suzuki section.

It's true that dual or triple Toyota t-cases provide lower gearing than a single 6.1 Suzuki t-case, but don't forget that dual t-cases can be done in Samurai too with that new kit. How's dual 6.1's sound, if you actually need gearing that low?

-- Geoff Beasley

Isn't there a Toyota board around here someplace?:)

[QUOTE]Originally posted by kerry1.6-toyota
Seabass, Sitting right now in one of my garage bays is just that Sammy you described....Moved both the toy axles with 5;29's towards the ends 2.5" each, put'em on coils........installed a 22re with Toy trans and t-cases, Works great.

Now I'm in the process of a Sammy with a 2.4L diesel turbo(if I can find a turbo and manifold) Toy axles, turbo tranny and cases.
Even though that might change to a SM465 after Fatkids suggestion today......Anyone know if there is an adapter to hook Toy cases up to a 465? 6:56 x 2:28 x 2:28 x 5:29 = 181 to 1 !!!

DISCLAIMER: I am not a dealer for of any of the products and /or brand names that were metioned above in this thread reply. I am not promoting, representing, or in any way encouraging the purchase and/or use of any of the products mentioned in this thread reply, as perscribed by the rules and regulations that Camo told me about. [/QUOTE


OTTindustries.com

Originally posted by zukiman

It's true that dual or triple Toyota t-cases provide lower gearing than a single 6.1 Suzuki t-case, but don't forget that dual t-cases can be done in Samurai too with that new kit. How's dual 6.1's sound, if you actually need gearing that low?

-- Geoff Beasley

dual Samuari Tcase KIT?...WTH...whos got that one on the market..?
:D

Originally posted by kerry1.6-toyota
Retail prices are as follos:
Klune-V.............$1900



I'll take a Klune if you can get me one for a Samurai for $1900.

Originally posted by 0ILBURNER



I'll take a Klune if you can get me one for a Samurai for $1900.

:laughing:...Yeah Me Too...:D

ammelk and Oilburner need to read more carefully and pay attention to the discussion: 4.3 engine-SM465 tranny-atlas II case-Klune-V .......................Not Zuk engine-Zuk tranny-Zuk case.

Klune-V for Zuk...............$2700
DISCLAIMER: I am not a dealer for of any of the products and /or brand names that were metioned above in this thread reply. I am not promoting, representing, or in any way encouraging the purchase and/or use of any of the products mentioned in this thread reply, as perscribed by the rules and regulations that Camo told me about.

Originally posted by zukiman
A set of 6.1 t-case gears will cost you only $1000 and you'll have more gearing that most people would ever need. Add a set of beefy t-case arms or a t-case bucket, and you're set for life. This is a lot cheaper than installing a new motor, tranny, dual t-cases, and associated miscellaneous parts.

Sean White has installed a 16v 1600 with Toyota tranny and a couple Toyota t-cases in his LWB Samurai. Looks nice, and it should work well, but even fitting all of that into a LWB has been a MAJOR project that has required extensive tranny tunnel fabrication. For those who are interested, the buildup of that Zuk is being posted in Off-Road.com's Suzuki section.

It's true that dual or triple Toyota t-cases provide lower gearing than a single 6.1 Suzuki t-case, but don't forget that dual t-cases can be done in Samurai too with that new kit. How's dual 6.1's sound, if you actually need gearing that low?

-- Geoff Beasley

Geoff, where is this kit??? I think the problem with this would be even a stock case, has a gear reducition in high!!! Can you say trailer queen??

While installing the toy stuff hasnt exactly been a weekend bolt-in upgrade, it isn't that hard either. Most of the work and time have been in figuring it out, and planning the whole combo. If I had to do another one, it would be a lot simpler.

The set-up will fit in any sami, not just a LWB. The LWB does improve the rear driveline angle, but thats about it. I finished the tunnel, and I am now working on a subframe for the seats.

0.04 posts per day where ya been hidding Geoff.....:flipoff2:

Well I am running a side kick 1.8 sport motor ,trans and t-case and then a GRS-2 it comes out to be 172-1 :smokin: It works great!I placed 6th in ARCA and Won Calrocks and I have never broke a sami case ...And I beat the shit out of it!!:eek:

There ya go, I think I just regained my confidence in the Sammy t-case.

Fatty ,you should jump on the 6to1,then later you can do the dual/toy thing in the buggy........:D I'm considering one for my driver .

