It seems that axles are only getting bigger. Why? Is it because driver skill is going down or is it the coolness factor. I have been running 44's for years now without breakage that would necessitate 60's. I have 35x16 boggers and a 350 under the hood and all I break is the occasional u-joint here and there but I don't go grab the first set of full width 60's to slap under my rig. Am I right? I am curious to hear both sides on this one. Do Dana 60's = no driving skill.:question:

Nope,
35's are becoming a thing of the past. Remember when you were running 31's or god forbid you went as far as 32's, and when the old jeep I-6 had alot of "tourqe", that all turned out to be a bunch of horse shit right!!

The 44 is pretty much border line for the weight most people put on top of them.

Bigger tires=Bigger axles

Do you like standing in line waiting for toyota diehards to change birfields, Thats how the 60 guys feel about us when that occasional U-Joint breaks

Times they are a change'n, you gotta change with'em
ericfilar@fatcity

Thanks for the input.. I also plan on bigger tires soon. I'm thinkin about 39" boggers or 38" tsx next. I guess i'll find out real quick how strong my u-joints really are.

I want the security that I will be doing more trail riding that trail repairing. I also want to be able to run 39"+ tires...

I ran Terminator yesterday and saw 4 yes 4 297-x u-joints bust on the first obstacle:eek: . I'm sorry, I'd rather keep on wheeling than change a u-joint every 20 min. or worry about it the whole time. :rolleyes: :flipoff2:

I have ran all of the above. I have ran cruiser axles, Toyota axles, 44's and 60's. With all the new technology coming out, the 44 will be plenty strong to run with 39" tires. You can get the CTM joints, and some Warn shafts, and call it a day. Of course ytou are into it the price of a 60, but you don't have the pig either, but then you don't have the 60 shaft size either. Run what you brung, and keep an eye out for a good deal on a 60. When yuo find it, you swoop on it, and slap that focker in.

Dimitri

I feel it depends on the vehicles spec's If your running a big ass v-8 and a manual transmission with bigger than 35" tires I definitly think 60's are necessary. If your running a stock 6 cyl. and an automatic with big ass tires you will probably be ok with some D44's or other 1/2 ton axles with Warn or moser shafts, with the occasional u-joint or shaft breakage.. Im running a 8.8 and D44 with 38.5's and a 6cyl./automatic combo and have had zero problems so far :D I'm planning on putting some moser or warn shafts with CTM joints in which should be good for my rig. I still dream of 60's one day though.

Also whats the point of swapping in 60's if your Jeep for example is still running a np-231 and factory tranny??? I would personally rather break a shaft or u-joint on the trail rather than exploding my t-case or tranny. In the end if your going to swap in 1-ton axle you better have plans to swap a atlas or other beastly t-case, driveshafts, and transmission as well. :skull:

One thing I don't like about 44's is the weak knuckles. When a 44 U-joint failes it can bindup and take out the upper and lower ball joints. This results in total sepration of the wheel from the truck and leaves you with a real problem to get off the trail.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=158555 =FUCT..............no, REALLY FUCT

That looks familer. I came close to doing that while leading a trail on the Canadian Jeep Jamboree. Dumbass- had to show the participants how to do drive this really technical uphill section.:rasta:I seperated the knuckle but not enough for the wheel to go as far as that picture.

it's a tire size and gearing thing, my 60's aren't hung yet, but my buddies are. When he had a 44 in front he broke the occasional shaft with 36's and his 351SVO, NV4500, atlas combo, when he put on 38's he was breaking several shafts every trail weekend...expensive, and no fun, BTW that was with good shafts too, warns (who wouldn't warranty them BTW) or mosers... I snap an axle or two a year with 35's, but got the go big on tires urge, so I'm now hanging 60's...

Originally posted by Chris Geiger
One thing I don't like about 44's is the weak knuckles. When a 44 U-joint failes it can bindup and take out the upper and lower ball joints. This results in total sepration of the wheel from the truck and leaves you with a real problem to get off the trail. it can happen with ball joint 60 fronts as well and looks just as ugly

Originally posted by Flatty
I have ran all of the above. I have ran cruiser axles, Toyota axles, 44's and 60's. With all the new technology coming out, the 44 will be plenty strong to run with 39" tires. You can get the CTM joints, and some Warn shafts, and call it a day.

Technology is well and good. I'll pick a 44 over a 60 when they come with all the stuff you said and a 300M R&P, high alloy carrier, high alloy knuckles, stronger ball joints, thicker DOM tubes, bigger bearings ect ect. The problem becomes that every time you strengthen the weekest thing you form another one. It seems to me that with axles the next week link in the list is always more expensive.

Hell, I could not get my Birfields to hold up with 33's, there is no way they would have held up to the Hell I am giving this D60 I have now!

I LOVE being able to back up and turn the tire!

Its all about money! Im running dual dana 44's on 37 boggs, If I had the money Id run all 1-ton. But I belive that a well built 44 can handle no more than 38's and a small v-8 if that. No question 60 is better but, there isnt a damn thing wrong with a 44.Fact is you cant beat a 60. :smokin:

do dana 44's =no nuts????:D

So since I've been running 37" SSR's on a front D30 with Warn 5 on 4.5" hubs - didn't think I'd ever go this far when I did that - for almost a year now (no breakage on the front axle), you're saying all of a sudden I won't be able to drive because I'm installing a D60 to run 38's or 39's?? I thought about running a front 44, but I figure I'm already at that strength - except the hubs - with the 30 which has Warn inner and outer shafts. Oh, the Detroit in the 30 does real good as long as you're going in a basically straight line - haven't had problems with that either....... yet. :D :flipoff2: :D

Originally posted by SLO-J
It seems that axles are only getting bigger. Why? Is it because driver skill is going down or is it the coolness factor. I have been running 44's for years now without breakage that would necessitate 60's. I have 35x16 boggers and a 350 under the hood and all I break is the occasional u-joint here and there but I don't go grab the first set of full width 60's to slap under my rig. Am I right? I am curious to hear both sides on this one. Do Dana 60's = no driving skill.:question:

Dude, you must not even come close to getting it on!:flipoff2: I'm on my 3rd inner axle now in 6 months. And I've been taking it easier lately. When I ran 33s, it was'nt axle probs with the Dana 44s for me. It was the ring and pinions. Little bit of wheel hop and they were GONE.

Originally posted by JONYJEEPER
do dana 44's =no nuts????:D


:flipoff2: but funny.

http://www.polygoats.rockcrawler.com/bad_ass_car_crushing_cj.jpg



I know this does no justice to how I use my jeep off-road, but dude, I get it on just fine. The car was screaming "huevos Grandes"

DAMN sloJ.........is that pic big enough??? ok let me have it......

for my first swap in the yj i tossed the stockers (they were breaking with 33ssrs) for 79bronco axles, went soa and slapped some 35x16 boggers on but kept the 4.0 ax15 and 231. thought it would be the shit. well i was snapping a d44 shaft/u jiont everytime, i am kinda hard on the gas. then i decided to swap in the warn chromollies and went to 37 boggers. i did not break the warns the 1 time i had it on the trail like this but i did fuck the tranny. so i decided i wanted to swap an auto in and said fuck it and swapped everything. i put in a 5.7/th350. then i decided since i was snapping d44 shafts regularly with the 6 and 35s i better go 1 ton. so in went chevy d60/14bolt and a 32 spline d300 t case. for now im keeping the 37s but who knows what in the future. i kinda like the thought that the 1 tons are pretty bulletproof with the 37s strapped on

its a circular arguement. we are wheeling more and more extreme. when i started wheeling, the object was to get where you were going.. camping, fishing, whatever..

now people are looking for the "extreme" obstacle... trying to conquer a more gnarly rock than they did last time... and this requires bigger bigger bigger stuff. tires, axles, suspensions, etc...

years ago, id hop in the (more or less) stock jeep, drive 80 minutes hit the trail and enjoy the day doing forest service roads, and the occasional mudhole or hillclimb, and drive home.

now, i get up 2 hours early, hook up the trailer, load the jeep on to the trailer, throw in all tools, spare parts, food, drink, etc, and haul down to the trail, ...............

Go Big or go Home!

I look at it this way: Why buy a truck with a 4 cylinder? You know if you do you will only want a bigger engin later. It always happends that way. If you invest the money it takes to make a 44 storng enough, then you could have had a 60 for the same money. There is only one question? The weight, the 60 is a pig, If your rig can handle the weight go 60 or get lost. One 60 done right=DONE 44 built=might need to build it again.:smokin:

Besides less fixin=more:beer:

Also has a lot to do with the kind of wheeling you do. Driver technique plays a part of course. If you're liberal in your use of the stupid pedal & take all the nastiest lines, you're gonna break more stuff, so yeah you have a point about the driver. But, the terrain also plays a part. Take my forte, mud. In general, the typical mud machine has gobs more HP than a comparable rock-crawler. But the weak links are in totally different places. Buddy of mine has right at 800HP in his Jeep, & has no qualms about using a 44 front with 38.5" Boggers. Why should he? Half the time, the front end is in the air when he takes off & when it comes down, there's no sudden "grab" like there would be on rocks. Another buddy has over 1,500HP (622" alcohol & NOS injected) in his mudder & runs a Dana 30 up front :eek: His frontend never really does touch down for the entire pass. But, both of these guys run 60 rears ;)

TEX

yup 60's are :rainbow: thats why i am getting them. :flipoff2:

Yea sure 60's are GREAT!!!!! Iloved mine, but it all comes down to money. I sold my rig, and now I plan on building a daily driver. I can collect parts all day long, and when I find a 60 for a good price I will swoop on it, but till then a 44 will sit up front. I think if your rig is light enough, a 44 will hold up. Oh yea also, you can run the v8 with an auto tranny, and it will hold. The auto will slip enough not to blow axle shafts. You can't run up against a wall, and hoppe the shaft holds, because it won't. As for everything else being weak, well you deal with it. Yea the 44 knuckle can seperate, but I saw a 60 knuckle CRACK off. Yes I am sure everyone knows what I am talking about in Welderboy's rig in the boix. Anyway., I am done babbling.

DImitri

In the imortal words of MASSEY....


6060606060606060606060606060606060606060606060


Nuf said.

All da beeyaches love the 60's...

:beer:

Originally posted by WideJ
All da beeyaches love the 60's...

:beer:

Thats why you have no bitches...................:flipoff2:

And that dana 30 front gets you lots of beeyatches huh? Recall Fri. Roughly 12am:flipoff2: :flipoff2: Then we talk about beeyatches....

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah........

So let me guess....? I can't drive my 44 rig where the 60 rigs can go?

I agree with Flatty, wheel what you brung. It all works, just a little different from folk to folk.

All you guys still running 44's and not breaking aren't wheelin. Come to Farmington NM w/ a 44 and you will wear your tools out changing axles. Ask Lance how hard Farmington is on axles. 60's all the way for the hard core 4 wheelers.

Damn..... I knew that was you! I'm surprised you even bothered to ask this. Anyhow I think it all depends on the driver anyhow. I know there are many folks on this list that can break a 60 just by looking at it. I'm also surprised piggy kept his 30 alive while attempting the box:eek: And yes your right, it does not attract the biatches while almost rolling in the middle of campus.:flipoff2:

Kevo

BTW slo-j,
That thing is way too clean. If I hadn't seen it in the box I never woulda thought it had been off pavement. Heck mine at least has dents from me hitting it with a hammer:laughing:

Originally posted by pure-adrenaline
All you guys still running 44's and not breaking aren't wheelin. Come to Farmington NM w/ a 44 and you will wear your tools out changing axles. Ask Lance how hard Farmington is on axles. 60's all the way for the hard core 4 wheelers.

This would be like saying you can't wheel with the spring under rigs when SOA is the way to go. I think the 44 can and will hold up if built right. That means ARB, auto, light foot, CTM joints, some Moser alloy shafdts, inmners and outers,... You know the drill. Of course, there is no substitute for the 60!!!! But for those of us who can't afford them, I say RUN WHAT YOU BRUNG!!!!

Dimitri

Originally posted by Flatty


This would be like saying you can't wheel with the spring under rigs when SOA is the way to go. I think the 44 can and will hold up if built right. That means ARB, auto, light foot, CTM joints, some Moser alloy shafdts, inmners and outers,... You know the drill. Of course, there is no substitute for the 60!!!! But for those of us who can't afford them, I say RUN WHAT YOU BRUNG!!!!

Dimitri

yeah but if you buy all this shiznit you could buy a 60. i just don't see how you can say if you can't afford a 60 then get all this stuff to keep your 44 alive??? the thing about the d44 is yes you can get alloy shafts and yes you can get ctm's but what about the hubs? i took out just as many hubs on my old d44 as i did 297's.

yea, so shut da fug up :flipoff:

Originally posted by high5


yeah but if you buy all this shiznit you could buy a 60. i just don't see how you can say if you can't afford a 60 then get all this stuff to keep your 44 alive??? the thing about the d44 is yes you can get alloy shafts and yes you can get ctm's but what about the hubs? i took out just as many hubs on my old d44 as i did 297's.

Slugs.

go 70s with tractor joints and forget about the u joints! bigger is better, BTW why dont any of you guys run Dana 70 fronts?

Originally posted by Flatty


This would be like saying you can't wheel with the spring under rigs when SOA is the way to go. I think the 44 can and will hold up if built right. That means ARB, auto, light foot, CTM joints, some Moser alloy shafdts, inmners and outers,... You know the drill. Of course, there is no substitute for the 60!!!! But for those of us who can't afford them, I say RUN WHAT YOU BRUNG!!!!

Dimitri your almost right on da money cept for one thing bro...... eventually you will have replaced enough shafts/ joints that you could of bought a 60.......... this is the point im at..... 2 long sides, 3 short sides, and a spindle just in the last 5 months..............and most of them happened when idleing in firstgear!................. now ctm might be a saving grace, i will be trying them.... but i think in the end id like to have a 60 joint up there.....


if your gonna run what ya brung.... and what ya brung is a 297... make damn sure you got spares

Originally posted by pure-adrenaline
All you guys still running 44's and not breaking aren't wheelin. Come to Farmington NM w/ a 44 and you will wear your tools out changing axles. Ask Lance how hard Farmington is on axles. 60's all the way for the hard core 4 wheelers.