I want to but TB and I are working on some buggys, I'm kinda just wheeling the Sammy for what it is. With that said, for what it is the sammy gets it.:)

Originally posted by RudeZuk


Geoff, where is this kit??? I think the problem with this would be even a stock case, has a gear reducition in high!!! Can you say trailer queen??


I don't have the exact contact information for the guys, but here's a thread from the ORC BBS from a while back: http://bbs.off-road.com/wwwthreads//showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=offroadsuzuki&Number=496621&page=&view=&sb=&vc=1

Also, a kid by the name of Anton Sheng has built his own dual t-case setup in his Samurai. The 40% high range reduction in the stock t-case is pretty significant though, but if you're running big tires, that's exactly what you need. But if it's a trailer queen, then high range doesn't matter at all.

So with a 3.65 first gear, a KluneV, and dual 6.1's turning 5.89 Dana 44's, I come up with a 3299:1 compound low ratio. Do Toyota's really have the best crawl ratio's available? :flipoff2:

-- Geoff Beasley

Originally posted by zukiman



So with a 3.65 first gear, a KluneV, and dual 6.1's turning 5.89 Dana 44's, I come up with a 3299:1 compound low ratio. Do Toyota's really have the best crawl ratio's available? :flipoff2:

-- Geoff Beasley


damn....

thats still 20% longer than a Unimog w/ crawler.... :D
:D

aLFRED

Retail pRetail prices are as follows:

4.3 Engine........$2300
SM465..............$ 900
Atlas II..............$2400
Klune-V.............$1900
Total.................$7500

rices are as follows:

Originally posted by zukiman
So with a 3.65 first gear, a KluneV, and dual 6.1's turning 5.89 Dana 44's, I come up with a 3299:1 compound low ratio. Do Toyota's really have the best crawl ratio's available? :flipoff2:

How many do you want to stack? Seabass runs triple t-cases (no low range gear sets), so lets go ahead and do 4. Then just fill them with marlin Crawler gearsets:

4.3 x 4.7 x 4.7 x 4.7 x 4.7 x 5.29= <font color="red">11,099.81</font>

And it would only be 18" longer than stock (6" per 'extra' case). Try that with a klune and an extra case in a sammy.

Of course, with either of these setups you'd have a very long drivetrain, a useless gear, and would shatter things instantly if you blipped the throttle... but since we're playing the numbers game... :p

Oh, and Kerry?<font color="red"> You can put a SM465/SM420 into a Toyota drivetrain</font> - See? (http://www.ottindustries.com/SM465_SM420_to_Toyota_case.html)

Originally posted by fatkid
You mean to tell me you don't make one.

Too Funny :D

Yota, I've checked that out and it looks like a very good possibility. Thanks, Kerry

Hi Guys :)

Well it’s been awhile, but I had to say something here mainly because your all talking about stuff we make indirectly. Going with the 1.6 and the Toyota trans and t-case as you all know you lose your low high range no more fun on the street so why not just go Toyota all the way and don’t tell me you have to modified your tunnel because any tranny you would use to get away from the weak Sami transmission you will have to modified your tunnel. Next 4.3 - SM to a Toy low range to a Dana 300 total cost $1700. $500 for 4.3 $50 for a SM 420(7.05 first gear) $50 for a Toyota t-case $100 for a Dana300, and about $1000 for the adapters. With only 4.10 ring and pinion you’re at 148:1 and truly have a solid set up. Now as for using the 1.6 you can use this motor with its tranny and a side kick low range box (check out our web site) to a Sami t-case you still have your low high range and again its a low buck setup. If you want to have some real fun put the 6:1 gears in both cases and your like 546:1. And then of course you can say screw you all and use whatever motor and tranny you want and just put a divorced t-case. There is no best way to go just the way you want to go depending on how good you are on the welder. IMOP



:smokin: :smokin:

P.S. got that thing going yet Sean?

Question.......What do you mean by the statement that you lose your low high range? Maybe I'm a little dense here, but I don't understand what your saying. Could you explain this to me? Kerry

With a low gear Sami t-case or sidekick t-case you get the reduced high range allowing you to run larger tires and still get some highway speeds.