And you can bring that 60-equipped rig to one of my competition mud bogs to get waxed by a bunch of guys running 44 or even Toy fronts - and we'll be the ones pokin' fun at you.............newbie :flipoff2:


TEX

I wheeled my D44/12B combo will they were dead then swapped in 1 ton axles. it was pointless to upgrade that combo for me. If you want to spend big $$$ to "beef" up a 44 go ahead...

Originally posted by pure-adrenaline
All you guys still running 44's and not breaking aren't wheelin. Come to Farmington NM w/ a 44 and you will wear your tools out changing axles. Ask Lance how hard Farmington is on axles. 60's all the way for the hard core 4 wheelers.

I beg to differ. Ian Liljablad runs the ARCA series w/ front and rear 44's and he does just fine. Think he placed 14th overall. It depends on a lot of things: driver ability and finesse,tire size,engine size. Too many factors to say that people who use 44's aint "gettin it" (God i hate that term). Bottom line, if you got 60's use em,but if all you got is AMC 20 two piece, well use em.

Originally posted by mossberg
go 70s with tractor joints and forget about the u joints! bigger is better, BTW why dont any of you guys run Dana 70 fronts?

I do! Its in the rear!:flipoff2:

Originally posted by high5


yeah but if you buy all this shiznit you could buy a 60. i just don't see how you can say if you can't afford a 60 then get all this stuff to keep your 44 alive??? the thing about the d44 is yes you can get alloy shafts and yes you can get ctm's but what about the hubs? i took out just as many hubs on my old d44 as i did 297's.

Mike was right on the money when he said slugs. As for the 60, yea you can buy one, but to set it up you are looking at some coin as well. lets say:
800 for purdhase
650 for ARB
300 for new joints
600 for alloy shafts
300 narrow one side
200 rotate housing
300 odds and ends seals and everything else
200 gears
------------
upwards of 3350, give or take a few hundred

I willg et the 44 in my next rig, do the auto, and call it a day, until I find a setup 60 for the right price. Oh and I ran the 60 and loved it, but I never broke a single front end, even when i wsa running a Toyota min front, 44 front, Cruiser front, ar 60 front

Dimitri

Originally posted by Shadow man


I do! Its in the rear!:flipoff2:

you have a front axle on the rear? rear steering? pics!!

What are slugs? Never heard of them before.

Hey TEX......You can keep your mud. Real climbing is done on the rocks!

800 for purdhase
650 for ARB
300 for new joints
600 for alloy shafts
300 narrow one side
200 rotate housing
300 odds and ends seals and everything else
200 gears


$300 for joints??? how much do you smoke while wheelin
d60 wheel joints are $25usd
$600 for alloy shafts...if you think a 44 will survive in your rig stick with the stock 60 shafts and never look back

you are terrible at dif math:rolleyes:

I ran a 44 in my Scout II and trashed the joints about every half hour. It was just a simple fact that my truck was way heavy and my motor much to big. I swapped in a 60 after I probably spent double the cost in 297's. The 60 is sweet. I don't even bring tools anymore. But it came with it's own problems. For one thing, THE WEIGHT. Unbelievable. The truck handles a lot differently. Then there are the brakes. Big ass brakes need a LOT of fluid and pressure.
I am now selling the 60 to build a Zuk Sidekick. I feel that a 44 might be kinda fun again as I have forgotten how to turn wrenches. Anyone want it?

I used to run 44's when it was a serious upgrade from the dana 30 in the early 90's loved them. I like everyone who wheels was always looking at others and always wanting to build it bigger and better. Around 95 I went to dana 60s front and rear and thought I was the shit because it was the new rage , it was when we also made eveything out of 1/2" steel plate to be bullet proof . I wheel about a year or so I noticed the extra weight and that I was not doing anybetter than my buddies still running the 44's. I eventually moved up to the top of the line stuff , air lockers r.r. front and rear 35 spline inner outer in front 40 spline in the rear and its true that I never broke anything not one joint. I eventually grew tired of the heavy axles trying to compete with the joenes so to speak and sold them. Today I am back to a dana 44 front and 9" rear and loving them parts for them have come miles from what use to be available. From my experience I like what the 44 has to offer me , and it is my belief that with weight reduction using ctm joints and warn shaft and an air locker that my 44 is as strong to me as my 60 was . I have yet to break anything , and I can build both of my 1/2 ton axles to the hilt for what 1 front 60 built cost me .I still run the same tires to 39" boggers:) :)