Originally posted by RICK@OTTINDUSTRIES
Hi Guys :)

Well it’s been awhile, but I had to say something here mainly because your all talking about stuff we make indirectly. Going with the 1.6 and the Toyota trans and t-case as you all know you lose your low high range no more fun on the street so why not just go Toyota all the way and don’t tell me you have to modified your tunnel because any tranny you would use to get away from the weak Sami transmission you will have to modified your tunnel. Next 4.3 - SM to a Toy low range to a Dana 300 total cost $1700. $500 for 4.3 $50 for a SM 420(7.05 first gear) $50 for a Toyota t-case $100 for a Dana300, and about $1000 for the adapters. With only 4.10 ring and pinion you’re at 148:1 and truly have a solid set up. Now as for using the 1.6 you can use this motor with its tranny and a side kick low range box (check out our web site) to a Sami t-case you still have your low high range and again its a low buck setup. If you want to have some real fun put the 6:1 gears in both cases and your like 546:1. And then of course you can say screw you all and use whatever motor and tranny you want and just put a divorced t-case. There is no best way to go just the way you want to go depending on how good you are on the welder. IMOP



:smokin: :smokin:

P.S. got that thing going yet Sean?

best answer so far.........

Still don't get how a Toy tranny and t-case inhibits on-highway speeds. I have not noticed any real difference, 60-65mph is not a problem even with 33" tires. Granted that with the increase in diameter and the greater rolling resistance created by running a taller and wider tire on-highway performance is going to be comprimised no matter what your running in the case of a 4cyl. engine that's designed to run at low RPM and be well mannered for crawling type performance. But, I must say this whole 420/465 tranny setup has me intrigued. Anyone out there able give me an over all measurement of what the length of a 420/465 tranny, Ott adapter, dual Toy case set up would be. Keep in mind I would bolt this up to a Toy diesel engine. Thanks. Kerry DISCLAIMER: I am not a dealer for of any of the products and /or brand names that were metioned above in this thread. I am not promoting, representing, or in any way encouraging the purchase and/or use of any of the products mentioned in this thread, as perscribed by the rules and regulations that Camo told me about.

when you put in t-case gears in a sammie, it changes the final drive ratio in high range, the same as changing the r&p ratio, the gearsets in toy trannys does not affect the high range outpus as in a sammie transfer case, hope that clears it up for you.

Going with the 1.6 and the Toyota trans and t-case as you all know you lose your low high range




Seabass,I thought that was the case, but after seeing the above statement, I was saying .............What? Kerry

Originally posted by kerry1.6-toyota





Seabass,I thought that was the case, but after seeing the above statement, I was saying .............What? Kerry
u know with the net you can write something that only makes sence to yourself, but no one else can understand:D I'am guilty more then once on that:rasta:

Sorry Guys

Poor wording, what I was trying to say was reduced high range. Is that more clearly stated? Anyway when you get into the 35 36 inch tire range no one can tell me that they don’t need it because I drive one with 36's and a 1.6:rasta:


Oh I will try to get the length of the SM set up tomorrow

Rick:

Nope its still not running...but getting close and coming out better than I'd hoped. You can see pics at our club's new site www.sonic.net/jkwaters I just started cycling the suspension, so I'm not sre about the steering arms, but I need to switch to Waggy springs, I'm hitting the firewall hard. I'll keep ya posted.

Originally posted by scwafish
Rick:

Nope its still not running...but getting close and coming out better than I'd hoped.
Keep us posted. What are you doing about keeping rocks, dirt, and mud from getting onto the engine off of the tires with that tube front clip? Not worrying about it? :cool:

Anyway, looks good:
<img src="http://www.sonic.net/jkwaters/images/clipfront2.jpg">

Originally posted by Yota_San

Keep us posted. What are you doing about keeping rocks, dirt, and mud from getting onto the engine off of the tires with that tube front clip? Not worrying about it? :cool:



Yes! Please let us know what you do for mud and salt spray.

I have been looking at tube front ends to cure one of my truck's front end tin worm but if I can't keep the mud and highway salt spray off the engine it looks like new stock fenders might be the way to go. Definately not a s cool looking though.

r@m

Kerry, and anyone else that might not be following the point about high range in a Sam box being reduced...

On a Sam high range is 1.41:1, and low is something like 2.26:1.

A SJ-410 t-case is 1.58:1 and something like 2.56:1

Using a Rocklobster style case gives 1.58:1 and 4.1:1 respectively,

A GRS II gives something like 1.67:1 in high and 4.89 in low.

Not sure about the Sumo style gears, maybe 1.68 and 6.1:1?

A TracKick case is 1:1 in high (i.e. no reduction) and 1.82: in low, Toyotas are something like 1:1 and 2.28:1 but I'm not certain about that - I know the Suzuki stuff.

So, if you are trying to make a streetable, dual-purpose Samurai you have to design around the high range t-case ratio (or lack thereof), the idea being that you don't want to have to drive long distances at 65 mi/h with the engine buzzing at 5000+ RPM. At least I don't.

The only other case that I know of that has a reduced high range is the Land Rover. Not even sure if the newer ones are still that way.

r@m

How does the tube front end connect to the body?

Originally posted by mudlite
How does the tube front end connect to the body?

the ones I've seen either use the door hinges or are welded to a plate that is attached to the firewall with bolts - or a combination. Check out Chris V's site, he's got a nice series of images showing how he did his. If memory serves his does not use the door hinges.

r@m

Hey Sean, that tube front end looks even better than I thought it would! I'm anxious to see how good it looks in person. Gimme a call one of these days.

-- Geoff Beasley

Root, thanks for that explanation, good information for all who stumble over this thread. Of course this also explains why I didn't notice any kind of weirdness by switching from the Tracker tranny to the Toy becuase of the ratios. By the way the Toy Turbo (R151F) Has a 4th gear that's 1 - 1 and 5th is .83 - 1........My truck very rarely ever see's 5th in high range (downhill with a tailwind and me fasting, maybe). Kerry

Yota San et al.-The clip attaches to the two body mount towers at the front of the frame (look right in front of the headlights) and to the front of the tub/firewall where the stock fenders go on.

I will add another frame mount on each side where the front shocks will attach to the clip. It is pretty damn sturdy with just the four points, but the additional mounts will really beef it up.

Salt spray????? Not an issue out here. Mud???? Not my scene. I will be making simple inner fender for goey runs, but the rig is gonna get used on the con and the desert for slow speed crawlin so flinging stuff isnt all that big of an issue.

Looks good scwafish!!
But i think i agree with everyone else, there will be some muck in all over the motor in no time! Even going to the con all the time, there is tons of dirt and there are a few water crossings in there too! Take some pics after you have the front done up, ive been thinking about this idea for quite some time!

Originally posted by MIKE S
Well I am running a side kick 1.8 sport motor ,trans and t-case and then a GRS-2 it comes out to be 172-1 :smokin: It works great!I placed 6th in ARCA and Won Calrocks and I have never broke a sami case ...And I beat the shit out of it!!:eek:

Mike how did you put the 2 cases together?? I have the 16v, and would like to put the kick case and tranny in mine with my Sumo case!

Rude-Granted its gonna get dirty, but not enough to be a big deal. Plenty of rigs on the ARCA scene have no inner fenders and they seem to run at the end of the day. I'll keep you updated the final inner fender setup. It sure makes PLENTY of tire clearance. I generally clean and service my whole rig after every run anyways (yeah I'm anal, and I'm ok with it), now I'll have to buy that little pressure washer I've been wanting.

Well give me a hollar when you get that thing going, well head up to the con, or bassie in the snow!!

Originally posted by RudeZuk


Mike how did you put the 2 cases together?? I have the 16v, and would like to put the kick case and tranny in mine with my Sumo case!

Your thinking like me.... but I keep being told that you have to push the rearend back like 7 or so inches to make it fit.... plus there is the whole stress thing on that case.. makes me wanna go divorced toy with 4.7's..... so much to think about....:confused:

Originally posted by kerry1.6-toyota
Root, thanks for that explanation, good information for all who stumble over this thread. Of course this also explains why I didn't notice any kind of weirdness by switching from the Tracker tranny to the Toy becuase of the ratios. By the way the Toy Turbo (R151F) Has a 4th gear that's 1 - 1 and 5th is .83 - 1........My truck very rarely ever see's 5th in high range (downhill with a tailwind and me fasting, maybe). Kerry

That's right, high range is 1:1 in both boxes so you wouldn't notice anything different in high range.

It's been one of the real buggaboos with my Sidekick build-up - trying to get low enough gearing to run 35" tires. I had originally built a custom TracKick low range box that had the front output lopped off and was planning on putting that into a Sam t-case but decided not to because of strength and driveline angle concerns (centered rear diff on the D44 I have).

Now I have to get some 5.89 gears for the D44s that I have. I had originally geared for 3.73 but when I changed the driveline that changed the gearing required which meant that I needed to change the ARB carriers (D44s have a carrier break between 3.73 and 3.92) which meant I had to save more money...and on and on it goes you know? :)

r@m

Rude-snow or no snow...I'm there the second this thing is done!

Hey Rude and Scwa, let me know when you're going. I'd love to squeeze a trip with you into my schedule sometime! Depending on how much snow there is, Strawberry Creek can be another fun trail in the winter.